ComicBookMovie.com Start A Fansite!
Home : News : Videos : Pictures : Polls : Contact : Editor's Tools
You are not currently logged in. Login

The Villain For Spider-Man 4 Is the Lizard..And the Lizard Only?

According to a "reliable source" it seems the Lizard may not just be the villain in Spider-Man 4, but he'll be the only villain present in the sequel.
While reviewing comic book-related news, I came across an article on Latinoreview.com involving the most current and highly talked about comic book sequel..."Spider-Man 4."

It has been in discussion for weeks as to who the villain or villains would be in the sequel. With the recent update of Dylan Barker returning for the role of Dr. Curt Connors, everyone speculated that this means The Lizard would finally get some screen time.

The site goes a bit further by stating not only will the villain be the Lizard, but if the reliable source is correct, he'll be the only one to appear in the film.

"Jim here. In what must be exclusives week at MarketSaw, we get a quick update on SPIDER-MAN 4 which of course is getting lensed in stereoscopic 3D.

We all pretty much knew that either The Lizard and/or Carnage would be in this movie and now we have word that it will be The Lizard ONLY. No multiple villains. Again, strong source here. Of course, things could change - but it is highly doubtful.

I couldn't be happier! SPIDER-MAN 3 suffered from too many story lines in my mind and with only one villain, Sam Raimi can focus on the character development and really build Dr. Curt Connors / The Lizard the way it should be. If there are too many bad guys you lose the connection - it is a good thing to almost feel bad for them when they lose (or win as the case may be). It is very hard to develop two villains within the same movie and establish that honest mind meld with them."



Whispers68: Do not shoot the messenger, I'm only reporting comic book related news so if this turns out to be just another movie rumor that swirls around during casting, put it off as such. But if this is true, I think Raimi would be on the correct path of having only one main villain.
17 Yes
5 No
Whispers68
10/27/2009
Worst Previews

DISCLAIMER: This posting was submitted by a user of the site not from Comic Book Movie editorial staff. All users have acknowledged and agreed that the submission of their content is in compliance with our Terms of Use. For removal of copyrighted material, please contact us HERE.

157 Comments

cool. I like the lizard storyline. spidey 4 needs to get back to what made the first two good (although I would have preferred if half of NYC didn't find out about spidey's identity by part two). I probably still wont see this in theaters, but things are looking good.

2011: A Geek Odyssey
supermarioworldE - 10/27/2009, 9:30 PM
Too few villains isn't good either. Having to go through an origin story every single movie is going to get tiresome. They should be smarter about this and stagger the villains. Have one as a direct antagonist and set up the other for a later antagonist while making sure the secondary still seems relevant to the story.

Yeah he's had Dr. Kurt Connors in the last few Spiderman movies but unless you're one of us he is an extremely forgettable character. Raimi must have gotten distracted by the last Spiderman.
Betty - 10/27/2009, 10:50 PM
the lizard is by far one of my favorite villains. I just hope the horror angle is played up more so that it doesn't feel to similar to doc ock
thwhtGuardian - 10/27/2009, 10:53 PM
@Betty

I can definitely understand your point with how you explained it. Having two villains, one where the primary villain receives substantial and a well put together story, whereas incorporating the secondary villain as a sense of backing up with a story of his own that still meshes with the entire movie. That can work if he truly learned from the horrible incorporation of the three villains in part three. If the writers did learn from the tragedy and want to improve by this time perfecting multiple villains, then having two can work well.

As for The Lizard, the rumor has been swirling for so long, something tells me that Raimi may give the "fans" what they want. That's my opinion but then again, since everyone is expecting that particular character, he may pull a fast one and leave him out entirely.
Whispers68 - 10/27/2009, 11:14 PM
He should be in it. Let's also hope he tones down the preachy attitude of Aunt May. She was insufferable in the 3rd one.

I would have liked it if they worked JJJ paying to create Scorpion to "out hero" Spider-Man in capturing the Lizard. Like proving a point that the city doesn't need the wall crawler because Scorpion is much better type of deal. Then have Spidey realize who Lizard is and tries to take him down safely while trying to also defend Lizard against Scorpion. Then Lizard is saved/cured and Scorpion is humiliated and goes his usual mental route, snaps and go nuts on everyone etc. and in the final scenes he goes looking for Dr.Conners in his office only to have a final show down with Spider-Man and as he runs to fight another day we see that during the fight, the small sample of symbiote Conners kept had latched onto Scorpion, setting up for a proper and current Venom for Spider-Man 5.

That'd be an entertaining use of Lizard. Also, bring back his wise-cracking and maybe we can avoid those stupid "Donnerisms" that plagued all Spidey films. That is, not finding a reason to whip off his mask every 10 minutes for fear of - as L.S.Donner puts it - "The audience will lose the connection that it's Toby under the mask." 'Cause we're [frick]ing retarded or something according to her.
WeaponX - 10/27/2009, 11:15 PM
i feel that raimi could really show spidey's conflict in this movie by having also having a secondary villain.
raimi has already set up the character of connors except for how he lost his arm. it would be great if after he becomes the lizard, jameson hires a hunter to take him down.
on one end is the lizard, a mr. hyde of sorts who wants to take out all mammals.
in the second corner is kraven, a man seeking the thrill of the hunt and the challenge of a true predator.
and then there is spider-man, who needs to stop the lizard but wants to help his friend/teacher.

spider-man 2 left us all gawking and i think raimi needs to amp up his game on this one.
but......
not in the way he did in spider-man 3.
Wadey09 - 10/27/2009, 11:19 PM
@weaponX

"That is, not finding a reason to whip off his mask every 10 minutes for fear of - as L.S.Donner puts it - "The audience will lose the connection that it's Toby under the mask." 'Cause we're [frick]ing retarded or something according to her."

apparently we are because when it comes to action films, to studios, the formula doesn't work unless there's an overwhelming amount of emotional attachment of some sort or a love story to adhere to the female viewers.
Whispers68 - 10/28/2009, 12:01 AM
I like the idea of Kraven and Lizard like Wadey said.

Kraven is hired to hunt the beast for sport; Spidey knows the Lizard is Connors and is trying to save him and reverse his condition while Kraven is trying to mount his head on a wall and Spidey is stuck between the two... good tension there.

And another thing:

Has anyone noticed that we only get sympathetic villains in the Spidey movies? Sandman; I can see that he's been a good guy in comics before. Osbourne; yeah maybe a little sympathy for the devil there, sure. But even Ock and Venom were made sympathetic. Ock? Really?

Lizard is like Sandman; he should be sympathetic so they will do this one right. I've wanted Lizard in there for a long time so I am happy about this, but in Spidey 5 can the bad guy have no redeeming qualities please? Just give us someone we love to hate.
nerosday - 10/28/2009, 12:16 AM
Yeah! Some no holds barred kick-assery!
Betty - 10/28/2009, 12:24 AM
@nerosay

It relates back to my theory about most Hollywood "action" films. In order for the formula to be projected for a wider audience, I genuinely feel the writers/director or simply the entire development team believe the character must appeal to the sentimental side of women mainly. They already know men will see the movie but in order for others to feel attracted to the film, it must possess a sympathetic ordeal in one way or another.

If I want romance, lifetime is readily available at home...I don't need to see it in everyone of my action films. It's a lame and tiring approach. It works at times but other times it's just the wrong direction.
Whispers68 - 10/28/2009, 12:25 AM
@ Whisper lol... Spidey 1-3 where sentimental enough just in terms of Peter alone. Jeez, has anyone ever counted how many times Tobey cried in those things, and that also explains the musical numbers and dancing in the last two... I hope.
nerosday - 10/28/2009, 12:38 AM
What about T2? The villain in that movie had no redeeming qualities, and the film wound up making 500 mil
supermarioworldE - 10/28/2009, 12:40 AM
Mario: don't forget T2 got the female audience through Sarah Connor's kick ass girl power and it had a kid in it. Even if it was wormy rat faced little Edward Furlong... I never like that guy for some reason, don't know what it is about him.
nerosday - 10/28/2009, 1:00 AM
@nero

very true. These kid actors all seem to grow up into assholes. I miss Jonathan Brandis
supermarioworldE - 10/28/2009, 1:23 AM
@supermario

I mentioned most movies or perhaps I should've hinted at a better term..."some." I didn't use "all" because I understand there are still a good amount of action films where the angle of sentiment isn't protrayed heavily or at all. In other words, it's just an action film but even in T2, the female lead possessed the female empowerment angle...the take no nonsense from anyone and defends herself in the face of adversity in a midst of men. That in itself could draw a wider audience but at the end of the day, there are action films where the angle is never taken. Just as there are films where the angle is used repeatedly
Whispers68 - 10/28/2009, 1:24 AM
@Whispers68 - I get what you're saying, I wasn't really going in that direction but you bring up a good point. Batman is arguably a perfect example of just shoving it in there solely for the demographic and hurting the flow of the overall story.
What I find insulting about this mask crap is L.S.Donner's attitude that if Toby is wearing the Spider-Man mask for more than a few minutes we'll forget it's Toby - we lose that equation some how. If he pulls on the mask and swings around and does battle at some point we'll all turn to one another and ask "Who the [frick] is wearing that mask?" so it has to be blown off or destroyed so we can all see Toby is wearing the mask. Which is bullshit. The assumption that we have A.D.D or that we pay to sit in theaters with our eyes closed is ridiculous. It's as if she thinks everyone is as [frick]ed in the head as she is. It's arrogant and ignorant on her part. If someone with balls said "Shut up you dumb bitch, you're clearly medicated - we don't need to discard the mask if Toby is constantly talking trash throughout the battle just like in the comics. Yeah the comics, y'know?, those things you're mildly aware of, ya [foo foo]." We would have unspoiled Spider-Man moments on screen. It's the same reason Eric Foreman kept poking his [frick]ing face through the Venom suit. I think it's during one of the audio commentaries on the first Spider-Man that she reveals her meddling as if it's a stroke of sheer genius.
I found the same "Donnerisms" in XO:Wolverine. He popped his claws nearly every 20 minutes as if without popping the claws we'll forget it's Wolverine. She's such a douche. They need to curb that kind of shit cause it takes away from the flow and feel of the moment in the film.
But bouncing back to jamming in the romance, if I was a woman, I'd be insulted with that too. It takes away from a woman's intelligence and forces a mind-set on them that they are incapable of showing interest in any movie that doesn't break out in a date at some point. Really, way to stick people in a box Hollywood.

WeaponX - 10/28/2009, 4:02 AM
Good find Whispers :)

Im happy...hopefully Raimi will give us another Evid dead type origin...like the hospital scene in Spiderman 2 :)
teabag - 10/28/2009, 6:05 AM
@ teabag
yeah....
like when lizard first transforms and a student checks up on him.
dead kid on campus.
Wadey09 - 10/28/2009, 7:18 AM
We know its the LIZARD!!! ; D

And about [frick]ing time!!


LEEE777 - 10/28/2009, 7:27 AM
LEEE777 - 10/28/2009, 7:29 AM
Theres another one!!! ; D
LEEE777 - 10/28/2009, 7:29 AM
LEEE@ stop luffin :D
teabag - 10/28/2009, 7:31 AM
Sweet!!! One villain and it's the Lizard. If this is true, then Spdey 4 is exactly what it should be. Every movie should have been like this. They should introduce or set up a different vilain for the next movie at the end of every movie.
Axl - 10/28/2009, 7:33 AM
This would be good news! I blame Batman Returns for inflicting the idea of two villains in one movie on us. That may work with some weaker villains who really can't carry a story by themselves, but is terrible with the better villains. The Lizard certainly is a strong enough character to build a really interesting story around that he could carry a film by himself. He's also another of my all-time favorite Spidey foes. I hope and pray that Raimi has learned from the numerous mistakes of the last film and will get this franchise back on track.

And WeaponX: your last post is absolute brilliance. I couldn't agree more, and couldn't have said it any better. Standing O!
comicb00kguy - 10/28/2009, 7:37 AM
This will be good if true! I would still prefer to have Kraven in it also, but I'd be ok with just the Lizard too.

Sidenote - Heath Ledger's Joker had NO redeeming qualities...and neither would Carnage, should he ever make it to a film!
Bamf7 - 10/28/2009, 7:41 AM
oh man not only the lizard. have kraven too. use the lizard storyline from the spiderman 3 videogame. or have carnage using the ultimate storyline
Denn1s - 10/28/2009, 7:41 AM
Great find Whispers68!

However, this sounds more like general speculation on the sites part than anything actually confirmed...I cant imagine that Carnage was ever considered especially as Raimi doesnt reallyknow anything about the character and was pretty much forced into including the other symbiote, Venom in Spider-Man 3!

I think that the movie could effectively feature just The Lizard as the sole villain but Im still not convinced how interesting that it would be - at least if my other least favourite Spider-Man villain, Kraven was included it might add a bit more to the movie (though if things end up as messy as 3 did Id rather just one or the other if it has to be either of them)

I would prefer to see Scorpion in the next movie with Lizard as a minor villain perhaps - the PI MacGargan could be trying to find out who Spider-Man really for JJJ which eventually results in him becoming Scorpion and all whilst this is happenning we could have Spidey vs. Lizard!

Something like that is what Id sort of prefer to see but by the time 2011 roles around Ill be glad just to have a Spider-Man movie! :)
joshw24 - 10/28/2009, 7:44 AM
Damn you @ LUFFY!!! ; D
LEEE777 - 10/28/2009, 7:52 AM
And LIZARD all the away!!!!

Only A TRUE SPIDEY fan would want LIZARD in the next SPIDEY movie, coz its a long time coming and has been building up to it with the fans!!!
LEEE777 - 10/28/2009, 7:54 AM
LEE: What exactly do you have to do to be a TRUE Spider-Man fan? That is a really stupid thing to say especially from someone who isnt up to date with the comic books! I guess you're not a TRUE Captain America fan seeing as you havent even read Reborn!
joshw24 - 10/28/2009, 8:10 AM
I sure hope that this is true cause I've wanted to see the Lizard ever since they introduced Connors in Spider-Man 2.
Bandrews1 - 10/28/2009, 8:15 AM
WTF you on about @ JOSH @???? Ive BOUGHT it, i hav'nt read it yet becoz im behind on some of my titles, i like reading my comic book stories in order! I read alot more than just MARVEL you know, got more to read. Whats your point lol???

Anyways CARNAGE should never be in a SPIDEY movie!!!

He is for VENOM!!!







LEEE777 - 10/28/2009, 8:28 AM
LEE: Whats your point, lol?
joshw24 - 10/28/2009, 8:29 AM
good! the first 2 only had one villain and they were fantastic. the third had 3 villains and sucked because you can't dedicate enough time to everyone.

plus raimi has been quoted as saying he wanted to get back to basics with this one, so maybe one villain is part of that thinking?

CorndogBurglar - 10/28/2009, 8:38 AM
Lets agree we POINTED the wrong way!! : D
LEEE777 - 10/28/2009, 8:42 AM
They should set the next villian up as we see how he came to be, somewhere in the middle of the movie, then we don't see him until the end when all things are wrapped up with the Lizard and everything is all happy, then we see the villian come out of the shadows at the very end. So in the middle he's born and we don't see him until the very end. That's the best way to incorporate the 2nd villian. That way you can start off with the next film without having to show him becoming that villian. That's a lot of time lost.
Timerider84 - 10/28/2009, 8:45 AM
Im definaltly an old school spidey fan so Lizard all the way...NO 2 CARNAGE....i agree with LEEE that carnage should be in a Venom movie :)
teabag - 10/28/2009, 8:45 AM
TEA @ Hell yeah!!!! :)
LEEE777 - 10/28/2009, 8:50 AM
If this were true, i'd by dissapointed. I'm all up for a single villain but The Lizard alone, sucks balls. Kraven is the only thing that could have made The Lizard interesting on the big screen. Without Kraven, The Lizard will be yucky.
Shaman - 10/28/2009, 9:03 AM
It's great that they're going with just one villain. There is no need for 2 or 3 villains, all it really does is create a mess of a movie.
And Carnage would be a terrible villain for a movie... not the comics, but for a movie... terrible villain.
hescian - 10/28/2009, 9:05 AM
Shaman@ the more i think of it the more i disagree...i think the Lizard will make a great singular character, in fact imo Lizard will be able to carry the tension more than having Kraven in the mix.

I still hope Kraven pops up as a villain in 5 or 6 tho :)
teabag - 10/28/2009, 9:06 AM
I'm fine with this, the 2 villian formula is getting a little stale.
ComicChic - 10/28/2009, 9:11 AM
The opening scene of Spidey 4 should be him responding to a police call about the RHINO. RHINO is way cool, would be great to have him make an appearance, and start the movie off with a bang; he's not enough to be a main villain.

Move onward into the Lizard.

Agreed on the "Old School" Spidey villains.
SkunkApe1 - 10/28/2009, 9:23 AM
I actually find that to be a little worrisome.

Sure the multiple villain theme has been done to death, but for characters like Spider-Man or Batman who have a crap load of villains, it's really the best way to get all their villains on screen without having to wait decades and decades.

Plus, I thought we had all come to terms with the idea that Kraven The Hunter would be a wonderful choice for a second villain and would compliment the story really well! They could even work Kraven's Last Hunt into the story! How amazing would that be?!?!
MovieTheaterLad - 10/28/2009, 9:24 AM
Love that skin tight shirt, ComicChic ;)

Teabag- I dissagree. It will be like watching Lake Placid but Bill Pullman will be webslingin' about. Lizard has no depth other than the fact that he is Doc Conners. Basically, he'll be a Jekyl & Hyde rampaging beast... yyyyaaaaaawwwwwwnnnn. That would make Spider-Man 4 a "monster movie" and those are way "staler" than multiple villain superhero movies IMHO.
Shaman - 10/28/2009, 9:27 AM
Thank God! I agree that Spiderman 3's problem was there was too much story and not enough glue. The Lizard should be the only villain, he is strong and fast and a match for Spidey. Add too many other villains and we start questioning how Spidey can survive. Big villains should always be a single nemesis like Green Goblin in the first and Doc Ock in the second. When they make a Spidey movie with Venom, he should be the only villain. Venom would be easy too, just use the same special effects for that black thing in the third film and follow the comics.
Jimdlux - 10/28/2009, 9:29 AM
I think Nolan had planned to have Joker in the next Batman as well. Can you imagine getting to see Ledger's Joker a second time?

If Lizard is in this one we are going to have to see another origin story. When you read comics is there an origin story every single issue? No, 'cause that's redundant and lame. They need to rethink the Spidey-formula.

Joker was introduced like sleight of hand. He just walked on with no intro. Not that Joker needs an introduction but I wonder if Nolan was saving Joker's origin for the next Bat-flick and if so, I wonder what his take would've been. At least he would have been reversing the approach of origin first, story second.
Betty - 10/28/2009, 9:30 AM
I don't think the Venom storyline is finished. The actual black organism could've survived the blast and found a new host, plus Carnage comes from Venom.

I think they should bring Venom back, with a new host, also have Lizard, and have the last few minutes with a cliff hanger leading into the next movie with Carnage.
MIDAS - 10/28/2009, 9:38 AM
I know it sounds like a cluster [frick], but it could work. Going off of what SkunkApe1 and Shaman said up there. Have Rhino, Lizard, Kraven. Hear me out! Both Rhino and Lizard are like "Big Game".

Start with Rhino. Spidey maybe has trouble with Rhino. Intro Kraven. Spidey & Rhino fight again. Kraven helps take out Rhino. Peter & Dr. Connors have screen time. Connors turns himself into Lizard. Spidey knows. Kraven hunts. They all fight. Kraven buries Spidey's ass in the ground, alive. While down there Lizard kills Kraven and escapes for the next movie. Done. Give me money.
Betty - 10/28/2009, 9:39 AM
Shaman@ It all depends what aproach they go with the Lizard..are they gonna go with the mindless beast or the conflicted beast that shares connors emotions but still wishes solace and an end to warm bloods....if Raimi gets back to formula Lizard could be everything people wanted Venom to be...adding Kraven would waste plot tension and action imo.

Saying that it all depends on the aproach, at the moment im happy but once ive seen it i might of wished for Kraven....but who knows for sure :)


Betty@ Origin stories are fine if they are done right and Nolan did Bats in Begins and Two-Face in TDK so he's as guilty as the rest of them :)
teabag - 10/28/2009, 9:41 AM
If they do abroad storyline based arround Dr Conners, then we'll get to see his inner circle of friends (dr Michael Morbius, Dr Miles Warren(Jackal), Dr. Clifton Shallot(Vulture), We already know about Dr Octavius, and maybe he had a friendship with Dr Norman Osborn). All this should be revealed. Maybe have Conners get a phone call from Osborn telling him location of Doc Oc. But that could be cliffhanger ending. Maybe Osborn funds the recovery of Doc Oc. I'm not saying have all these villians in the movie but introduce their human characters. Just an introduction of a 'sinister' behind the scenes plot that leads into a 5 and a final Sinister 6 Movie. The 5th movie will introduce a 5th and 6th villians leading up to the 6th.
GOTHAMknights2012 - 10/28/2009, 9:41 AM
@Betty - That is true. I wonder....maybe they should have the Lizard rampaging most of the movie, and reveal who he is toward the end. Us geeks know who he is, obviously, but the average movie watcher wouldn't know. Especially since the Lizard has two arms and Doc Connors only has one. You might be on to something!
Bamf7 - 10/28/2009, 9:42 AM
Betty- Great synopsis and it's true, origin concepts do get kinda lame but only to us comic fans who already know the origin of the villains. They could use different ways about discovering the villains origin but it must be included to an extent. In TDK, they did try to discover it but nothing could be found. Now if they start doing that for every villain, well it's gonna get old and stale as shit.
Shaman - 10/28/2009, 9:43 AM
It's great that Lizard is going to be the next villain, but I world prefer Kraven to be in it as well. Especially considering that Dr Connors isn't really a bad guy.
BmanHall - 10/28/2009, 9:45 AM
BETTY @ Good stuff!! ; )
LEEE777 - 10/28/2009, 9:46 AM
BMAN @ KRAVEN still might be!!
LEEE777 - 10/28/2009, 9:46 AM
Teabag- Oh Lizard will definitely need a "brain" of sorts if they ever want this film to succeed after the last suck fest. I'm just saying it would be lacking in comparisson with the two first ones no matter which angle they take Lizard. You need human interest and Kraven is the only one that can bring it to a Lizard concept.
Shaman - 10/28/2009, 9:49 AM
Bamf7: I think they did something like that with Lizard in the animated series they did as a follow up to Spider-Man (which was awesome by the way)

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

...and that worked out pretty well if I remember rightly! Still if they are going to go with Lizard I think Peter would need to know its Connors as it would make the relationship between Spidey and The Lizard more personal and probably result in some great scenes because of that!

Still, I wonder what kind of Lizard they'll go for - Im not sure that the talking Lizard would work...it could end up looking pretty lame having a talking lizard in a lab coat unfortunately and a feral Lizard who just howls or whatever will make for some boring fight scenes - Spider-Man had at least some bnter when fighting Doc Ock and the rest!
joshw24 - 10/28/2009, 9:52 AM
LIZARD don't need to talk????

HULK barely talks lol!?
LEEE777 - 10/28/2009, 9:54 AM
Glad the Lizard is in it but there needs to be two villains, Lizard cant carry a movie on his own, Kraven would be perfect. Two Villains.
Ryden - 10/28/2009, 9:55 AM
Didn't Raimi already state this movie will lead to a Venom movie? How is that if this is Lizard only?
gtrman - 10/28/2009, 9:55 AM
It's obvious that Bruce Campbell is Private Investigator Mac Gagnon (Scorpion) out to find out the true identity of Spiderman by following Parker. That's one storyline thats been constant throughout all 3 movies Jamesons mission in life to find out who spiderman and give the world the biggest story ever. And Bruce Campbell has also been a constant in all 3 movies. It would be just like Jameson, who's paper is now in trouble because of the humiliation caused by the retraction it had to do about Spiderman, to hire Mac and pay for his transformation into the scorpion. And then when the experiment goes wrong hesets out to kill jameson and Spiderman has to save him. Oh the irony in that. Scorpions would be a good intro storyline into this movie.
GOTHAMknights2012 - 10/28/2009, 10:00 AM
teabag--true true and at least he knew enough to do one per movie. Begins was Batman's party and he didn't have to give Rhas an origin, he just existed.

Harvey was pretty easy to do but it still seemed a little added on to me.
Betty - 10/28/2009, 10:04 AM
GOTHAMknights2012-- How is this obvious?
Betty - 10/28/2009, 10:05 AM
It's obvious that Bruce Campbell is Private Investigator Mac Gagnon (Scorpion) out to find out the true identity of Spiderman by following Parker. That's one storyline thats been constant throughout all 3 movies Jamesons mission in life to find out who spiderman and give the world the biggest story ever. And Bruce Campbell has also been a constant in all 3 movies. It would be just like Jameson, who's paper is now in trouble because of the humiliation caused by the retraction it had to do about Spiderman, to hire Mac and pay for his transformation into the scorpion. And then when the experiment goes wrong hesets out to kill jameson and Spiderman has to save him. Oh the irony in that. Scorpions would be a good intro storyline into this movie.
GOTHAMknights2012 - 10/28/2009, 10:05 AM
Dang, no carnage. I was really looking foward to seeing him in the movie. All is okay though, Lizard is one of the coolest spidey villians.
wyatt1234 - 10/28/2009, 10:11 AM
LEE: Lizard has talked for the majority of his comic book appearences! Whats that got to do with Hulk?!?

94357-171600-lizard_super

303785-167822-lizard_super

660190-li3
joshw24 - 10/28/2009, 10:11 AM
@Betty

It's obvious by Sam Raimi saying Bruce Campbell will have a big part in this movie. He's taken on 3 different disguises in the last 3movies and has always been there where Peter Parker will be, Coinsidence??? Now there only 2 characters he could be, Chamelion who is a master of disguises or Mac Gagnon who is a Private Investigator who also has to use disguises to go under cover.
GOTHAMknights2012 - 10/28/2009, 10:11 AM
all I ever wanted in a spider-man film was the sinister 6
BossWalsh - 10/28/2009, 10:11 AM
Josh- Well let's see:

-Talking lizard in a lab coat= LAME
-Jekyl & Hyde rampaging beast= LAME
-Lizard alone= LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME

There's not that many ways to look at it. Lizard cannot hold a movie on it's own.

LEEE- Hulk concept is lame. TIH proved it with being an even better film than Ang Lee's and still not getting as much money. And Ang's film IS NOT to blame. The critics were practically unanimous in saying that it was way better. That alone normally generates sales but if the concept is stale like Hulks, an oscar won't help it. Ang's film's success was solely on account of nostalgia of the 70ies show PERIOD. Hulk alone will never make big money and if Lizard is the ONLY villain, SM4 will flop.
Shaman - 10/28/2009, 10:13 AM
All 6 have to be in their own movies first and that's why it's a good lead in to a 6th movie.
GOTHAMknights2012 - 10/28/2009, 10:13 AM
Shaman: I agree with you 110%!!! I've never wanted to see Lizard in the next Spider-Man movie (Id prefer Electro or Scorpion) and I think that even with Kraven its still not going to work that well. Without Kraven though it may end up being a complete disaster!
joshw24 - 10/28/2009, 10:21 AM
Even if they don't actually make Bruce Campbell turn into the Scorpion in this movie, I'll bet money his character is introduced as Mac. It'll show a dealing with Jameson at some point. And maybe his experimental transformation at the end.
GOTHAMknights2012 - 10/28/2009, 10:23 AM
@Whispers

Very true. I didn't think of it like that
supermarioworldE - 10/28/2009, 10:23 AM
In the 1st movie, if I can remember correctly at the wresling match, someone said "Hey Mac". And then later Bruce Campbell says "I need to follow this kid." I could be mistaken have to go back and look.
GOTHAMknights2012 - 10/28/2009, 10:25 AM
Josh- ELECTRO, now THERE'S a solo kick ass villain!!! And using GOTHAMknights2012's synopsis, Scorpion would have worked very well too. Way better than Lizard ever could as a stand alone villain. I've never been much for Lizard EVEN IF Kraven was on board. It just seemed like the most logical step after building up Connors through 3 films. I just want the [frick]er outa the way. Kraven would have been the little spice to add to the Lizard stew which would have single handedly made it eatable LOL :P
Shaman - 10/28/2009, 10:26 AM
Sorry Whispers68.. I'm not ganging up on you.. But.. SPIDER-MAN 3 didn't suffer from too many story lines or too many bad guys.. It suffered from horrible writing and the manner to which the story was told.. The last two Batman movies had 2 villians (Dark Knight 3 villians) and the movie was very successful and very good. The Lizard character/story isn't good enough by itself for a 2hr movie.. And if it does happen to go that route then WATCH OUT for more dancing Peter Parker.. IMHO if Spidey 4 has the Lizard as the villian then none other than KINGPIN should be in the movie as well.. Put some guy in a fat-suit and let em do his KINGPIN-ish thing..
SUPASEGO - 10/28/2009, 10:27 AM
carnage sucks.
fivebees - 10/28/2009, 10:30 AM
Don't forget about the other villain that's been in the rest of the movies, Baraka.

Er, sorry. I guess that's Kirsten Dunst.

Who knew her father was a crocodile?
ElBicho - 10/28/2009, 10:34 AM
Shaman: I cant actually see them choosing to use The Lizard in Spider-Man 4 anyway. Connors' appearences havent had anything to do with The Lizard so far so I really hope that it isnt the next logical step! Electro and Scorpion are two classic villains who are more than capable of each carrying their own movie!
joshw24 - 10/28/2009, 10:36 AM
See when i was a kid i loved every issue that envolved the Lizard frikin loved em...hated ones with Electro tho cus all he ever did was rob something as his big plan...where as Lizard was more of a match for spidey but was more ferile than the usual vilains.

:P
teabag - 10/28/2009, 10:45 AM
Josh- Well to me, it would be really annoying to keep Conners around for two more films when we all know who he's supposed to be. It would have been the same as having Eddie Brock working opposite Peter at the Bugle throughout all three films without ever seeing Venom! I just really want him out of the way and he's too important to deal with in a simple opening scene like Rhyno or Shocker. So either way, unless Kraven's in it along side Lizard, i don't think i'm in for any improvement on SM3.

Teabag- Oh as a child, i can totally relate but at my age and knowing how it logically pans out at the box office, Lizard alone is the last scenario they should use. Of course Lizard is a match for Spidey's strength and agility but that doesn't make a story in itself.
Shaman - 10/28/2009, 10:52 AM
IDK, ill believe this whole story when its confirmed i swear if they make it with lizard and carnage and someone else i will [frick]ing scream
UltimateSpidey - 10/28/2009, 10:55 AM
HONESTLLY, IF YOU DON'T HAVE MULTIPLE VILLAINS IS A GOOD THING..MAKE YOUR MULTIPLE VILLAINS EXTRA THINGS IN THE MOVIE, THE LIZARD CAN CONTROL OTHER LIZARDS, HECK HAVE HIM LET LOOSE CROCODILES IN THE SEWER OR SOMETHING, UP THE DANGER IN THE ENVIROMENT,BLOW SOME BUILDINGS UP OR WHAT...MULTIPLE VILLAINS IS A BAD IDEA BUT JUST HAVING TWO OPPOSING ENTITIES BAD AND GOOD, EVERYTHING ELSE IS COMPLIMENTING FILLER IN BETWEEN....MULTIPLE VILLAINS ONLY WORKS IN X MEN MOVIES, YOU EXPECT IT...GOOD THAT RAIMI IS BRINGING IT BACK TO WHERE HE STARTED WITH SPIDERMAN..MONO E- MONO...THATS HOW YOU DO IT RAIMI.
GUNSMITH - 10/28/2009, 10:57 AM
Shaman@ i have faith in the Lizard as a character...differant strokes and all lol :P
teabag - 10/28/2009, 11:01 AM
As I grew up with the 90's animated series it was the Green Goblin that became my favourite villain and then when I started reading comic books it was at the time when he was in almost every other issue so he's actually the character Id most like to see in one of the next Spider-Man movies! Still, even after reading hundreds of graphic novels of both classic and recent stuff, The Lizard and Kraven have remained my least favourite Spider-Man villains! Bring back Norman! :)

Image and video hosting by TinyPic
joshw24 - 10/28/2009, 11:03 AM
GUNSMITH- Exactly what i'm talking about, an overgrown Lizard that sets reptiles loose and blows up buildings... LLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMEEEEE!!!!

Teabag- True, to each's own ;)
Shaman - 10/28/2009, 11:06 AM
@ shaman

i have to disagree buddy. lizard is a very cool villain. and the dynamic between spidey fighting his own teacher and personal friend is interesting! and lets not forget, spidey is a street level character, he shouldn't be fighting world threatening villains alone.

lizard getting loose and killing people in the streets, spidey finds out its connors, and there's a big moral problem there. i think it could be interesting. lets remember that spidey has fought the lizard a million times in the comics, and they've been successful.

i don't disagree that throwing in kraven would be even better though. then spidey would have to try to protect lizard from kraven, while lizard is trying to kill him. that would be pretty interesting. and i think they could pull it off, it wouldn't take much time to explain connors turning into the lizard, especially since he's already been introduced.
CorndogBurglar - 10/28/2009, 11:09 AM
good luck Raimi - you're already getting r@ped before you have a script.
Keven - 10/28/2009, 11:10 AM
Aw come on Keven, what, are you sad you missed the hate train?
Betty - 10/28/2009, 11:21 AM
good one villian is the best the lizard is kick ass i hope the dude off of trick r treat plays him
Marvel Rules - 10/28/2009, 11:27 AM
CDB- None of Spidey's villains are world threatening yet every other villain is more adequate on screen than the Lizard. "Spidey fighting his own teacher and personal friend is interesting" yes but not two straight hours. You need alot more to keep people entertained. The Jekyl concept gets old fast as Hulk proved. You need a bigger plot that the friend turning into a monster and having to deal with it.
Shaman - 10/28/2009, 11:28 AM
There should be a quick cameo of another villain, maybe in the opening scene Pete takes down the Vulture or whatever.
MarkV - 10/28/2009, 11:30 AM
I'm tellin' y'all, Rhino, Lizard, Kraven.
Betty - 10/28/2009, 11:34 AM
Betty- That's not my favorite choice but it would be the most logical one for SM4!
Shaman - 10/28/2009, 11:41 AM
Shaman-- What would be your best case scenario cast? If you said it above, I missed it sorry.
Betty - 10/28/2009, 11:46 AM
I'm a 90s child and having grown up on the Spiderman Animated Series of the 90s, I saw the beast Lizard. I never really much cared for the intelligent one, seems pretty hokey, a talking genius Lizard? I think the beast Lizard can work. Have Conner turn into the Lizard rampageco kill some people. Spidey fights beats him and turns him back. Conners can't believe what he has done and consoles with Peter of how disgusted he is with his actions. Spidey thinks Lizard is done but, then finds out Conners sets up a master plan to turn everyone into Lizards. Conner's whole i'm so sorry bit was a hoax. Conners turns into Lizard again after setting up a device that will turn everyone into Lizards, Spidey must race against time to stop the machine while taking on the beastial reptile. Spidey being beat by Lizard starts reasoning with him "But your family", he breaks through and with a last ditch effort of humanity Lizard stops the machine seemingly destroying himself in the process.

There you go Lizard storyline.
MidKnight35 - 10/28/2009, 11:57 AM
GOOD NEWS NOW ALL WE NEED IS DANNY ELFMAN TO RETURN AND THIS MOVIE WILL BE EPIC


luffycapri - 10/28/2009, 11:58 AM
I think at the end we cut to Kraven getting of a plane cus he's come to hunt the mysterious creature reported in the sewers, picks up a paper with the headline "Spidey defeats Lizard creature" or something. Therefore leading to Spidey 5 and Kraven directing his attention to Spidey :P
teabag - 10/28/2009, 12:01 PM
teabag: Sorry man, but I wouldnt want Lizard in 4 and Kraven in 5...Id rather get them both out of the way in one movie if we have to then get on with Scorpion or Electro and hopefully The Sinister Six! :)
joshw24 - 10/28/2009, 12:12 PM
I'm going to disagree here.

Just because the multiple villain concept worked poorly in SpiderMan III did not work well does not mean that it should be automatically discounted. The problem with SM3 was the writing. A decent writer could draw in three supervillains into a single movie and make them work well.

So, if they did do Lizard AND Kraven, I think it could work well, but only if they stay the hell away from the idiot who turned SpiderMan in to Tony Montero from Saturday Night Fever crossed with Jerry Lee Lewis.
bropous - 10/28/2009, 12:16 PM
Just curious, though:

If you guys hate the concept of multiple villains in a comic book movie, then why so hot and hard for the Sinister Six?
bropous - 10/28/2009, 12:20 PM
bropous--Don't confuse us!
Betty - 10/28/2009, 12:27 PM
The Lizard?!! I hope they make him very scary and dark character. Althought i would like to see Green Goblin coming back to revenge, meaner than ever.
AlexDeLarge666 - 10/28/2009, 12:33 PM
@bropus: I actually don't want to see the Sinister 6 on-screen. I think it would just be one big crap fest designed to sell toys to kids. I love the Sinister 6 in comics but, thats where it should stay, I think the writers would F it up and we would see an SM3 crap fest.
MidKnight35 - 10/28/2009, 12:34 PM
I cant help but agree... Lizard and Kraven would be perfect for the next movie. The thing is,every time a comic book movie is announced as being in production all of us fans start thinking of ideas for how the movie should go. Like which villans; how many villans; which characters should make their first appearance and so on. But when the movie finally comes out, more often than not, its completely different than any of us had imagined it would be. The movie sometimes ends up being better than any of could have imagined(The dark knight) or it ends up failing miserably(X:men origins wolverine)but it happens. What I'm trying to say is I want the next Spiderman movie to have The lizard and Kraven,like most of us do but more than likely the movie will end up different than any of us will have expected, so if we want lizard and kraven in the next movie we should stop talking about wanting them in the next movie.(sound logical enough?)
bubastis237 - 10/28/2009, 12:34 PM
spongebob square pants should be the main villain and we should leave lizard as a background villain ! on a level !
FrankCastle1 - 10/28/2009, 12:38 PM
Bruce Campbell will be Mac Gagnon aka Scorpion.
GOTHAMknights2012 - 10/28/2009, 12:57 PM
Its Mac Gargan not Gagnon.
MidKnight35 - 10/28/2009, 1:00 PM
I don't think the concern of having multiple villains as the topic here. The issue some people are getting across who are against having multiple characters was due to the horrible adaption done previously. In other words, the incorporation was completed incorrectly during the development process (inaccurate/bad writing, etc) so they fear history repeating itself. If the writing concepts were handled appropriately in Spider-Man 3, I can bet the majority of people who now say they would prefer The Lizard only because of how the franchise has progressed, would see a bright future with incorporating for example Kraven and The Lizard to generate a well thought out realm for Spider-Man. You'll have the emotional attachment with the good doctor, while still having the intense action sequences battling Kraven from killing The Lizard as well as battling the negative persona of the doctor created due to his transformation.

So I never denounced having multiple villains just for the sake of it, I feel the last film was handled incorrectly during the development process and although they said they learned from the error, they could very well perform the same mistake yet again in Spider-Man 4, 5,etc.

If Raimi and his team follows delicately the interaction of two or more villains from the comic book...and I don't mean to bow to the needs of fans across the globe but adhere to the level of interaction created with said villains in the comic books by the comic book writers, then if done correctly, the route of two villains would redeem the film's writers from the chaotic method done on Spider-Man 3.

Multiple villains are not a bad thing in movies...it's bad when it's done horribly. As someone said, you can hint at villains during the film; news alert about something wrecking havoc during the closing credits, a brief encounter of a lesser known character that he battles and captures in the introduction, etc.
Whispers68 - 10/28/2009, 1:25 PM
@Whispers - I agree completely.
Bamf7 - 10/28/2009, 1:28 PM
I’m with Betty =D a mini epic Rhino vs Spidey brawl to start the movie! Then move on to the story about the lizard and peter parker

I also agree that the whole origins stories are getting a little redundant. They should try a new approach to introduce the bad guys.
thatiscrazy - 10/28/2009, 2:11 PM
Betty- My favorite spidey villains are Mysterio, Sandman and Electro. Mysterio could be tacky on screne but i wouldn't say no to a good Electro match-up! That might be my "favorite" choice but i do like what Kraven would imply by being part of the Lizard/Spidey triangle. So it's my second favorite scenario only cause i really really hate the lizard ;)
Shaman - 10/28/2009, 2:12 PM
Why do you hate the lizard, Shaman. Hes a well written character. And a classic villan.
bubastis237 - 10/28/2009, 2:19 PM
Going back to one villain would just reduce the Spidey franchise to predictable, safe, formulaic plots! Had three villains been PLANNED for part III from the start, I think we would have seen a very different movie, however the villains still would've needed to be connected in some way!

Having Venom shoe-horned in at the end is really where SpM3 failed the worst. Venom had no business showing up in that movie; Eddie Brock's introduction had already taken up enough time. Brock's screen time should've ended when Pete hit the church bells to get the black suit off of him. Then the Brock/symbiote combine of Venom could've been introduced for part 4 or 5!

Instead they tried to rush a subplot that should have been slow boiling build to a huge payoff, into a hyper-condensed cameo appearance just to get Venom out of the way! I don't know that using Harry for the final battle was the wisest choice; it seemed like the writers wanted an excuse to kill him off to provide us with a sense of closure in case the franchise didn't continue! Seems like ultimately no one wanted to be the decision-maker and finally say "Enough! This isn't working!"

One of the things really ailing this franchise is what has become "stunt casting", in that Tobey and Kirsten have kind of held things up with their "contract negotiations"! What the hell else has Tobey Maguire ever starred in that made the kind of dough that the Spidey franchise has made him? I mean, c'mon!

Had Tobey not been playing pussy-foot with the studio, stories could have been more effectively mapped out for the duration of the franchise, instead of this "wait and see" crap that's going on right now! Clearly SpM2 was able to quickly go into production because everyone involved had a clear sense of what they wanted to acclomplish! The minute Raimi decided the Sandman was going to be the main villain with Harry's "New Goblin" as a minor villain, things should have started moving right along! Instead we've got this meandering and second-guessing going on that's driving us all mad!!

That said I can't see the Lizard carrying a movie without Kraven! Sorry! He's just too weak of a character on his own! At this point, we need intelligently, well thought-out plots that lead somewhere!

shaman - You need to take some pills to help you focus!! You're talking about the Lizard and suddenly you start bashing the Hulk?! WTF? Bruce Banner doesn't turn evil when he changes into the Hulk! The dichomoty there is one of an introverted genius who's id takes over for his super-ego, thus losing his inhibitions. This is a totally different juxtaposition to the Lizard's dynamic! The only similarity aside from their green skin and purple pants is that they're both tragic! Don't get me started!

Betty - Enough with the Rhino shit! Give me your address so I can mail your ass some comics! The reason I keep suggesting older comics to read is because those that aren't familiar with the original stories lack the perspective that would give you true insight into what you're speaking about! The 90s Marvel 'toons will only lead you astray!
JonF - 10/28/2009, 2:44 PM
The Lizard as the main villain & introduce Black Cat....that's a good movie !!
CRUSH - 10/28/2009, 2:48 PM
@ lee . your pick for carnage is spot on man
gothamknight611 - 10/28/2009, 3:03 PM
spidey will get his ass kicked up and down by the lizard. especialy when he knows who it really is and trys to save him. hope they come up with a good look for the lizard. and a transformation that makes sense.
grif - 10/28/2009, 3:20 PM
@ lee, yes brilliant casting for carnage

@ crush, AMEN!! i want a lizard movie!! sick of buddy villain movies. just give me one baddy.

and black cat would be HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JerzeyHellboy - 10/28/2009, 3:21 PM
kool
flames809 - 10/28/2009, 3:24 PM
I wonder if Dr. Otto Octavious will make an appearance, seeing as he's a good friend of Dr. Connors. It would be cool to see him again, but if not, at least see his shadow with the Lizard's shadow in some dark alley.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v640/JohnDylan6/TheLizard9.jpg
Timerider84 - 10/28/2009, 3:50 PM
Nice, back to a winnig formula of (1) hero and (1) villian. Hope they stick to it. This "reliable source" could be BS too for all we know.
antz1104 - 10/28/2009, 3:57 PM
The best way to do it is the Dark Knight way. Have multiple villains inserted into a good story. No character should be put in a movie just for the sake of putting him in a movie i.e. Venom.
Ryguy88 - 10/28/2009, 4:12 PM
Timerider@ you mean a flash back right?
antz1104 - 10/28/2009, 4:33 PM
I hope THE LIZARD in SPIDERMAN 4.
OSCURO - 10/28/2009, 4:50 PM
im shore sum1 already said this put the latino review has sum of the worst news goin if they said theres 1 villain then there prob 3
jimthefan - 10/28/2009, 6:03 PM
Leee are you a casting director? I bet you are!
Axl - 10/28/2009, 6:08 PM
JonF-- Uh, I do know what I'm talking about. That's why I'm suggesting Rhino as a throw away villain, in the beggining of the movie.

I'll still take your free comics!
Betty - 10/28/2009, 6:37 PM
Axl: Ha! Are you kidding man? Check out some of LEE's fan casts - they're full of porn stars and CSI stars, lol! ;D He even wants the half naked guy off teh Maltesers ads as Captain America!

Talking of that...Guys, head over to Fan Fic to see my Doctor Strange Fan Cast!!!
joshw24 - 10/28/2009, 6:42 PM
LOL!! His Carnage casting choice is good though.
Axl - 10/28/2009, 6:47 PM
Axl: Yeah, lol! LEE knows Im only winding him up - he's done some great fan casts actually - i just like to remind him of the odd few bad choices he made, hehe! :D
joshw24 - 10/28/2009, 7:56 PM
he can at least have 2 villians, but maybe vanderbuilt is doing the kraven storyline for the last 2. who knows, for i know that i wud love to do a triliogy of my own, but cameron wud get the job more likely...

im in media concepts so expect my own videos of my own work on utube, myspace, or any other site...
kyle dalton - 10/28/2009, 8:06 PM
Good, too many villians is bad. So many super hero movies die on this one issue.
YogiDonnie - 10/28/2009, 9:02 PM
They should just remake spiderman 3 and go from there..
thenumber12 - 10/28/2009, 11:03 PM
thenumber12--great idea
Betty - 10/29/2009, 12:11 AM
Rumor
Deadpool813 - 10/29/2009, 12:36 AM
I can see something cool like this happening:

Lizard's the main villain all through part 4. After he's finally beaten and subdued or the lizard juice wears off (whatever) Spidey's swinging along, carefree, lamenting on his victory and questioning life bla bla; all of a sudden he's tackled by an unseen figure... VENOM (Survived the explosion somehow, bla bla work with it).

A small-scale fight erupts between the two after some dialogue; but then cut to an armored car carrying a psychopathic killer being transported to the asylum. A misdirected swing kick by Spidey sends Venom flying into the armored car, flipping it over. As Venom lies on his back stunned, the symbiote senses an evil host and attaches to the occupant inside the truck. The back doors fly off, a maniacal loud screeching roar is heard, stopping both Spiderman and Venom in their tracks. They approach the back of the truck to investigate and a bunch of red tendrils come flying out of the truck. End movie :D Carnage in part 5!

OK that kinda turned into a fanfic, but SHIT that would be cool!
Slayer420 - 10/29/2009, 2:42 AM
bubastis237- The Lizard is well written for a comic book or animated series setting. There's been two different Lizards, one that is a talking Lizard which would be lame in a box office feature and the other is a rampaging beast which me along side the majority of regular movie goers wouldn't be caught dead "waiting in line" opening day to pay full price to see. Rampaging beasts are left for half price nights if nothing better is available. That's why i hate the lizard so much as a stand alone character. He desperately needs Kraven to attach more of a "plot" to the film. "The Hunt" provides what would lack otherwise.

JonF- Don't go delving into the psychobable bullshit behind both characters. I KNOW THEY'RE DIFFERENT!!! But where they are in deed "the same" is in regards to their "concept" of a human being mutating back and forth out of control into a rampaging beast. THAT IS LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMEEEEEEEE!!!! And YES TIH did prove my point! The majority of average movie goers aren't that much into the concept! Take werewolves for an example, they either need to attach a big name like Jack Nicholson, label the film as a remake of a classic like Wolfman or to have them accompanied by Vampires like in Underworld or Twilight for the film to break any reccords. Ang Lee's Hulk had better winnings ONLY on account of Nostalgia of the tv show. TIH followed with a better story, better effects and way more acclaims!!! Still, the "animorphic" concept lacked and people chose to go watch something else. The facts don't lie!
Shaman - 10/29/2009, 7:10 AM
Slayer420--Sounds like video game.
Betty - 10/29/2009, 9:19 AM
Spider-man 3 was poor because of the story, not the amount of villains. If Spider-man 4 is Tobey Maguire's last time as Spider-man, then there needs to be a more sinister villain involved. The Lizard is Peter's friend in need of help. And he only behaves evil in his reptile state. Throw in Morbius as the other villain, use the Neogenic Nightmare story from the 90s cartoon, and have Spidey grow 4 extra arms at some point in the movie- That's what I think would make a great Spider-man 4!
Bud - 10/29/2009, 10:06 AM
Bruce Campbell's appearances in the first 3 films does make me think of Mac Gargan though... I believe there is a strong possibility of the Scorpion being in SM4. And if so, J Jonah Jameson may get pulled deeper into the storyline!
Bud - 10/29/2009, 10:12 AM
Shaman - Why you keep comparing the Hulk to other animorphic types is beyond me as the Hulk is totally unique - he is a classic "monster" type that exists in a super-hero world! That's what makes him cool! At no point did I imply that the Hulk had mass market potential...I actually like the fact that he only appeals to fans with a certain taste!

I think you're wrong comparing him to the Lizard, as Curt Connors' alter-ego developed out of a degenerative side-effect from mixing reptile DNA with his own! Bruce Banner's multiple personalities come from much deeper issues that just happened to manifest themselves upon exposure to an extremely high dose of gamma radiation! His alters were dormant before he was caught in the gamma blast and likely would have eventually surfaced regardless!

You're also forgetting the wicked plot device of the Hulk's anger triggering his transformations! This is responsible for many a memorable tale, as it creates the crucial aspect of suspense in the Hulk's stories, as well as being the catalyst for a multitude of cliffhangers!! Because the Lizard is so one-dimensional, I can't see him EVER carrying his own film, much less starring in his own comic book - especially not for 47 years!!

Your comments regarding the two Hulk movies are ironic, considering Letterier's version had much more in common with the old TV show than Ang's did! The audience that showed up to see Ang's Hulk wasn't ENTIRELY comprised of people who thought the television series had been turned into a big budget action film - Ang's take was based on the COMIC BOOK version of the character!

LL had the benefit of going second, which gave him needed insight into what the public had an appetite for and allowed him to gauge expectations more accurately! If you don't like Ang's take, at least give it credit for acting as the litmus test! The 2003 Hulk film was much more ambitious than Letterier's "by-the-numbers" action rip-off of the TV show!

IDK if your aware, but throughout the 60s and 70s, Spider-Man, the Hulk, Captain America, the Thing and the Human Torch were the characters most frequently licensed out and were the touchstones most associated with Marvel Comics by the general public! I doubt the Hulk could have sustained such a high level of popularity over such a long period of time if he were lame!
JonF - 10/29/2009, 2:03 PM
Betty - No, you don't! In 300 issues of Amazing Spider-Man, the Rhino fought Spidey a grand total of THREE TIMES! In the 60s and 70s, he fought the Hulk nearly 20 times! Obviously, you weren't aware of this, which is why I offered to mail you some comics! Watching the 90s Marvel animated series, I can see where you would get the idea that the Rhino was Spider-Man's enemy; he's really just a thug out for a big score! With the Hulk, he actually had a RIVALRY that lasted for years and he was actually portrayed as a dangerous threat! So I would prefer the character be utilized more effectively rather than see him treated as if he were a one-off joke! He did fight Spidey more often in the 90s, but still never really held a grudge specifically against the web-slinger!
JonF - 10/29/2009, 2:25 PM
This is great, I like the Lizard a lot.

I was actually thinking though, and it's probably been mentioned; we don't have to meet each villain independently and dedicate a whole movie to them, you know?
For example, what if Spider-man was just fighting a villain right in the beginning of the movie? It'd make for a great fight scene to draw us in. Like Electro, Scorpion, Shocker, I guess even Sandman? Any villain where there's really no need to give him an origin and an entire movie.

But maybe they don't do that just because I guess the world is supposed to be kind of realistic and each supervillain is supposed to be like so unusual.
deraj36 - 10/29/2009, 3:48 PM
I still think Lizard and Kraven would be a good match for a movie, the reason why Spidey 3 suffered so much was it had 3 villains and Venom was just thrown in there. I think 2 villains is fine as long as they make sense together and Kraven hunting the lizard makes sense. Venom Sandman and New Goblin made no sense.
Osiris - 10/29/2009, 8:06 PM
JonF-- I said Rhino, throw away villain, beginning of movie. Meaning he is not an important character. I agree with you. Read what the hell I say. God Damn Hulk isn't going to be in any Spidey movie. Rhino would be used to introduce a more important character. He is a pawn/ cannon fodder. I know this. From the comics. I didn't watch this lame as 90s cartoon.

Mail me some free comics, please. Include Cosmic Spidey vs Grey Hulk--Mcfarlane cover, mine is all creased up.
Betty - 10/29/2009, 8:46 PM
JonF- Topic has gone down so i'm not sure if you'll read this but, i agree with Betty, you gotta read what we type here, man. Everything that you just said still doesn't change one iota about my comment which was: "they are in deed the same in regards to their "concept" of a human being mutating back and forth out of control into a rampaging beast. THAT IS LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMEEEEEEEE!!!!". No matter what "triggers" the transformation, the point is that they do transform. THAT concept is what is lame no matter what depth you attach to it. It's stale and lame and incredibly DATED. It's been done. Everytime a new film comes out with the same concept i feel like someone's trying to make me eat back my own vomit. It doesn't sell anymore. And yes childhood nostalgia is a potent phenomenon, enough for Ang's Hulk to rekindle the interest so to speek. The concept was brilliant in the 70ies and wasn't concidered lame until Ang came to establish just how dated and stale the concept had become. It's not his fault or the character's that humans have evolved.

As for Ang's Hulk versus TIH, again you need to read what i type. I never said that "the audience that showed up to see Ang's Hulk was ENTIRELY comprised of people who thought the television series had been turned into a big budget action film". What i said was that the "appeal" of the film was generated mostly by nostalgia of the favorite 70ies show. Of course they knew it would be different but people in general were fans of the "classic and dated" 70ies show and wanted to see what they could bring to it's concept. Once they were satisfied with what they saw, they no longer felt the "need" or "want" to see the next chapter whether it be a reboot or a sequel. THAT ALONE is why TIH did not sell as well because almost everyone that saw the film raved about it contrary to Ang Lee's film. NORMALLY in all logic and common sense, TIH "should" have gotten more profit but they didn't cause no one cared to see the next chapter regardless of how better it actually was. And for the reccord, i do like Ang's take minus the hulk dogs but i prefered TIH.
Shaman - 10/30/2009, 10:10 AM
I WANT SCORPION!!!!!!!!!
JJMeylar - 10/30/2009, 12:08 PM
Betty - ASpM #328 - I still have that issue in mint condition! Bought it when it was new 19 years ago! Forward me your address!

My point was that if you want to see the Rhino on the big screen, he should be used in a more effective capacity! I have no desire to see him treated as a joke! The fact that he isn't bright is why some mastermind, be it Egghead, the Leader or Justin Hammer, is always giving him direction! If he can't hit Spidey, than what's the point? It would be a waste of time! I prefer the idea of the Shocker being the cameo villain - he's actually one of Spidey's more frequent opponents!

Shaman - Of course the concept is dated - the Hulk came out in 1962!! - Hello? This is another case of us agreeing on many points, but you seemed to be hating on the Hulk, so I came out swinging! I think that the Hulk has been far more DEVELOPED beyond just being a "concept"! He has a distintive personality that separates him from the other classic animorphs, but you'll notice that in both films, he's shown as the raging beast, while in the old comics, he spoke far more frequently! This may be what's the catalyst for our debate! I get what you're saying; the Hulk probably works better on the printed page than he does onscreen, but LL's version just seemed rushed and under-developed! It was like Hulk Redux! I also don't feel the Hulk should star in an ongoing title indefinitely, but he obviously sells so well that Marvel isn't willing to shelve him for a few years to allow the Hulk character/concept to refresh itself!

For the record, you said "Ang's film's success was solely on account of nostalgia of the 70s show. PERIOD." Nostalgia was a huge factor, of course, but it wasn't the ONLY factor!! I had waited for DECADES to see a more accurate depiction of the Hulk - meaning one that would be faithful to the comics! While I loved the old TV show, they simply did not have the budget or the FX to produce a true adaptation of the property to scale! So things were adjusted to account for that change, and it worked perfectly! Back in 2003, a lot of people I spoke to that were excited to see the movie only knew the Hulk from the Bixby/Ferrigno series and thought that Ang's movie was based on that adaptation, not realizing that the Hulk was a comic book character first! So you're ignoring the CB fans that were eagerly anticipating the film's release! Surely we contributed to the film's profits?

The 2008 TIH felt like LL DELIBERATELY made his film derivative of the show to appease those who weren't satified with Ang's take. It seemed to be all for nothing though, as the two films did nearly identical box office takes! I believe that is why the general consensus when comparing the two pictures always seems to generate such a hot debate! Why can't people just like both?

To an established fan, TIH had no intrigue, as one could tell very clearly where the story was going! With a better script, more could've been done! At least Ang tried new and different things! Ideally combining the two films would satisfy everyone, but that ship has sailed...



JonF - 10/30/2009, 2:28 PM
JonF

Betty Master Pain
3190 Betty Cir
Decatur, ga 30032

Wow dude, thanks! That is so nice of you.
Betty - 10/30/2009, 2:44 PM
1 2

Please log in to post comments.

Don't have an account?
Please Register.