Allison Mack, who starred as Chloe Sullivan in the Superman prequel series Smallville, was arrested in 2018 for her involvement in the cult known as NXVIM, led by Keith Raniere. Marketed as a self-help group of sorts, NXIVM became the focus of arguably one of the biggest sex scandals in recent memory. In 2021, the actress—who pleaded guilty to racketeering and conspiracy charges—was sentenced to three years in federal prison. Mack was released in 2023. Now, two years after her release, she has made a surprising appearance on Michael Rosenbaum's Inside of You podcast.
The podcast delved deep into Mack's history, through her time in NXIVM, her prison sentence, and finally, to being released and dealing with the aftermath of her actions. Talking about her actions with NXIVM, Mack stated that, though she wasn't seeking power, she did enjoy the feeling that came with it. However, her actions in the cult led her to struggle with her self-perception, as she bounced between seeing herself as "the worst human being on the planet," to someone who had good intentions:
"I wasn't, like, seeking power, but I won't lie and say that power didn't feel good. [...] You know, when you're in house arrest for three-and-a-half years, and then you're in prison for two years, you spend a lot of time thinking about what happened, and how you got to where you are, and what you did. [...] I yo-yo-ed back and forth between, 'I'm the worst human being on the planet. I'm all these awful things. I am horrible.' You know, 'devastated.' And then, I would go back and I'd be like, 'Well, no, I'm also, like... I had good intentions here, and I wanted to do this here.' And I'll look at my journals, and be, like, 'I was thinking this here, so I don't think I'm horrible.'"
Mack then said that, ultimately, she needed to come to terms with the fact that she was a human being with "light" and "dark" sides. This, she said, helped her recognize the things she needed to carry with herself as a lesson, and the ones she could forgive herself for:
"[It] was this dance back and forth of accountability and justification, and confusion, until finally, you settle into, 'Okay, I'm a human being, who has dark and light. I got caught up in a really messed up situation with really powerful people who had incredible ways of manipulating people over long periods of time.' And, 'What did I do that I need to sit with in my conscience for the rest of my life so I don't do it again? And what did I do, that I can forgive myself for?' And then, with that knowledge, you move ahead, hopefully with wisdom, and try and do better on the other side."
Rosenbaum asked Mack if she was aware of where things started to take a turn in NXIVM. Mack stated that, similar to the dynamics present in abusive relationships, she began to justify smaller situations that slowly escalated:
"I mean, my God, I was involved for 12 years. And stuff didn't start to get really disfunctional and illegal until, like, the eighth or ninth year that I was involved. So, it was like a very stereotypical—now that I look back on it—grooming progress that happened over a period of time. [...] It was a different form of an abusive relationship, where you make a decision to justify something that is a big deal at the time, but you're like, 'Oh, okay, I can figure out how to make this okay in my head.' And then, that becomes okay and normal. And so then, the next thing that happens that's extreme, you justify and figure out how to make it okay and normal, and then all of a sudden you're doing something totally different than what you ever expected yourself to do. But it happened incrementally, over time, and you don't notice it."
Coming to Terms With Her Actions and the Aftermath
Talking about her role in NXIVM, Mack stated that one thing she's struggled to come to grips with is the way she treated people while in the cult: "[One] of the things I definitely contend with on a regular basis is, like, 'How did I objectify people to the point where I thought it was okay to take away their autonomy?' Like, how did I get to a point where that was something that I thought was okay? And how did I get to a point where I thought it was okay to feel in power of people?'"
Rosenbaum suggested that was similar to the concept of good people doing bad things. Mack replied she struggles with the concept of labeling people "good" or "bad": "I have a really hard time with the idea of good people and bad people." The Smallville actress explained she works with people in prison who have done "really horrible" things, but she does not consider them bad people. Turning the topic toward herself and her situation, she stated: "[I] know that I have done really bad things, and I don't believe I'm a bad person."
Later on in the interview, Mack revealed she is not allowed to be in contact with friends from prison due to her probation, and subsequently explained her probation restrictions: "I can't leave the county without permission. I have a monitor on my phone and on my computer, so they keep track of who I talk to." Rosenbaum asked her if law enforcement could listen in on her conversations. Mack replied she didn't know, but assured her former co-star she would not do anything illegal, as she was in the process of rehabilitation:
"I'm not gonna do anything. I believe I'm rehabilitated, and I will always be in the process of being rehabilitated. I think I'll be in therapy forever, but I very clearly understand what happened, and that it was wrong, so I'm not concerned that I'm gonna do that. But I do have friends inside that I would like to get in touch with when I'm off probation, 'cause they're really good people who deserve support."
Dealing With Suicidal Thoughts
An important topic during the interview was Mack's mental state as a result of NXIVM being exposed. Rosenbaum asked his former co-star if she had considered suicide, to which she revealed she had. According to Mack, following the arrest of NXIVM leader Keith Raniere, she went into hiding in Mexico, where she considered taking her own life:
"I had moments of suicidal ideation. I had one moment where I was hiding in Mexico, when Keith had first gotten [arrested]. [...] And I was staying in a penthouse apartment by myself for two weeks, and I didn't know what was happening. And I went out on the balcony and thought, 'I could jump, and this could be over.'
However, she stopped herself due to a desire to know what was next for her: "But then, I was like, 'But then I wouldn't know what happens next, and I wanna know what happens next, and it'll be different tomorrow. So, I need to just hang on through this, 'cause it'll be different tomorrow."
Despite that, her suicidal thoughts returned. Mack said that, after going back home to her family, she considered taking her own life once again. However, thinking about her mother led her to reconsider that:
"We had paparazzi outside my parents' house, so I couldn't go anywhere without getting chased for really negative reasons, and that was really painful. I was flying back to New York on a regular basis dealing with my lawyers and eventually, the prosecutors, and all of that was really painful. It was so heavy, and I would have moments where I felt like, 'I don't know that I can carry this anymore.' And then, I would think, 'If I kill myself, I'm gonna hurt my mom so bad—I can't do that.' So, I didn't."
Mack was asked if she would consider herself to have been brainwashed, to which she replied she had been. NXIVM required its members to be branded with Keith Raniere's initials. Rosenbaum asked her if the branding had been her idea. Mack said it wasn't, despite having taken credit for it in an interview with The New York Times:
"No. I took credit for it [Laughs] in the New York Times article. [...] No, it was not my idea. No, it is not my initials. I will take credit for the things that I actually did do, and I did not do those things."