The Avengers, The Dark Knight Rises and The Justice League (A Trilogy)

Will The Dark Knight Rises make The Avengers the second place opening weekend after only 2 months atop the list?

Editorial Opinion
By rcw91 - May 08, 2012 02:05 PM EST
Filed Under: Other

(Disclaimer: As Kevin Smith says, this is a statement made to save one’s own ass. This is only opinion and not meant to start any flame wars. It is merely an interpretation of numbers and using that interpretation to hypothesize an outcome. Other than a few tongue-in-cheek jests, I write this from as objective a postion as I can, despite being a huge Batman fan that also thoroughly enjoyed The Avengers. Any use of terms like “fringe”, “B-list” or “obscure” when describing certain characters is not meant as a slight to those characters. Again, they are merely an interpretation of the numbers available. Also, in hypothesizing, I’ve had to make some guesses with regard to certain calculations, like how much extra money a film generates thanks to 3D, etc. I’m sure you enjoyed reading this disclaimer and marveled at the space I wasted in a fruitless and futile attempt to absolve myself of responsibility for any flame wars this editorial generates. As if that which I write was so important that it could have such a huge impact. I also realize that writing this article and doing the research to write it means I have way too much time on my hands. So there.)

In part 1 of this 3-part editorial, I will examine whether or not The Dark Knight Rises can dethrone The Avengers after just 2 months.

As Joker said in The Dark Knight, “There’s no going back. You’ve changed things. Forever.” That seems to be the best way to describe what The Avengers opening weekend means. From now on, we live in a world where a movie can make at least $200 million domestically in its first weekend of release. And it was a comic book movie that thrust us into that world.

While all comic book fans have their allegiances (I’ve always said I’m not a DC guy, I’m a Batman guy. I get no special joy out of what company logo is on the front of his comics and movies), there is little point in rooting against a comic book movie, any comic book movie. A huge weekend like The Avengers just achieved is a boon for the genre of comic book movies. In fact, the only aspect that could be viewed as a potential negative would be that that bar has been raised yet again and therefore, the expectations are only going to get higher, which can lead to frequent failed attempts to live up to those expectations. But even that is a dubious argument as it is much better to have filmmakers shooting for the moon when they make these films. So failure be damned, keep raising the bar and the expectations.

And with regard to raised expectations, it’s only natural to ask “Will The Dark Knight Rises make The Avengers the second place opening weekend after only 2 months atop list?” and “Will DC finally make a Justice League movie?” Let’s examine the possibilities.

Will The Dark Knight Rises make The Avengers the second place opening weekend after only 2 months atop the list?

The incredible buzz for The Dark Knight Rises notwithstanding, I would think it would be unlikely for the film to top the opening weekend output of The Avengers. I don’t think it can be overstated how much The Avengers has raised the bar. For now, it least, The Avengers will now be the standard by which all tent-pole movies (not just comic book movies) will be measured when it comes to opening weekends. And it may end up doing even more than that. It will be quite a feat if The Dark Knight Rises manages to take the crown. However, it does not look good for that to happen.

I’ll admit, I underestimate the power of Nolan at my own peril (being an acknowledged “Nolanite” myself). But the arithmetic does not support a record breaking opening weekend for The Dark Knight Rises if for no other reason than the additional income 3D generated for The Avengers. Income that will not be generated for The Dark Knight Rises as it was not shot or post-converted in 3D.

This is not a knock against The Avengers or an attempt to minimize the impact of its opening weekend totals. Yes, the 3D inflates the total, but it’s not as if viewers had no choice in the matter. About 40% of those who saw the film on its opening weekend chose the traditional 3D version and were willing to pay the premium to do so. In addition, another %12 chose IMAX 3D or another premium large format 3D. But ultimately, the traditional 3D (or lack thereof) will probably be the biggest difference when tabulating the totals of both films’ opening weekends.

Both films benefited or will benefit from IMAX and other premium large formats, but those only account (or will account) for about 10% of the grosses. But traditional 3D probably accounted for somewhere between $20 and $25 million in additional ticket revenue for The Avengers (that figure is an estimate based on the tendency for traditional 3D ticket prices to be about 40% more in cost that 2D presentation. For example, a 2D ticket may cost $10 whereas a 3D ticket would cost $14 resulting in an additional $4 in ticket revenue. The key is that it’s additional ticket revenue not the cost of a 3D ticket). So, even if The Dark Knight Rises sells the same number of tickets overall as The Avengers did, which is not an unlikely scenario, it will not benefit from those 3D fees. But, again, it is the prerogative of the studios and the filmmakers as to whether or not to offer that option to the viewers and the viewers’ choice as to whether or not to pay that premium.

In the end, the money made is the money made and The Avengers earned every penny of it. Harry Potter, on the other hand…well…that, of course, doesn’t count. Feel free to minimize it all you want. (Joke. Sort of.)

Now, I am not a professional prognosticator, but I would expect that The Dark Knight Rises would open at around $175-180 million. I reach that conclusion by speculating that it will probably sell the same (or similar) number of tickets as The Avengers but will not have the additional 3D income. The buzz is already high for the film and will only get louder as we close in on July 20, so I anticipate it will give The Avengers a stiff challenge when it comes to attendance. However, I don’t think it will be able to hit $207 million in its opening weekend. But it could surprise me. He is Batman, after all. (This is where Nolanites and DC die-hards point out that it took an entire team of super-heroes to bring down Batman. After that, the anti-Nolanites must point out that Batman is lame and won’t have the death of a cast member to boost box office results this time. Anybody else think Nolanites vs. Anti-Nolanites sounds like a good comic book movie? Yeah, um, me neither.)

Regardless, The Avengers has indeed changed the game. It is nothing less than a seismic shift in the future of comic book movies.

If there is a film on the docket that will immediately challenge The Avengers, it is The Dark Knight Rises. The Amazing Spider-Man certainly has a marquee character that has a proven track record at the box office, but a match-up between a reboot and a highly anticipated conclusion to a critically lauded and financially stout trilogy is not much of a match-up. If The Dark Knight Rises fails to dethrone The Avengers, the next contender is probably The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey. After that, you probably have to look well into 2013 for the next contender to step up. (Sorry, vamp fans, but if history is any indicator, Breaking Dawn, Part 2 isn’t going to challenge it.) Because of The Avengers’ popularity, Iron Man 3 could very well be in a position to capitalize on it and challenge for the crown. I would bet that the impact of 3D on The Avengers’ bottom line will further influence Marvel to give the same treatment to Iron Man 3. After that, however, the next serious challenger would probably be Catching Fire in November of 2013, after The Hunger Games has done so exceedingly well (sorry, Superman fans).

The Avengers has made the mountain an even higher one to climb.

In part 2, I will elaborate on whether or not a Justice League film would even work as well as The Avengers did.

For more information on box office results, I recommend boxofficemojo.com.

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Thanos005
Thanos005 - 5/8/2012, 3:08 PM
An Nolanite who doesn't bash every other movie ever simply for existing? You my friend, are a unicorn. But all jokes aside, a positive that TDKR has is that it will be actually in Summer, while Avengers was somewhat in spring, so many people were still in school, and couldn't miss their friday classes and it is about that time for finals so maybe some are waiting until they are done with school altogether until they see it. I conceivably see TDKR smashing the midnight ticket sales, but the whole weekend? doubtful.
theplotmaster
theplotmaster - 5/8/2012, 3:55 PM
while I do thumbs up your article , you have to be insane to think that the dark knight wont break this record no one saw the dark knight becoming the highest grossing comic book movie of all time but yet it is, now with the conclusion on its way there is no way that each one of those avenger fans won't see this movie, even if you hate a plot you have to see how it ends, take it from the master TDKR will break this record and out due the dark knight itself
antonio
antonio - 5/8/2012, 4:08 PM
Excellent article. I see TDKR topping Harry Potter's midnight record, but Avengers opening? I'm on the fence about that.
95
95 - 5/8/2012, 4:37 PM
The Dark Knight Rises will wipe out The Avengers record-breaking feats. This another film from the global brand that is Christopher Nolan. Batman is still the most popular superheroes-- one of the most popular characters of all time. This film accomplished a technical feat with an hour of IMAX. Recent trailer garnered impressive views in 24 hours, despite The Avengers marketing blitz holding most people's attention. Industry professionals have confessed to being excited for this film over all. Warner Brothers hasn't even begun promotional on this film. But it will-- and it will be overwhelming.

I'm not trying to sound pretentious about this-- but The Avengers' success is a truly astonishing feat-- however, lest not forget that Batman and Nolan is an equally impressive box office force. If anything were to beat The Dark Knight Rises though, it would be The Avengers.
TonyChu
TonyChu - 5/8/2012, 5:45 PM
The only way I can see TDKR beating out the Avengers is by having one of the best marketing strategies in cinematic history. I mean have [frick]ing bat signals in every major city across the world during opening week or better yet during the NBA Finals have a commercial where Bane interrupts the broadcast and talks about taking control of Gotham. They have to make sure that their tv spots are top notch and promote the hell out of the movie on Cartoon Network, like Disney Channel did with The Avengers, doing that your securing a large amount of kids going to see it with mommy and daddy. Also the movie must be better than TDK if not better. There is already been some buzz that TDKR does triumph over its predecessor and hopefully that is true. Now can it make Avengers opening weekend, maybe. Take in mind that this is the final installment of a critically acclaimed and financial franchise and people and critics love Nolan's work. I expect tremendous numbers from TDKR, maybe 800-900 mill but Avengers look like a guaranteed billion.
RMCarpenter
RMCarpenter - 5/8/2012, 6:40 PM
No chance. TDKR will be huge, and deservedly so, but Avengers is monumental. This is going to be an all-time great summer for movies, and at the end, Earth's Mightiest Heroes will stand triumphant.
LoudNoises
LoudNoises - 5/8/2012, 7:31 PM
We will have a better idea of what TDKR will do in regards to breaking any box office records once the marketing starts picking up. If the reviews start coming out early enough and they are out of this world amazing people may have second thoughts as to whether it has any chance of toppling the Avengers. It doesn't really concern me that much whether or not it does anyways. I just want it to be jaw dropping. And the standing ovation TDKR received during a early rough cut of the film gives me a very good vibe that it will be just as ground breaking as TDK if not more. Call it wishful thinking, but it's hard to imagine how a studio could give Nolan 250-300 million dollar budget and not get something incredible in return. He made Momento with less than 10 million. Don't count TDKR out completely.
LoudNoises
LoudNoises - 5/8/2012, 7:38 PM
Oh, and very nice write up by the way. Very well written!
SonnyCrockett
SonnyCrockett - 5/8/2012, 7:53 PM
"Sorry Superman fans?!"
What a weinie. Wait till The Man Of Steel opens and shows you why Superman doesn't NEED a Justice League or an Avengers (GREAT film by the way). You arrogant, condescending sod......I CANNOT believe you wrote that.
Love,
Sonny Crockett
Zarog
Zarog - 5/8/2012, 8:29 PM
Hopefully the script given to Zack Snyder is good. If the script's good, Snyder will carry it the rest of the way with ease. Great director that gets hate for no reason.
rcw91
rcw91 - 5/8/2012, 9:05 PM
Wasn't going to do this but, SonnyCrockett, where in my post did I say that Man of Steel was going to suck and was going to be the worst movie ever? That seems to be what you've taken away from it. I'm simply predicting it won't break any records (albeit in a tongue-in-cheek manner). I am a Superman fan and I believe with Nolan, Goyer and Snyder at the helm, they're on the right track. I think it will be successful. I have no reason to root against it. As I stated in the editorial, rooting against any comic book movie is pointless much less rooting against one that I'm looking forward to seeing. Predicting that it won't break records is not arrogant.

Oh, and this is the correct spelling of weenie.
larsbear947
larsbear947 - 5/9/2012, 7:24 AM
I think he's probably right. TDKR will do remarkably well, I don't think there's any question of that, and it will be a really great film, if we can extrapolate from Nolan's previous successes. However, the question of whether it will be able to match the opening weekend record set by The Avengers comes down to simple math, as the author points out. It's questionable whether it will physically be capable of hitting that number. There are a finite number of screens in the country, and a finite number of showings that can be squeezed in to a day, and if the movie does not have the benefit of additional fees for premiums like 3D or Imax 3D, even if it sells the same number of tickets, or even a bit more, it still won't be able to hit The Avengers numbers. That's not a reflection of the movie not being any better than The Avengers, it's just math.
TheDetectiveComicRises
TheDetectiveComicRises - 5/9/2012, 7:54 AM
It will be very very interesting but I know this if there is any character out there today that can do it it is The Caped Crusader himself Batman. I mean it is inheriting after the most successful movie sequel to date in any genre "The Dark Knight" & today Batman is hotter than ever & people have been waiting for this film for four years plus Batman is hotter than he was 4 years ago around this time.

Even if it doesn't open as big that no shame because it will have a long box office run, it is in IMAX, Nolan has lot's of cred, Bale sales movies well, it has Morgan Freemen, Michael Caine, Anne Hathaway, Gorden-Livit because people luv those actors & U gotta remember how much foreign attention it will grab with the like of Nolan, Bale, Oldman, legends like Cain & Freeman & up & coming huge star life Tom Hardy and Marion Cotillard all of the actors sale movies to so many different age ranges combine & it is Batman & Batman sales huge also.

Also remember if & I truly believe it will be nominated for multiple academy awards it will run again at the box office, So TDKR can actually pull out and be the biggest money maker of the year but hey it's no guarantee but as long as the movie is great & successful that's what counts I mean money has much to do with it but not every thing & as Joss Whedon said no matter what TDKR does it's opening weekend what matters & is for certain I will buy a ticket & be there :)
Jadotch
Jadotch - 5/9/2012, 11:18 AM
I think the Dark Knight Rises will not have as big of opening. I think it will be a better movie, but not make as much money. It has nothing to do with 3D.

1)The elephant in the room. A lot of the hype from Dark Knight was Ledgers death and his brilliant performance.

2)It will not be as popcorn esq as the Avengers. Light hearted movies tend to do better, not always, but a lot of the time.

3) The Avengers has a wider appeal. If you just like anyone of the Avengers, you are going to go see the movie. It doesn't matter that other characters you are not particularly fond of are in it. It is a sequel to all the Marvel movies, and capturing an audience which they could not with a singular character.

4) The female audeince. The Avengers has a lot of eye candy if you are into guys.

5) Competition. The Avengers did not have any. Well Hunger Games which opened in MARCH, and Think Like a Man. (Is that even a real movie?) Will the Dark Knight Rises will be catching the tail end of Spidey

I maybe wrong, Nolan has some pull, and that Batman is ending can play into it, however the Avenger's stars aligned. Like I said, I think Batman will be a better movie, but Avengers will be the king of the box office.
Minotauro
Minotauro - 5/9/2012, 11:54 AM
@Jadotch - Alot fans have already said a millions times that Ledgers death didn't contribute to anything. It was a his once in a lifetime performance that did. Get the facts writen down.

Second, Batman is batman, so I don't know how he doesn't have an appeal?

Jadotch
Jadotch - 5/9/2012, 12:20 PM
@Minotauro, I don't care how many people have said it, it does not make it fact. The key word is 'fans'. They are different from the average movie goer. Ledgers death definately did not hurt sales. I am sure it played some part in the profits of the Dark Knight. It did build a buzz. People who did not see Batman Begins saw the Dark Knight. (I still run into them!) Was it just Ledgers death, NO! But Nirvana was big before Kurt Cobains death as well.

Batman has tons of appeal! But does he have as much as Iron Man, Captian America, Thor, and the Hulk combined? Going back to the Dark Knight, the Joker is THE Batman villian. Bane on the other hand is not nearly as know as the Joker. Catwoman? A classic yes, but she is not Joker.
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