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The reason we SHOULD see Wolverine in theatres!

I’d never thought I’d say this but giving FOX a break, might just be what the doctor ordered.
Well, a lot has been said on the upcoming Wolverine movie in a negative manner but like I have said before I am not nor will I ever be a "Fan Boy". I'm a fan. So regardless of liberties taken, I would've watched the movie anyway. At first I thought that they were truly going to screw over Deadpool in an unredeemable way which got me saying "Screw this, I’ll wait till one of my friends buys it and watch it for free" since to me, it would have been the same as watching a “Superman in a Royal Canadian Mounted Police uniform” movie which would be down right “iffy”. But then I realised that no matter what they do with the character (chopping his head off and all), he's actually one of the only ones that actually CAN come back to give us what we want. What I look for in a movie is for the actors to SHOW their appreciation of the character they're playing which really transpires greatly through the screen. Here are a few perfect examples to explain my point:

Hugh Jackman: The guy's Coo Coo for Wolvie puffs!!! It shows as much as it did when Christopher Reeves delivered Superman. Very rarely does an actor go the extra mile as he does dedicating himself to make the fans happy… you know, the actual movie goers that MATTER! To make the character be much more than just a role, to give him LIFE!!! Regardless if he’s wearing a tank top and jeans instead of yellow spandex, regardless of the details pertaining to his previous comic book adventures, to see an actor give a damn to a point where he literally breathes life into the character should be enough to make you appreciate the movie you’re watching. Tom Jane did exactly that in his version of The Punisher. Yes the movie was a piece of shit but he made me enjoy it none the less. Granted Stevenson practically took the character off of the page and smacked it on screen but he didn’t relate to the majority as much as Jane did. Tom Jane related to our “real life-human side” that most of us tend to look for in movies. From the family man he was in the beginning to the destroyed human being, eating his pancakes in that diner, listening to that idiot hick sing his song… to The Punisher doing what he does best, giving to the criminals what the justice system can’t. That movie was as much flawed as it was perfect.



On the other side of the coin, you have Halle Berry which obviously didn't give a flying fragg about "STORM". She just wanted more screen time for HER. Catwoman ring any bells??? She was NEVER Catwoman, she was Halle Berry in a cat-whore outfit. She was selfish and it TOTALLY showed. She screwed that character over!!! In what comic do you see STORM having that much importance aside from when she became evil in the savage lands??? Never. It's unfortunate but her character was never meant to have that much importance. It is a SUPPORTING character. Berry was just jealous of Jean Grey hoggin' all the good lines. Tough shit, that's X-MEN! It has nothing to do with her skin color. If Bishop was brought in an AOA/X-movie, HE'd have major importance.



There is another example that might not be as popular as Halle Berry but still gets the point across. In my honest opinion, Christian Bale as Batman is a perfect example. The guy takes his "JOB" seriously since he's sooooo professional IT'S DIIISSSSSSTRAAAACTING!!!! But he doesn't give a shit whether he's Bruce Wayne or John Conner and it damn well shows so don't even try to say any different. We just let it slide in his case because he is so good at what he does that we can live with him not getting giddy over a character. Batman is a role of a life time but he takes it as going to work on a Monday morning kinda thing. THAT is the very reason why I will always prefer Michael Keaton over Bale any day of the week no matter how many TDK's he dishes out. Keaton LOVED being Batman, hell he even loved being Bruce Wayne!!! That's the kind of actors we NEED for our comic book movies. Robert Downey Jr. anyone???



And X-men Origins: Wolverine is a whole bucket full of just THAT!!! Actors who DO give a shit of who they're given the PRIVILEGE of playing. Liev Schreiber, you can tell he LOVES his role as we can tell from mere trailers that he delivered a way better performance than Tyler Mane ever could. Not because of natural acting talent, because Mane took the character to showcase how big and scary he is in real life. If you watch X-men again, you'll all see just how EMPTY his character is. And it has nothing to do with the script either. I dare you to remake it with Liev in his place delivering the same exact lines. The results would be astounding. Just by his glare, you can see that he's LIVING the character. Ryan Reynolds is another great example of it. HE LOVES Deadpool!!! He was going into filming HOPING to get a spin-off but appreciated the role so much that he would have willingly contributed to FOX's insulting “raping and destruction” of the character if it meant giving him the opportunity to portray him on screen in anyway shape or form.



I'm sure the same could be said of Taylor Playing Gambit but we just haven't heard much from him in as many interviews as the others. But it shows that he IS aware that his role is in fact a PRIVILEGE. He certainly got through a pep talk or two with Hugh relating the fans reaction to seeing a glimpse of Gambit at the Comic-con! It was Astronomical!!! When I saw Hugh's reaction to the fans reaction I almost peed my pants laughing at how STARTLED he was!!! I mean, he knew but hadn't the slightest idea of how intensely Gambit is loved.



In short us-fans might not be getting what we WANT out of this film but for the second time in comic book movie history (Ironman being the first); we'll be getting what we NEED!!! And it should show to one and all exactly how comic book movies SHOULD be made from any vantage point on the set. It should be made with respect, dedication but MOST of all… APRECIATION. See you in theatres!!!

Thanks Myth, for keeping the spirit of the movie alive for each and everyone of us!

The “Shaman” has spoken!!!
50 Yes
6 No
Shaman
4/3/2009

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89 Comments

Good article Shaman, and I agree with you.
It's too easy to get lost in the amount of artistic license that has been taken, I know I'm guilty! But it's too early to say, as none of us have seen the actual (completed) film yet, and most of the gripes that we would have would be premature and unwarrented.
I, for one, plan to see this movie in theaters when it's released (hopefully before ;-), and I can't wait to see the final product. The actors sure seem to enjoy their roles, and performances from the likes of Hugh Jackman and Leiv Schrieber are usually top notch anyway.
Thinks for putting a little perspective into place to "calm the masses", so to speak, it's refreshing to hear a clear minded outlook for a change!
adamant877 - 4/3/2009, 10:17 AM
Well said man. Im sick of seeing actors take these roles for the cash, showing no respect to the character or the fans.
divo - 4/3/2009, 10:17 AM
rock on man!
number10 - 4/3/2009, 10:18 AM
I will see this film as I am a huge Wolverine Fan. I just hope that it is good as before this whole Weapon XI thing this film looked fantastic (especially with the director from Tsotsi who seemed to be going the right way)and although I would like to see more X-men films I know that is not going to happen and so this is a close runner up (as long as its not like X3)

Great little piece by the way. I know this isn't going to happen any time soon but now that Marvel is nowhere near going backrupt I would like to see them buy back their characters like spider-man and the x-men and create the marvel universe (like what they're doing with the avengers) as no matter how much I love the first 2 spider-mans and x-mens I don't want to see more of the same I want to see them going down the Iron Man/Hulk root... anybody agree?
FattSmelliott - 4/3/2009, 10:21 AM
I have heard rumours about the film. And I am SO GOING to watch this film in the theatres and getting the DVD. Although I was unhappy about Wolverines role in the X-men, in the aspect that the movies could have been called wolverine and the x-men, I enjoyed him very much. I just hope this movie will be the first of many "origins" movies.
Oh did i mention I am SO GOING to watch this :-)
frank666 - 4/3/2009, 10:32 AM
Dissagree.

Ledger called comic books stupid, and I'm glad I saw him as the Joker instead of someone else who read Batman growing up.

All I want to see is good performances of good material, I don't care if the actors feel "privelaged".

I will see Wolverine, however, because I like the actors and the characters and am not bothered by any degree of not-too radical changes.
Frank Garret - 4/3/2009, 10:36 AM
I LOVE Marvel and I LOVE comics!
With that in mind I HATE Fox, they distroy comic movies.
I understand why they do it (money).As a fan, I have to
see the movie and buy it! Thats why we are who we are(comic fans).Would we be fans if we didnt?As for the actors, they have as much control over the movies,as we do.All they can do is there job, and all we can do is support the movies.
Id rather them try, then not make enything at all.

Just my opinion:)
NEXUS - 4/3/2009, 10:48 AM
I totally agree with you Shaman, even if the movie sucks (script wise) it is really the actor(s) portrayal of the character(s) that make it worth anything if an actor loves his role as that person then they will portray them as best they can and it will show on film how much they care.

an example would be James Marsters as Piccolo, yeah the movie wasn't great due to script but he was so in love with his character that even if they do a reboot sometime in the future or make a sequel regardless, if he isn't piccolo i will be disappointed he put a lot into that role and tried to live up to the fans wishes and make him what the fans wanted to see.

Michel Keaton was the best Batman/Bruce Wayne and always will be to me. Chris Nolan writes awesome batman movies but Bale is meh as batman he is to professional it's just a job to him.

I am hoping for a Deadpool spin off from this cause like you said he is the only character that can come back from anything besides Wolvie, if they do a spin off of him Ryan needs to force them to stay true to the character or not do it and i don't know if i can see anyone else pulling off DP like Reynolds could.
Osiris - 4/3/2009, 10:56 AM
AMEN to that! Couldn't agree more!

Not many will get this, but to use music as an analogy:

Bale (although I love him) is like a classical musician. They are the best there is. Every note is hit perfectly and can leave you moved by the sheer playing ability shown. But somehow they lack feeling in what they play.

Hugh is like a blues musician. Yes, there's the odd bum note but there is so much feeling in what's being played that the mistakes become a necessary part of the performance and can leave you completely captivated.

If you've not guessed, I'm a musician. I've had people come up to me saying "I've past my grade 8 guitar exam" but listening to them play is cringe worthy and all done parrot fashion. I know people who have learned to play by ear and feel alone and each one achieves a warmth that has left people awe struck.

OK, so I'm probably the only one who knows what I'm banging on about! LOL
Ron - 4/3/2009, 11:01 AM
@Frank: I can kinda see where you're coming from. It doesn't always take an actor whom is head-over-heals for the part he is playing to deliver a revered performance. It does, however, take someone that takes their job seriously and cares about the quality of the product they put out. If they are only worried about the paycheck or whether or not they're going to get an Oscar for their performance, most of the time, that character is going to seem hollow.

BUT, it always adds a little more flare to a character when the actor playing them immerses themselves into the character's world. Knowing the character inside and out, the eccentricities, what the fans know and love the character for; that is the little extra that makes a good actor stand out from a GREAT actor.

Ledger was a great actor because he loved his job and wanted to put out quality. But, that doesn't take anything away from an actor that lives the part of the character they are playing. Sometimes the actor that is immersed in the role makes that character better by being that character, acting as that character would in real life and adding their own twist on things. They may ad-lib within the realm of the script and make things that much more like the character they are portraying; because let's face it, not all writers, directors or producers are "fans" of the movies they are making. This leads to them either sticking strictly to the script or taking their own "creative liberty" which many fans take offense with.
dizzle716 - 4/3/2009, 11:04 AM
This is a great article. It does make the experience of watching the movie more enjoyable when you know that the actors want to play the character instead of looking at it as a pay check. As for Halle Berry as Storm. She was a good fit for X-men especially with the a list cast, but her Catwoman def needs to be left on the shelves. She didn't get the character, and the script was terrible. As far as Bales Batman I loved it. Fans complain about the voice, but everytime I hear him tell Joker "Drop the gun" reminds me of a Western, and the voice fits perfect.
thwip284 - 4/3/2009, 11:06 AM
agreed. except bale, he trys his best as bruce wayne to me it comes off as the character he played in american pshycho, idk maybe this is the best he can do as playing a educated intelligent arrogant character which is what bruce wayne is?

but good article, and i will still go see wolverine less then a month now baby!!!
loganaspatch - 4/3/2009, 11:10 AM
Frank, I'm more on your side here.

Shaman, you lost me when you started ripping Bale. The guy doesn't make bad movies! Period. How can you knock a guy who MAKES a movie? Who else could've nailed "American Psycho" like that? And sorry but I love him as Bruce Wayne. To me I believe him as Bruce versus watching Michael Keaton, who I never felt was believable as a billionaire playboy living the life. Not even to mention how awesome he looks like he'll be as John Connor. Even "The Prestige" was excellent. Why do I care if he eats, sleeps and breathes a character on his FREE TIME if when he's caught on film he is nailing the roles? Sorry, not buying that one.

And as far as the Sabretooth thing goes, that WAS NOT Tyler Mane's fault! The guy was in a total of maybe 6 or 8 minutes of the film and only had about EIGHT LINES!!! How is that NOT the fault of the script?!? Hell, Liev Schreiber has more lines in any one of the trailers than Tyler Mane had in the entire movie! And not to mention that they totally wasted the character's potential in the first film. Where, exactly, do you see that Tyler Mane could have improved the character? In one of the 10-second clips that he was in throughout the movie?

That being said, though, I agree with you on your Hugh Jackman assessment and I do appreciate how he takes the fact that he IS Wolverine and he knows that he has the power to give the fans what they want and is doing everything in his power to do so.
MetalHead - 4/3/2009, 11:16 AM
Well i thank you all for the "cudos" but Myth is the reason i wrote this. He made me believe. If you haven't read his review, it could be somewhat of a source for comfort:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/TheMyth7/news/?a=6844

Frank you do raise a good point but i have to say that i totally agree with Howlett04's analogy of music. If we take Ledger for an example, he did not "appreciate" the role he was playing and... it kinda showed. DO NOT GET ME WRONG here LOL His performance was stellar BUT his "non-appreciation" is THE EXTRA MILE that could have blown Jack Nicholson's out the water!!! Although Ledger WAS stellar, he COULD have been that much more monumental!

Howlett04- It is the same with my drawings. Sure i can draw the portrait of practically anybody but the finished product won't be as remarkable as one from a face i really appreciate and admire. It's the reason i started to draw portraits to begin with, the faces were soooo beautifull, i just had to draw them :)

MetalHead- With all due respect, we've seen a handfull of tv clips in which Liev only has a line or maybe two. So we've seen just about enough to compare him to Mane. And as i said, it doesn't take "lines" or a script to deliver a performance, just the look in his eyes is body language enough for me to REALISE just how much he does appreciate and LIVE his role! And i never said Bale was a bad Batman although he does lack as Bruce Wayne, i just said Keaton was better IMHO. So agree to disagree :)

And so i go back to the drawing board to bring you more art in my galeries which i should post up this week end. Just click on "PICTURES" above if your interested at all :)
Shaman - 4/3/2009, 11:25 AM
good article. But i think Thomas Jane along side Paul Walker are the worse actors ever in the history of film. And regardless if Bale cares about his character or not he always performs icredible as them. I guess since hes so talented its easy for him
ottoevans - 4/3/2009, 11:27 AM
I like this article, But if you own a copy of the collector's addition of batman begins, Christian Bale repeatedly says how honored he was to play such an iconic character. He talks over and over about how great the character is and how he wanted to portray him correctly. He made certain demands of how he must be portrayed to Christopher Nolan... so much that in all of the shots without dialogue he made him "hunched over in the shadows with his cape billowing in the wind". I think Christian does not necessarily approach any movie as just another job. He is a method actor who delves into his roles.
Sorry for the tangent but im a hard core Bale fan ever since Equalibrium and American Psycho... which, combined, those two roles basically make up Batman. The only problem I had with him is that he overplayed certain aspects... such as the newly renowned, guttural "Bat-Voice". But oh well. Thats my opinion
superman7 - 4/3/2009, 11:38 AM
@Shaman- Great article- I couldn't agree more! Come on May 1!

@Howlett04- I know what you're getting at, good analogy-spot on description of Hugh and Bale's acting.
sniktchick74 - 4/3/2009, 11:39 AM
@Shaman:

Seriously, man, I doubt the fact that Schrieber's definite superiority as Creed over Mane can be attributed to him appreciating the role more as much as it is a matter of Schrieber being a more talened actor. Very, very bad example.

And I have to say, I don't see your point about Bale not appreciating Batman. You might say he's as appreciative about Batman as any other role, but that's because Bale's obsessivly devoted to each and every one of his roles. Hell, look at the machinest.
Frank Garret - 4/3/2009, 11:40 AM
Nice piece Shaman.... Since i have seen it though and i dont want to spoil it at all for you all, but please answer me this. why would anybody attack Sabertooth knowing that wolverine is the only one with a chance to stop or kill him? Only then to get your life taken in under ten seconds. serious problems with this movie.
shibazz - 4/3/2009, 11:42 AM
You would think by now hollywood would understand the way to make a good comic book movie is to make it accurate to the material it is supposed to represent. We are comic book fans not hollywood writer fans, we want to see the material we loved portrayed not someone that is unfamilar with it trying to give us their interpretation. It seems pretty simple, stay true to the character, dont go taking liberties with the stories. But i am amazed at the crap that is still spit out as a "comic book movie." And to me the new Wolverine movie is a fail for one simple reason Deadpool. I would have thought the normal way of going about it is hey lets write these characters as well as we can and make it successful, then we can make more money by creating possible outlets for other movies. If money is their true motive they didn't show it because they had so many opportunities with the people in this film to make 30 different spin offs if they wanted and they ruined every single one of those chances.
elephantknowsbest - 4/3/2009, 11:46 AM
After watching the leak, I thought it was really good, and I'm definitely going to see it in theaters, and I think will be even better in theaters.
BuckyB7588 - 4/3/2009, 11:59 AM
shaman great article and i can't wait for origins it will be awesome
dogchasingcars - 4/3/2009, 12:05 PM
The companies making the movies have to have that same dedication and not screw up a movie as important as this one. What they did with Deadpool is horrible.
MIDAS - 4/3/2009, 12:26 PM
I was there a Comic-Con when Jackman came out. First he acknowledged Len Wein, creator of Wolverine, who was in the audience. And then he showed the trailer. He seemed really "geeked" for the clip,and the movie.

No matter what is said, I will still see it. An opinion on the movie shouldn't mean anything until you have one for yourself...
TucsonRican - 4/3/2009, 12:26 PM
I agree and disagree...Mike Keaton couldn't get paid enough to play batman again which goes against your point, and I'm pretty sure Thomas Jane was the same. But good article man...and Halle Berry sucks balls for more balls...
kovacs29 - 4/3/2009, 12:26 PM
I liked your article, but if keaton liked being Batman so much when they asked him to come back why didnt he? lol I mean he decides to make movies like My life, speechless, and Multiplicity right after.

I think Bale is MORE of fan then keaton, I think he even mentioned that in a interview about him growing up, and he also said "If you ADD ROBIN, NO BALE"...just for the fatc being he doesnt want to movies turning into Batman and robin lol.

Well wriitten, but that probabaly the only part i disagreed with, keaton reminds me of the DC batman...on the other hand Bale reminds me of Fank millers version, with a touch of that Dc side lol. I like them both, but Bale went wayyyy into character, keaton just played himself...just like in every other movie he played himself [very one dimensional]
Aiiwolf - 4/3/2009, 12:35 PM
Btw, Jack nicolson made how much of the BATMAN SEQUEL until today....its in his contract. Any batman movie made he makes money off of....smart guy...but at the same tiem guys like him tick me off...he had nothing to do with the movie....maybe lecture Heath about how difficult it will be to play joker lol...other than that whatever.

@ KOVACS29

Thomas Jane didnt return because he didnt like the DIRECTION of the movie, he said the movie was UNFAITHFUL to his interpretation of Punisher. He even wrote a letter on the WEBSITE of Punisher Warzone.
Aiiwolf - 4/3/2009, 12:39 PM
I figured when I said that I preferred Bale over Keaton that I'd be eaten alive. Glad to see many agree. But I have no problem whatsoever agreeing to disagree on who is the better Batman. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and a case could definitely be made for either one. It's not really a matter of debate on this issue, it's just flat-out a preference.

And good point about Keaton not reprising his role and therefore contradicting the argument for him being more dedicated to the role than Bale. With that point it almost says that Keaton is the exact opposite of Jackman in that regard. I feel like Jackman will do whatever the fans want him to do as far as making more movies, going to conventions, etc.

Shaman, (this isn't meant to come off mean-spirited)
The more you write about Sabretooth the more you inadvertantly prove my point. You say "just the look in his eyes." So you mean that when you looked into the FAKE eyeballs of Tyler Mane versus the REAL eyeballs of Liev? Sorry but put Tyler Many in X2 with a huge role and then let's see how he does. It's really unfair to critize him with such a tiny sample-- the majority of which wasn't even his own perspective. It's not like we were seeing Tyler Mane's interpretation of Sabretooth. We saw a guy who was put in a costume (which wasn't created by him) doing exactly what he was told to do in the very few minutes which he was in the film. Now I'm not saying that Liev wouldn't still end up being a better Sabretooth, I'm saying that judging Tyler Mane on his very small sample as Sabertooth in the first film is very unfair.
MetalHead - 4/3/2009, 12:59 PM
Metalhead I agree...with that statement.

Thats like replacing Dr. Conners from Spiderman 1, 2, & 3 for all the small parts he did, with a completely new actor who has a the whoel film to himself as Dr. conners, and the lizard. Personally, I hope they never do that {knock on wood]

Aiiwolf - 4/3/2009, 1:08 PM
Okay, fair point guys. Bale said he was honored. To me it's not the same as giddy. Okay so he appreciated his chance but hardly showed any "ENTHUSIASM" as much as Jackman does. TucsonRican said it himself "He geeked for the clip". To me, there's a huge difference between liking your job, just punching in every morning and actually THRIVE for the special project you are attributed at your highly likable job. Keaton WAS giddy when he landed the role for the first Batman film. Why he didn't come back for the third is probably because the second wasn't as critically acclaimed as the first and he didn't want to go down with the ship. IMHO, that was a smart freakin move since Schumaker massacered the franchise single handedly. Hear anybody asking why Val Kilmer didn't come back??? So all we can do is "speculate" on the reason why Keaton didn't return but no one knows for sure.

Aiiwolf - See Tom Jane isn't anyone's fool. He knows damn well that whatever "magic" sold his punisher movie was actually HIM playing the part the way he did. Then he got the script for the sequel which completely and utterly disregarded the character he built for the film. So naturally he said no. Now as comic book fans, we can totally disregard REALITY but Frank Castle as he is written in the comics does not in any way shape or form relate to the average movie goers. He's not human enough. Tom Jane, although we comic book fans will admit he watered down the character, what he actually did was "humanise" him for the general audience. And he did splendid!

MetalHead- LOL, i knew you were gonna mention Mane's fake eye balls LOL. I wasn't really talking about retina here LMFAO!!! More along the lines of body language, how we can actually communicate with our posture/facial features/glares and all that jazz :) Mane felt like Michael Myers(Holloween not love guru) but hairy, know what i mean? :)

TheDarkCuban- good point :)
Shaman - 4/3/2009, 1:37 PM
amen shaman, I totally agree! why can't people go to a movie and just enjoy it... that's why even though some adaptations may suck but hey give it a chance... try and absorb yourself into the movie don't think about the comics...

Because all in all, movies are completely different projects that stand alone... why didn't anyone get angry with iron man being started in afghanistan... why didn't anyone get angry with jarvis being just the computer system instead of a damned butler...

and while I'm ranting let me just say something on spider-man 3, I need to get it off my chest... was it just me or did anyone notice that venom refers to himself as "I" instead of "we" when he is scheeming with sandman?
TheDarkCuban - 4/3/2009, 1:40 PM
I was actually upset when I heard Tom Jane wasn't doing another Punisher. The film wasn't brilliant but I liked it and thought he was very good.
Ron - 4/3/2009, 1:47 PM
Yeh and after watching Warzone I wanted to break someones arms.

Maybe Lexi Alexader, but she is a girl.

Maybe Ray Stevenson, but he looks hard as nails.

Think I'll go for Jigsaw and Looney Bin Jim (Man! they come right out of a comic book) plus their acting was shite!
castle4punisher - 4/3/2009, 2:21 PM
I agree! I personally loved Tom Jane as the punisher, nothing against Ray. Honestly I got lucky Hugh Jackman and Robert Downey Jr. are portraying my most loved comic book heroes and they are honestly one of the few people who are commited to these roles and aiding this genre.

I mean hell if you even look at wolverine and Tony Stark in video games and media these days they even look like Hugh and Robert. Because these people brought these guys to life and are so good at it and love it!

By not going to the movies to watch Wolverine you arent doing your part! These movies have to make money for their to be more. So even if its not 100% correct its still better than not getting Wolverine at all in my opinion. Hugh Jackman loves this character and loves playing him and does fans like us justice by doing it, so dont take it away from him. Keep watching this leaked crap on the net and their wont be anymore comic book movies!
Sortis - 4/3/2009, 2:21 PM
Edward Norton as Bruce Banner thats pretty amazing too.

Just hope they pick good actors for Captain America and Thor!

Plus I'm waiting for Wolverine in the theatres, it's the only way to see these type of movies for the first time!
castle4punisher - 4/3/2009, 2:33 PM
Okay...might as well start from the top as much as I can:
I can pretty much agree with U on the Punisher thing. Jane did do a good job, eventhough the script was not so good(the character is so easy,..how they continue to screw up is beyond me), and his portrayl was grounded and not to over the top and that worked for me.

The Halle thing?!....guys lets give it a rest. It was old a long time ago. Catwoman was trash that I didnt even consider going to see, so thats no suprise. As for her Storm,....lets' not fool ourselves, she does have acting capabilities besides the ungodly hotness, but it was either take the lines U are given, which aint saying much,...or demand more for ur character and then be labled a b#@*h or difficult actor. I will definitely disagree with the assumption that Storm was never a important character even in the books,...come on dude! Screw the skin color,...Storm is a beast and always has been. I like Jean, but she's never led a team and Storm has always proven her worth in that department. Storm was shitty becuz the script was shitty.

Onward now, now the Keaton/Bale comparison can go on forever. I dug the Keaton but am a Bale fan when its all said and done. The question of enthusiasm that is raised seems a bit misplaced and lopsided. Just becuz we hold these characters and mythos in such high regard and esteem, doesnt mean everyone else is going to be feeling the same way. If an actor like Jackman and whoever else has that type of excitement for a role,...I can appreciate that, but I dont need Bale or anyone else to wear the enthusiasm on their sleeve just to make me feel better about there intentions.

The actors owe us nothing but quality product,...whether that comes from someone who is head over heels and grew up reading the character, someone who doesnt know squat but is just as excited, and the actor who doesnt break into nerdgasms about the role, but is still hell bent on putting his best abilities into the role. Thats all we should ask for.
xmentheeight - 4/3/2009, 2:37 PM
I DIDN'T READ ANYONE'S COMMENTS!!

i have a few moments before i have to go to work, and i just wanted to thank shaman before i did. the same way you give respect to the myth for this article i have to do the same to you. i'm the biggest wolverine fan, and i let that get to me. i had to watch it. my emotions got the best of me and i didn't like it at first. or should i say disappointed. but after a while, and reading this, i realize everything you said. hugh is the best, and all the supporting cast. liev does a great job and i had a feeling that was going to happen. we are lucking for hugh and the team. this is his 4th time playing wolverine, and it will not be the last. he still has two movies left, fox won't let him go. and i don't think that he will either. liev will be back, and after watching this movie at midnight on the first, i will be happy that i still have more to look forward to. so again, shaman, thank you for this. you helped me settle some emotions.
thank you
loelife - 4/3/2009, 2:41 PM
hey shaman, isnt storm second in comand behind cyclops?? that is some kind of importance right?? well, u are right about Halle not really caring about the role, mostly because she was practacally given it, Now that I think about it, i think sanaa lathan would of been so much better, only because she puts her heart in all her roles. As far as Bishop, he really does need to appear in an x men instalment(being played by micheal jai white ofcorse). But as far as comic movies go, i think that u are on to somthing when u talk about what we want out of it, verses from what we need from it, and Ironman really did change that. As far as the Wolverine movie hell yea im peeping it, even tho i watched the leak, still gotta see the finished product.
zinext - 4/3/2009, 2:45 PM
Hey Sheman you idiot! put a [frick]ing spoiler warning!!! Not all of us have seen the bootleg film. They did reshoots for Deadpool, so it might not have been in that copy you illegally watched in your basement.
CaptainAmerica - 4/3/2009, 2:52 PM
i commented before but forgot to throw my support in for Jane i own that version of Punisher so i enjoyed it, ive read a few crossover comics with punisher in them and his a prick in the comics i read but i still enjoyed jane's version of him in the movie.

they should have made the main boss/bad guy a sentinal if they wanted to enforce that mutant termination plot they tried to cook up, would have been alot more enjoyable then a few things that went on in the movie .. wait am im allowed to say that? .. um end comment.
:]

GO SEE WOLVERINE MAY 1ST!!
loganaspatch - 4/3/2009, 2:58 PM
Shaman,
That "fake eyeballs" thing did make me laugh too.
MetalHead - 4/3/2009, 3:25 PM
I also love the work that Jane did for the extended cut dvd of the punisher. He really did believe in the character! And I feel sorry for him, because by the sounds of it he really wanted the Jonah Hex gig too!

Anyway I suggest to people to not get upset about the lack of screen time of Gambit and Deadpool in this movie. Because, the name of the movie is Wolverine!

castle4punisher - 4/3/2009, 3:41 PM
i agree im gonna go watch this movie
greenlanter13 - 4/3/2009, 3:53 PM
Very well wrote. I think you should have a movie
mounted88 - 4/3/2009, 4:00 PM
I agree with the majority of what you've said, however, I think you are mistaken on your opinion of Storm. Whatever you feel about Halle Berry (whom personally I love), Storm is not a mere "supporting" character. In the comics she was next in line for taking over after Cyclops. There were times when she did have to take over, when Xavier was missing or thought dead. Eventually she marries the Black Panther and becomes a queen, and therefore has not been involved in the X-men as much, but that should not be taken to mean that her character is a mere "support". In the comics she is one of the strongest members of the x-men, maybe not physically, but most definitely in spirit and powers, and becomes the victim of a lot of inner turmoil, and I was glad that they took the character further then what was in the first movie.

But, in general, I think you have a very good article here, and I agree, that with the exception of Wolverine and Sabertooth, Deadpool is probably the only character that can be brought back without having to give an elaborate explanation. Being as his healing factor was based off Wolverine's DNA, it makes sense, that like Wolverine & Sabertooth, he would be able to heal back from anything.

I think Bale was excellent as Batman, and I don't think Keaton and Bale can be compared. I loved Keaton's portrayal as well. Same with the Nicholson and Ledger. Two absolutely brilliant actors giving brilliant performances. The two movies and their actors cannot be compared simply because they are two different universes. Tim Burton's Batman is in a different universe so to speak. A more comic book world. The new Batman movies are more like if Batman existed in our world. When you look at it like that, the two movies become that, two separate movies. Think of it as parallel dimensions.
Apoc4all - 4/3/2009, 4:41 PM
Thank you, Shaman, for a very well written piece! Standing O!

Actors that really enjoy their character, like Hugh Jackman, and give that extra effort certainly deserve our support and encouragement, the same as directors and screenwriters that really understand and appreciate what makes the characters interesting in the first place.
comicb00kguy - 4/3/2009, 4:47 PM
Very true despite the fact that Burton admitted to not ever reading a comic book before making Batman.

Plus I think that Burton's image of Gotham is the best!
castle4punisher - 4/3/2009, 4:51 PM
The writers and directors need to care as well.If no one but the actors give a crap it will still be terrible.Hopefully since Kenneth Branagh seems to care about Thor he will look for other people who care about the character.
moonman - 4/3/2009, 5:43 PM
Whats up guys, been looking at articles on this site for a while and finally decided to get an account. On the Keaton not returning as Batman issue, i saw an interview with him a few years back, and while i don't remember an exact quote he basically said he read the scripts for the first two movies and liked them and liked where they were going. Then he received the script for Batman Forever and didn't care for it so passed on the part. Don't blame him, while the movie was cool when i was 12, looking back it sucks pretty hard.
Grizzly - 4/3/2009, 6:19 PM
I'm not sure i totally agree with the part about Christian Bale. He said when he got the part that he wouldn't even do interviews about Batman with his british accent because the Batman character was so American and he didn't want to disrespect that. I, personally, can also see his love for that character in the way he portrays him, anyways
Gannbit out!
Gannbit - 4/3/2009, 7:44 PM
I liked Tom Jane as Punisher best. I thought he played the part well and I liked the movie. This new Punisher was IMHO, with all respect, crappy. I couldnt even finish watching it nor could my husband. I couldnt get into it and I couldnt believe Dominic as an Italian mafioso.. & that Punisher guy was ehhhh... it just wasnt good for me. Definitely liked the first one alot better.

I recall an interview by Michael Keaton saying he didnt want to be Batman anymore cuz the villians were getting all the hype like Catwoman.

I think Christian Bale is good Batman. I think he cares. For someone too put so much time and effort would have too. It would come across in his performance like say..Nick Cage in these last few movies...I think he is great actor but lately seems as though he is just skating by like in National Treasure, Ghost Rider.
KeepItReal - 4/4/2009, 12:48 AM
Shaman I always agree with a lot of the things u say. but i just have to disagree with one thing: Christian Bale WAS AN AWESOME BATMAN. I dont know why u didn't like his performance but I personally think he portrayed Bruce Wayne flawlessly.
O and u forgot to mention Eduard Norton! That man LOVED being Bruce Banner and loved being able to put in his thoughts and ideas on one of the GREATEST Superhero movies ever: The Incredible Hulk.
SolidSnake910 - 4/4/2009, 12:54 AM
@Zinext: Normally I laugh when people propose Micheal Jai White for any role, but I think he is the perfect kind of over the top actor to play Bishop and his over the top attitude. Rosario Dawson would make a great Storm (Thank Shaman for that pick)

@Shaman: Sorry I didn't comment earlier. Personal business interfered momentarily, nuff said. You are dead on about many things. While Bale doesn't have the enthusiasm some others do at playing the character, he does have the dedication, which can oft be just as great. Until now I never really understood what everyone hated in Halle Berry as Storm. She was never perfect for me but she fit the bill decent enough. Maybe it was your choice of words, I dunno, but I agree totally, there was a vacancy in her performances. I do remember an interview with her before X2 hit theaters, in which she stated she wanted the studio to portray more the African warrior goddess aspect and that it was the studio who didn't want the accent. Nonetheless, her performance, whether from spite or disinterest, is lackluster at best.
And by God, if there is no other reason to see the Wolvie movie it would be for the performances and portrayals. We all know how much Hugh loves and respects the character. He knows it's the role that made him a household name, and the fact that he hasn't developed a sort of 'holier-than-thou' complex in an attempt to 'evolve' as an actor speaks volumes of this man to me. Imagine the humility he possess. He is one of the few actor/actress' in Hollywood I would actually care to meet. Liev delivers every line masterfully. While I confess he isn't what we completely desire visually for the role of Sabertooth, few actors could make you feel the genuine sadistic nature of Victor Creed. Any flaws anyone may see should be attributed to the studio, director, writers, etc... Liev did his part magnificently. I said it in my review, Taylor Kitsch does a great job as Gambit... and that means alot coming from me as he is my favorite Super of all time. I concede that his accent should be thicker, but it is present and he conveys it authentically. They gave nothing less than I expected in terms of demonstrating Remy's power, agility, and proficiency for combat. Kitsch captures the choreography as though he'd been practicing his entire life. He is a natural athlete, clearly. I know how many are skeptical about the rapper, Will-I-Am(or whatever). Don't be, he has a fair amount of screen time and holds his own quite well. Something I think many will be impressed with is Kevin Durand as Blob. He is very memorable and holds a measure of humor that is well accepted. Talk about humor, Reynolds is damn near Oscar worthy in terms of dead on portrayals in the beginning of the film. I truly cannot tell you how well he captures Deadpool's sense of humor. I wish he had more screen time. I'm sure the extra footage filmed a few months ago will rectify that. Honestly, I never really thought Daedpool deserved a solo endeavor, but if Reynolds plays him, I am 150% with it.

Shaman, thanks so much for helping to put positive information about this movie out. So many people that watched the leaked version just don't understand how premature it was and how damaging their words can be. From what I saw, I have nothing but excitement stored for whatever the finished product is. Now, I see a few people have taken some of your words in this article out of context. As I'm sure I've said enough, I'm sure you'll correct them with better manners than I might exercise.
TheMyth - 4/4/2009, 12:57 AM
Apoc4all .."I agree with the majority of what you've said, however, I think you are mistaken on your opinion of Storm. Whatever you feel about Halle Berry (whom personally I love), Storm is not a mere "supporting" character. In the comics she was next in line for taking over after Cyclops."

Well said, I agree Storm was not a supporting character.
KeepItReal - 4/4/2009, 1:32 AM
same thing needs to be said bout brandon routh... he didn't go very far with his superman, he lacked the last 10-20 miles... (not that the smallville-guy would've done a better job).
livinglessordinary - 4/4/2009, 1:36 AM
Bra-vo!

People should stop being so whiny about everything. You know hy I'm going to go see this in the theater? Because it's a summer blockbuster. Summer blockbusters are meant to most importantly ENTERTAIN. Transformers, Independence Day, Men In Black 2 all of those were terrible films but we enjoyed them because of the massive budgets and cool effects. SUMMER BLOCKBUSTERS = ENTERTAINMENT. And you know what else is meant to be entertainment? MOVIES!!!
TeenIdol - 4/4/2009, 3:02 AM
I call BS. I was with you at first, but when you hit the Batman section the article fell apart. I'm sorry, but Keaton didn't take the part anymore serious than Bale. Keaton wasn't that in to it in fact I have an interview of him where he says he wasn't that big a fan of comics or the character. The only reason he joined the cast was because Tim Burton told him to and he was Tim's current golden boy. To be honest I think Bale is fairly passionate. Some one else pointed out the american accent thing so I'll point out how well versed he is. In every interview he talks about the character with passion and such depth that it's amazing. Quized right now I bet you Keaton couldn't tell you hardly anything about Batman other than the basic back story. Bale truly understands the character his personality and motivations.
stupify_me - 4/4/2009, 5:25 AM
Nope sorry, disagree. I won't be an apologist, and I won't compromise on this.

There's something really important that you people don't seem to realize. That is that the story of Wolverine's life is VERY interesting. It's a tale FULL of drama and dread and triumph, and discovery , and failure, and betrayal and violence...

You comic nooobs just have no idea what a sorry, pale representation this turned into. If the spoilers I read from people who saw the bootleg are true, then this thing might even be as bad as Catwoman. I mean they screwed up BIIIIIIIIIIIG

Just look at all the garbage this Studio has done! Look at X men 3!! The Phoenix Saga used to be revered as one of the greatest comic book stories of all time, but now generation Y, Z and then generation nothing will never know about that because all they have ever seen is this trash!
Look! Here's the real deal! If they are going to make a move about a marvel comic character, then they need to do one of two things: tell the story RIGHT, as close to the original as possible, OR if they are going to change it they need to improve upon it in some way, and that's THAT!
Anyway I am goign to see it, but not on opening weekend. Maybe the next weekend on a matinee. But you know what???? I watched Iron Man 4 times! I was there for the midnight show on the first opening! I bought a DVD! I bought T shirts! I made my wife and friends see it! You know why? Because THAT MOVIE DESERVED IT!! This movie doesn't deserve anything but a middle finger and half an angry afterthought at best!

I have been a Marvel reader for OVER 20 YEARS and i am going to stand by what is right!! FOX STUDIOS! SUCK IT!!!
Juggernaut - 4/4/2009, 5:45 AM
Good aricle dude..dont agree on Bale vs Keaton, but thats just personal taste..they were both great i thought.

Jane was a great Punisher..whatever the fanboys may think..that new Warzone movie was puke.

Tyler Mane sucked as Sabertooth..it was a combination of having an underwritten role, hardly any dialogue..and the fact that hes a terrible actor!

And i will be seeing Wolverine opening night regardless of any reviews
RorMachine - 4/4/2009, 9:34 AM
WELL DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! very good sir. and in regards to Keaton i donno if anyone has said this or not but im pretty sure i read that they wanted someone new for batman both Keaton and Burton actully wanted to continue on with batman. but that doesnt matter what you said is very true man its just like Ledger and The Joker..

CHEERS
Mankind - 4/4/2009, 10:26 AM
After all the hype Gavin Hood this, Hugh Jackman that, this film is nothing but just another action movie where you don't give a damn about any of the other characters just as long as you can see the star blow s**t up. Anybody going into this film thinking that they're going to see a faithful adaption of the graphic novels is going to be very dissapointed, just a few points:

1) Why was he considered the best at what he does when he doesn't really do anything?

2) Him and sabertooth as brothers, CORNY or what, you know, it's that good guy bad guy thing.

3) No explanation as to why the government want's human weapons.

4) No horrific experimental scenes al la X1 which would no doubt contribute to his violent nature making the viewer sympathise with the pain and suffering he would of endured.

5) whereas X1 was dark in mood, this film is clearly family entertainment light.

6) You don't care about the characters in the film.

7) `If only you knew what type of a man you were... William Stryker= X2) Well what type of a man was he? The film doesn't explain.

8) For someone who is supposed to be the ultimate killing machine, Wolverine sure does make some corny ass excuses for not killing his enemies.

9) The ending should of been 2 against 1 as you'll soon see.

10) I'm willing to bet that what you see is more or less what you get give or take a few effects added, inserted scenes, edited scenes and so on and so forth.

CONCLUSION: I don,t want to get into all the finger pointing stuff, you know, it was so and so's fault that the film came out mediocre... I do like Hugh Jackman, he is not only a good actor, but he seems to be a genuinely nice person who means well. BUT I'm beginning to wonder if people who have not been brought up in the comic book world should be tackling the comic book film adaption and that perhaps the 1st 2 xmen, spiderman, and Iron man were nothing but flukes, right directors with the right screen writers at the right time. Sooner or later the general public are going to get fed up with superhero films because rather than faithfully adapt the comic medium to the big screen, too many compromises are made resulting in just another action movie.

CHAS65 - 4/4/2009, 1:02 PM
rorschach i agree with you alot man with everything you said but i will elaborate but i think keaton made a good bats but a horrible horrible bruce wayne. looking at keaton wouldnt make me think wow! this guy is a crazy playboy who gets women everywhere left and right. not the only women he sees are in his mind's eye while USING his left and right. kim basinger and keaton no way shes way way too hot for him and pfieffer blows her away
dellamorte1872 - 4/4/2009, 1:06 PM
You know I love christian bale as my batman, and I love tomas Jane as my punisher....I feel really bad for Hugh jackman...if I am going to see the movie in theatres, its because I am honored to call him wolverine...or OUR WOLVERINE.

FOX CAN STILL GO F*CK THEMSELVES. They need to stop rushing the crew, and directors.

@ Shaman
I beliebe Christian Bale WANTED to play the role, as in he was/and still is passionate about it. Or else why would he still WANT to do batman 3? I mean yeah the guy can be a DIVA at times, but thats what happens when you go into chracter, and some DP walks in on your scene. Specially when you told that DP several times NOT TO WALK in your scene. So I cant hold that against Bale. I admire his work, and he has made any shitty movies yet, and from what I've heard from ym friends in the SAG hes actually NICE off set. And not the douche he is when hes down to business and work. HE IS PROFESSIONAL lol...takes his WORK VERY SERIOUSLY [Sarcasm]....

I suppose when I do go see this movie...I will be rooting on Deadpool's spinoff at the last 10 minutes [which is the best part of this filick anyhow]
Aiiwolf - 4/4/2009, 5:04 PM
Dude, if they had Bishop in the Xmen trilogy...I would of loved to see him accidently shoot Professor Xavier in the head. lmfao...like in the current comics lmfao.
Aiiwolf - 4/4/2009, 6:30 PM
Well guys, of course i won't be able to reply to everyone but i will elaborare a bit :) Thanks for the cudos again from everybody, it means alot to me to know that most of us are on the same page which has to do with Actors enthusiasm driven by appreciation.

As for Keaton vs. Bale, it really boils down to personnal taste. Bale is SPECTACULAR as Batman as i have always said and anyone that thought different simply misinterpreted my words. What i said was Keaton was better IMHO. And it has nothing to do with "how much" they've previously read of the character. I for one have been a fan of Batman way before i was even able to read. Do i own every copy of every comic relating to the bat? Hell no! Hugh Jackman himself admitted not reading the x-comics until a short time before he auditionned. But he fell in LOVE with the character. And i remember an interview with Keaton on how he loved Burton's interpretation of the character and was very excitted to play the role. Bale's portrayal of Bruce Wayne is fake, meaning that you can litterally see just how it's not his true personnality. In fact, i suspect him doing it on purpose to give the character the illusion of having more the one personnality. Well the truth is, from everything i've understood about batman since my birth is that Bruce has created a second personnality which is Batman. And through the ages, that personnality has tried to engulf that character whole. But Bruce has always had a strong will and was always able to control his personnalities. Bruce was never "the mask", Batman was. But Bale plays Bruce as if he was litterally putting a mask on and that's where I FEEL IMHO, that he doesn't connect with what i know of the character and why i honnestly feel that Keaton was better. Keaton had natural CHARM when he was Bruce just as he's supposed to. The way he approached Vale and Kyle is exactly as i would picture the Bruce Wayne i know doing it. He understood the character much better in my opinion. All you hear about in Bale's interviews is how he pictures Batman, well that's just half the character. Keaton was the only one so far to DRASTICALLY change when he put on the mask. You could litterally see how he was able to play two very different characters in one. That's the way it's supposed to be IMO. I do very much enjoy Bale's version do not get me wrong here but seriously, it's not a crime to notice just how much better Keaton was. of course, it all comes down to personnal taste, if you don't give a [frick] about Bruce and are mostly into Batman, well of course you'll feel that Bale was the best and there's no harm in that, to each's own.

Here's a simple breakdown of what i think was the ISSUE with the past Batmen:

Adam West: ...I'm not going there LOL :P
Keaton: Brilliant Bruce, and incredible transition to the Bat.
Val Kilmer: emotionless robot who didn't understand the first thing about what he was doing. FAIL!!!
Clooney: Very good Bruce Wayne, idiot forgot to close the "Bruce Switch" when he put on the mask. FAIL!!!
Bale: Astounding Batman, but IMHO doesn't quite "get" Bruce Wayne. Not a fail, just not the best we've seen.

As for Storm, i seem to have struck a nerve. Do you guys know of anyone that buys STORM comics, has Storm posters on their walls, LOVED berry's interpretation actually screamed of joy at the phrase "Do you know what happens to a frog that get's hit by lightning?", where T-Shirts of Storm, Has Storm on their Desktop Wallpapers, is holding on to the copy of the x-comics that delved a bit deeper in her origins as if it was the freakin' bible... anybody? Reguardless of previous dilemas she might have gone through in the comics, reguardless of just how high she is in the chain of command in the X-men, she always was a supporting character. If not Marvel has totally FAILLED to pass her off as a leading one! Do not get me wrong here again, i do not in any way dislike her. I just see things how they are. I've always been a big fan of BABYLON 5 but as much as i love Lt. Commander Susan Ivanova, i can clearly see how she's a supporting character even though she is second in command of the base. Yes ZiNext you're right in saying that Storm does have some importance but i feel that in the first two x-movies, they splendidly showed the character we were accustommed to along with her importance in the team. X-3, they whent over the top with her because Berry was about to jump ship. That destroyed a major part in the movie IMHO.

CaptainAmerica- I've never seen the leaked movie. I whent by TheMyth's review of it as i was quite clear on that. I do appologise for not putting up a "spoiler warning" but since that version was unfinished and there were "re-shoots" which don't appear in the film, not to mention that i also assumed that everyone had learned one way or another about deadpool's outcome, i wrongly didn't think twice of writing that bit.

TheMyth- You're quite welcome and thanks for putting up your comment but it was because of you that i wrote this. You amongst others new how i felt about what we had learned and what we're my intentions. YOU turned me around single handedly and that's why i'm forever greatfull that the movie was leaked and that YOU we're able to see it for all of us who couldn't. You took one for the team and i commend you on that!!! Thanks Myth :))
Shaman - 4/5/2009, 8:22 AM
lol i didnt know his head was [frick]ing chopped off lol i r sad :(
CaptainAmerica - 4/5/2009, 10:30 AM
Interesting article: Keaton or Bale I'll take Bale but you do make good points I just personally like Bale BETTER. Chris Reeves as Superman\Clart Kent his Superman was weak and CK was some clumsy,clueless,CORNY,buttsuck the CK I remeber reading in the comics didnt come across like that to me. So far they havent gotten Superman right yet.....maybe the cartoon versions. I'd rather have Routh over Reeves I beleieve Superman Returns was jacked-up because of Bryan "sweet cheeks" Singer making a LOVE STORY. He seem to be more concern with how goodlooking he thought Routh was than giving ROUTH good material to work with. So far to me Hugh Jackman,Robert Downey Jr,Wesley Snipes,Micheal Jai White,Christian Bale,Thomas Jane,and Toby Maguire(Maguire I dont really like much)has given life and a good or great preformance for these comic book characters wolverine,ironman,blade,spawn,batman,punisher,andspiderman.
BLADE4040 - 4/5/2009, 11:44 AM
I like both Keaton and Bale, i will agree with you Shaman on the charm factor that Keaton had. Bale on the other hand is generally just an asshole as Bruce Wayne, but i think its an interesting take on the character. If i was a billion dollar playboy who could have anything i wanted, had seen my parents gunned down, had traveled to the far side of the world to learn martial arts, and hardly got any sleep because i was out all night saving a city that didnt even care for me, id be an asshole as well. Also totally agree on Thomas Jane, i thought he was a great Frank Castle. Might not have been the best movie, but still a favorite of mine as far as comic book movies go.
Grizzly - 4/5/2009, 7:06 PM
@Frank Garret
I agree with you for the most part. Acting really trumps anything else that an actor has to offer, even though they may make up for it elsewhere.

But in Wolverine, you're dealing with a very different cast of characters. Batman and Superman and the Joker have transcended comics and are immortalized as part of American culture. For them, we need someone with the acting chops to bring them to the screen rather then someone who's very meticulous about their comic book legacy. Otherwise, you rick alienating the rest of the audience (i.e. people who grew up as fans of the tv shows or the movies rather than comic books). However, characters like Gambit, Deadpool, and even Wolverine are less iconic. These characters hardly exist outside of their comic book mythos. Actors need to be seriously devoted to them. They need to treat the fans to a truly faithful adaptation while helping the newcomers experience what made them fall in love with the character they're playing. It takes more than a good actor for that.
2leftarms - 4/5/2009, 7:41 PM
As always Shaman, you and myself see eye to eye. I agree the ACTORS will do a great job. It's companies like FOX that screw over thier performances with bad script and retarded plot points. I will go see it. I will probably love the characters. But then I pretty sure I'm gonna cringe at the story.
iNsaneMilesy - 4/5/2009, 10:44 PM
Well put, Milesy.
2leftarms - 4/5/2009, 10:58 PM
CaptainAmerica- Yeah, sorry about that... Hopefully the re-shoots had to do with fixing that miss-hap!

BLADE4040- Very good point about Singer, which is why i made sure to say that my comment was for every vantage point on set. It is very important that EVERYONE "gets" the characters at play. Singer saw Superman as $$$ and wanted to pay homage to Donner... but WHY?!?!?! He didn't get the character either!!! They should have gotten a director that actually was familiar with the comics and cartoons to begin with. Superman Returns IMHO, was a highly enjoyable adrenalyne rush with great FX worthy of Superman BUT... the script was majorly lacking and so was Routh's performance. But since EVERYONE's performances were lacking, i can't help but wonder if it was Routh's fault or not. Could it be that Singer MADE him act badly and didn't leave Routh any room for interpretation or improv? He did look and sound like a REEVES clone. Or was Routh a bad actor to begin with? I don't think Routh though of being Reeves's clone by himself especially after seeing just how brilliantly Dean Cain and Tom Welling have portrayed the same character differently. Could Welling have done a better job or would Singer have screwed even him up? It is such a gray area that i believe we can't judge Routh for the single solitary film he did. We would need a drastic change of character and leave Routh to try to render it justice. Unfortunitally, i'm tired of WB's "trial and error" films. They TOTALLY AND ACURATELY LANDED Superman in the cartoon. Why not take THAT character and put him on screen??? Hell they even came up with my favorite version of Lex!!! But i guess there's just no way of knowing until they pull out they're new project. And i also agree with you that Wesley Snipes was also very awesome and very very ENTHUSIASTIC about BLADE which made the first two movies a success IMHO.

Grizzly- I guess it explains just how much perception is relative. I've always felt that his parents's death was the very FACTOR that prevented him from becoming a spoiled billion dollar playboy. I felt it actually "grounded" him even more making him have "bigger fish to fry" than to spend money on girls and buy hotels in which these "whores" took the lobey fountains for a swimming pool. Bruce Wayne was never the "average" playboy, he was always a very mature "charmer" yet very business oriented. He would have never wasted time playing office golf with a secretary while his business is badly run and he didn't even care if he had a say in it (that's more up Tony Stark's alley LOL). I hate to say it but... this is actually where Val Kilmer's Bruce Wayne won a point! That Bruce was in on EVERYTHING!!! And that's how it should be. Bruce has always been involved in his enterprise and has also always been a "spokesperson" for it. Bale's Bruce is just... A millionaire that sleeps all day, is Batman all night and when he's in public, he's the perfect asshole. It's not a BAD take on the character but in my opinion, it's just not the best. In some scenes, it actually leaves an aftertaste i find. I feel like i'm watching the "movie" as if i was his father from beyong the grave... and i just can't seem to find anything he does that would make me proud of my son. But maybe Nolan and Bale are "building" the character to BECOME the Bruce we've all known and loved through the ages. Here's hoping :)

2leftarms- You are right. Frank does bring a good point... but just imagine if that insanely talented actor was just as enthusiastic as Hugh Jackman. It would just add even more! I agree with Frank in saying that it's not "necessary" for a talented actor such as Bale to bring as much enthusiasm to the set as Hugh but no one here can PROVE that it WOULDN'T add that much more "Umph"! The result would be that much more astounding!!! And you are also correct in your comparisson of Marvel's heroes versus DC's (aside from spiderman of course).

iNsaneMilesy- Thanks for the comment :) And i guess the only thing we can do is go see it with the hope that the characters will overcome the lack that the script brings. IMO, i felt like X-3 wasn't that bad of a film. It falls in the same category as Superman Returns but for different reasons. SR was saved by the effects while X-3 was saved by the characters such as Beast, Logan, Iceman, Kitty Pride, Magneto (yet again), Charles and even though Pheonix was watered down, i still enjoyed Jean. And the way that Scott was psychologically destroyed and obsessed with Jean's death was enjoyable too. Even though they obviously were'nt acurate, the characters were still enjoyable. But that also boils down to personal taste.
Shaman - 4/6/2009, 6:25 AM
I havent read every post here but i gotta say i agree with everything Juggernaut, Chas65 and Aiiwolf has said. No need to repost stuff coz ill say the same things they did...

and that's not a subjective point of view but rather, an objective one.

Marvel, please get your characters and stories back from Fox.
JamesH - 4/6/2009, 8:47 AM
If only they could JamesH, if only they could :))
Shaman - 4/6/2009, 9:46 AM
just wanted to say that i hated Storm in the X-men movies berry did a horrible job and she should be shot for her portyal of both storm and catwoman. Storm for one had an African accent!!!!! and was still second leader to the x-men. hell in X3 when cyclops gets lost (yes lost because they don't show a body only his sunglasses) storm doesn't take command of the X-men who did logan everybody knows that Storm should have taken command. and the whole batman issue i think keaton and bale were the best batmen keaton for his portyal of Bruce wayne and bale for his as the dark knight. and i will say this much the worst batman every was Clooney. i mean i see him more as a funny man than a dramtic actor only becuase of O' brother where art thou.
dogchasingcars - 4/6/2009, 11:02 AM
Yeah, he was all wrong for that role. And Val Kilmer looked promissing but totally failed. Not every body can land this particular role like Bale and Keaton did. It's very demanding.
Shaman - 4/6/2009, 11:26 AM
point taken shaman, i agree it will be interesting to see what they do with bruce wayne and batman in the upcoming movie. I just keep thinking to the back and forth between caine and bale when he reminds him of his limits and bale says he has none, maybe in this movie nolan will show us those limits and how they affect both batman and wayne, i mean before the city tolerated him, but now he is public enemy #1. Another thing is in the first movie it showed a lot of the charity work his parents did for the city, like building that railway, and we havnt really seen bale do anything like that since taking over wayne enterprises. that kinda backs up your premise of him being hands off with the company, and with the death of rachel in the last movie i think this could be the thing that "grounds" him as you said, or it might just make him a bigger asshole we'll see. I totally agree on that after taste though, in the first movie when he was a dick to all those ppl at his house, i was pretty shocked, i mean he did it to save their lives but man, think the one guy put it best when he said the apple fell far from the tree
Grizzly - 4/6/2009, 12:24 PM
Yeah i totally agree, what ever they're doing with this character IS shocking yet interesting. Hope we get more Bruce developments in the next one.

I also agree in not "computing" the part in "begins" where he called them all "free-loaders". Even though he was right, to me he didn't look drunk enough to say that. Of course he was "faking" to save they're lives as you said but it would've been more his style to actually start the fire himself and ask everyone to evacuate or something in that fashion. Either way, i thoroughly enjoy these films and can't wait for the next one :))
Shaman - 4/7/2009, 7:28 AM
lol, Shaman, your catching a lot of hell over your critique of Bale as Bats. Now this is where I too may be lashed, but I think Bale is the best Batman we've ever had... and it isn't a very close race either, to me. I agree with alot of your critisism's of the other 'Batmen', you're dead-on about Clooney. You see, Keaton has NEVER in any role he's ever played, made me feel like he could kick my ass, except maybe "Multiplicity", there were quite a few of him, LMAO. Bale on the other hand, would probably put a hurtin' on me. Furthermore, I like his stiffer, more obnoxious Bruce Wayne. Feel's more like he does in the books, always sharp eyed and calculating every person and situation he encounters. Bale feels like a Bruce Wayne on task. Now, to give credit where it's due, Keaton was the only other actor to give us an exceptional Batman. And of course, the Keaton/Bale intimidation issue IS relative and only really applies to me in saying it, but others may feel something of the same.
TheMyth - 4/8/2009, 1:02 PM
Good points but didn't you see Extreme Measures or Pacific Heights??? He was pretty kick ass in those. Good one on the "multiplicity" LOL And don't you feel that regardless what other performances they made, it's how terrifying they look in the suit that matters? To me both of them look like they can kick ass when they have the mask on. Bale's look is more focused into his fierce "glare" where as Keaton's was focused into the lack of "humanity" in his appearence. Both different but IMO, both deliver splendidly :)

And as for Bruce, of course he should always be calculating but above all, IMO he should be charming (which hides perfectly his analitical behaviour in public). Bale simply doesn't lift up my skirt in that department. I guess what "itches" me the most is how "calm" Bale's Bruce always is. I liked how Keaton's Bruce was always "preoccupied" with always something on his mind. It just connected more to me making him look more like a "real" and "human" Bruce instead of a 24/7 FBI agent. Yet again, it is a matter of taste. Either way we look at it, there's as many fans of both of them or else the last two movies would not have known that level of success. I just hope they keep what works and don't drastically change it for something that doesn't!
Shaman - 4/8/2009, 1:37 PM
OMG! Pacific Heights was good! I know someone it happened to almost to a "T" as in the movie. I kept telling my friend to watch the movie it was so similar the situation. Keaton is a very good actor I think. He can do crazy good.

But back to Batman... I dont like Bale as Bruce Wayne. He does Batman good though.
KeepItReal - 4/8/2009, 10:03 PM
I think all of the actors did a fantastic job they handled the characters great but at the end of the day actors performances and fx and music isn’t going to make a movie there like icing on a cake if the story line sucks and sh!t just don’t make sense people are not going to like it the general public wont care but the fans will

I personally like Keaton better but Bale is a close 2nd

And Ving Rhames should play bishop in an x-men movie
wadewilson1 - 4/9/2009, 11:56 AM
Oh yeah Shaman, I'm not saying I don't like him a lot as an acotr, in fact, he is one of those actors... I'll watch a movie just cause he's in it.

CHAS65: When I read your post, I had to wait a while to comment, as I had mixed feelings. In your conclusion you state how you don't think anyone who grew up outside the comicverse should be helming the movie projects. I, as well as most here probably, totally agree with you. But that isn't what we get. I honestly think studios are afraid to let 'fanboys' as they call us, in on the major aspects of the films. We aren't as flexible as the rubber men they find for the jobs.
TheMyth - 4/9/2009, 12:55 PM
Don't know if he'll reply but good point :)
Shaman - 4/14/2009, 7:18 AM
I can't believe you guys are all so willing to bend over and take it like this. Why drink the Fox Kool Aid, when Favreau & co has proven once and for all that we don't have to?
I mean so what if the actors really care? It matters, but not enough to just magically make the movie good. And they didn't care enough to stop the writers from wrecking all out favorite characters. What about that?

You know what the most ironic thing of all is? It's that the life of Wolverine really is a great story. It's amazing actually. Full of amazing drama, and dread and adventure, and quirks and twists of fate. But now, because of Gavin Hood and Fox studios, the world will never know that. This version doesn't measure up in anyway. It's a real shame.
Juggernaut - 4/16/2009, 7:23 AM
Well Howard didn't give a [frick] about playing Rhodey despite what he'll publically admit and it freakin showed!!! As for the original story of Wolverine, Favreau himself took liberties with Ironman's origins. And he did great. That's that for your Favreau comment.

I didn't see the leaked wolverine movie but i do own the "origin" issues and so i'll only comment AFTER seeing the film. It's not because Hood decided to incorporate different characters in the movie, which weren't in the original story that it makes his origin movie not measure up to the comics. So i'll have to wait for it before commenting on that.
Shaman - 4/16/2009, 12:29 PM
You could look at the Origin series like Watchmen. To fit it all in the movie would be 3 weeks long. I think they'vedone the best possible job. I havent seen the bootleg, nor did I intend to. Perhaps you have to look at the movie with the perspective that whats on offer is just the icy on the cake. If Jackman's up for a trilogy, we could be going back and forth with the origin just like in the books. I suppose we have to remember, a House of M event never happened in the films. So if they choose to bring it back to present day and create a new "revelation" incident, we could be subjected to the fact that alot of the plot in the possible "First Wolverine origins" film were implanted memories that never happened. Or have more to them. Theres really no limit to what they can use with the character. And from what I hear, the movie has a hint to Japan. I say, bring it on bub!
iNsaneMilesy - 4/17/2009, 1:37 AM
Amazing Job Shaman!!! And Myth is always on point with his analysis and interpretations. I enjoyed reading it alot and i for one am stoked and thrilled for this movie.


Peace
chris915 - 4/19/2009, 8:38 PM
So am i and like iNsaneMilesy said "bring it on bub"!!!
Shaman - 4/20/2009, 12:11 PM

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