Marvel Sued By Kirby Estate

Marvel Sued By Kirby Estate

The Kirby Estate is suing Marvel for copyrights to some of Marvels most iconic characters, among other things.

By Hawksblueyes - Mar 15, 2010 05:03 PM EST
Filed Under: Marvel Comics
Source: THR




Jack Kirby's children have officially sued Marvel for copyrights and profits from some of Marvels biggest and baddest characters.

This from THR...

The suit, filed in U.S. District Court in Los Angeles, follows the September move by the estate to send out 45 notices of termination to Marvel and owner the Walt Disney Co., as well as Sony, Universal, Fox and others, hoping to recapture control of much of Kirby's work. In January, Marvel filed its own lawsuit, claiming the creations were "work-made-for-hire" and that Marvel was the real "author" of such works under the 1909 Copyright Act.

The complaint seeks declaratory relief, including copyright termination and profits. It describes the backstory of Kirby's creative period, particularly from 1958 to 1963, when Marvel existed in a tiny office with few employees and relied upon "freelancers to which they had little or no obligation." Kirby disputes Marvel's work-for-hire theory.

Because Kirby often worked in tandem with others, particularly Lee, the complaint is careful about what the estate believes it is entitled to control: "With respect to Co-Owned Kirby Works, as of the respective Termination Dates, Defendants will jointly own the copyrights to such works for their renewal terms: both Plaintiffs and Defendants will have the non-exclusive right to exploit such jointly owned copyrights..."

In other words, even though various studios currently have a license to produce movies such as "Spider-Man" (Sony) and "X-Men" (Fox), the estate's court action could give it the ability to license competing versions. If it wins termination, that is. Disney and the other studios are sure to throw all of their superpower legal muscle at this fight.

One surprise in the lawsuit is an unexpected claim under the Lanham Act. The lawsuit targets two films, "The Incredible Hulk" released in 2008 and "X-Men Origins: Wolverine" released last year, as films that it claims were misrepresented in commercial advertising and promotion. The estate claims that Kirby was not properly identified as being the author or co-author of these works. The estate is seeking "up to three times the damages they sustained and will sustain," which isn't specifically identified, but could be significant. "Wolverine" made almost $375 million in worldwide gross.


Follow the link below for the entire article from THR.

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Spock
Spock - 3/15/2010, 6:11 PM
This is an ongoing series!
SandMan101
SandMan101 - 3/15/2010, 6:40 PM
thy need to stop bitching...i mean he should have patented them when he was working there. Its not like marvel was that big of a company that he couldnt do it
InstigatorGIRL
InstigatorGIRL - 3/15/2010, 7:12 PM
LMAO. My thoughts exactly SandMan. Kirby had more than enough time to patented them but NOW that comics are more popular and movies about these heroes are coming out NOW they want the rights to be theirs. Load of crap.
StuckInPanels
StuckInPanels - 3/16/2010, 5:20 AM
they said he was freelance during his time at Marvel, HE knew that the characters would be owned by the company. Its like someone working at Disney and drawing a character, they don't own the rights to the character but are allowed to draw it for the purpose of selling a product. This will end with Marvel and Disney winning or they will pay them to shut up and go away
ErikBauer
ErikBauer - 3/16/2010, 10:01 AM
This is what they are trying to achieve: milking some money from the big dudes.

selinakyle
selinakyle - 3/16/2010, 10:02 AM
This article has been posted hasn't it?
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 3/16/2010, 10:22 AM
so yeah, i'll say the same thing that was in the other article. Kirby knew that the work he created would be owned by Marvel. Kirby never owned any of the characters. his heirs have no right to any of the characters his father created.
Talontd
Talontd - 3/16/2010, 10:38 AM
Greedy @ss kids!
MSJuggalo
MSJuggalo - 3/16/2010, 10:53 AM
Yeah, I said it in the post that was apparently replaced/removed and I'll say it again.

If Kirby's were so bent on the true copyright standpoint, why are they only making the dispute now?! You didn't see them making a fuss nearly ten years ago when the first Xmen movie came out. Nor did they during the past decade while marvel-based movies began to grow!

It's only now when marvel has such a big (and very profitable) set of plans with movies and already have a STRONG foundation, that they want their "entitled" share!

How obvious can it be that they are just trying to get free money (and boatloads at that)?!?!
Shaman
Shaman - 3/16/2010, 11:31 AM
Dman, i'll have to repost mine... *sigh*

Kirby "created" some characters but Marvel MADE them popular. Kirby's characters wouldn't be shit without Marvel. If Kirby had said "[frick] off" to Marvel we'd all be fans of other characters today.

And i myself have some creator owned stuff but if i agree to let a company MAKE my character popular, it would be understandable for the bulk of the money to go to whoever MADE it popular hense all the money that came from publishing that said character. Kirby got paid for the job he did. Marvel are the ones who INVESTED in those characters and the money that was generated from their efforts should go soulely to them, not the heirs of the guy that was paid to create them in the first place.

Okay, so it's not my exact reply but you get the drift.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 3/16/2010, 11:39 AM
@ Shaman, MSJuggalo, and gtrman

also, doesn't anyone find it funny or weird that Jack Kirby HIMSELF never cried foul against Marvel?? all those years that he was alive after creating those characters, and not once did he mention Marvel "screwing" him, or that he deserved to own the characters he created. not once. you know why?? Because he KNEW what his contract/job entailed. he KNEW he would not own the characters before he even created them. thats all the proof i need to know that his heirs are being greedy.
WOLVERINEDECADE
WOLVERINEDECADE - 3/16/2010, 11:47 AM
@Corndog, Shaman, MSJuggalo, and gtrman

and another also, wouldn't Stan Lee have done the same, if they knew their creations would be owned by Marvel without them (Lee & Kirby) knowing? wouldn't Stan also step up, sue Marvel, and say, "hey, im the one who gave those characters their names and powers... I want my share!"?

Stan THE MAN Lee won't do such a thing... and neither would Jack THE KING Kirby.
Shaman
Shaman - 3/16/2010, 12:30 PM
WOLVERINE111882 & CorndogBurglar- They definitely would have!
Checkmate
Checkmate - 3/16/2010, 3:42 PM
This whole thing is just stupid.
Hawksblueyes
Hawksblueyes - 3/16/2010, 3:45 PM
MsKyle08: I haven't seen another article on this but I have been working all day. If someone posted one today it probably was deleted, I had this one up early last night.
comicb00kguy
comicb00kguy - 3/16/2010, 4:40 PM
Good for the family! I hope they win! These damn companies screwed the creators of their most iconic characters- characters that these companies have made millions upon millions of dollars off of. Without Jack Kirby, there would have been no Marvel. I'm glad to see people now fighting these greedy corporations and winning a fair share of royalties for their or their ancestors' creations.
MSJuggalo
MSJuggalo - 3/16/2010, 4:50 PM
@comicb00kguy

I'm sorry but you have it backwards. Jack Kirby would be nothing if not for Marvel, NOT Marvel would be nothing without Kirby. Marvel would have found someone else to do the artwork if it weren't Kirby and still have likely ended up where they are now. It's thanks to Marvel that Kirby has the recognition he does, NOT the other way around. If marvel didn't use Kirby's work, he wouldn't be nearly as much of an icon, if at all.
MSJuggalo
MSJuggalo - 3/16/2010, 4:59 PM
My great great great great great ancestors invented the wheel. I want my due share of any future profit derived from the wheel! Oh wait, had my ancestors not have invented it, someone else would have. That's just how society is. There are always the "it would be someone else if not for that guy" situations! People need to grow a set and learn to work to make a living, NOT try to find a way to earn millions crying about being "ripped off"! Just as WOLVERINE111882 and CornDogBurglar stated. Jack Kirby and Stan Lee both never claimed to get ripped off for copyrights. Why?! Cause they knew how the contract/agreement/whatever worked! They knew they worked FOR Marvel and that Marvel was, in all actuallity, the owner of these characters. No one fights for rights to Mickey mouse cause regardless of who drew the character, Disney is the owner! Same for other companies!

Lol, sorry couldn't come up with a better way to compare it.
MSJuggalo
MSJuggalo - 3/16/2010, 6:57 PM
Actually, to be technical, if you think about we can only assume for if it occurred differently, it would be factual. Lol. No offense meant. Just being sarcastic.

However, you do make a good point. It's all opinion. My point is, just as others have stated, there was never this claim by Jack Kirby. He knew the legalities of the situation. He was paid negotionably during his generation. It's jacked that now that marvel is still making money off characters Jack Kirby created how many years ago, the children are "demanding" what they ASSUME they deserve. He created them based off of ideas that the writers had/have. The core concepts were Marvel's. He just turned these ideas into pictures/illustration/what-have-you. As you said Anil Rickly, they were both mutually beneficial to each other. But Kirby was paid fairly enough for his standards cause he never personally complained about not getting his share for what he did.

The children are just trying to make money they didn't earn. They should be happy with the legacy they hold. No, it's just about the money. They know with what marvel has in the works, there will be millions upon millions of $ to be made and they are trying to weasel their way into the pie.

Ok, I'm done. Sorry for that over-analysis. I'll leave it at that. I haven't had anything to do today, am just bored and I could probably go on forever about this, lol.
foxfan
foxfan - 3/16/2010, 8:18 PM
curious - did this article replace an earlier one?
WOLVERINEDECADE
WOLVERINEDECADE - 3/16/2010, 9:02 PM
@ MSJuggalo: very well said, indeed. ive never said it better myself.
FernanDitto
FernanDitto - 3/16/2010, 10:48 PM
Justice for the family Kirby.Jack was a creator too and deserved this compensation and them repaired this,is a matter of honor.
MSJuggalo
MSJuggalo - 3/17/2010, 8:12 AM
@FernanDitto
how do they "deserve" compensation still? I don't know everything about it but I'm sure there was a point where Kirby just went his own direction. Stan Lee makes a cameo in practically EVERY marvel based comic-movie adaptation. So he still plays a part in things thus continues to profit. Now (IF) Kirby didn't stay in the loop like that, then they deserve nothing! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! but if he did and didn't continue to get his share (which never happened cause he never made claims), then they have a chance to fight for it.

BUT JACK KIRBY NEVER CRIED CAUSE HE KNEW WHERE HE STOOD AND KNEW HOW THE LEGALITIES WORKED!! how many times does that need to be made clear?! The claim made by the children has no real strong supportive evidence.

I'm sorry but if it were just a matter of "honor", all they would be worried about is making sure the Kirby name is still significant, which it still is! But as you can see, they aren't worried about keeping the Kirby name renowned, which it still is! It is well known to the comic book fans and will never be forgotten just like Stan Lee and others so they have no real reason to whine. They just want a chunk of the millions of $ that marvel will make in the next few years. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "HONOR"!

Lastly, and more importantly, it is in the court system now. This means, it will come down to who has more money to pay the right lawyers and judges. (sorry but I don't exactly see the court system as real justice). This being said, (to give credit to T2 who stated this) now that Disney has their hands in the mix, they will take the Kirby's bankrupt before letting them manipulate their way into the picture with this aprroach
MSJuggalo
MSJuggalo - 3/17/2010, 2:07 PM
You have no support to your stance, bropous.

First off, let me make sure I am clear. I'm not saying that the Kirby relatives are spoiled brats that never worked a day in their lives! What I'm saying is they want something they don't truly deserve!

If Marvel "screwed" Kirby, HE would have made the claim. No he was happy with what he got! Happy enough not to take Marvel to court. Too bad about how they "feel". It doesn't mean squat. Jack made characters, agreed with the stipulations and was more than happy with his work/pay. THEY ARE JUST BEING GREEDY, DUH! How hard is it to see that?!

If it is NOT about being greedy, EXPLAIN THIS THEN!

Why are they only coming up with this claims NEARLY TEN YEARS after Marvel has been making movies based off of these characters?!?!

Why does the article state that they are only making this claim on the biggest and baddest characters?!?!

They didn't care about the smaller guys like fantastic four or daredevil or ghostrider. No, they just want in the picture now when Marvel has the biggest plans with a handful of movies and the biggest croosovers in movie history (I think) and there are millions, if not billions, of potential earnings.

Nothing anyone says will change those facts, which proves better than anything that it's GREED!

HOW OBVIOUS DO YOU F'N PEOPLE NEED IT TO BE?!?! IT'S ONLY ABOUT ONE THING!

MONEY MONEY MONEY!!! that's what! They want more and are just using the "oh it's my dad's character" BS.

There is no assumption that it's all they are after! The facts speak for themselves!

Had the claim been made by Kirby himself, I could see some signifigance to it but HE DIDNT CAUSE HE KNEW HIS POSITION AND WHERE HE STOOD! The children are just weasels that want something they don't deserve!
WOLVERINEDECADE
WOLVERINEDECADE - 3/17/2010, 6:04 PM
@MSJuggalo: very nicely put. others dont truly understand that IF KIRBY WOULD'VE BEEN ALIVE TODAY, HE HIMSELF WON'T SUE MARVEL, EVEN STAN LEE HIMSELF WON'T DO SUCH A STUPID ACT. WHY? COZ THEY KNOW WHERE TO STAND: THAT MARVEL OWNS THE CHARACTERS, NOT THEM. AND THEY KNOW IT DEEP DOWN IN THEMSELVES.

i hope that Kirby Estate could read these. shame on them!
MSJuggalo
MSJuggalo - 3/17/2010, 6:47 PM
Thank you Wolverine111882. Makes me feel a lil bit better knowing that at least ONE person appreciates what I have to say about this. I'm not here to necessarily argue with people. Just trying to prove a point, which has all the evidence it needs! Where as from what I do know, the Kirby's have little to no strong evidence to their claim.

Again, I'm sorry if it seems like I'm a nerd with nothing better to do. I just have been free for the past few days and just browsing the web while I can cause I don't get to that much usually
WOLVERINEDECADE
WOLVERINEDECADE - 3/17/2010, 8:14 PM
@MSJuggalo: its always been a pleasure to be on the right side of things.

this is as close as i could ever get for returning to Marvel & Jack Kirby the favor, for i have been a Marvel Fan since i was 6, and as i grew up, i knew that Jack Kirby is "The King" who drew many (if not all) Marvel characters. people should know where to stand, with respect to those who were ahead of us. and both Marvel and Jack Kirby wouldn't be as recognizable and respected as they are right now if not for their humble and sincere hardwork and effort in giving us these characters that we love today, (if not forever).
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