JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX Star Joaquin Phoenix Says There's A "Warmth" To Sequel's Controversial Ending - SPOILERS

JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX Star Joaquin Phoenix Says There's A "Warmth" To Sequel's Controversial Ending - SPOILERS

Joker: Folie à Deux star Joaquin Phoenix has broken his silence on the sequel's shocking ending, and he believes there was a "warmth" to Arthur Fleck's final scene...

By MarkCassidy - Oct 10, 2024 11:10 AM EST
Filed Under: Joker

If you haven't seen Joker: Folie à Deux yet, major spoilers follow.

At the end of Todd Phillips' highly divisive sequel, Arthur Fleck meets a shocking (yet perhaps inevitable) end when he's killed by another Arkham inmate after first taking responsibility for the crimes he committed in the first movie by renouncing his "Joker" persona and confessing during his trial.

The unnamed individual - who the audience is supposed to view as the real Joker - stops Fleck to tell him a joke, delivering a killer punchline with repeated stabs to the abdomen. As Arthur bleeds out, we see the inmate carve a smile onto his face in the background.

While speaking to IGN, star Joaquin Phoenix weighed in on the movie's controversial conclusion, and he feels Arthur's tragic final moments are not without "warmth."

"There's a warmth in that scene, which is nice. That's all that I was thinking about that I was after, is here's this young man who's telling me a joke and he's nervous to tell me the joke, I can tell that he's nervous, and I'm going to hear him out. And it's a pretty good setup."

Writer-director Todd Phillips also shared his thoughts on the ending.

"I like to think he died at peace in a way being himself. The kid says to him, 'You want to hear a joke?' And even though he thinks maybe it's (Lee) downstairs. We don't even know what's downstairs, but that sort of optimism that Arthur has, that's still in him. He's like, 'Well, yeah, okay, of course' because he knows that feeling of wanting to make somebody laugh."

"But I always think that's such a beautiful moment where it's like Arthur still has hope," he went on. "I think Joaquin is so beautiful in that scene. It's such a small nothing. I mean, beyond the death thing. That moment where he's looking at the kid and he's kind of giving the kid a polite laugh in the setup. He's showing appreciation for the comedy and appreciation for putting yourself out there. Something nobody ever did for him in the first movie in some ways."

Phillips has already admitted that Arthur was never The Joker, and was simply supposed to serve as an inspiration for the man who would eventually become Batman's nemesis. While this approach does seem to have worked for some, the sequel has been having a nightmare at the box office.

According to the latest updates, Joker 2 took in just $1.3 million in U.S. theatres on Wednesday, and we might be looking at one of the biggest second-weekend drops in quite some time.

From acclaimed writer/director/producer Todd Phillips comes Joker: Folie À Deux, the much-anticipated follow-up to 2019’s Academy Award-winning Joker, which earned more than $1 billion at the global box office and remains the (second) highest-grossing R-rated film of all time.

The new film stars Joaquin Phoenix once again in his Oscar-winning dual role as Arthur Fleck/Joker, opposite Oscar winner Lady Gaga (A Star Is Born). The film also stars Oscar nominees Brendan Gleeson (The Banshees of Inisherin) and Catherine Keener (Get Out, Capote), alongside Zazie Beetz, reprising her role from Joker.

The movie is rated R for “some strong violence, language throughout, some sexuality, and brief full nudity.”

Do you plan on seeing the Joker sequel in theaters, or have the reviews put you off? Let us know in the comments section down below.

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Forthas
Forthas - 10/10/2024, 11:55 AM
That end is still ridiculous to me at establishing a new Joker! It makes him a follower! Someone who is impressionable. That is the type of people that Joker manipulates because of their weak minds. In that sense it is saying the person who becomes Joker is weak minded.
MahN166A
MahN166A - 10/10/2024, 12:29 PM
@Forthas -

I mean if The Killing Joke is any indication, was he not impressionable when he was pressured into taking on the Red Hood moniker to help a few mobsters ransack his chemical plant for money? The dude got his name from a deck of playing cards. He was inspired by someone to want to become a comedian, and carried on his dark level of humor once transformed from the vat of chemicals. In some shape or fashion, the man who would become the Joker even in his various origin stories was in some way impressionable.
Forthas
Forthas - 10/10/2024, 1:11 PM
@MahN166A - But in this case he is copying someone else almost like a copycat killer. What you are describing is him reacting to the symbols of things that are shaping his world view. That is different from someone telling him what world view should be.

This is what I loved about Ledger's take, he had a world view and he spent the entirety of the Dark Knight film trying to bring people into that world view. If he was inspired by someone else then that means there is nothing unique about him. In fact, other people in the world of Todd Phillip's Joker were running around dressed like clowns and cuasing havoc and were inspired by Fleck. What makes a future Joker any different?
IronSpider101
IronSpider101 - 10/10/2024, 1:59 PM
@Forthas - I agree with this. There's also the fact that Arthur is a straight up regression of his own character in thsi movie.

In the first movie he flat out rejects that this was done for anyone else. He says committed the murders not to start a movement, not to make a statement, but because they were awful and it made him feel good to do it. That first movie is about him finding confidence and an escape from his life by taking his life into his own hands and becoming a monster. So this whole "it was me, lowly pitiful Arthur the whole time" rings hollow. And he's not sympathetic so it's like why am I even supposed to be invested here?
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Forthas
Forthas - 10/10/2024, 2:30 PM
@IronSpider101 - Interesting take! I have not seen Joker 2 (waiting for it to come on cable) but does the second film show how his followers responded? I ask because it would seem to that what you are saying rings true! If his followers like Lady Gaga find this outlook on life as being liberating why would'nt Fleck continue to find it that way also. It is like they are saying that Fleck created a worldview that everyone can relate to, but he can't even though the tragedies in his life (which is probably more extreme than most people) would justify his dark turn more than most others. When I do see Joker 2, it will be with a focus on the character study it is trying to present.
IronSpider101
IronSpider101 - 10/10/2024, 3:03 PM
@Forthas - Absolutely, in fact I'd say that's mostly what the film is about. The second film paints it as though "Joker" was always just an act that Arthur takes upon because he finally gets noticed for it and because his followers love him. He spends a good chunk of the start rejecting his Joker persona and trying to rehabilitate as Arthur. Then he embraces it but it rings hollow because he's just doing it for the crowd and he's fumbling through it with no plan or internal motivation. Then toward the end he renounces it because the expectations placed upon him are too much to handle and as a result a bunch of his fans give up on him.
MahN166A
MahN166A - 10/10/2024, 3:14 PM
@Forthas -

I can definitely see and accept your position in your take. But everyone finds some sort of position in their moral compass based on what they have seen or have been influenced by.
I am probably putting too much surrealism in my perspective of the character, but The Joker’s mindset and logic in how he views the world isn’t new. Even when the character was created or even expanded upon with The Killing Joke or A Serious House on Serious Earth for example.

With Heath Ledger’s Joker, I agree with you wholeheartedly. And his portrayal of the character is truly ambiguous in the fact that you don’t know anything about who he is or who he was before becoming The Joker.
All the constant ideas and theories of who he was (like being possibly ex military spec ops to be able to coordinate his crimes so that they were expertly calculated and executed).
The One Bad Day perspective was also put on full display in The Dark Knight where The Joker put Coleman Reese’s life up for the lives of people in Gotham’s Hospitals, and several Gothamites were trying to take Reese out. That is an easy translation of what you saw with Fleck’s followers causing the riots they did. Mob Mentality caused them to act on their own accords as well as being influenced by Fleck’s actions.

Proving once again that the character of the Joker can bring out a side of people that escapes the barriers of basic decency and humanity.
But understandably I know with Arthur NOT being THE Joker it causes a lot of strain on the depiction and your position is certainly justified
Forthas
Forthas - 10/10/2024, 3:51 PM
@MahN166A - You make excellent points! I haven't seen Joker 2 yet but given this conversation I think I will look at it with your points in mind.

Great discussion! Thanks for that!
MahN166A
MahN166A - 10/10/2024, 9:36 PM
@Forthas -

Thank you, as did you.

I also appreciated the conversation! If and when you do watch the film (obviously we all know it’s hard to for various reasons but) hopefully you find some enjoyment in it. I thought it was decent, not great or even worth a rewatch in my personal opinion, but it is what it is.
Looking forward to more discussions in the future.
MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 10/10/2024, 11:57 AM
I actually wouldn't have minded the ending if the rest of the movie was better. I'd be on board with the idea of Fleck being the inspiration for the real Joker, but Phillips didn't do the work needed to give that big reveal the proper impact.
AllsGood
AllsGood - 10/10/2024, 11:59 AM
Joker: Folie à Deux there's A "Warmth" To Sequel's.

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IAmAHoot
IAmAHoot - 10/10/2024, 11:59 AM
Haven't seen it yet, but having the actual Joker be inspired by someone that is known publicly just loses a huge part of The Joker's allure as a villain, as it would for most villains.
ComicBandit
ComicBandit - 10/10/2024, 12:02 PM
I really don't know what to say about this movie. But watching it made me feel like Todd Phillips got lucky with the first one.
McMurdo
McMurdo - 10/10/2024, 12:02 PM
I thought it was awful, personally.
Conquistador
Conquistador - 10/10/2024, 12:03 PM
Phillips made this movie to troll the fans that made the 1st one such a sucess. He's the real joker! Touché. Got the studio to cough up a hell of alot of cash in the process.

The real joke is quite meta when you look at it. Still a trash movie.
AllsGood
AllsGood - 10/10/2024, 12:07 PM
@Conquistador - The Joke is on Phillips than. After Monday actuals, Warner’s comic book sequel Joker: Folie à Deux opened even worse than initially reported, with a $37.6M
Conquistador
Conquistador - 10/10/2024, 12:11 PM
@AllsGood - How? he and the stars got paid up front! The dude is laughing at the whole situation on his yacht, doing blow and getting his dick wet buy all kinds a funky bitches.

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AllsGood
AllsGood - 10/10/2024, 12:28 PM
@Conquistador - SURE! You really think that's all Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix cared about was getting paid? While now have the worse comic book movie on their Resumes?

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Conquistador
Conquistador - 10/10/2024, 12:33 PM
@AllsGood - Hangover 2 and 3? lol. Joaqin hates doing sequels, so i'm 100% sure they offered him a shit load to come back. £200 million budget before marketing?? that production budget was no where to be seen on screen, it was all in their pockets! hahaha
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 10/10/2024, 12:41 PM
@Conquistador - He's reportedly retreated to his farm, is drinking heavily and shouts at anyone who asks if he's okay.
AllsGood
AllsGood - 10/10/2024, 1:29 PM
@Conquistador - With your thinking what does that say about his fans and followers went and PAID their Hard-Earned money to go see Joker: Folie à Deux? Expecting Joker (2019) sequel or better? I guess the Joke on you and supporter's while

the dude is laughing at the whole situation on his yacht, doing blow and getting his dick wet buy all kinds a funky bitches.

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Conquistador
Conquistador - 10/10/2024, 1:46 PM
@AllsGood - lol, so you get my point..the joke's on the movie goers who paid for this and fans of the first.
AllsGood
AllsGood - 10/10/2024, 1:59 PM
@Conquistador - I will NEVER pay or watch this movie. Along with millions of others. We will never be the Joke that's you and who went paid to see Joker: Folie à Deux.

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Conquistador
Conquistador - 10/10/2024, 2:03 PM
@AllsGood - huh? Where did i say i paid to watch that trash.

I downloaded it and watched it in pieces on my commute. I don't get your angle here, but whatever bro!
Conquistador
Conquistador - 10/10/2024, 2:10 PM
@ObserverIO - Probably true, but he's got enough money now to stay there and live out the rest of his days.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 10/10/2024, 12:09 PM
I didn't dislike the movie as much as most of the public seem to (I give it a 7 out of 10 or a B-) but that ending really UPSET me.

One of the BEST things about the first movies is that Arthur gave in and went full tilt crazy as the Joker and took revenge on all the people wrong him. While it was morally wrong for him to do so, it was a bit cathartic to see him do so. And I think that was one of the reasons why people liked the first one.

But i nthis movie, For him to renouncing his "Joker" persona in this movie, and never got back on the people who had did him wrong, especially the ARKHAM GUARDS, was such a let down.
THEDARKKNIGHT1939
THEDARKKNIGHT1939 - 10/10/2024, 12:46 PM
@Nomis929 - it's like if they made the first movie and Arthur doesn't kill anyone and just dies at the end. Shit was so pointless.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 10/10/2024, 1:23 PM
@THEDARKKNIGHT1939 - Exactly.
bobevanz
bobevanz - 10/10/2024, 12:11 PM
What a disappointment
THEDARKKNIGHT1939
THEDARKKNIGHT1939 - 10/10/2024, 12:13 PM
I would have forgave the rest of the movie if the ending paid off. But no. It was one of the worst endings of all time. The movie could have been a 10/10 and that shit would have still brought it down to a 5. Complete disrespect.
JayLemle
JayLemle - 10/10/2024, 12:16 PM
Man! I don't think I even want to see this movie when it hits VOD.
MrDandy
MrDandy - 10/10/2024, 12:33 PM
He was also just caught on a hot mic during the premiere telling Lady Gaga during the standing ovation that the movie is "horrible".
JustAWaffle
JustAWaffle - 10/10/2024, 12:39 PM
Ah yes. The warm feeling of a fresh corpse.

EgoEgor
EgoEgor - 10/10/2024, 1:01 PM
JOKER 2 is joker 1 in reverse: "I used to think my life was a comedy, but now I realize, it's a [frick]ing tragedy"
QuietStorm
QuietStorm - 10/10/2024, 1:51 PM
Saw it Friday night. Still dont truly know how I would grade it. Days later, I like it better than I did right after seing it. But....damn. I dunno. I guess a 5.5/10 since I'm still undecided. Havent had the guts to give it a second viewing yet but I know that'll cement how I feel about it.
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