Random Thoughts: Miles Morales and Character Gender/Race/Species Changes

Random Thoughts: Miles Morales and Character Gender/Race/Species Changes

All that is worth saying more concisely than above is that these are stories; what matters most is whether the change is actual story---every scenario has a context entirely of its own.

Frog Thor didn't make anyone get up in arms.

Editorial Opinion
By thefrattycomicbookguy - Jun 25, 2015 04:06 PM EST
Filed Under: Spider-Man
If you have any comments or suggestions, sound of below or use CBM's messaging system!

I'm always interested in video topic suggestions, cheesey title animation suggestions, or getting crazy here: cheap credit animations.

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MaximusTheMad
MaximusTheMad - 6/25/2015, 4:30 PM
Am I the only one who thinks that heroes, who pass on the mantle consist of a specific "type" of heroes?

When someone mentions passing on the mantle, I automatically think of Ant-Man, Flash, Green Lantern, and Robin.

Apart from those, I'll also accept Captain America, Iron Man (Rhodey) and Batman Beyond.

What these guys have in common is the fact that they can do their predecessor's job with enough training and gear (maybe besides the Flash). This keeps the successors special, even though they're wearing the same costume as the previous guy.

I'm not saying that new characters like Miles Morales and Kamala Khan aren't special and great, cuz they REALLY are. However, the thing that makes them special is their background and the quality of their stories, NOT their costumes and powers.

This is why I think Kamala Khan and Miles Morales would be perfectly good as completely NEW superhero personas instead of Black Spider-Man and Muslim Ms. Marvel. Can you honestly tell me that Kamala Khan has ANYTHING in common with Carol Danvers, other than the name?

They are not dependent on their predecessors like Scott Lang, Wally West, Rhodey, and Terry McGuinnes are on theirs. These guys would NEVER have become heroes if not for their predecessors/mentors, which is why the mantle fits them so well.

Create NEW heroes, New costumes and NEW identities, people.... Unless it makes sense not to do so
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 6/25/2015, 6:57 PM
Honestly, it does make sense for Miles to be Spidey. He's got a similar power set and the same basic moral outlook as Peter.

Its not like they made Peter black.

Its been said that the great thing about Spidey is that he could be anyone. I don't necessarily agree with that. It takes a special person to be spidey. However, Peter isn't the only person that can be Spidey either.

Miles does make sense if they want to shake things up. Lets not fool ourselves, Peter will be Spidey again at some point.

What really bothers me is when you take characters that dont make sense and put them in another person's mantle. Like Falcon Cap. No, not because he's black. Its actually more because Steve is white. One of the coolest things about Captain America to me is that he was exactly what Hitler claims to be the master race. A white man with blonde hair and blue eyes. People overlook the symbolism that Steve Rogers shows way too often when you look it like that. A member of the "Super Race" standing against Hitler's own idealism. Thats powerful stuff.

The argument can be made that Hitler hated blacks as well, so having a black man challenge him is meaningful also. There is an argument to be made for that. But it isn't as meaningful as someone that hitler would consider to be a member of a superior race standing up and showing the world how wrong he is.

Just my thoughts.
thefrattycomicbookguy
thefrattycomicbookguy - 6/25/2015, 9:24 PM
@MaximustheMad
I certainly agree with you on the idea of a "type," with certain characters there is just no other need (than lazy writing) to not have the character come into their own with a different title.

@corndogburglar
They definitely could have cast Miles first to shake things up, but I've been under the impression that they would want to avoid the backlash that typical trolls would create, and be able to save the character for contract swapping purposes to be explained in story further down the line.

Whoever said that "anyone could be spidey" maybe should just edit it a little, to something involving the level of genuine (and not typical) selflessness that people out there do have, just not many.

I've also definitely heard someone talking about that viewpoint on Cap before, I unfortunately tend to forget that one because I always think of Steve not as Hitler's "ideals" fighting against him, but more of the typical all-American who everyone would/should strive to be---the symbol of that ideal, which also represents everything else about America at that time.

That being said, both of the lines of thinking you mentioned (Steve or Sam) are incredible.

@FrozenMarvelite
Exactly! I'm digging this thread right now, I must be on the wrong part of the site to often because I don't see people actually making points in a non-argumentative manner on the main page, like, ever anymore.

If no one responds after this, I would still think this is what every thread should be like.
MrChicken
MrChicken - 6/26/2015, 7:10 AM
@CorndogBurglar I suppose you're using the 'death of the author' argument, whereby the intentions of the author don't matter and instead it's more about the interpretation by the individual perceiving it.

Personally, for what you're describing anyway, it actually would make more sense if Captain America was black. The idea that a blond haired, blue eyed, white male being the peak of physical human perfection only REAFFIRMS the propaganda spewed by Hitler and his Nazi party. The fact that he fights for the allies, and not axis, doesn't strike me as Ironic or powerful if we look at it from Hitlers perspective. Because in his mind, he's still proven right but it's simply 'a shame' that he was 'brainwashed' or 'blinded' by the american's propaganda and works for them instead.

His views, whether genuine or not, about black people were quite clear. They were inferior human beings, lesser than us and more akin to animals. And no matter what side you were on, that wouldn't change in his mind. So imagine if you have this African American, who was at the peak of physical human fitness, completely wrecking up his sh*t and hindering his war effort. And no matter how he tries to rationalize it, he has to face the fact that he's being outdone by someone who he views as 'inferior'

I think it would also be an opportunity to explore some of the hypocrisy of America, at the time, and showcase what it truly means to be an American. I mean, you're fighting an army that wants to enslave the world and deny the rights of certain human beings because of race (e.g. the jews) and yet...the black people in your country are treated unequally and are discriminated against.

Also, I don't see why Sam being black means that he's unfit to be Captain America. It's 2015. Not 1943. Being an American is not about being white. It's not about being black. It's about believing in the ideal's that your country was founded upon and, if needs be, fighting to keep them. That to me is a much more powerful message and that is what the Captain America mantle is meant to be. I don't see anything odd about his long-time sidekick finally taking up the mantle himself, if anything he's the perfect fit. Not because he's black, but because it makes sense.
76cidgrad
76cidgrad - 6/26/2015, 11:37 AM
Who cares? The comics industry is circling the bowl, and desperately using every gimmick they can think of. We're back to the days of holographic covers, foil covers, die-cut covers, multiple covers, Thunderstrike (stroke, whatever), US Agent, and Captain America with some kind of armored life-support suit.

Remember those days? Because all those comics were pure junk, almost as bad as Thorilla, Capfalcon, etc.

Hopefully all this will pass, and Marvel and DC will go back to producing great stories with characterization and exceptional art. None of this six-year old manga junk.

In the mean time, I'll save my money and go see the movies. Thanks to Robert Downey, Jr., Chris Evans, Chris Helmsworth, Mark Ruffalo, Jeremy Renner, Scarlett Johanssen, Sebastian Stan, Hayley Atwell, etc, etc, for remaining true to the sprit of the ORIGINAL characters.
CavalierTunes
CavalierTunes - 6/27/2015, 9:53 AM
I tend to subscribe to the idea of a "default" race/gender/appearance/gender preference/etc.

For exapmple, I highly doubt that when creating Spider-Man, Lee and Ditko sat down and discussed how Peter Parker "needed to be white." I don't think that was even a question for them. In the 1960s, it was just assumed that he would be white. 95% of other super heroes were. In fact, today even, the majority of superheroes are white.

I think that when most people create a character, they begin with the default: a tall, white, good-looking, straight man. When they deviate from that default, it's usually for a reason. For example, the new character they're creating needs to be a woman; or they very specifically want the character to be Hispanic. Unless there's an in-story or behind-the-scenes reason for why a character needs to be tall, white, good-looking, straight, and male, I assume that the creator just stuck with the default. Rarely was a character created specifically to be a tall, white, good-looking, straight man.

There are a few characters out there that need to be white. Dagger from "Cloak & Dagger," for instance, was specifically created as half of an interracial couple. Steve Rogers only makes sense as white, because it would make no sense for 1940s America to adopt anyone other than a white man as their national symbol (otherwise Isaiah Bradley would've been the official Captain America). And there are a few other characters as well.

In my opinion, we should be open to having any character's "default" attributes changed if there is a reason. Moon Knight, for instance, never needed to be white; so, if Marvel ever makes a Moon Knight movie, and thinks that it needs more diversity, I have no problem with Moon Knight being changed to being Middle Eastern. If Marvel wanted to make Nighthawk a woman in a new movie, I say go for it! If DC wants to make Tim Drake gay in a new movie, I see no problem with that (in fact, in that case, I think it makes more sense).

There's a big difference between making Tigra Hispanic and making Black Panther white. One makes no difference whatsoever, because Tigra wasn't created specifically to be white; the other is opposed to the fact that Black Panther was created specifically as black.

Does that make sense?
RobGrizzly
RobGrizzly - 6/28/2015, 6:24 PM
@MaximusTheMad

Well said and good point
ThunderKat
ThunderKat - 6/30/2015, 9:41 PM
@MaximusTheMad

That is what I've been saying all along. Falcon is a great, unique who has his own stories. He wasn't another Bucky to Cap. He was an equal partner with a different skill set.

I also agree that not just anyone can be Spider-Man. Miles deserves his own identity. He deserves to be unique.

A new identity and further differentiation from Peter would be best for him long term.
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