David S. Goyer Doesn't Hold To The "SUPERMAN Doesn't Kill" Rule; Briefly Talks JUSTICE LEAGUE

David S. Goyer Doesn't Hold To The "SUPERMAN Doesn't Kill" Rule; Briefly Talks JUSTICE LEAGUE

Speaking at last night's BATFA and BFI Screenwriters' Lecture, The Man Of Steel writer once again addressed the movie's controversial ending, admitting that he doesn't agree with many writer's "rule" that Supes would never take a life. Read on for more..

By MarkCassidy - Sep 24, 2013 06:09 AM EST
Filed Under: Superman
Source: Via Digital Spy

There have been endless debates here on CBM about the ending to Zack Snyder's Man Of Steel, which sees Superman choose to end Zod's life in order to save some innocent civilians -- and it's not even the first time David S. Goyer has chimed in. But during his most recent discussion of the scene at the BATFA and BFI Screenwriters' Lecture last night, the screenwriter goes into more details than he has before. Goyer says that the black and white "Superman doesn't kill" rule which is held to pretty rigidly by most comic writers "exists outside of the narrative" of the movie, and he didn't want to be hindered by it to tell the story he wanted to tell. He also addresses the popular "why didn't he just fly Zod to the Moon or something?" fan-gripe!



"We were pretty sure that was going to be controversial, It's not like we were deluding ourselves, and we weren't just doing it to be cool. We felt, in the case of Zod, we wanted to put the character in an impossible situation and make an impossible choice. This is one area, and I've written comic books as well and this is where I disagree with some of my fellow comic book writers - 'Superman doesn't kill'. It's a rule that exists outside of the narrative and I just don't believe in rules like that. I believe when you're writing film or television, you can't rely on a crutch or rule that exists outside of the narrative of the film. So the situation was, Zod says 'I'm not going to stop until you kill me or I kill you.' The reality is no prison on the planet could hold him and in our film Superman can't fly to the moon, and we didn't want to come up with that crutch. Also our movie was in a way Superman Begins, he's not really Superman until the end of the film. We wanted him to have had that experience of having taken a life and carry that through onto the next films. Because he's Superman and because people idolise him he will have to hold himself to a higher standard."


Also, when asked if he'd be writing DC and Warner Bros. long planned Justice League movie, Goyer replied “I might be, can’t say.”. Which side of this debate do you fall on? Sound off below.
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scarecrow007
scarecrow007 - 9/24/2013, 6:28 AM
Well he did kill Zod & co in Superman II...
Moohika
Moohika - 9/24/2013, 6:31 AM
Makes sense to me
JayJayCAW
JayJayCAW - 9/24/2013, 6:34 AM
While I agree that under extreme circumstances Superman has no other option but to kill (example: Zod, Doomsday etc.) the way Goyer makes it sound is as if he thinks Superman should do it all the time, as if it's nothing, there's the bad guy....kill em.....sry but no, that's not Superman. If there is literally no other choice then fine there is no other choice, but if there is an option....no matter how small....then Superman should explore that option first.

NightWatcher
NightWatcher - 9/24/2013, 6:34 AM
So the DCU is going to turn to the justice lords.

Yeah,kinda figured that was gonna happen.

Batmans gonna kill joker

Superman gonna kill Lex luthor

Superman kills batman or the other way around

And that's the end of Batman/Superman movie ;)
McNyagano
McNyagano - 9/24/2013, 6:39 AM
What the hell was Louis doing in that scene? -___-
Highflyer
Highflyer - 9/24/2013, 6:40 AM
I have no problem with superman killing zod, i have a problem wit the world's dumbest family. :p
Highflyer
Highflyer - 9/24/2013, 6:41 AM
@McNyagano I found it weird that lois was able to get there in around 10 seconds. -___-
siggisuperman
siggisuperman - 9/24/2013, 6:41 AM
Fanboys who complain about this are dumb and don't read comics. Superman has to learn somewhere where his power has to stop. This is that point, after this he will never kill again. It's the same in the comics. Superman kills Zod, it is an integral part of his character. The fact that he had to kill Zod is the reason he fights so hard to never take a life again.
r3negade
r3negade - 9/24/2013, 6:42 AM
What, Are we gonna see this next?

McNyagano
McNyagano - 9/24/2013, 6:42 AM
Goyer has written comic books???
subzero1077
subzero1077 - 9/24/2013, 6:44 AM
If he flew Zod to the moon, what would he do with him then?
MisterPL
MisterPL - 9/24/2013, 6:45 AM
@ McNyagano

Who the heck is "Louis?"

I don't have a problem with Superman killing in this instance. I doubt they have any plans to turn him into The Punisher so I'm not concerned.
superotherside
superotherside - 9/24/2013, 6:46 AM
I don't have a problem with what he did. In a real fight kids you can't punch someone without possibly killing them.

So if you're pacifist enough to say you can't kill someone, you can't fight them either.

But as always.



;P
McNyagano
McNyagano - 9/24/2013, 6:47 AM
@highflyer

Lois had the ability to teleport to places in this movie -_- WTF??!!
MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 9/24/2013, 6:47 AM
Subzero, Nothing. Zod would come back down and start killing kids again. Al;ways was a dumb as [frick] argument.

Yeah Lois didn't belong in that scene, but I guess they needed the emotional payoff of her comforting Supes..and I guess she could have been watching them fall into the train station or something!..but a stretch yes.
JatevinM
JatevinM - 9/24/2013, 6:47 AM
When it happened in the theater I gasped pretty freaking hard because that is something I definitely wasn't expecting, but after I was happy that they did it not only because it was the only choice that he had but because Zod said himself that he was never going to stop. Its better to have an origin for his don't kill rule than to make it an unspoken yet understood thing.
patrat18
patrat18 - 9/24/2013, 6:52 AM
Batmaniac - agreed.
sameoldthing
sameoldthing - 9/24/2013, 6:53 AM
Yea..no kill rule is childish.
Given the situation & story,Supes may have to kill a bitch.
He's not The Punisher..hey,that would be a cool Elseworlds/What If? comic book crossover:

Superman is a grown man with family but after returning to war off-planet against an alien race,Krypton is destroyed killing his entire race.
He tracks down the planet killers to Earth,he seems outnumbered but discovers he has powers..kills the aliens & becomes SUPER-PUNISHER!
Killing murderous beings across the galaxy. Yay!
RichardHedski
RichardHedski - 9/24/2013, 6:53 AM
I never had a problem with Supes killing Zod. It was shocking and unexpected but I understood why he did what he did. The fact that some people don't get it is baffling. Also tired of the Goyer bashing.
RichardBoldly
RichardBoldly - 9/24/2013, 6:55 AM
TheWolverine08
TheWolverine08 - 9/24/2013, 6:56 AM
The situation felt forced, and having Lois run for Clark to lay his head on didn't help either.
Highflyer
Highflyer - 9/24/2013, 6:58 AM
@McNyagano

LOL... IKR!
NeoBaggins
NeoBaggins - 9/24/2013, 6:58 AM
I don't know why they feel they have to explain this.

The two groups that have a problem with this are one; idiots too stupid to understand the context in which Zod is killed, and two; haters pretending to be too stupid to understand the context in which Zod is killed.
McNyagano
McNyagano - 9/24/2013, 6:58 AM
@TheWolverine08

Agreed. Snyder executed it horribly in my opinion.
superotherside
superotherside - 9/24/2013, 6:59 AM
I think it's funny that people want all the DC heroes to not kill now...

Green Arrow
Batman
Superman

But when it comes to Marvel no one has a problem?

The whole not killing thing came out of censorship back in the 50's. Even Cap and Iron Man had to put up with it. Even today in comics they still have a sort of no killing idea with most of it just because of tradition.

People need to read comics to understand some of this stuff.

If next season of Arrow and the next Superman movie have them both have a no killing thing that's going to be kinda stupid.

You can't fight someone without having the possibility of killing them it just doesn't work.

So if you don't want them to kill, you can't make them fight.

It's just as simple as that.
SpiderParker
SpiderParker - 9/24/2013, 7:00 AM
Superman killing Zod made sense but the way Goyer says it, its like he wants Superman to kill each of his enemy.
hatrick3
hatrick3 - 9/24/2013, 7:03 AM
Nolan made a huge deal about Batman not killing and then just ignored it. Batman killed Two-Face. And when Catwoman shot Bane all to Hell with his Bat-pod he didn't even flinch.
elib
elib - 9/24/2013, 7:05 AM
It wasn't like Superman killed the guy then took a shit on his corpse. He was still emotionally distraught about it, it wasn't easy for him. I thought it was a great element of the film that I hope echoes through future movies.
antbwan
antbwan - 9/24/2013, 7:05 AM
David Goyer is right, it was the only option to end the fight and save life's,plus by making Supes show agony in his decision!
Gigacrusher45
Gigacrusher45 - 9/24/2013, 7:06 AM
Why is anyone still talking about this? This movie presented a story in which Kal-El was becoming Superman. He was using his powers to the fullest for the first time. He wouldn't of thought to do the usual Superman stuff because he's never faced an opponent or experienced a challenge such as Zod.

Zod was a trained, military, warrior with a purpose. Superman was untrained, inexperienced, and struggling to find a purpose.

Get over it.
TheWolverine08
TheWolverine08 - 9/24/2013, 7:07 AM
LOIS, I LOVE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!
AsgardianHobo
AsgardianHobo - 9/24/2013, 7:09 AM
LOL, Goyer as screenwriter. Everyone knows he can barely string dialogue together, but guess what? Let's have him write EVERY DC movie from now on! *facepalm*
dnno1
dnno1 - 9/24/2013, 7:10 AM
All I can say is that they tried to hold Speed Racer to a similar rule when the Wachowski's made that film and we know what happened there (and we already know about "Superman Returns"). Lord knows what would have happened today if they kept Superman confined to rules like that.
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