How Different The Marvel Cinematic Universe Would Be If The Marvel Creative Committee Was Never Formed.

How Different The Marvel Cinematic Universe Would Be If The Marvel Creative Committee Was Never Formed.

A summary on how different the MCU would be if Kevin Feige and Marvel Studios became directly part of Disney immediately after Marvel was purchased and the Marvel Creative Committee was never formed.

Editorial Opinion
By brodie999 - Aug 06, 2018 03:08 PM EST
Filed Under: Marvel Studios
Source: Brodie Marschall

After 10 years, The Marvel Cinematic Universe is  the highest-grossing and most successful franchise based on a superhero universe. They have committed mistakes along the way, but they are known for learning from them. But without the Marvel Creative Committee, Marvel may not have made those mistakes and some specific Marvel films, such as Thor: The Dark World and Iron Man 2 may have been better. The Marvel Cinematic Universe may be one of Hollywood's "tent-poles". But they may be even more so if the Creative Committee was never formed.   James Gunn quoted "The difficult thing about judging the influence of the Creative Commitee is that it really isn't known how much power they had. Could a director just ignore their notes and move on or would that just make them complain louder?"

James Gunn has said a few things about the Commitee which led thousands of fans to believe they had some influence over what ends up on screen. In a Facebook Q&A, he said that a committee gave him "messy" notes about Ronan the Accuser, resulting in the villain being a poor character. Perhaps, that is only gunn using a scapegoat to explain away a bad villain, but he did not stop there. In Vanity Fair, Gunn stated that the Committee wished to remove the Awesome Mix from the film. I doubt Gunn would be complaing about the Committee had they just been something he could ignore, which perhaps illuminates a bigger issue: how much did the Committee know about filmmaking?"



As I stated above, Thor: The Dark World may have been better, making 19 of the MCU films well-received commercially and critically. Marvel would have had much more control over the former if they convinced Universal to allow them to take the shots of the film. However, If I were to go back in time and change things, here's how the MCU would have been.





 



Iron Man 2

Image of iron man 2 posters

In Iron Man 2, Ivan Vanko could have been a full-fledged human being. Mickey Rourke vowed never to work on a superhero film after Marvel ruined his performance. One bad quote such as "I can make salute" seriously made fans outraged. Seriously, what was The Creative Committee thinking? But that might have changed if his performance was better. Demon In a Bottle would have been the main storyline instead of borrowing elements from various Iron Man storylines.
Iron Man 3

Image of iron man 3 posters


When Iron Man 3 was in production, Jon Favreau was set to direct Iron Man 3. But after the poor results from Iron Man 2, he refused to do so. Rebecca Hall was upset that she wasn't promised that she would be a female version of the Mandarin. Had the MCC not gotten involved, she could have been the main villain and the first female villain to do so, making Hela the second female villain to be the main antagoinst. At this point, fans have realised how big Marvel made a mistake to kill her off in the third act of the film. And it would have been much longer as it would have been 3 hours and 15 minutes. But Disney/Marvel wouldn't have let that happen anyway. Perhaps, Jon Favreau would have still been director  of Iron Man 3.

Thor: The Dark World

Image result for thor: the dark world posters


In 2011, Patty Jenkins was set to direct Thor: The Dark World, but Marvel fired her because of creative differences. Alan Taylor was not fond of doing the film as he was given a lot of freedom when he was filming only for Execustive meddling to change everything in post-production and Natalie Portman threatened to leave Marvel in protest of Jenkins's firing and only stayed on because it was less trouble than potentially getting sued for breach of contract. Had the Creative Commitee never been formed, Jenkins could have been the first female director to direct both Marvel and DC films.And The Dark World could have been a lot different because it would have a "Romeo & Juliet" feel to it. Jenkins could have at least made amends and been allowed to produce the film, causing DC and Marvel fans to finally unite as J.J Abrams united Mission: Impossible, Star Trek and Star Wars fans by directing Mission : Impossible III, the first two Star Trek reboot films and Star Wars: The Force Awakens.


Avengers: Age of Ultron

Image result for avengers: age of ultron posters


In Avengers: Age of Ultron, Hulk abandoned the Avengers in one of  the Quinjets. But things would have been different had he been jettisoned  into outer space just as in the comics. But Marvel overruled that as they feared people would want a Planet Hulk film. Joss Whedon filmed a sub-plot where Thor searches for the Norm Stones. But Marvel told him to either cut the farm scene or the Nord cave as the movie was becoming too long. If the Marvel Creative Commitee never formed, this would have been a reality.


Ike Perlmutter has been largely responsible for Marvel Studios reorganised under Disney for allowing the MCC take control of their films and ruining plots they planned for them. If Kevin Feige never reported to him, the landscape at the Marvel Cinematic Universe would have been quite different.


 
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brodie999
brodie999 - 8/7/2018, 10:37 PM
@TheDayman, @noahthegrand, @CaptainWagner, @BIGBMH,
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 8/8/2018, 9:11 AM
You're off to a decent start! However, I think you need to incorporate quotes and facts about the creative committee to support your claims and establish greater legitimacy. Right now, a lot of this feels like conjecture based on the idea that the creative committee was everything that was wrong with Marvel Studios and that all the issues with their weaker films would have been fixed without them. Unless you have concrete evidence linking them to the specific issues you address, you can't really make the claim that the films would have been better without them.

At points, you conflate the committee with the will of Ike Perlmutter and other corporate decisions like the Iron Man 3 female villain situation. There are a lot of things mentioned here that I don't believe have ever been directly linked to the creative committee. Then there are the bits about casting. I don't believe Don Cheadle was ever in talks for the first Iron Man film and since there's no evidence of the creative committee keeping him out of that movie, speculation about how things would have been if he had taken the role then doesn't belong in this article. In regard to the bit about Leterrier wanting Ruffalo but Marvel going a different way, once again I don't think there's any evidence to point to that being the creative committee's doing.

Putting that aside for a moment, in terms of writing style I think you need to introduce facts like that rather than assuming your reader knows them. Something like "Back in 2013, Incredible Hulk director Louis Leterrier revealed that Mark Ruffalo was his first pick to play Bruce Banner." You can keep it simple but start with background information, give a brief explanation of how a situation played out and how it affected a movie, then transition to how you think it would have been different (based on evidence).

I'd say the key here is research. Give us everything you can find on the creative committee, their process, their clashes with directors/writers, etc. Then synthesize that and make notes of patterns to give an overall sense of the kind of feedback they gave and how that negatively affected certain movies. From there, ground most of your article in hard facts, quotes, and anecdotes about the movies negatively affected by the creative committee. With that foundation, you can speculate on how the films would've been better without them. For movies that we don't have hard evidence of the creative committee hurting, you can speculate about them, but you have to admit that it's speculation by using words like "perhaps" "possibly" and "may have."

Also, your title is missing the i in "Dfferent."
brodie999
brodie999 - 8/8/2018, 2:21 PM
@BIGBMH -I know the Marvel Creative Committee didn't get involved with the casting of Norton and Howard. But if Mark Ruffalo and Don Cheadle were cast as James Rhodes and Bruce Banner from the beginning, Iron Man 1 and the Incredible Hulk may have been rated much higher. And thanks for the advice. Could you please give me advice on what background information I should post on Iron Man 2 and 3, Thor: The Dark World and Age Of Ultron? And what quotes do you think I should incorporate?
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 8/8/2018, 3:05 PM
@brodie999 - I get what you're saying about Ruffalo and Cheadle, but since your article is specifically about the effects of the creative committee, that's irrelevant here. Maybe it's material for another article.

As for quotes, you've gotta do some digging. The only concrete thing I know of is what James Gunn said about them wanting him to cut the music.

https://geektyrant.com/news/marvel-studios-creative-committee-wanted-james-gunn-to-cut-the-awesome-soundtrack-in-guardians-of-the-galaxy

As this article points out, we really don't know a lot about the committee's influence, which makes it difficult to definitively say certain things would be different without them.

"The difficult thing about judging the influence of the Creative Committee is that it really isn't known how much power they had. Could a director just ignore their notes and move on or would that just make them complain louder? James Gunn has said a few things about the Committee which lead me to believe they had some influence over what ends up on screen. In a Facebook Q&A, he said that a committee gave him "messy" notes about Ronan, resulting in the villain being a poor character. Maybe that's just Gunn using a scapegoat to explain away a bad villain, but he doesn't stop there. In Vanity Fair, Gunn said that the Committee wanted to remove the Awesome Mix from the movie. I doubt Gunn would be complaining about the Committee if they had just been something he could ignore, which perhaps illuminates a bigger issue: how much did the Committee know about filmmaking."

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2317962/how-has-marvels-elimination-of-the-creative-committee-changed-the-mcu


I'd also get rid of that list of people that hated the committee. First off, it's clearly taken from a Reddit post on the subject with no credit given to the poster and only minor tweaks to the wording. A lot of that is unverified since you don't take the next step and search for the original sources that the poster used for these examples. Many of these are not directly linked to the creative committee, so unless you can find the link you have to speculate and say that perhaps some of these things were their influence.

The list also throws off the structure of your article. Rather than putting that all right there, incorporate the relevant points into your discussion of the individual films. For example, if you can verify all of these, use the bits about Alan Taylor and Natalie Portman in your discussion of TDW. I'd leave out the Christopher Eccleston bit because it doesn't seem related to the creative committee.
brodie999
brodie999 - 8/8/2018, 3:37 PM
@BIGBMH - Okay, I've edited the page to have the changes you wanted. What do you think? I finally planned out a plot for Mark Millar's Ultimatum. What do you think I should do to flesh out about the plots of it and Ultimates 3?https://www.comicbookmovie.com/comics/marvel_comics/mark-millar-could-have-done-the-ultimates-3-and-ultimatum-better-a160252
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 8/8/2018, 4:54 PM
@brodie999 - Nice work! I think both are an improvement.
brodie999
brodie999 - 8/8/2018, 5:07 PM
@BIGBMH - Thanks! I think the Ultimate Cabal as "The Universal Order" fits their plans in Ultimatum really well. Mark Ruffalo gets the spotlight as the Hulk and Patty Jenkins has done a great job with Wonder Woman, so The Dark World and the Incredible Hulk would be certified fresh just like all the other MCU movies. Hey, I made articles about Iron Man 4, Captain America: Secret Empire and Thor: The Ballard of Beta Ray Bill, the revamped Avengers: EMH Season 2 and a live-action Smallville Season 11. What do you think of them?
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/marvel_studios/my-vision-on-how-marvel-would-develop-iron-man-4-captain-america-4-and-thor-4-a161171
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/comics/marvel_comics/the-avengers-earths-mightiest-heroes-season-2revision-a162174
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/superman/smallville/smallville-what-should-happen-in-a-live-action-season-11-a162292
brodie999
brodie999 - 8/9/2018, 5:14 PM
@BIGBMH - Hey, Big. I've got a question for you. If the MCU was different with all these ideas(including Mark Ruffalo as the Hulk in the Incredible Hulk, even though the CC had nothing to with it), what would your predictions for the updated tomato meter score and critical consensus for TIH, Iron Man 2 and 3, The Dark World and AOU be?
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 8/9/2018, 5:37 PM
@brodie999 - It's tough to say, but I think more of them would've ended up in the mid 80s. IMO, Incredible Hulk already deserved that score. I've never understood what people thought was so wrong with it and I preferred Norton's take over Ruffalo's. It was cool to see Banner apply his intelligence to adapt to his new lifestyle and skillfully avoid capture. There's a drive to his character that I've never really seen with Ruffalo's take.
brodie999
brodie999 - 8/9/2018, 5:49 PM
@BIGBMH -Well, he rewrote the script that Zak Penn made for the Incredible Hulk and possibly cut most of the scenes out of the movie. That's what went wrong with the movie. If Mark Ruffalo was cast from the beginning, he would've nailed Banner's fugitive side just as much as Norton. I think the Incredible Hulk would've ended up at 79%, Iron Man 2 and Age of Ultron could've been at 81%, Thor: the Dark World would've probably been at 82% and Iron Man 3 would've been 85%.
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 8/10/2018, 12:05 AM
@brodie999 - We really don't know if Zak Penn's script was better or worse. Also, everything I've read and heard suggests that scenes were cut against Norton's wishes. He very well may have been responsible for a lot of the things that worked about the movie and it may have turned out even better if they gave him more control. For all we know, Zak Penn's script could've been weaker and Ruffalo would've stepped in an adequately played the role in a lackluster film without bringing the kind of passion to it that Norton did in trying to make it better.
brodie999
brodie999 - 8/10/2018, 12:13 AM
@BIGBMH -Well, if those scenes made the cut, the movie would've been better by exploring General Ross's backstory. And if Norton was cast as Igor Drenkov instead, he still would've brought that kind of passion in making the movie with Ruffalo, although not as much. And seeing how his scripts for The Avengers and X2 turned out to be great, his script for the Incredible Hulk would've been better if Norton didn't screenwrite it as much in a small, restricted role. Even Mark Hughes said he wasn't right for playing Bruce Banner.
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 8/10/2018, 12:23 PM
@brodie999 - But Whedon rewrote Penn's Avengers script, so we really don't know how great it was to start. In fact, Whedon's comments suggest that the Penn draft was weak.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2014/07/joss-whedon-first-avengers-script-disaster

Penn has a Story by credit on X2, not a Screenplay by credit. However, he has co-screenwriter credits on lackluster films like X-men: The Last Stand and Elektra. That doesn't make him a bad writer, but he's inconsistent enough that I don't think there's much grounds to say that his script for Incredible Hulk would have been better had it not been rewritten.
brodie999
brodie999 - 8/10/2018, 1:54 PM
@BIGBMH - Okay, so even if Norton was cast in a different role in the Incredible Hulk, he'd still rewrite Penn's TIH script. He recently called Marvel out for the bad script for the movie. So it's likely the movie would've been better with Ruffalo in the lead role.https://screenrant.com/edward-norton-incredible-hulk-script-marvel-shot/
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 8/10/2018, 3:21 PM
@brodie999 - But I doubt he would've had the clout to rewrite it in a supporting role or as much motivation to do so. The only other time I've heard of an actor getting that involved with the writing of an MCU movie is Paul Rudd with Ant Man. But he's another lead. You don't hear about supporting actors, even well established ones like Hopkins, Redford, or Douglas, trying to exert much creative control.
brodie999
brodie999 - 8/10/2018, 3:29 PM
@BIGBMH - But Norton would do a much better job as Igor Drenkov than he ever was for Bruce Banner. Look at Seth Rogen. He produced and directed some movies like The 40-Year-Old Virgin and This is The End, even though he was in a supporting role. So I think Norton would've done the same thing. That'd make him the first supporting actor to rewrite a script for a superhero movie.
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 8/10/2018, 6:00 PM
@brodie999 - That's a very different situation though. In the case of The 40 Year Old Virgin, Rogen has been collaborating with Judd Apatow for years. Apatow kind of took him under his wing after Freaks and Geeks. This Is The End was very much his project from the beginning. He co-wrote, co-directed, and co-produced it with his longtime creative partner Evan Goldberg through their production company, Point Grey Pictures.

That's very different than a film produced by Marvel and Universal bringing an actor like Norton on late in the game to play a supporting part. Therefore, it's a far-fetched scenario to imagine Ruffalo as the lead and Norton still taking an active creative role in the development of the film's story as a supporting actor.
brodie999
brodie999 - 8/10/2018, 8:46 PM
@BIGBMH - Yeah, but if Marvel convinced Universal to let them take the shots on doing the movie, they would've had much control just like they're doing with the MCU Spider-Man movies distributed by Sony.
brodie999
brodie999 - 8/14/2018, 10:41 PM
@BIGBMH - You know. If Iron Man 3, Avengers: Age of Ultron and Infinity War were given 2 post-credits scenes, they would be like this:

Iron Man 3: HYDRA agents are walking through the hallway of the base. Then they come across towards and contact an unknown voice. The voices tells them Cross Technologies have started working on "the suit". And then says soon, they will replicate it to unleash chaos on the world. This would foreshadow the first Ant-Man film.

Avengers: Age of Ultron: Right before Thor leaves Earth to find out about the Infinity Stones, he gives Mjolnir to Captain America, Tony Stark and Vision. They come across an elevator to see if it's worth of going up. When the door closes in front of them, Cap and Tony seem shocked while Vision isn't surprised. Tony says he was right about the elevator and Cap gives him 10 bucks. He then says he wishes he was worthy of lifting Mjolnir. The scene ends with Tony saying "Language!".

Avengers: Infinity War: Clint Barton is just chilling outside his house, chopping wood and enjoying his retired life. But then suddenly, he hears a scream. He sprints inside the house, and he sees something he can't possibly ignore: his wife holding two of his children, who were disintegrating, while the other runs up to home and disintegrates right in front of him. He then makes eye contact with his wife, and the screen fades to black as she disappears as well.

Ant-Man could've at least appeared in a deleted scene where Cap tries to convince him to help fight Thanos and his army, but he refuses because he has to help Hank Pym harvest particles from the Quantum Realm. This'd have give them a chance to get involved before Avengers 4 comes out.
noahthegrand
noahthegrand - 8/8/2018, 10:29 PM
Nice! It’s cool to see what could have been, and I always thought Rebecca Hall would have been a better main villain twist than it turning out to be Guy Pierce
brodie999
brodie999 - 8/8/2018, 11:53 PM
@noahthegrand -Thanks, Noah. It would've been nice to see Mark Ruffalo and Don Cheadle cast as Bruce Banner and War Machine from the beginning in the Incredible Hulk and Iron Man 1. Norton and Howard could have been restricted to small roles as Igor Drenkov and Moses Magnum and Norton's Russian accent would be amazing. If Patty Jenkins made amends with Marvel and came back as producer/writer of Thor: The Dark World, all of the MCU movies(including The Dark World and the Incredible Hulk) would be certified fresh. All these ideas could've made Marvel even more of a "tent-pole" for Hollywood.
brodie999
brodie999 - 1/13/2019, 1:13 PM
@noahthegrand - Remember what you said about how Rebecca Hall would've been the main villain in Iron Man 3, I've thought about it and I feel like if Shane Black urged the Marvel Creative Committee to let Marvel have more control over the film, the movie could've been much longer at the runtime of 3 hours and 15 minutes. But that wouldn't have happened anyway. What kind of influence did the Marvel Creative Committee had on Ant-Man and Guardians of the Galaxy and how would all of that changed if Marvel Studios was always in charge on their own?
brodie999
brodie999 - 1/13/2019, 1:14 PM
@noahthegrand -@Comicbookart - @Synthesis - @OmegaDeGrodd - @ILoveStargirl - @HeavyMetal4Life - @MarkCassidy - @PewPewPew - @smgmayhem - @MalseMarcel - @AlexanderLykins - @LongMayHeReign - @TheworthyThor - @MarvelDCAllDay - @JoshWilding - @JDL - @MrMartyMarvel - @Brave - @marvel72 - @MarkV - @MrCamw1 - @ThunderKat - @CavailerTunes - @FlixMentallo21 - @SebsCso -@dezdigi - @Dedpool - @BigK1337 - @CrashTest - @avengingson - @Lightsplasher - @pesmerga44 - @felixxx - @mgeoff88 - @sameoldthing - @Minato - @Cosmic1 - @Darkhaven - @TheStranger -, @TheGambitFreak - @KelvTwelve - @Destroyer14 - @RobJigga - @StarSpangledBruce - @StuckInPanels - @DaenerysTaragaryen - @Wildaniel - @TheRock234 - @LucasMend - @OdinsMissingEye - @SmellofDuty - @Jermare - @BlackFlash - @ThatOneDude -
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/captain_america/captain_america_the_first_avenger/editorial-if-captain-america-the-first-avenger-ant-man-and-dr-strange-had-different-post-credits-scenes-a165640
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/marvel_studios/if-quicksliver-survived-the-events-of-avengers-age-of-ultron-a163796
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/marvel_studios/if-iron-man-3-avengers-age-of-ultron-and-avengers-infinity-war-had-2-post-credits-scenes-a163431
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/hulk/the_incredible_hulk/editorial-if-mark-ruffalo-and-don-cheadle-were-cast-as-bruce-banner-and-war-machine-from-the-beginning-a163110
noahthegrand
noahthegrand - 1/22/2019, 9:18 PM
@brodie999 - Ant-man probably would have been directed by Edgar Wright and had his signature style, but I'm not sure how Guardians would have been different.
brodie999
brodie999 - 1/22/2019, 11:10 PM
@noahthegrand - I agree. Peyton Reed did a great job at directing the first Ant-Man movie. Maybe Ronan would've been written as a much better villain in GOTG 1.
brodie999
brodie999 - 1/22/2019, 11:12 PM
@noahthegrand - Hey, I sent you a comment about FXX and 20th Century Fox Television making MCU shows on the Iron Man 3, Age of Ultron and Infinity War article. https://www.comicbookmovie.com/marvel_studios/if-iron-man-3-avengers-age-of-ultron-and-avengers-infinity-war-had-2-post-credits-scenes-a163431
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