Who Really Killed SPIDER-MAN 3?

Everyone wants to give Raimi a free pass on Spider-Man 3 being one of the worst comic book movies ever. But should we?

Editorial Opinion
By VIRILEMAN - Aug 22, 2013 01:08 AM EST
Filed Under: Spider-Man 3

People who give Raimi a free pass on Spider-Man 3 are either ignorant or stupid. Raimi wrote Spider-man 3. He wrote the entire script for Spider-Man 3. He did not write the scripts for Spider-Man 1 or 2, but he and his brother wrote the whole thing for Spider-Man 3. He also produced Spider-Man 3. Which means it was his decision on what to put into the script. Usually people writing a script for a film have to put whatever the producer tells them to put into it. Since Raimi was the producer and writer, he pretty much could put anything he wanted into the movie.

Raimi is to blame three fold for how bad the movie was. Emo Peter? That was all Raimi. Dancing emo Peter? That was all Raimi. Sandman being Uncle Ben's killer? Yup, still Raimi. Venom being miscast and written nothing like his comic book counter part? All Raimi.

The only thing Avi did was say "Hey, Spidey fans love Venom. He seems to be a favorite. Put him in the third movie ok." Raimi is the one that had him in the movie for 10 minutes and had him take his mask off every chance he could. Raimi is the one who wrote a script with an Eddie Brock that was NOTHING like the Eddie Brock from the comics. Directors are given scripts and have to do the best they can with what the script says. Raimi on the other hand got to write the entire thing himself! Even writers who write a script are told by the producers who needs to be in the movie. For example Batman Begins was produced by

Larry J. Franco .... producer (as Larry Franco)
Benjamin Melniker .... executive producer
Lorne Orleans .... producer (IMAX version)
Charles Roven .... producer
Emma Thomas .... producer


Those people told David Goyer and Nolan what had to be in the script. They told them who they wanted in the script and where the story should go. Then David Goyer and Christopher Nolan sat down and wrote a script around what the producers wanted. They didn't get to pick the villains. They have to do the best they can with Ras and Scarecrow. And they did an amazing job.

All Avi said was "do Venom, people love Venom." It was Raimi who then wrote Venom into an already terrible script. Raimi could have written a good Venom script. Who could have cast a better Eddie Brock. He could have directed Topher Grace better so that we didn't end up with one of the worst villain in a long time. All Avi did was tell him what is completely true. We fans love Venom. I still want Venom. And I hope whomever is in charge of villains in this new franchise is saying "we need Venom" because Raimi screwed it up last time.


Blaming Avi Arad for the crappy Venom we got in Spider-Man 3 is like blaming a manager of a pizza place that tells his cook to order plenty of pepperoni for the store because people love pepperoni. But instead of ordering the good pepperoni the cook orders the worst pepperoni possible, doesn't store it right so it goes bad, and then only puts like 2 pieces of pepperoni on the pizza when it's being made.

All Avi did was say "do venom. People love Venom" And we do. We love Venom. He is the biggest comic villain right next to the Joker. Raimi is the guy who gave us the horrible SM3 version. He cast him, wrote him, and directed him. He's a freaken awesome character, good for Avi for making Raimi use him. Shame on Raimi for making him suck.
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Reasonnnn
Reasonnnn - 8/22/2013, 1:49 AM
Nolan had complete control in his TDK trilogy. Emma Thomas ain't going to tell him what to do since they're married. The rest of those producers have filmographies that suggest that they give their directors complete creative control.
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 8/22/2013, 2:33 AM
SONY

:P
OcciferPing
OcciferPing - 8/22/2013, 2:59 AM
I take it you have absolutely no experience being in the film industry. The director doesn't have the final call, bro. It's the Studio Execs (Sony in this case) since they pay for the majority of the film. The director projects the Execs' vision, as does the writer. They are getting paid to do their job and not question their bosses. Only in some cases does the writer and director get full freedom (Dark Knight Trilogy, Avengers). Wish it was like that more.

So no Raimi is not to blame entirely. It's Sony all the way.
Leebo4
Leebo4 - 8/22/2013, 3:47 AM
Sm3 while not perfect is a fun film and I liked it
You say even without venom the film woul shave been terrible,
How?
Leebo4
Leebo4 - 8/22/2013, 4:10 AM
Also no raimi is not at fault
Look at it this way:
He had to use new goblin since they set it up in the last 2 movies
He wanted to use sandman and did a good job bringing him to the screen
And he was forced to shoehorn in venom
S you are suggest sam should have been forced to just use the villain the studio pushed to be in
I don't understand hy you think raimi is at fault
Leebo4
Leebo4 - 8/22/2013, 4:11 AM
Sorry I'm not dissing your opinion but that's how I see the stimulation raimi was dealt with
Highflyer
Highflyer - 8/22/2013, 4:43 AM
Even my mother said 'I even forgot I was watching a spider-man movie when Peter started dancing.'
thenerdicon4
thenerdicon4 - 8/22/2013, 6:31 AM
Ok, Here is how I see it. He got dealt venom. He didn't like Venom, so he he decides to be a baby about it and write and direct a terrible film, because he didn't get his way. I'm sorry Raimi, but when you play with the big boys you gotta play by their rules. If you dont like that, go back to the indie scene. People still dont understand. Raimi still Wrote, Emo Peter, he still wrote the shitty dance scene in the film. he still wrote the other crappy backstory for sandman, making him Uncle Bens killer. How was that the problem of the guy who said "put venom in this movie?" It is so strange.
McNyagano
McNyagano - 8/22/2013, 6:54 AM
Spider man 3 was wriiten by Sam Raimi, Ivan Raimi and Alvin Sargent. Do your research. Venom is not the the biggest comic villain right next to the Joker.That's just your opinion, there are a lot of villains I will rank above Venom, he's a shitty character to begin with -_-

The original script for SM3 had 2 villains, Sandman and Goblin Jnr whilst Vulture made a cameo and set-up as the villain for SM4. Again do your research.

Spider-Man 3 has some shining moments, one of which is essentially Sam Raimi's grinning middle finger to all the grim n' gritty business that has consumed superheroes for the last few decades: the Peter Parker dance scenes. Those scenes were a big [frick] you to Sony.
thenerdicon4
thenerdicon4 - 8/22/2013, 7:01 AM
SO, essentially Raimi acted like a small child he didn't get his way? Seriously, only in the movie buisness can you get away with this stuff. If I dislked the way my job was going, the way they did buisness and the way they told me to do thing, and if i saw that and decided to give them the middle finger my [frick]ing everything up and making a less than spectacular product, i would get fired on the spot and blacklisted. I love Raimi i really do, Evil Dead 2 is one of my favorite movies, but seriously, this feels like a child who didnt getting the toy he wanted for christmas, but still got A toy and decided to rip the toy he got apart. Not realizing there are thousands of other kids who would have loved to have had that toy.
megabatfan
megabatfan - 8/22/2013, 7:48 AM
Is this still a debate? Geez, it came - it made it's millions - it's gone.
Now we're looking forward to The Amazing Sipder-man 2 (should be called The Spectacular Spider-man). Give it a rest. Geez!
LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 8/22/2013, 7:59 AM
I will never understand why people say Spider-Man 3 is one of the worst CBMs of all time. I could name 20 worst CBMs.

Batman & Robin
Batman Forever
Electra
Howard The Duck
Blade 3
Jonah Hex
Green Lantern
Superman 3
Superman 4
Judge Dredd
Spawn
Catwoman
Fantastic Four
Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer
X-Men Origins: Wolverine
Ghost Rider
Ghost Rider 2
That 90s Captain America movie
The Spirit
Son of the Mask

I would put Spider-Man 3 in the same class as X3 The Last Stand. Personally I like X3 mostly because I'm a big Beast fan and Kelsey was perfect. Both films had problems but both films have great scenes. Spider-Man 3's fight scenes were all great, the crane scene was cool, the Church scene with Venom's transformation. Man the scene with Sandman's birth. That scene was beautiful man. Him trying to pick up his daughter's locket.

I will never understand the amount of hate for Sandman killing Uncle Ben. I mean hell we had Joker kill Bruce's parents.

I don't love Spider-Man 3 but I never understood the amount of hate it gets being called one of the worst CBMs of all time.
GinjaNinja
GinjaNinja - 8/22/2013, 8:45 AM
I laugh at the dancing. but the whole films was cheesy, unneeded and poorly written.
Leebo4
Leebo4 - 8/22/2013, 8:52 AM
Sam wasnt a baby
He already had a script ready befor ethe studio forced venom into it
You would rather he unethusistaclly direct a movie about veno m which he wouldn't put his all into
Leebo4
Leebo4 - 8/22/2013, 8:53 AM
Also sandmans backstory wasn't bad it was one of the best parts
Seriously I don't think raimi was to blame
superotherside
superotherside - 8/22/2013, 9:03 AM
LEVITIKUZ Because most people haven't seen those movies. ;P

I'd say it was more like that Raimi already knew what he was going to do for the 3rd movie by the time 2 came out. (I mean that teaser with Harry just sets the stage for 3).

But Sony producers etc. tell him no. Don't use the story that you planned, we want a more bankable character for the villain. So don't be creative just let us milk the most well known characters.

So yeah. Sony's fault. Think about it though. Get rid of Venom storyline there is nothing wrong with Spider-man 3.

No Emo Peter
No Sandman killing Uncle Ben
No MJ breaking up with Peter for no reason
No discount Venom and Eddie Brock
No messed up too complicated plot.

All you have to deal with is Harry's revenge and possibly two minor side villains Vulture and Sandman. That's it.

If Sony hadn't messed it up SM3 would have been possibly better than SM2. And they might have been able to make SM4-6 that we heard about. And without Spider-man 3 being mostly dislike and TASM with mixed reviews, Spider-man would be still a MAJOR bankable character. Instead now Spider-man is almost becoming a b or c character.
superotherside
superotherside - 8/22/2013, 9:11 AM
The problem was Raimi understandably didn't want to rewrite the whole story. So he took out Vulture and threw in a discount Venom to make Sony happy. So yeah. The main problem was if he wanted to do Venom right, he should have rewritten the whole thing. But it would have been hard as he already set up Harry's revenge story line.
maninfinesuit
maninfinesuit - 8/22/2013, 9:35 AM
But...Venom does suck. Don't get me wrong, he's a villain who's entertaining in a very simple way, but he is nowhere near the likes of the Joker. Raimi's Venom was fine, and fairly faithful.
GinjaNinja
GinjaNinja - 8/22/2013, 10:11 AM
Raimi ruined him...
Leebo4
Leebo4 - 8/22/2013, 11:22 AM
Cant we please just let everyone have their own views as this comment box just turned into a message board
If you think raimi is the victim or at fault it's up to you so can we put the issue to rest
TicklerMan
TicklerMan - 8/22/2013, 11:55 AM
I don't know about yah, but I'm craving a Pizza from Pizza Hut. $6.55 M-Thu carry out only. I would eat it while flap flap flapping to Andrew Garfield's skateboard scene
gmoney0505
gmoney0505 - 8/22/2013, 12:53 PM
Thing I hate with Sandman killing Uncle-Ben is retreading stuff that was already handled in the first movie. IF it had been somewhat foreshadowed in the first movie about it being 2 robbers. We get a character that I really didn't care about in the movie to let it be revealed that he killed Uncle Ben was not pleasing in my eyes and didn't add any shock value. I just dont like retreading back to other movies if it didn't get a set-up or something.
GinjaNinja
GinjaNinja - 8/22/2013, 1:44 PM
True @gmoney0505.
GinjaNinja
GinjaNinja - 8/22/2013, 1:45 PM
@soto Horrible. Carnage lizard and probably rhino. All of it probably like the 3rd one.
GinjaNinja
GinjaNinja - 8/22/2013, 1:45 PM
but you never know they may have killed it.
GinjaNinja
GinjaNinja - 8/22/2013, 2:23 PM
Ouch..... Thats worse than I would have suspected... That sounds like Drama. vulture and vulturess aren't a good combo to carry a movie as far as villains go. After the Drama in the 3rd one I was hoping they would get past that finally.
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