Joss Whedon On Female Superheroes In Film

Joss Whedon On Female Superheroes In Film

Or maybe that should read the lack thereof. Whedon talks about this current shortcoming in the superhero genre and theorizes that someone will reverse that trend, maybe even him. Plus, talk of The Avengers 2.

By TruthNoFodder - Jun 05, 2013 05:06 AM EST
Filed Under: Avengers
Source: The Daily Beast

Joss Whedon is still stomping hard for his little independent film he made while editing The Avengers, Much Ado About Nothing. God Bless his heart. It will be interesting to see just how big his name has become and if having 'Whedon' on a movie poster will translate to a big box office haul for 'Much Ado,' a film Whedon made with close friends at his house over the course of 12 days. I can't imagine that cost more that $1M or $1.5M to make, probably less. Now imagine if that makes $30-$50M worldwide? But I digress, we're here for superhero talk. As always, the interviewer squeezed in a few Marvel Studios questions and superhero talk ensued. When asked about the lack of female superhero films, here's why Joss thinks that's a fact and why he hopes that will soon change. "Toymakers will tell you they won’t sell enough, and movie people will point to the two terrible superheroine movies that were made and say, You see? It can’t be done" said Joss on the dearth of franchise-carrying female superheroes in a genre that has absolutely dominated the box office over the course of the last decade. He continued, "It’s stupid, and I’m hoping The Hunger Games will lead to a paradigm shift. It’s frustrating to me that I don’t see anybody developing one of these movies. It actually pisses me off. My daughter watched The Avengers and was like, “My favorite characters were the Black Widow and Maria Hill,” and I thought, Yeah, of course they were. I read a beautiful thing Junot Diaz wrote: “If you want to make a human being into a monster, deny them, at the cultural level, any reflection of themselves.” Well said.

The interview goes on for a bit about 'Much Ado' before jumping back to Marvel talk when Whedon is asked to discuss the possibility of an Avengers sequel minus Robert Downey Jr. Joss clarified that Downey, "He is Iron Man. He is Iron Man in the way that Sean Connery was James Bond. I have no intention of making Avengers 2 without him, nor do I think I’ll be called upon to do that. I don’t think it’s in my interest, Marvel’s interest, or his interest, and I think everything will be fine." But Joss isn't a fool and acknowledges that nothing is written in stone, especially in Hollywood. He continued, "But I know that this is Hollywood and you roll with things. You have to be ready for the unexpected. But I loved working with Robert, and everybody knows he embodied that role in a way no one else can. The day he was cast, I went up to [Marvel Studios president] Kevin Feige and said, “You brilliant son of a bitch.”

And when asked what's next for Whedon once The Avengers 2 is in the can, Whedon hinted that maybe, just maybe, he'll look at rectifying that female superhero problem. "I miss the blank page. I’d love to do a ballet, but I’m still thinking about how to stage it. And back to the female-hero thing, I’m not going to let nobody do it. It doesn’t have to be me, but it could be."


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jlabatman
jlabatman - 6/5/2013, 5:54 AM
Joss, just put Scarlet Witch, Wasp, and Ms. Marvel on screen already!
 photo sexy-ms-marvel-cosplay-683x1024_zps8a699d69.jpg
 photo New_costume__Scarlet_Witch_by_yayacosplay_zps3fdfd135.jpg
 photo 8094444388_5852ef692c_c_zps7c8d1148.jpg
PsyGuy
PsyGuy - 6/5/2013, 5:55 AM
CAPTAIN MARVEL please, Joss!
gillri
gillri - 6/5/2013, 5:59 AM
Emil Blunt would have been a much better Black widoe, Scarlet just looks too sexual for my tastes


and Norton was a MUCH BETTER Banner! Ruffalo was too cocky in his portrayal of banner, Norton has this vulnerability to his acting that completely works for the character
thewonderer
thewonderer - 6/5/2013, 6:00 AM
I want more female roles in CBMs...but not if comes at the huge cost of other characters (like Hawkeye). Big problem with Avengers imo
DeltaActual
DeltaActual - 6/5/2013, 6:00 AM
Imagine if had been given the greenlight to do his Wonder Woman movie! Damn! Epic mistake in cinema history!
AmazingFantasy
AmazingFantasy - 6/5/2013, 6:01 AM
" too sexual for my tastes?"

Are you mentally retarded?
ItsATrap
ItsATrap - 6/5/2013, 6:06 AM
Sorry, but the man is all talk. Black Widow had virtually nothing to do in that movie other than run away from The Hulk and smacking "Hawkeye" in the face. I'd love to see a Secret Avengers type of movie, where some female characters would actually do stuff, like Black Widow, Mockingbird, and maybe even Jessica Jones. Throw Hawkeye, Falcon , and Fury in there and you have an awesome spy thriller. But it will never happen, because as much as Whedon talks about raising the female superhero to be on par with their male counterparts, all he's done is show Iron Man making comments about performance anxiety and have Thor swing his hammer.
HongKongPooey
HongKongPooey - 6/5/2013, 6:08 AM
@BenderDickCumPatch I think he's gay that's why. Doesn't understand the beauty of women
Ceejay
Ceejay - 6/5/2013, 6:10 AM
Milla Jovovich should have been Black Widow.



Scarlet has a sexy body with the booty I'd prefer to bang every day of the week but for comic adaptations sake, Milla Jovovich has the Athletic gymnast physique of the character and she's Ukranian which is about as close to being Russian as you get (and her name middle name is Natasha)
CarlXVIGarfield
CarlXVIGarfield - 6/5/2013, 6:12 AM
Wasp should really be in Avengers 2 and/or 3. Would be great if they got Henry Pym in there as GiAnt-Man too.
gambgel
gambgel - 6/5/2013, 6:15 AM
WASP

&

Miss MARVEL

Whedon. Bring them on the Avengers sequels.
JoeMomma29
JoeMomma29 - 6/5/2013, 6:15 AM
There is a lack of Female Super Heroes and Black leading Super Heroes on the big screen!
Ceejay
Ceejay - 6/5/2013, 6:17 AM
Jensen Ackles should have been Hawkeye while we're at it.

Ceejay
Ceejay - 6/5/2013, 6:18 AM
@CarlXVIGarfield - I hear you, Bang on target bro!

supermarioworldE
supermarioworldE - 6/5/2013, 6:29 AM
Whedon's right. There just aren't any superhero films led by women that the studios take seriously. They half ass projects like catwoman and supergirl, then say that the audience's reactions to them are why they won't make anymore. It's all bullsh*t. I guarantee that if the effort was put into a Wonder Woman movie the same way they did for Iron Man, the reception for it would be extremely positive.

They're just not willing to take the risk because it's easier to stick to outdated conventions.
fortycals
fortycals - 6/5/2013, 6:32 AM
I hate the arguement that females in comics are dressed like strippers and have amazing bodies, as if all the men in comics aren't build like gods and dress in spandex and sometimes banana hamocks(looking at you namor). There are definitely some extreme instances, but for the most part all superheroes are eye candy. Tigra said it best "You would wear a bikini too, if you were covered in orange fur and live in california"
Ocelot
Ocelot - 6/5/2013, 6:42 AM
Would have been able to take his comments seriouly if he never had that widow scene with her clevage exposed in The Avengers. Not that i'm complaining about seeing Johansson's clevage
gambgel
gambgel - 6/5/2013, 6:43 AM
@Ceejay

Never thought in her, but yeah, she would have been almost a perfect casting. I would have believed her being a real spy, definetly.

Scarlett... feels like a hot american woman, but not a russian and killer spy. But Marvel went with the most famous name. Kind of sad, now that you made a solid point with Milla.
JoshBerger
JoshBerger - 6/5/2013, 6:47 AM
Black Widow is not a superhero but whatevs, Joss is da man.
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 6/5/2013, 6:48 AM
Here's a problem in our CBM timeline where we COULD have found a solution but didn't.

X-Men. Wolverine took over the X-Men, so Scott is just kind of there but no one cares. During his disappearance in X2, no one really cares - and Jean only says she's worried about Scott for a moment - just before Logan proceeds to kiss her. After that, who leads the X-Men? I'd say it's a toss-up between Wolverine and Magneto. When the dam is rupturing, and Cyclops is back with the team, all he can really do is try to get the jet back up in the air - and then he's (understandably panicking because Jean is about to sacrifice herself).

In the comics, as Halle Berry made note of YEARS ago - Storm was a leader of the X-Men. Now during "God Loves, Man Kills" she's actually held captive and tortured with Cyclops and Xavier, but here she's out trying to find the X-Men with Jean. Once they pick up Wolverine and co, Storm has nothing to do.

Now I LOVE X2, it's one of my favorite CBMs period, and I watched it FOUR times in the movie theater - but it did have its flaws. And Storm definitely could have done a lot more. It really doesn't help that the Last Stand is so universally panned (it really ain't that bad), and it features Storm as the actual leader of the X-Men; Mystique is depowered; Jean has a mental disability; Rogue is aborting her powers because she doesn't want to lose her boyfriend; all the Omegas are dressed in corsets; and the coolest female X-Man looks like a boy.

I have a bad feeling that Days of Future Past is going to have Wolverine take over Kitty's establishing role from the comics.
jcfrommars9
jcfrommars9 - 6/5/2013, 6:49 AM
@KryptonianAbominationClone

No, Whedon has always sounded like that.
ParisSun
ParisSun - 6/5/2013, 6:50 AM
@yingyang
They are dressed like strippers in the comics, the source material.

I don't know where you live, but fromthe clips of Winter Soldier, ScarJo's Black Widow is dressed like many women I see in the mall. In fact she's much more covered up. If Joss wanted to go T&A he could go with the source material and show more flesh with the women.

And Black Widow didn't get as much screen time, even though I think she did pretty good, because they had to give time to the Big 3 (Iron Man, Cap, Thor). Those guys helm their own movies, they are going to get the time. I don't understand why people don't get that. They are not going to give more time to Black Widow and Hawkeye over Cap and Iron Man.
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 6/5/2013, 6:51 AM
@blackandyellow
And Wolverine is about to be in his 7th.
gillri
gillri - 6/5/2013, 6:52 AM
@HongKongPooey

and being gay is a problem to you?

what are you 10 years old now?

being too sexual means what it means, I cant simplify it for you.
WeAreTheMeta
WeAreTheMeta - 6/5/2013, 6:52 AM
Speaking of the lack of female heroes in film, how about discussing the lack of female villians too? Really the only female villians (that aren't just minor henchwomen) put onto the big screen have come from X-Men films or Batman films: Mystique, Lady Deathstrike, Dark Phoenix, Callisto, and soon Viper; Talia, Catwoman, Poison Ivy. (If I forgot someone let me know). Hopefully Man of Steel and whoever Karen Gillan's villian is will expand this trend.
That being said, wouldn't a super fight between Ms. Marvel (Carol Danvers) and Ms. Marvel (Karla Sofen/Moonstone) be awesome to see live action on the big screen?
gillri
gillri - 6/5/2013, 6:52 AM
if you want to further women comic book roles, we need more casting like Amy Adams and less like Scarlet Johansen
pintoman
pintoman - 6/5/2013, 6:54 AM
It's really just semantics. It's primary lead role vs not primary lead role—that's the hair splitter. Movies with female "super heroes" (or lead roles) exist. They are no less super than Batman:

X-Men (Storm; Shadowcat; Rogue; Jean Grey)
Kick-Ass (Hit Girl)
Avengers (Black Widow)
All the Alien films
Avatar

I'm sure there is more.

Being the lead title would only add screen time and marketing focus. Not sure that many young girls want to see a film "focused" on a female lead—and I'm sure there are not enough young boys willing to buy a ticket for a film with a female story arc.

ruadh
ruadh - 6/5/2013, 6:56 AM
@TruthNoFodder

The little commentaries throughout this piece made it pretty difficult to read, but you seriously think a film shot at his house, over 12 days, with his friends cost $1 million?

It's being hailed as a return to micro-budget filmmaking. He wanted to use steadicam for the entire picture, but couldn't because of budget restrictions. There is absolutely no way this cost even half a million.
jcfrommars9
jcfrommars9 - 6/5/2013, 6:57 AM
@gambgel

Marvel's original choice I believe was Emily Blunt but they couldn't do it due to scheduling conflicts so they got Scarlett Johansson. However, according to the director of the Incredible Hulk, he wanted Mark Ruffalo for Bruce Banner but Marvel wanted Edward Norton because he was more famous. Funny, how things turn out.
ruadh
ruadh - 6/5/2013, 7:01 AM
@ParisSun
"Black Widow didn't get as much screen time..."

Iron Man and Cap both got around 37 minutes of screentime, with Widow coming in third with 33. Hulk and Thor both got less than 30.
jcfrommars9
jcfrommars9 - 6/5/2013, 7:09 AM
And Black Widow did much more than just run away from the Hulk which had nothing to do with her being weak.
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 6/5/2013, 7:10 AM
I know most people can't imagine it, but try anyway.

Suppose there were quite a few (still a vast minority comparatively) female superheroes out there who COULD be made into movie characters, but the suits won't use them because of how they look, and who their target audience is.

Then you've got all these other female action stars from the last decade, mostly played by Uma Thurman, Milla Jovovich, Kate Beckinsale, Michelle Rodriguez, and yeah, that's about it.... who've been in some seriously successful but ultra-violent movies.





They don't exist outside of their movies, and their still drawing audiences in. So with that in mind, you've got fans trying to barter with the studios - saying they'd rather see their female characters wearing whatever the studio deems NOT ridiculous... than to have them go unused. There's submission right there, but then you've got all these "purist" fans claiming that it wouldn't be right, and it has to be all or nothing... and the studios listen to these people over the others.

Do you think Black Widow was an easy score? We're going to have Wanda in the next Avengers movie, and I'm real curious about how she's going to look.
mook
mook - 6/5/2013, 7:14 AM
If RDJ doesn't want to appear as Tony Stark they should use War Machine as the man-in-flying-suit part of the Avengers team, instead of trying to replace him.
KoonEl
KoonEl - 6/5/2013, 7:19 AM
I think the problem with adapting female super heroes is that most of the old ones are copies of their male counterparts. Supergirl, Batgirl, Batwoman, Spiderwoman, Ms Marvel, She-Hulk, Hawkgirl, Ms Martian, and the list goes on.

Of course Fox get a lost of trashed talked about them on this site, but they have done more for the female representation with the X-Men films than any other studio combined. Storm, Rogue, Jean Gray, Mystique, and the X-Men or X-Women list goes on. The source material lends itself much better to having female superheroes. Not to mention that the women in the X-men are original and interesting.
ATrueHero1987
ATrueHero1987 - 6/5/2013, 7:26 AM
One of things Joss knows how to do, is to write strong female characters.
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 6/5/2013, 7:29 AM
Ironically, Anna Paquin plays Rogue better as Sookie Stackhouse than she did in the X movies.
Don't pat Fox on the head just yet... They're also responsible for Elektra.
ruadh
ruadh - 6/5/2013, 7:36 AM
@SuperJagerNaut

That first image you have isn't actually Ms. Marvel, but Moonstone posing as her with the Dark Avengers.

Which I am ALL for in Avengers 2. A government sanctioned team of Avengers they don't realize is made up of psychopaths, taking over from the real heroes...ties in well with the "personal" direction Whedon said Avengers 2 will be heading.
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