The case for the R rated SuperHero.

The case for the R rated SuperHero.

To get real you need an R. As long as our Superheroes are confined to the kiddy world of PG-13 we will never see them reach their true potential. For some this is the only way to go...

Editorial Opinion
By TheDarqueOne - Sep 23, 2010 04:09 PM EST
Filed Under: Other

We do not live in a PG-13 world.

According to the MPAA if you use the word [frick] more than once you reach the level of R. By that standard it is quite clear that we live on at least an R rated planet. Real life cannot be done under the PG-13 rules.

I will admit that a PG-13 film and the SuperHero comics do have much in common. Both are places where things are quite a bit nicer than true reality. All the nasty things in life exist but they are quite a bit cleaner than they should be.

I can often tell the difference between a PG-13 and a R film in seconds because of one simple thing.

Blood.

In an R rated movie when you are shot you bleed.

Now to me for true Heros to shine they have to be contrasted with some real Villains. And you know today it takes a fair bit to get an audience to dislike someone. You have to get pretty nasty to even get people to really notice. We now live in a world with people who actually flew whole plane loads of people into buildings. They murdered thousands to make a political point.

What the hell has Dr. Doom, Green Goblin, or even Lex Luther ever done to even come close to that?

Nothing because 9/11 was real. But we will measure our Villains against a tougher standard now regardless. The world is a harsher place and for our Heros to prove their worth they have to face the worst of it head on.

I am not saying the Villains have to be straight out of the Saw movies but to reach true evil is not going to be an easy task. In PG-13 I think it is pretty much impossible.

I expect Hollyweird will continue to make the PG-13 CBMs because that is how you get a blockbuster. They all want that magic Billion $ mark now. But along with those big movies is a need for a number of other projects that will not be expected to hit the blockbuster level.

To date the films that have been rated R in our genre have not done all that well. But in today's Entertainment Industry few films actually flop. 300 did $450 in it's full release along with $250 in DVDs, $700 for a $60 ain't bad. The Matrix movies were quite successful despite their R.

To make a SuperHero movie work with an R rating you just have to find the right Character. I love the Blade movies but before I saw them I did not know who he was. Watchmen is an artistic triumph but not a mainstream SuperHero comic by any means. I think it is great but also depressing. In only a few places did I get the feelings I wish to get from my SuperHeros. They are supposed to fight the darkness not get all cuddly with it.

I would also like to point out that back in the 50s and 60s comics were more popular than video games are today. As other means of entertainment rose up comics did slowly decline. But even through the early 70s comics were very popular. What this means is that of the entire adult population of the US the number who have at some point been exposed to comics is actually pretty high.

In addition to that modern mainstream comics are targeted to adults not children. Marvel has books for kids now but those are separate series. So comics are not for kids anymore and lots of adults know something about SuperHeros and yet all we get are PG-13 movies?

So what sort of movie might break the R barrier? Lets just see...


W O L V E R I N E

Weapon X Unleashed!



In the comics you can cheat like crazy. They can swear and kill people by the truckloads. Comics can be graphic. I have seen pages that were literally dripping with blood. But as a general rule the mainstream ones avoid blood and lightly censor language.

How could anybody honestly expect a PG-13 movie about Wolverine to be any good? I knew it was going to suck before I sat down in the theater. He kills people. I have always been convinced that originally the design that became Wolverine was going to be a Villain. He is tough enough to withstand a whole Hero team. His weapons are intended for a single purpose which is to kill. He was a loaded gun with no safety and that make him interesting as a Hero.

Do that in a PG-13 movie. Nope. Not a chance.

Now imagine Logan in a movie where he can curse and kill with all the intensity he has displayed in the comics. His story could be told properly and everything that made him popular could be on the screen in all it's violent intensity.
I am not going to do anymore on this one. It would work rather well I think. Wolverine does not have the history of the original Marvels or the older DC icons but he has been around for a good long time. Put him in a realistic setting where he can be himself and you have movie gold.

Nuff said.

Always wanted to say that and never found the chance until now.


Hawkman & Hawkgirl

The Immortal love of the Hawks



For those of you who do not know the tale the Hawks are a cursed pair of lovers. They were born long ago and are locked into a harsh cycle of reincarnation. In each life they find the other and then the clock starts ticking. One of them will die, perhaps both when they are lucky. If they are not lucky one of the must go on until their death. Their love never fades and the grief is never very far away.

Romeo and Juliet died once. They have nothing on the Hawks in the tragedy department.

In addition to this unique love story you also have a pair of violent and majestic SuperHeros. Alone or as part of either the JSA or the JLA they are amazing. This tale could be absolutely gut-wrenching and at the same time contain highs and moments that would be thrilling. They soar and they lose. Time and time again. But they always find each other again.

After Scott and Jean the Hawks are my favorite romantic pair.


Moon Knight

Mystic Warrior



He seems tailor-made for an R-rated action movie. Done right the Egyptian connections work better than almost any other fantasy element. People have always had a special fondness for the land of the Nile and that would help this movie.

Moon Knight is similar to Batman but with enough differences to make him stand-out. The slight mystical side helps to make him a fine choice for a hard action movie.


D e a d p o o l



I am not going to write much about this one because I am not a Deadpool fan. Sorry but wise-ass people annoy me and except for Peter and May Parker so do Characters of that sort. Deadpool showed up long after I had stopped reading comics on a regular basis so I don't know him that well.

But if you were going to do him right it would have to be with an R. His combination of intense violence, comedy and plain old insanity would not work any other way. With a very creative director I think this movie could work. My only worry would be that Deadpool is not that well known outside of the community and selling the idea to others would be tricky.


S u p e r m a n



Bet you did not expect this one.

Anybody with the massive level of power that old Supes has would work but Superman himself would have the greatest impact. Just as he would on our world which is what this movie would be about.

A good Science Fiction movie is about the effect of something on a Society. This is often technology but it can be other things like oh say mutants. A good SF story can also be able what happens to the human race if an alien with unimaginable power takes up residence on our planet. You could go with the original origin story or you could try something a bit more modern.

The important deviation comes when you head not to the fictional Metropolis but to New York City.

This movie would best be told over a long span of time. Months at the very least, years would be better.

Superman would not have a job so the whole hiding behind glasses and manner business is out. He can produce whatever money he needs easily enough. He could pass as a normal person on the street with a little effort on his part. Change of hair color and clothes does a whole lot for example. I see him meeting Lois Lane in a park. Their story would be quite different since someone with the sort of power Supes has will have to be very careful about extended contact. Nobody is perfect and one tiny mistake could be deadly.

One example of how Superman's presence would affect the world would start with a Fan Club. Harmless enough and while he might be a bit embarrassed about that sort of attention it is easy enough to cope with. Time passes a bit and the Fans decide Superman is not doing enough. They decide they know what he should be doing and describe it in great detail.

This cause friction in the vast group which turns into the split. The more positive less controlling ones form a separate group. A year later this new group has all the trappings of a religion. A year later it is recognized as a true religion with Superman as their official deity.

How does a Superman deal with that?

In the beginning there will be so many things he can do. He can turn deserts into farmlands. Even the worst natural disaster will claim far, far fewer lives. War can eventually become obsolete. In short in the span of a handful of years the Man of Steel can make this world a far better place.

We will love him, worship him, and generally drive him right out of his super-mind. Never happen of course and purists would kill themselves but it would make a unique movie.

The picture of Superman in Black was just for shock value. I would want him in a new suit but certainly not that one. It does look cool though. *grins*


Final Thoughts

I believe that the CBM has established itself as a very viable type of movie. To me this means we will continue to see them for a very long time. Hollywood will get over it's obsession with the SuperHero Billion $$$ Blockbuster soon enough but the movies will go on.

What I would like to see is the whole range of possibilities explored. I just hope some of them are rated R and made for adults to enjoy.

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LEEE777
LEEE777 - 9/23/2010, 4:33 PM
Very insightful and thought provoking piece!

Much have taken you ages to do this, and all true, thumbs up!
TheDarqueOne
TheDarqueOne - 9/23/2010, 4:48 PM
Been working on it for about a week or so LEEE.

@Sooner

If they are going for the Blockbuster sure but there can only be a couple of those a year. I think over time there will be plenty of room for different movies. I get the main ones are going to stay PG-13 for now but I see a day when more gritty SuperHeros will get a chance.


LEEE777
LEEE777 - 9/23/2010, 4:49 PM
DarqueOne @ I can see man, nicely done!
MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 9/23/2010, 4:58 PM
Great article, very well written and while I would like a bit more intensity in many CBMs, I don';t think that they necessarily HAVE to be R rated. There are ways to get away with a lot under the pg rating, you just need a great director to do it! At the end of the day, the majority of comics are supposed to be enjoyed by a very wide demographic, I'm not sure the majority of CBMs should be any different.
skidz
skidz - 9/23/2010, 5:09 PM
The only titles that I can think of that deserve an R rating Xmen and Wolverine. X2 was okay without it (not by much) and Wolverine was flat out terrible with out it!
vermillion
vermillion - 9/23/2010, 5:15 PM
Superman... really? Okay then.
blah
blah - 9/23/2010, 5:18 PM
i do agree that the nastier the villain the better, and if a villain would do things that just make you really hate them it make the hero shine that much more. however you do not need blood to make a great film sometimes it does however make a scene more realistic, believable , and shocking so sometime it does need to be in the films to make a villain or something stand out more. it all depends you don't always need to go R to make a great film but sometimes you do. look at the dark knight the joker was taken as far as he could go evil wise for a pg film and he kinda made everyone shudder when he enter the room, but think of this the sound ,and whirrling that came up every time he entered a room also helped make him that much more eery. so its not just about blood or violence or this or that sometimes sound, or movements,or action make a villain seem so much more creep and evil.
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 9/23/2010, 5:19 PM
Well I for one hope WOLVERINE II has grit and actual BLOOD!

I've given up hope on the other X-movie, but WOLVIE in JAPAN, how can you go wrong with that?
blah
blah - 9/23/2010, 5:22 PM
i also think heros need to fall sometimes, it very rare to see this, but look at watchmen it happened in that film and sometime they should fall before they rise again. also some hero would take things farther then other heros and would kill like wolverine going berzerker wich you really dont get to see in the films. the best berzerker rage you really see is in x-2 when he is taking out the soldiers in the house. hero need to also lean toward the dark side sometimes but then there are heros that need to shine like cyclops and other golden heros.ok im done with my rant sorry just tired and getting some things out there later guys.
mwkcope
mwkcope - 9/23/2010, 5:28 PM
grif@THAT is Wolverine.
ecksmanfan
ecksmanfan - 9/23/2010, 5:38 PM
@TheDaruqOne- Great stuff man! Very interesting thoughts. I like the idea of all of them...except Superman. I don't think that would work as he appeals to such a wide range of followers. You would lose a huge portion of them by going that direction. Great article though!
conformist21
conformist21 - 9/23/2010, 5:41 PM
only lesser known characters can get rated R,
we can only wish way popular characters can get rated R,
and punisher and them are made for rated R,
but as far as WOlverine and maybe deadpool,
keep dreaming yo
BrotherQStark
BrotherQStark - 9/23/2010, 5:45 PM
Yes I thought I was the only one, I wish more CBM's were R-Rated
thegamedrex
thegamedrex - 9/23/2010, 5:49 PM
I wish Dragon Ball Z would get what it deserves, lets get the guys from the matrix (wachoske brothers) and james cameron from avatar and make a real DBZ movie exactly from the show but alot of stuff that took to long in the cartoon cut it out and speed it up. freeza saga, android saga, majin buu saga and dragon saga. olivia wild as android 18.
TheDarqueOne
TheDarqueOne - 9/23/2010, 6:12 PM
Just for the record here: The version of Superman I described is not what I want to see next. It was simply to really showcase the idea.

@Intruder & @Sooner

Kudos for your perception gentlemen. The Superman concept is both something I considered when thinking about what Nolan would do and it has parts that came from my ideas for a Hancock follow-up.

@DannyRand

High praise indeed sir. Thank you.

My point is really that once you cross the R barrier you have almost complete freedom to do what you wish. Still have to tell a good Story and do all the normal things to make a good movie but you can get much closer to real when that is helpful.

For me Watchmen is about what happens when SuperHeros fail. In that world the bad guys won. It was not explained in the movie but the effects were everywhere. I think it is brilliant but really the complete opposite of the normal CBM point of view.
AlexDeLarge87
AlexDeLarge87 - 9/23/2010, 6:23 PM
Wolverine comics rules because its gritty appearance and bloody violence! That how they should make the movies too! If they are not going to do it right, i say LEAVE IT A F*CKING ALONE THEN!
MassExecutions
MassExecutions - 9/23/2010, 6:23 PM
Yes, yes, 100 times yes. Except for the Superman thing. That's just like that guy from awhile back that wanted a Superman story that was more like Silver Surfer. Its interesting, just not that character.

The violence required for Wolverine and Deadpool just can't be done with PG-13. The lack of blood and corpses just breaks the suspension of disbelief. Moon Knight too, to a lesser extent, but you could really make his psychologically messed up to a rated R extent.

Your point about 9/11 is well taken, but I'd just like to remind everyone we have lived in a relatively tame part of history. Don't forget the holocaust, the soviet death camps, and all the atrocities from ancient times. People have pretty much always been horrible. We have lived in an exceptionally tame time and place.
Superzero
Superzero - 9/23/2010, 6:24 PM
@TheDarqueOne
To quote a part of your article on "Watchmen"...
"Watchmen is an artistic triumph but not a mainstream SuperHero comic by any means. I think it is great but also depressing. In only a few places did I get the feelings I wish to get from my SuperHeros. They are supposed to fight the darkness not get all cuddly with it."

...mow did you read the comic or just watch the movie? With the exception of Dr.Manhattan, most of the characters start off as "normal", if there is such a thing, superheroes. Through the course of the story the heroes decline along with the society they try to protect. It's SUPPOSED to be depressing at least as an illustrative point. It's not that they "get all cuddly with it" as much as it is that they collapse under the weight of the job itself. Now, I'm thinking of the comic here but the movie is pretty much on the nose too.

As far as Wolverine, Deadpool, and Moon Knight? R is the way to go. Hard and bloody. An R rated SUPERMAN movie. That is the most retarded thing I've ever heard of. I'd rather see Will Smith as Thor or Jonah Hill as the Flash. Taking characters like Superman and putting them in an R rated situation is COMPLETELY against type and character, which is something that is needed for ANY good CBM. Search the net for Frank Miller's script for "Batman:Year One" it was going to be directed by Darren Aronofsky and was replaced by Nolan and Batman Begins. Which is a good thing. It was a hard R script and a total piece of shit. Oddly enough it was nothing like the comic or even Batman at all. Bruce Wayne wasn't even a millionaire. He was a crazy guy who lived above a garage. Yes, people bled and swore but it SUCKED. Badly.
We do need some R rated CBMs. Daredevil would have been much better with that little letter on the poster. If the rating fits and WORKS with the CHARACTER I'm all in. If we're talking about an R rated Spider-man, Batman, or even PowerPack? I'll stay home and cry in my beer.
Luigi
Luigi - 9/23/2010, 6:25 PM
Sorry if this has already been said, but PG-13 movies can say "[frick]" twice now. An example on the top of my head is Lakeview Terrace.
AlexDeLarge87
AlexDeLarge87 - 9/23/2010, 6:26 PM
Mass@ Couldnt agree more.
Magicfingers
Magicfingers - 9/23/2010, 6:39 PM
Need an R-rated Weapon-X.
Must have an R rated Deadpool.
Don't need a hard core Superman, but we do need one that actually FIGHTS his enemies in hand-to-hand combat.
The rest are debatable.
Hawksblueyes
Hawksblueyes - 9/23/2010, 7:20 PM
Extremely interesting article Darque. I have to agree with Ror almost completely.

A perfect example would be Wolverine. I don't think we have to see the blood, if we get the intent. X-2 in the mansion was classic Logan all the way. As was X-3 in the woods when he was after Jean. We know exactly how ferocious and mean he can be from the comics, and none of them are for mature audiences only. The failure with him in the movies is the writing.

I do agree with you on Deadpool (and there are other characters like him). I think the violence and language could be done properly with a PG-13. HOWEVER, for Deapools humor to shine properly I think it has to be R all the way. When you hack someone apart it's one thing. When you hack someone apart while you're having an imaginary conversation with Bee Arthur about a the persons thigh being your Thanksgiving turkey, it's another matter all together.
IronicMan
IronicMan - 9/23/2010, 7:32 PM
Nah man, this is supposed to be escapism. Alright, it's a little unrealistic to have Wolverine stab somebody and not have any blood, but for the most part people go to movies, especially big, silly superhero fare, to escape the real world and it's all-too-real villains. And you don't need gore/swearing to create a great villain, look at the acts of the Joker in the Dark Knight. He killed numerous people, but we didn't have to see one drop of blood to get the point. It's down to better writing, not over the top violence or language.
WakeUp
WakeUp - 9/23/2010, 7:33 PM
I like the Hawk" idea, for characters who go into battle with a spiked mace, seems like it would get messy
TheDarqueOne
TheDarqueOne - 9/23/2010, 7:56 PM
@SuperZero

I never read the entire comic series but I have researched the story and had some Fans explain it to me in major detail. They were attempting to convince me how brilliant it was and they pretty much succeed.

The world of Watchmen is run by former SuperVillains in suits. The Heros tried to make things better but in fact they lost and the world went to hell. I think it is brilliant but just not a normal CBM and not a good indication of what an r-rated CBM can be.

And since you obviously cannot get past my alteration of Superman how about you try this. Substitute 'Guardian' for Superman and see what you think of the idea.

@Luigi

I think the rule is one obvious use of the word but you can sneak in a few minor ones too. But this is in contrast to all the people I hear every day who can barely get through a single sentence without the use of the word. There are whole segments of Society that cannot be depicted realistically because of this stupid language limitation.

@Anil Rickly

Hollywood does in fact make a bunch of R rated movies every single year. I agree they are money hungry scum but they do make things other than the Blockbusters.

I just think some of those could be CBMS. Really don't see that as all that impossible.

@IronicMan

People go to the movies for a lot of different reasons. For some a movie like Kill Bill was perfect escapist fare. I happen to be one of them.

@Everybody

I appreciate all the positive comments and the various points of view. But for some reason the down thumbs seem to be way ahead of the up. If a few of you who said 'excellent' would give me a thumbs up I would appreciate it. I can accept people not liking me or the article but overall I think the response has been pretty positive.
Hawksblueyes
Hawksblueyes - 9/23/2010, 8:08 PM
You got a thumbs up from me bud. I have never figured out the thumbs up or down situation. I have posted articles that people have given thumbs down because they didn't like the news reported. I have written editorials that had a bunch of thumbs up when everyone disagreed with what I said.

I try my best to present a good looking informative article and not pay attention to the thumbs thingy.

You just did that. It is well written, well thought out and presented nicely. Pay no attention to the thumbs.
AverageCitizen99
AverageCitizen99 - 9/23/2010, 8:09 PM
Good article! :)
I do believe that there are characters who are best suited for this rating like the ones mentioned above but a film rating doesn't necessarily tell if the film is going to be good or not. It's like looking at a horror film, people who get a whiff of a PG-13 rating are going to bash it without having even seen it. And there have been some good stuff from that genre in that age range. But like what Ror said above, people can get away with alot of stuff under the PG ratings. Look at the Dark Knight, you had a guys mouth cut off-screen, a man's face on fire, various people shot and killed, and it was all under the PG-13 banner.I forget but I do think there are other films that I can't remember but have also gotten away with other dark and disturbing stuff. I think, rating or not, the Wolverine film could have been good under a PG-13 rating had the script been any good. In the end of the day that is where it all goes down to: the quality of the script and whomever is involved in the project. I do hope to see more CBMs go unto this territory, but only if it is necessary for them and that is not being pushed onto them just for the sake of getting the rating. Watchmen and the others you mentioned were good examples of R-rated superhero films and Hollywood will serve as an obstacle because of recent pictures like the latter and the Punisher flicks. You made a great article and I'm glad to have just discovered it. :)
Bandrews1
Bandrews1 - 9/23/2010, 8:14 PM
This is a great article, but a R rated Superman movie is kind of stupid if you ask me.
MassExecutions
MassExecutions - 9/23/2010, 8:21 PM
Okay, maybe you can make a decent Wolverine film at PG-13, but it reduces the tension. Blood make it serious and you feel like peoples' actions have more consequence.

Its worse to see a villain get a hold of someone when you know you can see what will happen. When a hero has to shed blood you can better feel the weight of it on him if he feels it, or his callousness if he's been pushed over the edge.

All this is beside the suspension of disbelief argument. When certain actions happen, you expect to see blood and bodies, and when you don't your taken out of the moment.
TheDarqueOne
TheDarqueOne - 9/23/2010, 8:26 PM
@AverageCitizen

No one thing determines if a film is good or bad. You do your best and hope it works. I don't think you should go for R just to do it but because the subject matter would be best done that way.

@Bandrews1

Try substituting 'Guardian' for 'Superman' in that description. I know people are freaking out over that sort of Superman movie but I think the idea has merit regardless of who the Hero happens to be.

@Hawksblueyes

Thanks for the info on the thumbs. I had tried to understand exactly how they were used around here and not gotten anywhere.




Technoman
Technoman - 9/23/2010, 8:46 PM
HeroES
SymbioteJoker
SymbioteJoker - 9/23/2010, 8:50 PM
Excellent article! wolverine, deadpool, and ghost rider deserve r ratings to better portray the characters. Although i dont think superman's rating is the problem. What superman might need is a new villian. Dont get me wrong Lex is great, but hes been done. Give me a live action doomsday,darkseid,or brainiac and Im willing to pay to see it. Lex could still make an appearence. Im just tired of seeing the "villain gets kryptonite" senario.
TheDarqueOne
TheDarqueOne - 9/23/2010, 8:55 PM
@Technoman

Sorry I hate that version. Always have. I do weird Caps too again sorry to those that offends.

@SymbioteJoker

I was not offering a suggestion for the next Superman movie actually. It was a concept for the future and not for the mainstream Man of Steel.

Cole91
Cole91 - 9/23/2010, 8:57 PM
There is no reason for a Superman film to be rated R. Also Dark Knight was PG13, but that was HARDLY a "kiddie movie".
TheGambitFreak
TheGambitFreak - 9/23/2010, 8:58 PM
Thanks, good job.
Been supporting R rated CBM's since I was 15.
Rhys
Rhys - 9/23/2010, 9:03 PM
Wolverine and Deadpool movies MUST to be R!!! I could care less if a Moon Knight or the Hawks even got a movie at all....

Immortal Iron Fist,
Heroes for Hire,
and Daredevil would all work BEST rated R.
thetrubatman14
thetrubatman14 - 9/23/2010, 9:46 PM
DUDE YOUR COMPLETLEY RIGHT.
amrvel nights should have all rated r movies such as DAREDEVIL!!!
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