Superman: Doomsday - An Interview with Bruce Timm

Warners animation veteran Bruce Timm looks back at the making of "Superman: Doomsday," and the challenge of capturing the essence of the epic comic Death of Superman comic book storyline.

EdGross
12/3/2008

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17 Comments

	We commented on this already... movie sucked. It's animation, there are no chalenges nor barriers, especially when you have DC/WB's funding. Batman: Gotham Knight had great animated shorts so why did the "Death of Superman" (best comicbook story ever) have to be done by the same "veteran" that always does crappy blocky animation for kids. Shaman - 12/3/2008, 10:39 AM
	Hey Shaman, That "veteran" that your making fun of? He's the same guy that produced Batman: Gotham Knight. And if you're dismissing the Batman, Superman and Justice League series as "crappy blocky animation" then all I can really do is advise you to seek professional help and ask you to try not to speak. You're embarrassing everybody. BeauFromLEOG - 12/3/2008, 11:12 AM
	Gotta agree with Shaman here. Gotham Knight was great very in depth in tying some lose ends together, and in bringing back a sense of the old days of Batman: The Animated series with the new Dark Knight gritty hard feeling. Superman I feel has never been done any justice; the "blocky" I'd agree with. It was even present in the Batman cartoon series but it doesn't bother as much for some reason, maybe its the color schemes used and that Batman has a great story. They really could give the Big S some over the top animation and make it great. VenomIsOnMyRibs - 12/3/2008, 11:29 AM
	Superman: Doomsday wasn't AMAZING, but it was A MILLION TIMES BETTER THAN SUPERMAN RETURNS... Quagmire14 - 12/3/2008, 11:38 AM
	Doomsday was OK at best. Better than ANY incarnation of Superman "film" to date, but still not even remotely in par with the actual story or any other animated DC based series. JL and JLU are amazing cartoons. Good stories, great characters and just a multitude of possibilites. Good times. Gotham Knight, I saw the first couple shorts on toonhaven the other day, looks really well done, I will definitely have to finish watching those. IonParallax - 12/3/2008, 1:13 PM
	Hey Beau, I don't care what that veteran "produced" other than Superman because this is what this thread is about. Having produced "Batman: Gotham Knight" sure as hell doesn't excuse the shit he produced before hand. Yes all those series you mentionned were "crappy animation" compared to: -Spider-man -X-men the animated series -Batman: Gothiam Knight -The Batman -HBO Spawn series -Spectacular Spider-man -Ultimate Avengers movies -Ironman: armored adventures -Spider-man cgi series -Ironman animated movie -Doctor Strange animated movie -Fantastic Four anime series -Pretty much any "anime" ever made -Christ, even the Thundercats had better animation and they're like 20 years old! He had no excuses to make this movie as shitty as it is ESPCIALLY since he "produced" Batman: Gotham Knight!!! It just proves my point, there were no excuses. I'm not saying the script was bad, as it was better than the script for Superman Returns, but there was NO reason to not have made the "accurate" story line of the Death of Superman! It doesn't matter how many interviews about chalenges you pull out, THERE WERE NO EXCUSES!!! Shaman - 12/3/2008, 1:24 PM
	-SHAMAN- Totally agree with you bro, he really had a chance to make something "Great", and yea maybe it was the best Superman animated movie, but it could've been so much better. There is so much potential with that story, it's probably my favorite comic storyline of all time.....that and Kingdom Come!!! ;-D Talontd - 12/3/2008, 3:38 PM
	It's sad that when the BEST version of a superhero flick, is still countlessly flawed. You know said superhero has had it rough, even being the greatest and original, he gets screwed over more than ANY other character out there. Now, i'm not an uber-superman fan, actually I prefer GL, Batman, The Spectre and several other DC characters over him any day, but he has been bruised and beaten in the movie realm, and it's time for someone with the ability to bring him to light in the proper way, to the screen. If they can't do it right, stop doing it. They're raping, killing, and raping again, a great opportunity to do THE EASIEST superhero out there. He's [frick]ing Superman for gods' sake, how can they get this wrong EVERY SINGLE TIME?! It's a conspiracy I tell you. IonParallax - 12/3/2008, 7:06 PM
	I will grant you that Doomsday sucked, however saying that I can't talk about Bruce Timm in a forum below a bloody interview with BRUCE TIMM while at the same time producing a grocery list of your favorite cartoons is pretty much the acme of belligerence and irony if not outright stupidity. Opinions are like assholes. By your list it seems that you prefer a more traditional anime style. Great. But discounting anything that doesn't use an anime inspiration is narrow-minded at best and just outright willfully ignorant at worst. Whatever you may think of Timm's style, his contributions to the DC animated universe, superhero animation specifically and animated series in general are universally acclaimed. Your opinion in the matter is the exception rather than the norm. Most of the series you mention wouldn't even be around without Timm. It's like hating on Jack Kirby or Steve Ditko just because you can't get into their style. As for making something GREAT from the Doomsday storyline? You can't polish a turd. Superman fights a big Monster and dies. Wow-that's a great storyline. Any storyline in the Superman Animated Series kicks Death of Superman's ass three times and six times on Sunday. BeauFromLEOG - 12/3/2008, 11:01 PM
	I totally get your point Beau, your right, these series were acclaimed but not for it's style. They were acclaimed first and fore most because they were the main superhero series on tv! If you research carefully, not many "superhero" animated series actually "weren't" acclaimed. Granted a select few of them failed(like Silver Surfer) but the only reason for that was the actuall scripts. And that is also the biggest reason that Bruce Timm's work was acclaimed is because of the kick ass scripts he worked with. I loved the Justice League Unlimited series for the scripts and also because it is "the only" time i ever saw so many cool DC superheroes grouped together on TV...EVER!!! It doesn't give us much of a choice now does it? If the same series was done in two different animation styles, one being the actuall Bruce Timm style and the other being the same as the "crossfire" part of Batman: Gotham Knight, it would be no contest! The best example out right now is Batman: Brave and the Bold. MAN does that animation ever freakin SUCK BALLS!!! Compared to the series "The Batman", it's so much of a downgrade it's not funny! Why go "old school" when there is obviously no purpose to it? When i look at what CAN be done in our day and age like BOLT or THE INCREDIBLES, and i turn my tv on and all i see is my favorite superheroes in an old school crappy animation, no wonder i'm not a happy camper! I just can't accept any excuses when there are so many well animated series out there. The only two things i ranted about were Timm's crappy blocky animation and the storyline for Superman/Doomsday being a discrace. I grant you that Doomsday is a bit gratuitous BUT he represents THE DEATH of the INDESTRUCTIBLE without having to use any kryptonite no less! The FALL of the MIGHTY! That story line was the best ever made in the comics because it is something that NEEDED to be done! To show us all that nothing should be taken for granted! The actuall story line was amazing, it was as much the death of superman as it was the birth of Superboy, Steel, The Eradicator (although he didn't last long, he was the coolest) it even spawned PARALAX!!! This story deserved better. Not an "inspired by" script but the full story without any corners being cut! A good 3 hour movie animated in a style that would've actually complimented the characters. Looking at all the details of this movie, no one can actually know WHO they actually made the movie for. It wasn't for kids because of all the fighting and the "so called death" and it sure as hell wasn't for the fans of the actuall storyline. It's as if they made it for no reason at all. Well i always say, anything worth doing should be done right! And this story deserved the best but got the worst representation ever made. Shaman - 12/4/2008, 9:17 AM
	BOOOOOM! And the crowd goes WILD! The point is, regardless of what someones personal opinion on art-style is, Superman has been raped over and over and over again by almost everyone who's touched his filmed stories...I must reitterate what I said, if you're not going to do it right. Don't do it. It's not doing him justice JUST to make the movie, and not make it GREAT! It's an arbitrary waste of time, that only the smallest of percentage of "fans' will enjoy, namely the 6 - 11 yr old range who don't have any real grasp as to who Superman really is, what he deals with, where he comes from, or where he's headed. It's unfathomable to them (usually) how truly complex the Man of Steel is, and how great of a story he has been graced with over the last 70 YEARS! IonParallax - 12/4/2008, 2:48 PM
	You'r so right ION, Superman has been made everybody's bitch in the film industry time and time again. He's been more manhandled than Rose McGowan. I tell ya ION, you really got me there when you said "He's [frick]ing Superman for gods' sake, how can they get this wrong EVERY SINGLE TIME?!"... honestly my brain can't compute that one. Smoke's comin' outa my ears just trying to figure out a logical reason behind all this. Shaman - 12/4/2008, 3:17 PM
	And i can't believe i'm being called "stupid" for having an opinion rather than to follow the hurd of lemmings off a cliff! THAT is the very pinacle of IDIOCY! Oh everybody's acclaiming it, i'll do it too for the fear of being called an individual. But the true story behind the acclamation is that it was either "acclaim it or don't watch your favorite superheores on tv". Thank GOD they at least graced us with amazing scripts. And as for my list of favorites, i just didn't have all day to mention every single series that actually have better animation than Bruce Timm's series. Here's one for ya, i always hated "my little pony" even though it was better animation than what was granted my "favorite" superheroes. Do i have a grudge? DUUUHHH!!! But Timm/DC/WB brought it, not me. They're OBVIOUSLY capable of giving us GREAT animation like "The Batman" and "Batman: Gotham Knight", why shouldn't i be royaly pissed at their "give'em the shittiest product possible and they'll acclaim it just cause it's their favorite heroes" attitude!?!?!?!? Shaman - 12/5/2008, 7:53 AM
	i thought this movie was enjoyable but i agree that they should have been more faithful to the source material. as far as animation goes, the best ive seen so far is wolverine and the xmen..in terms of style and content, its an awsome show. that and justice league unlimited are probably better than any live action movies that will be made with these characters..obviously animation allows much more to be done visually..but even in terms of getting the characters spot on and following great comic storylines Rorschach01 - 12/7/2008, 12:18 PM
	Excellent point Roar! See, this animated movie was "THE answer" to the suits saying that a live action movie about superman's death could never be done on the big screen. And look at what they did with this golden opportunity. They shat a squirrel! And yes, Wolverine and the x-men is AWESOME!!! Shaman - 12/8/2008, 7:05 AM
	Wow.. there are a lot of strong feelings out there about Superman in general. I completely understand as I am a huge fan as well. Even before I was into the comic's I saw Christopher Reeve in Superman II and i was hooked. I really hope the suits who build the data on which properties are popular and with whom are following this thread. My personal opinion is I must agree with Shaman for the most part. They jacked up a perfect chance to do something great by doing something mediocre at best. I can't fathom it really.. It seems kind of difficult to screw up a superman movie with so much material to choose from. Now.. why I agree with Ion.. It's simply because they are making attempts.. when you are a fan you'll take what they give you to an extent.. I thought Doomsday was entertaining and being that we'd not seen anything like it in animation or on the screen I didn't want to return the DVD. I hope as we keep complaining the suits will finally figure out they don't know best and listen to the fanbase and stop thinking about the marketing tie in's and the money they can make of the other stuff.. make a great movie.. "if you build it they will come"! ScorpioEagle1 - 12/8/2008, 1:30 PM
	Shaman, you're a real idiot. Bruce Timm is the best thing that has happened to American animation in decades, particularly any type of comic book animated series and movies. Those shows you listed were, in all honesty, crap. You may fondly remember drivel like the 90s Spider-Man and X-Men shows, but those were sad knock offs of everything Timm and so many others were accomplishing on Batman the Animated series. He understood that a "blockiness" is necessary in animation because it produces smoother movement, and creates a better overall design. He picked up where Toth left off and built so much upon it (do you know who Toth is? Do some research). This new stuff from Marvel is just pandering to people like you, whose favorite comic stories are 90s events (you probably don't even like comics, just particular badass superheroes). Thank god top animators aren't catering to people like you, otherwise we'd be getting more things like Silver Surfer and Fantastic Four cartoons. Now, I will admit that Superman Doomsday wasn't anything special, but the source material was lame anyway. "DEATH of the INDESTRUCTIBLE" was an uninspired cash-in during the comic industry's most shameful years. I'll even say Gotham Knights wasn't particularly great, but with Timm and others' work on Batman TAS, Superman, Batman Beyond, and all of JLU, he's hardly some overrated "veteran." Sure it's your opinion, but maybe you should grow up before spewing your crap in public forums. Haddock - 7/3/2009, 6:34 PM

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