Batman '89 - From the Archives - Michael Keaton & Tim Burton Talk Character

Don't get all the hate Keaton gets on this site sometimes. Batman will be reinvented and reimagined throughout time. Keaton's version was great to me. So is Bale. Several other actor will have their chance to interpret Batman in their own way as well. Not all will b spot on. The most we can hope for is that we never get a Schumacker version ever again...

batman & batman returns are good,but could of been better i personally don't think they've aged well.

Burton's & Keaton's Batman had a darker feel to them in my opinion. The Batsuits and achitechtural sets were far superior looking to Nolans GI Joe suits and Chicago sets as well. Burton made it feel like "Gotham".
I loved Ledger's Joker, but was dissapointed that Nolan had him in white makeup instead of the proper white skin.

Loved the Burton Batman films when I was a kid! Classic material for me!

I thought joker having no white skin was kinda what made it more real it not your normal accident causes supervillan story. Instead it's more creepy in he did it to himself or it's a more likely and actual common cause for real life crazies in that he wad abused at least that's the clues they give

I loved the Burton/Keaton movies/versions too. I like Nolan's movie also only TDK would rank 4th out of the four.
for me I would rank.

1-Batman
2-Batman Begins
3-Batman Returns
4-The Dark Knight

Batman Forever & Batman & Robin are disposable to me, although BF had its moments, Riddler just didn't do it for me.

I always liked Keaton, and miss his acting. I also understand everybodies love for TDK. I just didn't like it as much as the other three.

i liked keatons batman wish he was taller\bigger

but he did well didnt like his bruce wayne it

wasnt much different from his batman. not to mention

he's not a handsome fellow the only way he's getting

models at 5'8" and 150lbs will be because of his

millionare status. hated jack n as the joker and the

movie turned into a comedy half way thru and the rest

werent that good at all. i prefer what we have as

batman now and i loved ledgers joker but that's

just me. the one thing i dont like about tdk is the

bat-suit and the batmobile the 89 versions were way

better!!!!

@yossarian- Oh you mean just like Batman Begins? Where he couldn't move in that suit either? And does a character's mobolity really effect the overall film? No, it doesn't. What's wrong with backstory? The Joker DID have an offical origin y'know, and it was that an accident involving Batman had him fall into the vat of acid. And they used that in the film.

Also, the scripts for Batman and Batman Returns were both better than Batman Begins and TDK. The Nolan scripts are really bad, every other second there's a cheesey metaphor, or simply a cheesey line of dialouge. And of course the biggest problem is, Bale doesn't actually like Batman at all.

Also, Batman fights mimes and clowns in the comics ALL THE TIME, it's a part of the Batman Universe.People seem to think that Nolan's films are what Batman is really like, WRONG. The comics say differently. Batman is an unrealistic character, he never was and he never will be.


He's a superhero, that's it. Not all this crap in TDK about him not being a hero and shit.

Exactly @ arnold & roland...
There's no authentic joker back story. So IMO Jack's was great as well as Heath's. I think both actors (even Cesar Romero)potrayed the joker spot on according to how they were done in the comics according to their time. But Heath is by far the best. We can only hope that the next time the Joker does appear on the silverscreen (to torture gordon & shot bat girl in the back i hope), that the actor who plays him even trumps Heath.
To say TDK was cheesy...well that's a stretch

@arnold- I never said I didn't like Nolan's Batfilms or Heath's portrayal, I love those films and Heath's Joker, I just prefer Burton's.

And I'll give you a few examples, my personal favourite from BB is

"Someone like you, someone who'll rattle the cages" ...what is he a noir detective or something?

"I am merley Ducard, a man greatly feared by the Underworld" - Does he need to explain exactly who he is in the third person as well as so blatantly? He might as well have said

"My name is Ducard, I was born and raised in Egypt 2000 years ago blahhh blah blah"

"As a man I'm flesh and blood, I can be ignored, I can be destroyed but as a symbol....." Remember he's saying this directly to Alfred! No-one speaks like that! So for a movie that prides itself on realism it's script isn't very...well...realistic!

Everyone in these movies just explains everything through dialouge, it's a sign of poor decision making on the behalf of the director. You need to tell your story through more than just dialouge, or at least dialouge not so blatant and uneeded. Characters can't just come and explain everything in some half-assed speech. And there's always a metaphor! Why? Why the need for the constant metaphors.

"Ruby the size of a tangerine..." Really? Way to pull from your ass there Alfred.

@roland- You're right that in the world of comics today Joker has no specific origin. But during the 1980's the only known Joker origin was the vat of acid involving Batman. And it is also the most famous one too. The Joker killing Bruce's parents thing didn't really bother me as much, because it fit in with the story Burton was telling with his Batman movie. It had more of an impact, in the same way that Joe Chill in BB made more sense and was more effective story wise. BB pointed out that it was ironic how The Wayne's were gunned down by one of the very people they were trying to save. So it made sense.

Once again, I never said I didn't like Heath or that the Joker didn't have a backstory in TDK. I wasn't the one to bring it up.

And no, did he [frick] trump Nicholson's Joker. The Burton Joker was way closer to the comics, he was insane, he was eccentirc, he was unpredictable and he was a genius. People seem to forget that not only was Nicholson's Joker an amazing portrayal but that Nicholson himself is one of the greatest screen actors EVER. He's a better actor than Ledger I'm sorry to say.
I loved Heath's Joker as much as everyone, he was chilling, mysterious and scary..he did his job.

But he where was the spark? Where was the humour? The Joker's entire being is based off of conflicting with everything. So even though he is this happy clown, he's shooting people in the head and cutting them up. Ledger's was simply all gloom and doom with the occasional bit of dark humour. Nicholson portrayed the comicbook Joker more faithfully, that's a fact, Ledger portrayed the Joker hat combines elements from many different Jokers aswell as an added sense of philosophy. Something I admire greatly about Ledger's performance was that he made you think. I loved both Jokers equally in fact. But Heath does not "beat" or "trump" Nicholson.

@Ryden- Those are my exact feelings on the two Joker's. :)

@johnnykrypton- Yeah I know that's my point.

For those of you who hate Burton's Batman but love the animated series here's a quick tip for you: The animated series was based off of Burton's movies. Can't you tell from the theme song?

And Ledger's Joker wasn't Joker at all. He wasn't funny. He was an emo B****. Sure he was the best part of TDK but that is just saying how bad that movie really was. It certainly wouldn't have ever been as big as it was if Heath didn't die. Heath is a decent actor but his portrayal of the Joker felt more like he was portraying the Scarecrow or Black Mask. It certainly wasn't the Joker. There wasn't even any Joker gas in the movie for crying out loud!!! There were no gags or tricks just a stupid pencil. I'm so fed up with everyone's love affair with TDK. Bale sucks. He's a horrible Batman. The only cast members who deserve to be in the Batman series is Morgan Freeman and Gary Oldman. Now Gary Oldman should have played the Joker. That is an oscar winning performance!!!

To all those who are saying TDK was not better than Burton's portrayal's of the Batman, I am going to have to disagree for one simple reason:

That fantasy style of storytelling where there are too many loose ends and unexplainable incidents just does not appeal to the modern day audience. Nolan's version worked because he gave us what we wanted to see in this day and age.

To all those who disagree, go and check the reviews for the TDK on imdb and you'l see that the majority of fans absolutely loved that film. It's the measuring stick for all future comic book movies. Unfortunately everyone on here who prefers the Burton versions is part of a very small minority.
Ask yourself this... if Burton released the exact same versions of his two Batman films in 2010 instead of 89 and 92 would you connect with it?? I highly doubt it.

@flames- "what makes batman cool is not the place he lives in but what he does"

I'm pretty sure I didn't mention the setting of these movies, but gotham does have an impact. Gotham is a character itself. Burton's Gotham was dark, gothic, the way it should be...where as Nolan's was....downtown Chicago. Boring.

"and he's not a hero only on the justice league he's a vigilante a anti-hero so he's not a hero so the dark knight got it right if you like that idea or not"

Couldn't make much sense of that, but if you're trying to say that what was said at the end of TDK is right then you'e clearly never read a Batman comic in your life. Batman is a superhero, I don't care what that protentious prick of a director says, he's a superhero end of story.

"Nolan got batman right and joker right he's the only director that got the characters right and the mvie is not all realistic"

Once again you obviously lack a lot of knolwedge in regards to Batman. Nolan's series, although good, were not faithful, at all to the Batman comics. Especially with Batman and the Joker. batman is supposed to be the world's greatest detective and the smartest human alive, yet he has to rely on Lucius Fox for everything and get's all bitchy over Rachel. Batman doesn't do that.

"And Nolan joker was scary, crazy, smart, always had a plan, was a step ahead of the cops and batman and had humor like dressing up as a nurse and saying hi to harvey and then you have him being pyshco killing people that put thugs un jail like the judge and the cominsoner isn't that what joker does in cartoon and comics? "

I think you've missed my point. I said that heath's Joker wasn't as eccentric as the comic book Joker, and he onlyhad his occasional moments of dark humour. What you described was one of those moments. Bu certain things from the comics and cartoon that help DEFINE the Joker's antics are missing, the Joker gas for example. The killing gags. None of that was there.

@arnold- Yeah you're right, movies are subjective...and you're certainly right in regards to the Hulk. I can't beleieve anyone could like Ang Lee's piece of trash :-O. See the thing is about all of the silly things in Bjurton's movies, it seems silly now because a lot of people watch that movie with TDK in mind, and it seems out of place. where as if you watch it within the context if it's own universe it fits in perfectly fine.

@voltage- Since when does the majority mean anything? I mean the majority of people in the world like Justin Beiber but it doesn't make him good does it? TDK was hyped to hell, it was a great movie, but not a great BATMAN movie. And that's what it should be first and foremost. If it were released today, yeah I'd still love it. Because it has a dramatic sense of adventure and fun, and that's what Batman;s supposed to be. Remember that at the end of the day, it's a comicbookmovie...and Batman is a superhero. I'd rather wtahc a movie that was fantastical and dark and wonderous instead of a steral, cold and less exciting version.

voltage101@ you stole my thunder with what you said about if Burtons Batman movies came out now, we wouldn't connect with them.

Ryden@ gotta disagree with your assessment that nicholsons joker was more of a genius than ledgers. He Nicholsons was a chemistry genius, which really didn't get explained properly, so falling into a vat of acid makes you a chemistry expert all of a sudden, lol. ledgers joker was a sociopathic genius. He was a step ahead of everyone the entire movie, how can you think of a scheme to have 2 ferrys held hostage with both rigged to explode and each boat having the others detonator, with the fear that if you don't blow them up 1st, they'll blow you up, oh and 1 ferry is full of jail inmates?...takes a certain type of genius to concoct something like that. Also, I don't say ledgers joker tops nicholsons to disparage jack, I just think ledgers joker was incredibly creepy.

people seem to be wrapped up in the joker being funny, the joker in the comics wasn't funny, he was a sociopathic killer, his 'jokes' were only funny to him. ledger didn't act as clownish in his portrayal, and nicholson acted more toward that side, I personally am more entertained by the less clownish, more creepy joker.

Also, Burtons Batman seemed dark back then, because it was a first, but looking back on it, it's like looking at a goth kid and saying 'that kid has a dark look'. It was what cbm's needed at that time to be taken seriously as stories with characters of real depth, and not just as comic book kid stuff. If not for Burtons Batman, we might still be dealing with 'Masters of the universe' quality cbms, so for that, I praise Burton :-)

@Ryden - about what you said about you liking Burton's versions if they were relased today. That's fair enough, each to their own you know, you are indeed entitled to your own opinion.

However, at the risk of sounding rude, Hollywood isn't designed to cater for your needs only buddy. That's what makes Nolan so successful. He knows what the MAJORITY of people want and then he delivers. Taste is a very subjective thing, so if you prefer Burton it's fair enough. My only point is that time's change, and I guess according to the majority of Batman fans today, Nolan got his portrayal of the Dark Knight on the money. The Dark Knight is the most successful cbm of all time, and for that reason it is safe conclude that most people today do indeed believe that Nolan's versions are better than Burton's.