CBM SUPERBATTLE CDLXXIX (479)

Hawkeye

Black Canary

Zatanna

Cyclops

Hawkeye vs Merlyn -- Hawkeye's a better marksman (prefers bow but is like Bullseye in that anything you put in his hands is a deadly weapon) and a more skilled h2h fighter. My memories of Merlyn from the comics is that he rivals Green Arrow in archery, but I don't recollect off-hand seeing him in a fist-fight. Hawkeye by whatever means he sees fit.

Black Canary vs Winter Soldier -- without her canary cry BC would be toast, no question about it. But with it, the edge is in her favor. As bad-ass as WS is, he's not durable enough to take the extended beating BC would lay on him after rendering him immobile with the canary cry.

Cap vs Zatanna -- Her forcefield alone is enough to keep Cap from laying a hand on her. Throw in her myriad other magical powers and Cap's a goner.

Booster Gold vs Cyclops -- I think the perpetually underrated Cyke would hammer BG senseless in a first encounter, and the edge is further in his favor in a rematch/prep scenario.

Marvel 2, DC 2 this time around.

i was going to say Booster but since this is a rematch and Cyc is a great tactician plus Booster Gold is a bit of an idiot if I remember correctly thats all I need to vote for Cyclops here.

@ LOUDLON, I was not angry yesterday because you thought you tricked everyone. I just took your original post as sarcastic. but like several of us posted, you don't treat cap and bats fairly in a comparison. I'm sure your opinions are what you really think, but that is why I posted the ridiculously long list of facts. I wasn't downing cap, I was showing how similar they actually are. its just how it is.

Gravedigger -- and this is going to be the last comment I make about the Bats/Cap thing -- I lurked CBMFC for a few days after finding out it had come back, before joining in again, in order to read up on matches I've missed to see if what made me glad FC ended a while back was still going on. Namely, the one-sidedness when it comes to Batman and a few other characters. And of course, yeah, it was still going on. And in my mind it was like, y'know, if fans voted that Batman could beat Silver Surfer (!), then I'm going to vote that Cap can beat Darkseid, just to show them how completely ridiculous the idea is that a non-super powered hero could ever defeat a cosmic-level being.

That said, when Doopie asked what Cap's abilities were the other day, I took the time to explain -- quite thoroughly, I thought, and in accordance to Cap's established canon -- what made Cap such a great and hard to beat character.

But what it breaks down to when it comes to Bats vs Cap is that Marvel and DC have drastically different definitions of what "peak human" is. Marvel's definition of peak human is that it's only attainable via an enhancement, like Cap's Super Soldier Serum. DC's definition of peak human is something attainable by working out really hard and taking vitamins. And to be completely honest, whether it applies to Cap or not, Marvel's definition simply makes more sense to me. Because EVERY human-level superhero works their bodies to their limits, training for years and years, mastering their fighting ability, etc. So how is Batman so special, that he can do the same thing a hundred other human heroes do yet, according to DC, still be so far above them all? It makes absolutely no sense to me.

Granted, it's probably not wise to apply logic to fiction, but once you've established the rules of a character, breaking those rules only undermines that character. What makes Batman such a great character is that he is human -- flawed and imperfect. Yet writers have been undermining that aspect of his character and building him up to implausible levels for decades. Even hardcore Bat-fans can't argue against that. Batman now is nothing like Batman used to be. But as I said in another post, Cap -- even though the occasional liberty is taken -- has been pretty much the same since day one.

So it's up to us, the readers, to tell the shit from the shinola. We should know what our favorite characters are capable of and be able to be objective about them. Did anyone buy for a single second that Batman was able to knock the wind out of the Hulk in that crossover back in the late 70s/early 80s? The Hulk shrugs off heavy artillery with nothing more than minor annoyance -- yet Batman can drop him with a kick to the belly? C'mon, son!

But again, this is my point -- attributing accomplishments to a character that even his most ardent fan knows full and well they should be completely incapable of doing.

So that's why I did what I did with the Cap/Darkseid vote. Yeah, it was underhanded, and I'm not proud of it, but I did it. And now it's over and done.

I apologize for accusing you of kissing relentless's ass. I apologize for not recalling off-hand that you and I had indeed shared discussions in the past (in my own defense, though, I'm 42, dude -- the ol' short-term memory ain't what it used to be lol). So how about we clean slate this and start fresh. No hard feelings, water under the bridge. Obviously we'll never agree on the Bats/Cap thing, but that's no reason for us to keep flaming each other.

Deal?