X-MEN: Franchise Options Part 2.…ORIGINS vs. FIRST CLASS

X-MEN: Franchise Options Part 2.…ORIGINS vs. FIRST CLASS

Here is the follow up to REBOOT vs. CONTINUATION. I’d like to thank everyone for their comments and opinions on that first article. I don’t claim to put forward the only problems, solutions and options. I’m just trying to open up the table for discussion as I like to hear your opinions almost as much as mine! ;)

Editorial Opinion
By ThunderCougarFalconBird - Jun 23, 2009 12:06 AM EST
Filed Under: X-Men

So lets get down to brass tacks shall we...

ORIGINS

We’ve already seen Wolverine and even those who liked it can’t deny it wasn’t as good as it should have been. They had the same problems here as they would with a continuation. Fox didn’t think long term when including and handling some of the characters. I think Wolverine is a good example of what a continuation is likely to be like and I know a few of us on here who hated that movie but still want a continuation. If Fox can’t iron out the problems I previously raised in a prequel how can they do it in X4?

Don’t get me wrong, Wolverine was at least entertaining and the “Origins” franchise is a good one to have. What I think could happen is this, keep Wolverine but as a reboot, not a sequel. I know, you all think I’m mad! But let me explain…

I previously mentioned that I think X-Men should be handled like the Avengers (catching on?). Yes. Keep the “Origins” going and work them into a whole new X-Men (First Class or not). Wolverine can be kept because there weren’t that many things wrong in respect to making this work. OK, Deadpool got screwed, or did he? Really? If you think yes then just head over to Marvel Universe Online and read his biography. He was subjected to numerous torturous experiments. In Wolverine he was the result of an experiment to combine mutants powers. Is that so different? The only way he was screwed was for screen time and anything done to him can be undone easily. I can imagine the comments I’ll be getting for that! To be honest, it goes against the grain saying it but in truth, it’s right! Another argument could be Gambit fitting in to the time frame. He’s seen in Wolverine at the sort of age he would be in X-Men. Well that’s not a problem, there has been significant evidence to suggest that he ages slowly. I will leave TheMyth to go into detail on that in the comments if needed, I’m sure he can do it more justice than me!

To carry on with prequels will only add to the tangled knot of characters Fox has given us. So, we could keep the “Origins” going but as a reboot. That way, for those who think a reboot is too soon, we won’t actually be seeing X-Men for a while and when we do we will have well established characters with the right dynamic for the group.

X-MEN : FIRST CLASS

This has been mentioned as a strong possibility and brings with it an equality of both hopes and fears. So what is the “First Class”? The first class is a group of Xavier’s… erm, first class. This is traditionally comprised of Jean Grey (Marvel Girl), Cyclops, Angel, Beast and Ice Man. Like Wolverines latest outing this would be a prequel to X-Men and this is where the issue comes to light. Would we accept a different line up? Not really. Sure, one or two liberties can be taken but we need at least four, if not all of these originals for a credible film (yes I know it’s Fox).

Jean and Cyclops are a shoe-in and easily incorporated in either a reboot or prequel, so we can skip past them.

Ice Man cannot work in the time scale set by the X-Men movies. Ice Man would be far too young to be part of the first class as he was only just starting to come into the right age frame and into power at the end of X3. Could this Bobby be a different Ice Man? It certainly can’t be a father/son thing. The ages won’t add up and we’ve already seen Bobby’s dad in X2. Would it be too far fetched to have the Bobby we know and for him to cryogenically freeze himself for some reason?! Not sure I like that!

Angel has a problem and it is again X3 that throws a spanner in the works. At the end of the movie Angel walks into the Xavier school for what is clearly the first time. The best way round this I can see is for the First Class to have a different location. I don’t like that idea but it could happen.

This leaves Beast. If this movie is to happen then he needs to be done right. In the First Class, Beast is not yet the big blue fluff ball everyone knows. As I’m sure most of us are aware, he has all his abilities but looks pretty much normal with the exception of his feet and hands. Even if Fox decide to stay true at the beginning it will be all too easy for them to think “The general public know Beast as the blue guy and will want to see this at some stage.” You may be asking yourself “what’s the problem? Just make him turn blue and hairy at some point.” You may even say “Just make him Blue to start with!”. Well that can’t work. Our first look at Beast in the movies was not in X3. He appeared on screen in X2 looking fully human. If you’re wondering where, it was during a bar scene with Mystique and the prison guard (if memory serves me right). On a TV news programme in the background there is a man being interviewed about the mutant situation with the name “Dr Henry McCoy”. So Beast can be in the movie but MUST STAY HUMAN.

So do we want to see a “First Class” movie? I know one or two people on here dying for it and a couple not keen at all. If the comic fans are split like this I would have to guess that the general public will be far from enthusiastic about the idea. To most of the world the X-Men are the group seen in the 90’s cartoon and I think Fox, as stupid as they can be, know that. They know Wolverine means big money. Throw Gambit in there too and it wouldn’t matter how many holes are in the plot, the film will sell. I’m sure they’ll try that sometime! ;).

So can a First Class movie work? It could, but probably won’t. To do it the Fox way is easy, to do it well will need very careful handling, to do it right will have to be a reboot and why risk that on an un-established group? No, this will just give Fox more reason to take massive liberties with a great team and “First Class” will become “Second Rate”.

CONCLUSION

So, over these two articles I’ve outlined the four most obvious choices for the X-Men, some issues with making them work and how to get around them. I love X-Men, they pulled me back into this genre after my parents stopped buying me Batman, Superman and Spiderman comics as a kid. This is why I want a no compromise series from these guys. Whilst writing both articles my opinions have constantly swayed as I have envisaged the possibilities I’ve been outlining. In truth, I believe any one of these options can work and work well. But whether it is Magneto, Sinister or Apocalypse the X-Men face, their greatest demon to over come will always be the creative rights of Fox. Slay this beast and the X-Men will rule the box office in any form for years to come.

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jallanr
jallanr - 6/23/2009, 11:03 AM
great read, and i agree, that origins reboot thing could work, doubt it would happen though

woo hoo!
Shaman
Shaman - 6/23/2009, 11:06 AM
Great article, great follow up and great options. IMO, Fox already killed the horse however, i feel it could still be entertaining to poke at it with a thoughtful stick :)

AshleyWilliams
AshleyWilliams - 6/23/2009, 1:23 PM
@pietro-the storm scene took place 10 years before the cyclops scene
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 6/23/2009, 1:35 PM
GREAT ARTICLE HOWLETT MAN!!! ; )
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 6/23/2009, 1:48 PM
OMG MY FRIIGIN GOD I JUST WROTE A SHITE LOAD OF STUFF AN IT DIDN'T COME UP!!!! AGHHHHHHHH!
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 6/23/2009, 1:52 PM
Sorry i ain't writing all that a friggin' again!

End of the day FOX is making FIRST CLASS so...

IT HAS TO BE THE ORIGINAL FIVE!!!

It can be a stand alone X-MEN movie, doesn't hav'ta touch the Franchise!!!

If they make that Sad X-90210 SHITE it'll kill your X-FRANCHISE!

X-4 an all them Spinoffs still can be made!!!

FIRST CLASS (STAND ALONE FILM) = ORIGINAL X-MEN! ; )

MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 6/23/2009, 3:01 PM
Why on earth would you want to see a stand alone movie about the original team, running alongside the established movie universe?

Great stuff Howlett. I still maintain nothings broke that cant be fixed. hell nothing was broke at all before X3. Yes i know all the liberties that were taken and i would have liked to see them stick closer to the comics too, but they didnt! Its a damn movie. If you havnt learned to look at these CBM's as an alternative to the comics world, like The Ultimates, then your going to be very disappointed going to the cinema, for a very long time. Anyway, Apocalypse, Sinister, some time travelly event bending a la Star Trek and BAM, they can make Rouge fly, Ice Man and Angel older, Juggernaut cool and Cyclops not a douchebag!..oh wait, that was accurate!
adamant877
adamant877 - 6/23/2009, 3:37 PM
You know... I say reboot.
(I know, blesphemy.)
The reason I say reboot is simple... It gives someone else a chance to try a reenvisioning of the franchise, take aspects that worked with Singer (and Rattner), and remove the ones that don't belong.
Who says it's too early to change things up. Maybe they can get someone in who's talented enough to give the franchise new breath, stay true to the characters and continuity, and STILL keep it entertaining!
I have faith that people will be resistant at first, but after seeing results, will cheer and applaud.
Now, it's just a matter of convincing the suits...

New artists and writers come into comic titles on (sometimes too often) a regular basis. Look what changing things up did for Schumacher's "Batman".

And before you say it... yes, the franchise is profitable, but could you honestly say, as a fan, that it couldn't be better? And easily!? Lastly, no, I wouldn't want to change the cast... Well, maybe just a few. ;-)
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 6/23/2009, 3:53 PM
ROR @ Im sorry man, you just ain't a true X-MEN fan fella, sorry you just ain't! Im being nice here saying a stand alone movie! If i had my way it would be all friggin' REBOOTED!

An WOLVERINE W*NKERINES has broke the franchise! What a pile of sh!te that is! : D (That's just behind CATWOMAN an BATMAN&ROBIN)!

Adamant877 @ You da man!!! ; )

mstargel
mstargel - 6/23/2009, 4:55 PM
Continue with Origins stories & allow those to build and foundation for future films... hopefully get the deadpool/gambit/magneto.. whoever stories better than Wolverine & then you open up any avenue for all the stories
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 6/23/2009, 5:20 PM
Mstargel @ Their doing the other ORIGIN movies anyway???
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 6/23/2009, 5:20 PM
Mstargel @ Their doing the other ORIGIN movies anyway???
CrookedJaw
CrookedJaw - 6/23/2009, 5:43 PM
Niether! X4 is what we need!
Nutstrodomus
Nutstrodomus - 6/23/2009, 6:14 PM
Do the Star Trek alternate universe syle reboot, this way we can keep some of the same actors and be able to tell the story right from the beginning.
MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 6/23/2009, 6:21 PM
The "not a true fan" thing? Really Leee? Your better than that!! Of course im a true fan or i wouldnt be on here would i? Just because i have no interest in seeing the early, RUBBISH adventures of Doucheclops and his tosser mates on the big screen doesnt mean im not an X Men fan. have you even read those early comics or are you just trying to sound like a purist for the sake of it?

And yes, we are all aware of your hatred for Wolverine: Whatever clever subtitle youve come up with today, but forgive me if i find it a bit hard to take the opinion of a guy who liked the Spawn movie seriously!;)
TheDarkCuban
TheDarkCuban - 6/23/2009, 7:12 PM
well how bout they just reboot starting with the wolverine movie... i mean by the time they actually get to a full fledged x-men movie again it'll be atleast 6-8 years from now meaning it was uhhh almost a decade since x-3... i say reboot... cuz all in all they really did create an alternate timeline with x-men origins: wolverine
Joslezio85
Joslezio85 - 6/24/2009, 1:04 AM
Ya know. I've been thinking about this. What they should do is screw off on all this rebooting and origin telling stuff, and just start telling some good stories. Sure, they screwed some stuff up, like Ice-man's age. OH WELL! It's too late now. So lets keep him the way he is and let it be. I for one, don't care to say any FOX written crap anymore. I want them to do some of the AMAZING stories, that we all love. Age of Apocalypse for instance. God loves, man kills is another. The Pheonix Saga told properly.
I mean, there's a million good stories, and we're all bickering, and fighting over which way they should rewrite our favorite ones. Think about it people.
TheMyth
TheMyth - 6/24/2009, 6:18 AM
lol thanks for the props Howlett. Gambit does have a slower metabolism causing him to age slower than typical humans, about 1 year for every 2 of ours. And like you said about the DP treatment above, his introduction and involvement in XO:W isn't that different from the books in many aspects. Gambit's first mission for the thieves guild ended in disaster, Remy and his cousin were captured and sold to mutant slavers(sound familiar a bit)

As for "First Class" I too have mixed feelings about it, but only because i just don't think anyone cares to see the X-Men fight Magneto... again. And while they can't possibly give us the real 'First Class', they can make up for it by giving us the original Brotherhood. I see the FC line up being something like this; Cyclops, Jean Grey, Beast, Storm, Emma Frost, and Banshee. This is based on information gathered from all 4 movies. I also think a few more may be there for the First Class, but split away at some point; Quicksilver, Toad, Scarlet Witch, and Mastermind. If this is right, then we can at least enjoy a true to comics original Brotherhood.

I have been working on a fantastic Fan-fic for what I'd like to see in a First Class movie that follows the established film continuity. I hope to unveil it by next month, and it will certainly be my most detailed and well written piece I've ever done for CBM. Maybe I can sway some folks to warm up to the idea.
MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 6/24/2009, 6:40 AM
So FF is fine as it is(awful) but great movies like X men ( 1 and 2) need a reboot? Sometimes i think ive entered Bizzaro world i really do. Anyway he never said FF, he said Fantastic Fan! We may never see an X4 teabag, but i guarantee you, we will not be seeing an X rebooot. We have another Wolverine greenlit, as well as Magneto and Deadpool, possibly Gambit and so on. At what point do you think Fox are going to give up the cash cow they have built from the current movieverse? I think you know the answer is not for a very bloody long time if ever!
comicb00kguy
comicb00kguy - 6/24/2009, 7:41 AM
This is an interesting discussion, but I'm here with a radical proposal to suggest to add another angle to it: drop the live-action thing, and do future X-Men movies all computer animation (Pixar style, not traditional animation- that's been done, and done well) . Look at the benefits:
1) The whole cast of characters is available to do whatever you want with them. You don't have problems of having to shoot around people's schedules, or dropping characters because there's no more money in the budget for casting. You can shoot anywhere you want, and you save a fortune on sets and CGI.
2) Voiceover work doesn't require nearly as long to do, so we can keep the entire cast, and add a few new mutants besides. It's a lot easier to slip some voioeover work into a busy actor's schedule. Someone's not available? Bring someone else in. The character will still look the same, and a good caster will find someone who sounds similar.
3) I would think animated movies would be cheaper to make, which makes them more profitable to the studio. Studio is making more money, they want to make more movies. Which leads to:
4) They could come out faster, meaning we'd get MORE movies and more often. Who could be against THAT? Space them out so that you don't flood the market or kill demand, and this thing could keep us enjoying great adventures for many years to come.

Sorry to be so long-winded, but this took some time to explain. This is just a basic idea, and I'd sure welcome improvements to it. Anyone with me?
Shaman
Shaman - 6/24/2009, 7:44 AM
TheMyth- I'm hooked, get it on here already!!! And i've always said they were gonna do what you just said they would. Why would they go any other way logically??? They won't reboot what they JUST created, just so we can have an accurate first class. They'll use whatever they've come up with for about 2 films, Gambit and Deadpool might get 2 films as well just like Wolverine and then they'll reboot the frachise because everybody'll be too old to reprise their roles. We could be another 15 years of x-related movies before they even concider rebooting they're franchise.

Teabag- Only he would think that explosion sounds make him look awesome. He's been listening way too much to Boom Boom Pow.
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 6/24/2009, 8:05 AM
TEABAG @ REBOOT!!! ; )

ROR @ I didn't mean it like that, but its like not wanting the original AVENGERS!!! The original X-MEN started in all off an they are a cool team an deserve respect! FOX is sh!tting on these characters an they gotta stop before its too late man!

Saying that, i am looking forward to WOLVERINE 2 in Japan, atleast (we hope) they try and make a better movie, fingers crossed!
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 6/24/2009, 8:08 AM
But yeah the spin off are their own movies! They don't hav'ta suck on the X-MEN B00bies anymore! WE can get a great X-MEN from the start!!! ; )
Osiris
Osiris - 6/24/2009, 8:15 AM
I like the movies and the universe they have established, now X3 wasn't that great I think the story needed more and even though Rogue and Colossus were now aloud to fight in a real combat situation we still never got to see them kick any a$$ what the hell was up with that I wanted to see Colossus take on Juggy instead we got him chasing Kitty, also Rogue needs her flight and strength already.

so maybe first class isn't such a bad idea considering the team will be smaller and characters won't be getting less to no screen time by the third installment, and eventually it can turn into a reboot even though I would rather see them carry on with the series, but maybe then they can bring in a hotter/older Rogue into the picture for gambit and make her do more then just power drain people.
divo
divo - 6/24/2009, 9:39 AM
They do need to reboot, with first class. Keep the wolverine franchise going. Keep hugh as wolverine, hes only going to look more like wolverine as he ages. lol i watched x2 the other day and hes just so young looking its really cheesy. But hugh is a great wolverine and will only be better with age.
Shaman
Shaman - 6/24/2009, 11:07 AM
Hell, he might even get shorter :P
divo
divo - 6/24/2009, 11:34 AM
hahahaha lets hope for the best!
divo
divo - 6/24/2009, 11:44 AM
If they did reboot x men completely though, they have to get a guy whos 5'3 for wolverine
divo
divo - 6/24/2009, 12:00 PM
lmao teabag!
Shaman
Shaman - 6/24/2009, 12:31 PM
Yeah, he was just the best X-man ever invented. IMO, from the moment he was introduced, it became Wolverine and the X-men, but that's just me. I honestly feel that without Wolverine, they have nothing to give the general audiance.
Shaman
Shaman - 6/24/2009, 2:10 PM
We all sighed... does that count? I mean, i like cgi and all but it doesn't sell that well unless it appeals to the younger croud and thats really not where i'd like the X-men to go.
happydan
happydan - 6/24/2009, 2:51 PM
@pietro

Did that scene with Ororo make it in the movie???? I never saw it.
adamant877
adamant877 - 6/24/2009, 8:11 PM
They used the (deleted) scene with young Storm for the trailers, but took it out of the final cut. You can bet your sweet @$$ they'll have it in the deleted scenes of the DVD, though. ;-)
GUNSMITH
GUNSMITH - 6/25/2009, 2:21 AM
FIRST CLASS I AGREE WONT WORK-YES ICE MAN WOULD BE TOO YOUNG, HECK FIRST CLASS ANGEL WAS IN IT, HE BARELY WAS INTRODUCED IN X3, DO WE REALLY WANNA SEE FRASIER WITHOUT THE FUR?..I WOULD LOOK AT HIM ONCE AND SAY OH ITS FRASIER..1ST CLASS IS A TRAINWRECK WAITING TO HAPPEN.IF I WANNA SEE AN XMEN MOVIE,I WANNA SEE IT WITH WOLVERINE IN IT,ESTABLISHED CHARACTERS,X4,WTF I DONT WANNA SEE 90210 SAPPY TEENAGERS WITH POWERS..BUT GO AHEAD AND DO IT, AND I'LL BE THERE TELLING YOU I TOLD YOU SO.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
ThunderCougarFalconBird - 6/25/2009, 8:14 AM
Dear oh, dear children. I open up the floor for a discussion and you mess it up with arguing! Let's not bicker over who killed whom.

LEEE777 - So Rorscach doesn't like the First Class, doesn't mean he's not a fan, I hate the Phoenix Saga with a passion thanks to the over-played cartoon but I still call myself a fan. I know what your saying about respecting the originals but I can't see it working like that. Like Shaman said, Wolverine IS the X-Men to most people. While doing spin offs under X-Men: Origins will work an X-Men film without Logan will probably pan. The public will accept Origin stories but as soon as an X-Men group is put together they will want Wolverine there. Doesn't matter how good it may be to us the First Class lacks the draw for the public.


comicb00kguy - While I like your idea and would love to see it I can't believe it will sell. Maybe it's a way to go with the DVD features coming up but DC and now Marvel are starting to put out decent 2D animation which they'll probably stick to. Who knows though!

Shaman - You may be right with your 15ish year reboot idea. It depends on how long they decide to drag this dead horse through the town! Ok, a bit harsh, wounded horse, 'tis but a scratch. Seriously I think it all hangs on Hugh and Wolverine. The longer he does it the longer a reboot will be. Once he's stopped they will wait a few years and then start fresh (IMO).
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