UPDATE: JMS Takes A Swipe At AMAZING SPIDER-MAN Sales; Stephen Wacker Responds

UPDATE: JMS Takes A Swipe At AMAZING SPIDER-MAN Sales; Stephen Wacker Responds

Bleeding Cool has spotted a conversation which is sure to split many comic book fans. Writer JMS pointed out the declining sales of The Amazing Spider-Man, and current editor Stephen Wacker responded. Things escalated from there.

By JoshWilding - Dec 10, 2011 08:12 AM EST
Filed Under: Marvel Comics
Source: Bleeding Cool

J. Michael Straczynski's run on The Amazing Spider-Man was (and still is) loved by many comic book fans. Mainly because it was, well, AMAZING. However, the decision to wipe the marriage of Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson out of continuity in "One More Day" led to his departure from the title, and Marvel's plans for "Siege" soon resulted in him walking away from Thor too. Two creative decisions which forced the critically acclaimed writer to walk away from two critically acclaimed books. Regardless, he still played a role in coming up with the story for the big screen adaptation of THOR and as far as anyone knows, isn't on bad terms with the comic book publishers. Or so it seems...

Sales on The Amazing Spider-Man since my departure. Just sayin'




JMS posted that on his Facebook page and regardless of how you choose to read into it, it led to a heated response from current editor of The Amazing Spider-Man, Stephen Wacker.

An excellent post, JMS. Out of context, out of date and full of out-of-the-blue mean.

Everyone on ASM currently respects your years on the book (and as editor I’ve said so many times in interviews and in the letter column), but seriously this is about as creepy and low of a move as a former writer can pull on another group of creators (many of whom didn’t have the luxury you had of ducking out of controversy).

Due to the team’s hard work, ASM is still one of the best-selling, best performing comics around. And thanks to them, 130+ (on-time!) issues of ASM have come out since you left — which certainly helps mitigate the softening of the ENTIRE comics market that you’re apparently willing to ignore.

Yes, you are one of the bigger names in the comics industry. Congratulations. You’ve earned the title.

It’s a shame though that the title doesn’t come with more class…just sayin'...


He brings up some very good points, and who can blame the man who has spearheaded the title since the beginning of "Brand New Day" (not to mention the launch of such books as Daredevil, The Punisher and Venom) from standing up for a series he's put so much work into? Well, JMS also decided to respond with the following.

Nowhere in my post did I say word one about the current creative team. Nowhere in the post was there the sort of personal attack you engage in here. Nowhere do I characterize anyone or impugn their motives or integrity. I was simply passing along raw numbers, which you do not actually refute, you simply yell at me for posting them and call names and engage in other essentially churlish behavior. In regards to ducking out of controversy, I would like to know what that refers to as I have never stepped away from either controversy or sharing my opinion.

I have always made it very clear that when I came aboard ASM I brought Peter and MJ back together because I liked writing them as a married couple. I made equally clear that the decision to unmarry them and, in the same brushstroke, eliminate virtually every story I’d written during those eight years was an editorial mandate, not my choice. I would’ve been happy to continue writing them married until the sun went out. Marvel wanted to unmarry them. That’s your choice, and your right. At no point did I duck out of anything. If you think I did, back it up: what are you referring to?

I posted numbers. Nothing more or less. If those numbers are correct, and again you do nothing to say otherwise…then your reaction is simply mean-spirited diversion. If those numbers are not correct, provide what you consider to be accurate ones. I am more than happy to have them posted here.

In the course of this, I received a friendly, measured note from Dan Slott, who is a terrific writer, who asked if I had any problems with the current creative team. I’ll tell you what I told him: I have no problem with them/him whatsoever. Dan is a terrific writer and is doing great work. I happened to come across this chart, and passed it along. Beginning, middle and end of story.

At NO point did I engage in the kind of attacking, spiteful, mean-spirited characterization you did above. It’s unfortunate that one of Marvel’s editors comports himself in this fashion, but it happens.

If you choose to continue the conversation, please try to do so in a grown-up fashion, as did Dan Slott. You might find it a refreshing change.


There's clearly two sides to this story, but it's hard to imagine why exactly JMS would post those sales figures if he wasn't attempting to make some sort of dig at the current direction of The Amazing Spider-Man. A lot of readers left the book following the events of "One More Day" and it was Wacker and his three times a month release schedule with a rotating group of writers and artists that brought many of them back. Of course, I don't think anyone could blame JMS for being bitter over the fact that a lot of his work on the series was dissolved because of that event. Unfortunately, "Sins Past" wasn't one of them. Be sure to share your own thoughts on this story in the usual place.


UPDATE: Once again we have Bleeding Cool to thank for an update to their original article, this time featuring Stephen Wacker's final response to JMS' above comments.

Starting my weekend off right!

My mistake…Apparently when you wrote “Just saying’…’” you meant “Just sayin’…the books in good shape and I wish the team well.”

JMS, I don’t know you beyond a couple of brusque ‘hello’s, so I don’t have a lot of heat wrapped up in this “fight” as you seem to imagine. Certainly no one’s “yelling” or “calling you names” as you suggest. You posted something passive aggressive at best and it deserves a response. (I agree that I’m bad at passive aggressive, so that’s on me. Clarity is my curse.)

One thing we agree on here is that Dan Slott is a good guy who wants to do well. It was nice he reached out to a guy trying to make the argument the book was tanking. I don’t know that I would have reached out to you privately since A) I hardly know you and B) you posted this publicly.

At the bottom of it all, though, you’ve posted an absolutely incorrect chart that isn’t based on real numbers and leaves out many individual issues to make its “point”. The sales chart you posted is the fictional fantasy fantasy of a blogger who has a massive, medically enhanced hate for the comic and the people at Marvel. In the past has cracked about wanting to “punch Dan Slott in the face” among many other vile– and sometimes violent– remarks about everyone on the comic.

(He VIOLENTLY hates you too, for what it’s worth. And you’ve now fanned his flame something fierce.)

However, in the end, that’s just deranged—though impotent– fan cranking and moaning. More over the top than most, but we’re all used to that and deal with it regularly.

What’s more important is that, as I clearly said in the last post, his numbers are absolutely wrong, out of date and out of context.

You seem to somehow read that as me not refuting the numbers. Let me say it plainly then…I refute the numbers. I even REFUDIATE them. I even REFUDIUDIUDIUDIPUDIATE them. (You are better with words than me, so if there’s something stronger, please use it in the previous sentence.) Hope that clears it up.

Yes, individual sales are on average lower than when you wrote the book. That’s true. You are without a doubt one of the top writers in comics. Once again, I concede that point… so congrats on that. I’ve long said so in the comic and in interviews that we all knew sales were going to go down once a top writer in comics left (especially after such a controversial story like OMD).

So to come in to show off how sales have gone down after you left seems to be needlessly spiking the football after the other team has set up for the next kickoff. You already won the point.

(I will happily write JMS IS ONE OF THE TOP WRITERS IN COMICS on a fan at the next convention if you want. It is just that true!)

BUT…and it’s a big but… we’ve also published over 4 times as many issues of ASM as we would have otherwise in a market that has weakened considerably since you were writing Civil War tie-ins. Amazing Spider-Man is still consistently and safely among the industry’s top sellers.

Since you’ve left, my writers and artists have managed to create the highest selling single issue in 15 years (which was purposefully left off the chart you’re brandishing) and add over 40 collections to the Spider-Man backlist.

That’s important information. And it puts those fake sales numbers you’re crowing about in context.

When the former heavyweight champion writer of a book shows up chiding my book’s sales with a ridiculously unfactual, cartoonish chart it sends a message to everyone that the book is somehow doing worse than when you were on it. You can see some of the responses here for just how well that worked out for you. If you say, you didn’t mean it that way, that’s great.

However, if trying to show up the current people on the book WASN’T your intention, I can’t imagine what it was. Just sayin’…

You are correct that I do take it personally when other creators knock the work my team does on any of my books (except Daredevil…swing away there. Those guys are jerks.). I stand by the notion that posting a comic’s sales after you’ve left is a creepy thing to do.

Just as a mental test, try imagining if I did the obvious thing here and posted…say…current Superman and Wonder Woman sales now that you left the book.

That would be buttheaded of me. And I try not to be buttheaded.

I did love your ASM run, though (except the Gwen thing…ewww). Especially loved Doom at the airport and the way you wrote Pete and MJ as a couple. (I also thought it was cool that we used you in Thor. They didn’t use Slott in the Spidey musical…which I believe was a huge mistake!)

Scarlet Spider #1 on sale January 4!


And it didn't end there. Former The Amazing Spider-Man writer and current Daredevil scribe Mark Waid decided to chime in with what concludes with a hilarious dig at "Grounded", the highly criticized story arc which saw Superman taking a very long walk across the United States.

Dick move, Joe. Flat out, a dick move, and you know it. Either your point was to show people how awesome you were, or to show people how things have deteriorated since your absence. There’s no other way to interpret your post. None. Are you really that hard up for approbation and fan love that you can’t rise above that sort of shit? I understand Wacker’s frustration. Maybe he overreacted a bit, in the way good friends DO react when they perceive their friends and employees being attacked by a bitter man with a bottomless ego, but you made the first move, and it was a dick move. And if anyone doubted you were doing it for anything other than informational purposes, adding “Just sayin’” was the snarktacular icing on the cake. No one says “Just sayin’” unless they’re doing exactly the opposite of “Just sayin’

Half an hour later, still fuming at JMS’s shitty passive-aggressiveness. I should probably go walk it off. Maybe with a long walk. A long, dull, pointless, boring walk. Across America.

That I won’t finish.


By: TwitterButtons.com
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marvel72
marvel72 - 12/10/2011, 8:31 AM
get peter parker & mary jane back together & i would love to see ed brubaker writing the amazing spider,he did great things with captain america & daredevil.

IDKwhatToChoose
IDKwhatToChoose - 12/10/2011, 8:31 AM
lol. Wow someone got bent out of shape
Reasonnnn
Reasonnnn - 12/10/2011, 8:32 AM
JMS is clearly in the wrong. He instigated.
SpiderBat209
SpiderBat209 - 12/10/2011, 8:33 AM
Get these guys a table dance! Chill the hell out already. :P
AlReg
AlReg - 12/10/2011, 8:39 AM
JMS could not have said anything to being with but I could see why he would be mad.

Wacker on the other hand is annoying he was trolling people on a message board for five pages not acting like a professional editor.
tripttwe
tripttwe - 12/10/2011, 8:52 AM
JMS WAS da BOMB on ASM, and his departure from the book had a domino effect that eventually made me stop reading comics altogether! OMD was terrible, and to this day I want to know where he was going with "the Other" story line. I love the fact that he takes it there on facebook or anywhere else. It confirms his passion for the character. A trait that I haven't seen since...
rocky
rocky - 12/10/2011, 9:00 AM
JMS doesn't mention that Marvel went from 3, I believe, different Spidey titles a months to 1 which came out 3 times a month when this went down. So if you add the 3 times a month the issues came out the aggregate sales is much closer overall to all the Spidey books during JMS' time. Less for sure but definitely not as by much as JMS indicates with his figures
Destroyer14
Destroyer14 - 12/10/2011, 9:10 AM
Interesting. I hope this is a bit of a wake-up call, cause Spidey right now needs a revolution.
GiftedYoungster
GiftedYoungster - 12/10/2011, 9:15 AM
Haha. Spider-man still sucks though.
Hawksblueyes
Hawksblueyes - 12/10/2011, 9:22 AM
I lost all interest in Spidey comics after BND. That story left me feeling that I had wasted money on every single Spider-Man comic that ever came before it.
Destroyer14
Destroyer14 - 12/10/2011, 9:28 AM
Spider-Man the character is nothing but a joke right now, and I'm one of his biggest fans.
0bstreperous
0bstreperous - 12/10/2011, 9:37 AM
i'm with JMS i went to that spiderman panel at commincon in NY this year all those guys were wack as frick they were all like " hey what do u guys think of flash thompson venom" and " did you know ghost rider is a girl now?"

spiderman 3 was one of those crushing disappointments as a fan was only made worse buy one more day i mean it spiderman has betrayed us and i don;t recognize the new one
shadow314
shadow314 - 12/10/2011, 9:39 AM
the both look like douschebags

douschebags gonna douschbag
spiderneil
spiderneil - 12/10/2011, 9:58 AM
I jumped off amazing spider-man after one more day

the only spidey I collect is ultimate spider-man. I wont pick up ASM until mj and peter are married again
ktrackler
ktrackler - 12/10/2011, 10:14 AM
While JMS may be a little bit of a prick in his attitude regarding the sale numbers, he his spot on. I quit buying Spider-Man after 5 issues of BND, and until they make things right I probably won't buy another.
TrueBlue
TrueBlue - 12/10/2011, 10:15 AM
I have to say that I liked JMS's run on Spider-Man, but he kinda comes off as a dick here. He says he never mentions the new team working on the book. But when you post numbers and say that the book sold more that is a swipe at the new team no matter how you look at it. If that wasn't his intention he should say that and apologize.
darthbobtarkas
darthbobtarkas - 12/10/2011, 10:17 AM
JMS is an asshole.
JustDame
JustDame - 12/10/2011, 10:25 AM
So what was Straczynksi implying if he wasn't talking about their current creative team?
ElBeaster
ElBeaster - 12/10/2011, 10:31 AM
So are all comic book writers assholes, just eager to get into pretentious, assholish fights with one another? You write comic books, not Shakespearean sonnets. Put down the thesaurus, you douche.
TheMyth
TheMyth - 12/10/2011, 10:43 AM
I take it that he was implying that suits are [frick]in' shit up. He left for that reason, and this is a sort of "I told you so" move. I can't say I wouldn't want to do something of the same in his position, especially since they basically retconned everything he did. Tell me you all wouldn't be pissed if you spent nearly a decade working on a comic title to have some dumbass editor come along and undo it all...
sexfoodcomics
sexfoodcomics - 12/10/2011, 10:48 AM
Sucks for both of them cause Avenging Spiderman is the best spiderman comics I have read since Todd macfarlane was on the book. That creative teams of Wells and Madureira should be on the main AMS title, period.
redleaf
redleaf - 12/10/2011, 11:07 AM
I like how people who never created anything in their lives call writers assholes just because they have creative integrity. Artists and writers need some freedom to work. They're not work horses.

Some Marvel fans will eat up anything the company dishes out even when it's crap. They're not always right.
BackwardGalaxy
BackwardGalaxy - 12/10/2011, 11:10 AM
It's pretty obviously a shot at Marvel's editorial decisions regarding the character. And, honestly, he's right. The other guy can get prissy about it all he wants, and it probably is a much more complicated matter than 1 simple graph can ever depict, but it's no secret that fans are pissed about Spidey.
souhunter
souhunter - 12/10/2011, 11:15 AM
I thought this was about stoping spider man run. I was about to kill my self
Thank good. Ps read first
headlopper
headlopper - 12/10/2011, 11:51 AM
@marvel72 - It all went downhill after 'Brand New Day'.

MJ and Pete need to be married-that's what the fans want.( ...and give Aunt May super-powers! lol)
SamWinchester
SamWinchester - 12/10/2011, 11:53 AM
JMS is absolutely right. Marvel have utterly destroyed - DESTROYED - the essence, evolution, and appeal of Spider-Man for my generation by degrading forty-plus years of legendary comic book history in favor of a few bucks and a change that virtually no one even asked for.
SoulAllFlush
SoulAllFlush - 12/10/2011, 12:02 PM
Whether JMS was being bitter or trying to take a snide dig is moot - the decision to in essence reboot Spider-Man was a poor, selfish, and cowardly move. You need to push forward with the character and take him to new places, not force him to redo old steps.

I'm surprised they didn't take the reboot further and make Parker a teenager again.
BackwardGalaxy
BackwardGalaxy - 12/10/2011, 12:08 PM
Um, despite what I said, Mark Waid won the argument (and my heart) with his shot at Grounded.
thespiderman209
thespiderman209 - 12/10/2011, 12:09 PM
this is a funny fight
PoPcornDude
PoPcornDude - 12/10/2011, 12:19 PM
@samWinchester,
@MrnoFear,
@redLeaf:
I TOTALLY agree with you guys!
after that disaster called OMD & BND, everything went downhill to hell.
what happend to that "amazing" spiderman, the one making the difficult choices, the one accepting the consequences, the one that used to let his frustration out when he put the custome and cracking some jokes ?
not only he made a poor, silly, cheap decision with Mephisto and now he's is just a "colorful" douche, swinging around NY ???
no, that's not the Peter parker I'm talking about, is about joe queza-dilla and that whack stephen wacker !
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