Movie Magic Case Study #3: Richard Donner vs. Sam Raimi

Movie Magic Case Study #3: Richard Donner vs. Sam Raimi

Two director greats, responsible for bringing Marvel's and DC's respective iconic characters to life. Read more to learn who the studios originally wanted to direct their films and how each film would differ if the other was directing. Vote for who's movie magic makes you go all tingly inside!

Editorial Opinion
By MarkJulian - Jun 25, 2011 06:06 PM EST
Filed Under: Other

   The world of comic book movies owes a lot to the two directors I'm preparing to analyze in this latest installment of Movie Magic Case Studies. One of these men is the directorial godfather of modern comic book movies. The other is credited with revitalizing the genre at a time when comic book movies had become stagnant. What they have in common is that both directors dealt with colossal pressure to deliver a box office hit for iconic comic book journalists and delivered. I'm talking about Sam Raimi and Richard Donner, of course. We'll look at each directors methodology, their end product, and decide which approach is better for today's comic book movie.



   You may or may not have heard of this small time director by the name of Richard Donner. He's just a guy that directed a little-known fictional character known as Clark Kent. Perhaps you know him better by his costumed alter ego.

If you happen to fall into the category of people who don't know who Richard Donner is, stop what you're doing, head out to your local mixed-media retailer, purchase the 1978 Superman film and seclude yourself in your home until you have watched the cinematic masterpiece that is Donner's film. For the 99.9% of you that have seen Donner's film, let's move on and discuss how this masterwork came to be.

Fresh off his success on the horror film "The Omen", Donner was hired to helm the Superman franchise after a slew of directors passed on the project[Francis Ford Coppolla, Geroge Lucas, and Steven Spielberg among others]. The very first thing that Donner did was hire someone to rewrite the script because he felt it was too campy. Thank whatever higher power you believe in for Donner's decision. Imagine Superman, the move that is the precedent and standard of all modern comic book movies as a campy farce. Imagine if that movie was a financial success and became the formula by which all comic book movies were made. On this alternate Earth, both the comic book and movie industry went extinct in 1987.

You can't talk about Superman without mentioning Christopher Reeve. Originally, the studio wanted an A-lister to portray the Man of Steel and everyone from Robert Redford, Burt Reynolds, Sylvester Stallone, and Paul Newman to Clint Eastwood, Charles Bronson, Jon Voit, and even Arnold Schwarzenegger were rumored to be up for the lead at one point. I think Redford would've been a find choice but he turned down the role because he felt he was too famous. Just goes to show how far comic book movies have come these days. In the end, it was Donner who decided that the studio should go with an unknown and it was Reeves who was ultimately cast.



Donner's theme for Superman centered around realism. His approach relied on cinematic drama and the use of subtle humor instead of camp. The story is classic Superman, centered around Clark, Lois, and Lex. It manages to stay true to the story while at the same time, weaving in tried and true subject matter such as science-fiction [opening Krpton scene], unrequited romance [Lois & Clark], and humanity [Superman's decision to defy Jor-El and follow Pa Kent's advice]. For a 1978 film, the balance was perfect, the score was great, and the SFX were ahead of their time. Even today, the film still holds up well.



In the world of Marvel comics, there are only 3 indisputable facts:

1.) Radioactive spiders are carnivorous
2.) No one ever stays dead except Uncle Ben
3.) With great power, comes great responsibility

   Marvel comics are a different breed. Where DC's characters live in fictional cities and were created

to give readers larger-than-life heroes, Marvel's characters live in real American cities and often tell stories of characters dealing with everyday personal problems like alcoholism, failed marriages, and drug abuse. None of their characters personify this better than Peter Parker. Peter is poor, unpopular, and can't get the girl of his dreams [even when he does, its retconned away]. Even in his costumed identity, he's relentlessly vilified in the press. Since first created in 1962, Spider-Man has developed over the years to become Marvel's flagship title, indicating that the public is drawn to this take on realism. Forty years later, Sam Raimi is called upon to bring Marvel's most popular character to the big screen. Similar to the 1978 Superman film, several directors were sought before Raimi,
including James Cameron and Tim Burton. Before Toby Maguire was cast in the lead role, Leonardo DiCaprio, Heath Ledger, Scott Speedman, and James Franco were all in contention for the lead role. Interestingly, Raimi stated that he wanted Alicia Witt to play Mary Jane before Kristen Dunst was cast.

Raimi came on to helm Spider-Man at a time when the comic-book movie industry was in a tender state. The recent release of X-Men 2 years prior, ended a streak of camp in the likes of Batman Forever, Batman & Robin, and Steel. Ironically enough, Raimi lobied to direct Batman Forever but Joel Schumacher was ultimately chosen. Many viewed Spider-Man as the film that would either pave the way for a slew of comic book adaptions or set the industry back 20 years. Luckily, Raimi decided to follow Donner and take a realistic approach to the super-hero genre. Just like Donner, Raimi ordered his own rewrites in order to center the script in reality. However, Raimi's rewrites were not to bring more real life drama but to make the film more closer to the source material. One memorable response Raimi gave about the film was that "I think the biggest influence was the forty years of great Stan Lee and Steve Ditko and all those great Marvel artists and writers that have written the books. That really was 90% of what we tried to put on the screen." It worked, the film went on to gross over $800 Million Worldwide.


The difference between Donner and Raimi is how they attempt to create

realism in their movies. Donner's approach was to take the mythos and mold it into something believable. While offering insight on his approach, Donner had the following to say, "The minute you lose the truth or make fun of it or begin to parody it, you destroy the line of tension, the honesty." Raimi's approach was slightly different. He believed in finding all of the realistic qualities already intrinsic to Spider-Man and using that as the core of his movie. In Raimi's film, the focus is on Peter Parker, not Spider-Man. He also keeps the tone light by injecting a bit of his own imagination into the story [the upside down kiss, organic web-shooters,green goblin costume]. With their respective methodology,a Donner Spider-Man film would be very different from Raimi's. Similarly, a Raimi Superman film would only have a superficial resemblance to Donner's. In a Donner Spider-Man, you would lose some of the "simpleness" of Raimi's. Zany high school fights and wrestling contests to win cars probably wouldn't make it into Donner's version. Likewise, in a Raimi Superman you'd probably get a stronger focus on the relationship between Clark and Pa and Ma Kent, similar to the dynamic between Peter and Uncle Ben in Spider-Man.

Its honestly, difficult to say who's approach I prefer. Both directors make excellent films, however if I was pressed to choose, I would pick Donner. Simply because he makes a more serious super-hero film. Being true to the source material is important but a good real-life drama should always be the focus of the story.

Which director is your favorite? Which one would you pick to direct origin stories for:
-Batman
-Captain America
-Green Lantern
-Suicide Squad
-Daredevil
-Wonder Woman

Sound off below and please vote!



Donner is currently working on a Bill Bixby [star of the Incredible Hulk] biopic which will star Hugh Jackman. Raimi is currently working on Disney's Oz, The Great and Powerful, Evil Dead 4, and The Shadow. Raimi is also set to produce the live-action adaption of the anime Noir for Starz.


By: TwitterButtons.com

By TwitterButtons.com


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LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 6:44 PM
I voted for Sam Raimi!

His Spidey 1 and 2 for ME personally were what really put CBMs on the map.

Spidey 1 and 2 left way more of an impression on me than Donner's superman 1 and 2 because quite frankly- Raimi's Spidey flicks were more- relatable, engaging, had BETTER VILLAINS and the perfect amount of action mixed with story.

Peter Parker in those films came off as a geek you felt kinda bad for. Clark Kent in the first 2 Superman flicks came off as a geek that just got annoying. It was always painful on my eyes to have to watch him get stuck in sliding doors and trip over everything in site. I prefer the Raimi approach over the Donner approach by MILES.

The Donner flicks were annoying and boring. I'm glad he's done. Raimi's first 2 Spidey flicks were the best!
TheDetectiveComicRises
TheDetectiveComicRises - 6/25/2011, 6:45 PM
I luv both but I gotta go with Richard Donner/Superman!
LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 6:52 PM
@GDSuperguy- I agree with everything you said. I felt more sympathy while watching the first two Raimi Spider-Man films.

Like i said- they were more engaging.

The Donner flicks just seemed odd to me. Not relatable at all...very, very boring and terrible use of villains.

Let's compare shall we?

1st Spidey flick- GREEN [frick]ING GOBLIN! Pumpkin bombs and complete with goblin-glider!!!!

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

1st Supes flick- Campy Luthor with idiotic henchman otis and the 'mole' miss tesmach whatever her name was. And trying to get real-estate. Ok...lame.

2nd Spidey flick- DOCTOR OCTOPUS!!! [frick]ING DOC-OC! PLUS Harry Osborn finally turning evil!!!!

Totally BADASS!! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!

2nd Supes flick- Zod who was ok...but then Ursa the universal feminist and Non...idiot who couldn't even talk and only growled the whole time oh and we got Lex Luthor with more real-estate.

Not to mention the action element in both Spidey flicks were WAY better than Donner's films.

Sam Raimi FTW!!!!
MarkJulian
MarkJulian - 6/25/2011, 6:55 PM
Guys, you have to remember that Superman was made in 1978 and Spider-Man was made in 2002. In looking at the approach of the 2 directors, I believe Donner's would create a more serious super-hero movie today.
LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 6:56 PM
@Graphic- True...but i still hated the donner flicks for Superman. Too boring.

Every Superman film has been boring thus far.
MarkJulian
MarkJulian - 6/25/2011, 6:56 PM
Also,
-Batman:Donner
-Captain America:Donner
-Green lantern:Raimi
-Daredevil:Donner
-Wonder Woman:Raimi
LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 6:59 PM
Also I would like to say, that personally i also rank the first 2 Burton Batman films waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over the first 2 Donner Superman films.

Batman Returns remains to this day as my all-time favorite Batman film ever created. And yes, I rank it waaaaaaaaay over The Dark Knight.

Batman Returns had beautifully orchestrated music, a villain you felt bad for- Penguin, a sexy/seductive Catwoman and Batman being a total bada$$

The action and story were perfect. The mood/tone was dead-on.

It's just a shame Burton left and the franchise went to shit under Schumacher.
MarkJulian
MarkJulian - 6/25/2011, 7:07 PM
Its funny, Donner pitched a serious Batman film in the early 80's starring Mel Gibson and Raimi wanted to take over after Burton left
LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 7:11 PM
@Graphic- Donner wanted to cast MEL GIBSON as Batman?

Thank god we dodged THAT bullet. What the hell was Donner even thinking?
marvel72
marvel72 - 6/25/2011, 7:12 PM
sorry i'm gonna have to say richard donner,as much as i love spider-man 2.

but this was the first time we'd seen anything like this.

-a cast to die for christopher reeves,marlon brando,gene hackman,ned beatty & others.

-an iconic theme tune.

-pretty spot on adaption of the superman origin.

-2 hour & 26 minutes long......epic

best dc comic film

1.superman the movie
2.watchmen
3.batman
4.batman returns
5.superman 2

the awesome trailer.



this scene would be in the top ten greatest comic book moments.

MarkJulian
MarkJulian - 6/25/2011, 7:14 PM
@LP4 Without Donner making a serious comic book film, there would be no Raimi. Just saying. But it is indeed a very, very tough decision.
MarkJulian
MarkJulian - 6/25/2011, 7:17 PM
Marlon Brando didnt learn his lines for Superman. He read cue cards on various props in his scenes, lol.
LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 7:19 PM
I think my most favorite DC film has gotta be "Batman Returns"

Perfect in every way imaginable. Burton actually made Penguin cooler by making him more disgusting and spewing bile from his mouth. ;D

The music by Danny Elfman was the BEST!

The action- DEAD ON

Batman Returns is vastly underrated but I feel was MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better than Nolan's Dark Knight film.

Greatest Comicbook film ever made.



As for the tune from the Donner Superman films...I get tired of it. Gives me a migraine hearing it sometimes.

MarkJulian
MarkJulian - 6/25/2011, 7:20 PM
@Marvel 72 Epic!!!!!
MarkJulian
MarkJulian - 6/25/2011, 7:21 PM
@LP4 Returns was good, but I felt the Catwoman backstory was weak.
marvel72
marvel72 - 6/25/2011, 7:22 PM
@ lp4

you've got to have love for the donner films,we wouldn't of had any comic book movies today if they weren't made.

i think both burton batman films are better than nolans as well.

@ graphiccity

i know,kids they just don't know.

in a time before cgi,this was amazing.
LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 7:27 PM
@marvel72- Hahahaha my good friend, I can combat your trailers! IT'S ON!!!

lol





LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 7:29 PM
@marvel- I don't know man...I really didn't like the donner superman films- too boring, no real villain-threats aside from zod.

The Burton Batman flicks were the best followed by the Raimi Spidey flicks for me.

I know people love donner for the classic-ness but I'm different...I just go by what's more entertaining and by what films really captured me as a child and that was...the Burton Batman films all the way.

LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 7:29 PM
Youtube won't let me post the death scene for Penguin, stupid assholes.

I will try to find it though so i can upload that, one of the most epic CBM scenes ever.
LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 7:31 PM
Well in any case I can only provide the link to it-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7zuMMuFjpA&playnext=1&list=PLB7EF20B9E69EF40F
LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 7:34 PM
As for Donner, I really don't even want that guy anywhere near the Superman reboot. If he touches it, I'm sure the film will be boring again.

Donner just isn't very high on my list. He's towards the bottom for me.

Burton, Raimi and Nolan...those are the greats for me. ;D
MarkJulian
MarkJulian - 6/25/2011, 7:36 PM
@LP4 Did Batman just kill that fat guy? lol
MarkJulian
MarkJulian - 6/25/2011, 7:37 PM
Oh wow, I can't believe the voting is so one sided for Raimi.
LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 7:41 PM
@Graphic- Yep he did, lol

Look Batman was always my 2nd favorite comicbook character since i was a kid. I know lots of purists got pissed that the Burton version killed but look...taken out from the comics...in a realistic situation, anyone would kill a murderer. Besides...Batman only "killed" the minions. Joker was weighed down by the gargoyle and thus fell to his demise. Penguin died of heat-exhaustion.

And I know lots of people love Christian Bale...but I feel Michael Keaton was the ONE true Batman.

marvel72
marvel72 - 6/25/2011, 7:42 PM
@ lp4

hahahahaha right mate,batman returns is fantastic but in trailer duel i think i've posted the winning trailer.

enjoy.


MarkJulian
MarkJulian - 6/25/2011, 7:43 PM
@LP4 I just can get over how pudgy his face looks in the mask lol
LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 7:44 PM
Keaton's Batman films really influenced my childhood BIG TIME. I remember i had all the toys from the movies...I had the Batman Returns sleeping bag...

The Reeve-Superman films never did that for me. -_-

Ok this is my last picture, lol
LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 7:51 PM
@marvel- Hahaha right on brother. Well there are no more trailers for me to post but i will post this-

LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 7:52 PM
@Graphic- Pudgy???? How so? He looked great as Batman. Better than baley boy in the nolan flicks ;D
LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 7:55 PM
I always felt if any live action Batman were to exist in the same realm as the Reeve-Superman it would have been Keaton's Batman. Both had films around the same time period and both had great first 2 films from- Burton and Donner.

LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 7:58 PM
Oh and btw- Danny Elfman's Batman score BEATS THE CRAP out of John Williams' Superman score.

-_^
LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 8:03 PM
Oh and you can't top a classic diet coke commercial either

;D

LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 8:06 PM
@Intruder- I agree. The Raimi Spidey-films WHOOPED the boring lovey-dovey Donner Superman films.

But like i posted above. The Burton Batman films esp Batman Returns beat all.
MarkJulian
MarkJulian - 6/25/2011, 8:07 PM

GIFSoup

Just because every article needs boobs!
LP4
LP4 - 6/25/2011, 8:11 PM
@Graphic- NIIIIIICE ^_^

JULEZ13
JULEZ13 - 6/25/2011, 9:29 PM
I chose Raimi mainly because I was born during this generation. I wasn't around when the Donner films came out therefore to me it's a bit outdated. But I still enjoy them from time to time. Christopher Reeve was the best option compared to the already known established actors of that time listed in the article!

I also love the first Spiderman film. I think it is the best portrayed origin film of any CB character thus far. It was enjoyable and stuck to the comics. As for the second one, Doc Ock was cool, but the film didn't quite do it for me. Maybe it was Kirsten Dunst, she just never fit my vision of Mary Jane.

Donner's films will always have a place in my heart. Mainly because they are the only Superman films made in color (I am completely ignoring the travesty that is Superman Returns!!).

As for Batman, my favorite movie was the very first one by Burton. I hate Burton but I do love his take on Batman. (Thank God they didn't allow him to go through with Superman!) My second favorite would be Nolan's TDK.

@LP4: You are right, my friend. Michael Keaton has been the best Batman so far. I hate Bale as Batman! I can't wait until he's done with the role.

As for Mel Gibson's possible portrayal of Batman when he was still young, I think would have been interesting. He was a great actor in his time and I think he had the perfect look and persona to pull it off. I wish we would've been able to see it (as long as it wasn't campy).
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