Ror Revisits: The Punisher (2004)

Ror Revisits: The Punisher (2004)

I'm doing the Punishers! But skipping the first Dolph Lundgren effort, that will take more beer. So first up, what is imo the most successful take on old Frank castle we have had so far..

Review Opinion
By MarkCassidy - Sep 10, 2010 01:09 PM EST
Filed Under: Punisher
Source: Ror Reviews

I was going to watch Warzone first and work backwards, I really was! One day that monstrosity will once again soil my player, but for now it will be the superior effort from Director Jonathan Hensleigh, starring Thomas Jane as Frank Castle.

I was never a huge fan of The Punisher. I mean I got the attraction, I understood that he was a complete anti hero and that for him killing was as natural as breathing and so on and so forth, I was just never that interested in his stories or the writers that they seemed to attract. But, then when Garth Ennis took over a run I took notice because I'm a fan of his other work. I enjoyed the run for what it was and felt that he tried to delve a little deeper into what really made castle tick, and the nature of vigilantism as a whole. Heinsleigh's movie isn't really like that at all!(although it does use characters/situations from Ennis's comics) But, I still prefer it over 2008's Punisher Warzone which some fans cite as being truer to Ennis's run. Why? Because its a better movie.

This film follows the basic Castle story we all know even if the locations/circumstances etc are re-jigged. Here Castle is an undercover FBI agent who inadvertently causes the death of Howard Saint's(John Travolta) son. Saint takes his revenge by having every member of Castle's family, including his wife and son, brutally murdered. His men leave castle for dead but he survives and transforms himself into the ultimate avenging angel of death, The Punisher. You want more plot? He kills lots of people! What more could you want from a Punisher movie? Well, personally I would like something more. I would like to give a shit about the characters I'm watching! And thankfully, Heinsleigh and co screen writer Michael France go some way to giving us that, even though their actual dialog is a bit ropey at the best of times. I know that the whole point of The Punisher is that he feels no emotion, that he has becomes a very black and white guy that kills without thinking about consequences, and I think that is captured in this movie. But they do add a tad more humanity to him and admittedly tone down his misanthropy quite a bit. But I think it works for the best. Don't get me wrong, this is still a dark dark film. Castle is no Bruce Wayne, if your a criminal your dead. And the violence is pretty unrelenting. Jane makes a great Punisher too. His performance isn't particularly showy or layered(God forbid!) but he's just icy and ruthless enough to convince as a man who has nothing to lose, while retaining a small fragment of his humanity. Travolta is ...Travolta! As far as I'm concerned the man hasn't played anyone else since Pulp Fiction. But he's effective enough as a right bastard. Supporting cast wise we have Rebbecca Romaign as the (sort of) love interest. She loves Frank, he loves guns. She's pretty good but her part is woefully under written. And she brings with her two "comic relief" buffoons as baggage. A major misstep. This film would have been a lot better without laurel and hardy, even though a pre X-Men: The Last Stand Ben Foster is as good as always as the skinny one. Will Patton, another very under used actor, also pops up as Saint's right hand man with a secret (Shhh, he's gay!). The action is also very well done. A totally insane brawl with wrestler Kevin Nash is a high light and their are plenty more scraps, gunfights and explosions on offer too.

But, despite all of the positive things I have said about this, The Punisher is not a great movie. Its not even very good. Its decent. The film is just hamstrung by its script and the inescapable fact that this type of revenge movie follows a formula that is never not going to be too predictable. Fans of the character may suggest that thats the whole point, well I don't care if it is! It does not make for an engaging movie experience. As it stands its a dark, violent and entertaining throwback to revenge films like Death Wish but it keeps too much of the gloss associated with more mainstream fair to fully succeed. Still, like I said, its a damn sight better than the much more violent, darker but completely rubbish Warzone which I will attempt to review next week. Wish me luck!




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SCOURGE
SCOURGE - 9/10/2010, 1:33 PM
I rewatched this the other day, and I liked it alot better. I is certianly superior to the second one.
InTylerWeTrust
InTylerWeTrust - 9/10/2010, 1:36 PM
When I first saw this in 2004, and I hadn't read a Punisher comic, I really liked it a lot. Hell, I still like it. I wish Jane could come back and voice Frank in an animated movie or something.

But I haven't seen War Zone, and probably never will :)
crazyish
crazyish - 9/10/2010, 1:36 PM
completly agree good movie could have been better but light years better then the previous piece of crap and the stupid warzone
SHO1138
SHO1138 - 9/10/2010, 1:38 PM
Well said my good man.
Both movies to me feel like a nice jacket that's missing it's buttons.
MassExecutions
MassExecutions - 9/10/2010, 1:40 PM
Good rundown, Ror.

The problem for me that it was a revenge movie. It was personal. That's not how it is for the Punisher. He as a war with crime from the beginning, not a particular person that bumped off his family.

The Punisher can be cold, and you can still care about him and create tension in a film. Westerns, war movies, and heist movies do stuff like this all the time. They just need a better script and director.

Warzone has violence that I enjoy, and I like Ray Stevenson. Everything else is... pretty bad.
superbatspiderman
superbatspiderman - 9/10/2010, 1:42 PM
I don't care what anyone says this is an amazing movie because it brings emotion to the character and the action is realistic and not over the top like Warzone's.
marvel72
marvel72 - 9/10/2010, 1:45 PM
@ rormachine

good reveiw,mate.

personally i can't stand this film,apart from the fight with kevin nash.

but warzone was a better portrayal of the punisher ray steveson was better than thomas jane,the origin was correct in this movie & the violence was shit hot.

its the acting that lets this movie down.

anyway the rights are back with marvel now,lets see if they can show everyone this is how you make a decent punisher movie. :)
BillyBlack
BillyBlack - 9/10/2010, 1:48 PM
Good review. The movie was OK like you said.

If it was on HBO or SPIKE or something, I'd leave it on. I tried watching Warzone, man what a stinker! It coulda been real good to, was just too damn campy. Jebus Dominic West, what happened to you?! Far cry from The Wire.

Gusto

I can see why you liked it. I liked Stevenson as Punisher. There was just far too much drivel for my liking. And not in a fun, Schwarzenegger/Commando kind of way.
TheMyth
TheMyth - 9/10/2010, 1:50 PM
Nice. I especially agree with the analysis of Romijn and "Laurel & Hardy" lol. Basically all interactions between characters are just segways into more gratuitous violence, which the action and realism of it are awesome in every sense of the word, there is little more than that. Great Review! Every time I read one of your revisitations I go back and watch it again myself for nostalgia... can't say I'm looking forward to Warzone again.
continuezero
continuezero - 9/10/2010, 1:52 PM
I actually don't mind this movie, nothing to brag about but still decent. My only issues are as follows;

1)Travolta has no place in CBM World. Period.
2)When they first kill Castle at the big family outing it was one of the cheesiest scenes ever...everyone is gettin shot and killed and then they turn on Castle and they end up by the docks and they start BLASTING AWAY...and I MEAN BLASTING AWAY at close range with like handguns and shotguns...it was too much. If they had shot him a couple of times while he was diving into the water fine...but there's one scene where he's on his knees and they blast him in the chest within a 1 foot range. No one is surviving this...even in CBM world and even in the movies...it was just so impossible...even Thomas Jane's "death" scene when they are blasting him is pretty cheesed out.

Other than that...decent movie...
Hawksblueyes
Hawksblueyes - 9/10/2010, 1:54 PM
Ror: That's the whole point!=D

Seriously though, you inadvertantly and indirectly nailed the perfect Punisher movie's.

Anyone on this site that has not watched them, should rent Death Wish 1 and 2. Imagine a skull on Bronsons chest and that his name is Frank Castle. I don't beleive they will make a better Punisher movie than either one of those.

"I see you beleive in Jesus, that's good cuz you're gonna meet him." Classic!
xbigvmanx
xbigvmanx - 9/10/2010, 1:58 PM
I thought this was probably the best of the three. The violence felt like the movies during the 80s like death wish. I liked how he got his revenge by manipulating the Mafia. Warzone was crap. What were they thinking especially the acting it was B-level all the way. As for the Dolph Lundren made Punisher a bad azz. I thought the action choreography was good. I don't think this character is salvageable with a reboot now the Marvel owns the rights. It would take time a long time till people the last three will be a distant memory.
flames809
flames809 - 9/10/2010, 2:02 PM
dam i loved this movie even my sis whos not into the comic book movies and comics she said this was a good film.
skidz
skidz - 9/10/2010, 2:02 PM
Not bad. I can sum up my view of the movie as it's a great Punisher movie, just not a great movie. The other end of the spectrum is Superman Returns (I saw the earlier revisit of this one) is a good MOVIE, but not a good Superman movie.
MassExecutions
MassExecutions - 9/10/2010, 2:05 PM
Now that Marvel has the rights back they should NOT do a reboot. Reintroduce him as a side character in another character's movie. Daredevil or Moonknight would be perfect.
superdog
superdog - 9/10/2010, 2:06 PM
great review @ror, but i actually liked the dolph lundren one the best. sue me.
Deathlok
Deathlok - 9/10/2010, 2:11 PM
Warzone kicked this movie's ass. Travolta sucked. So did the setting in South Florida.
SHAZAM171
SHAZAM171 - 9/10/2010, 2:12 PM
This could've been great. Shame,The only thing that was awesome about this film, was the fight against the Russian.
marvel72
marvel72 - 9/10/2010, 2:15 PM
@ massexecutions

totally agree i want an epic crossover movie event,like have spin off movie that introduce daredevil,moon knight,ghost rider,powerman & iron fist.

that would so dark & awesome.
JoshWilding
JoshWilding - 9/10/2010, 2:20 PM
I've not actually watched this movie since I rented it when it first came out on DVD so can barely remember it, lol! :P Great review though ROR - Warzone was trash but Ray Stevenson nailed how I think the character should be portrayed!
skullboy
skullboy - 9/10/2010, 2:23 PM
Warzone was better. It was much truer to the Punisher and his origins from the comics.
acoldbloodedepitaph
acoldbloodedepitaph - 9/10/2010, 2:24 PM
nice review dude. you made some very valid and well thought out points.

I do feel on the opposite end of the spectrum with a few things, but we all have our opinions. I do feel that there is something lacking in all the punisher movies. The Lundgren film is tolerable for what it is. nothing spectacular, but entertaining none the less. The Thomas Jane punisher seemed to touch more on the human side of castle. Yes he is still a ruthless killer of criminals, but it showed a bit more of the inner torment that he was feeling due to the scenrio. The Ray Stevenson punisher really kicked it up a notch when it came to graphic violence, but I felt that it took a step backward with the story telling. It was almost to close to the comics. And I feel that Lexi Alexander an co. re-wrote some charachters and situations poorly. it was just not enough for most movie-goers to feel satisfied.
I am a film student, a writer, and aspiring filmaker. The opportunity to work on something like the punisher would be a dream come true, but I see the definate hurdles involved with not only actually doing it, but pulling it off. It would take alot of careful thinking and manuvering to create a punisher story that not only is captivating to audiences on a story perspective, but also would be good eye candy.
blah
blah - 9/10/2010, 2:28 PM
i loved this version of punisher, and was hopeing to see thomas jane reprise his role and show a punisher that was going around with his van and taking out the skum of the city.too bad we will never see it now he was awesome as frank castle.
MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 9/10/2010, 2:31 PM
Stephenson didn't touch Jane imo. He mumbled his way through the movie. Like I said, I'll take a decent film that takes a few liberties with the source over a faithful turkey any day of the week. Warzone actually bored me. I was sitting there watching heads explode and I was bored. Something wrong there.

Mass, good pints all. Although even The man With No name showed some emotion! As far as Punisher declaring war on all crime not just the killers of his family, well I guess every story needs a beginning. Warzone had him worrying about the family of t a cop he killed. Its difficult not to have that type of plot device in a movie. Although I would love them to attempt something more like your talking about..but with Jane back in the role.

Anyway, thanks for the comments guys:)
Shaman
Shaman - 9/10/2010, 2:45 PM
Awesome review as always!!! Always a joy to read ya, bud! And honestly, i couldn't agree with you more! This is the problem i've always had with Punisher. What ever my tastes require in terms of film making, Punisher's concept does not have. AT ALL. No matter who you have to write the script, no matter who you have to shoot the scenes, no matter who you have to play the part, the very concept lacks what it takes to make me feel like it's a "good" film. When i watch a movie, i like to identify to either the leading character or at least his concept. But i find there's no humanity to this character and the little that Jane brought was the only thing that made me enjoy his performance. But it didn't feel like the Punisher from the books. I "enjoyed" Tom Jane's version the most but i could definitely tell it wasn't a "good" film for my tastes. Punisher has always been a supporting character to me and IMO, Marvel themselves couldn't transform him into a successful leading character at the box office. Rambo survives on nostalgia alone. Punisher doesn't even have that going for him. I'd love him to be a part of a Wolverine or Daredevil movie but i don't see him succeed alone. Ever.

Wow Witty! You just actually made me appreciate the film better without having to freshly watch it again! Great points! I agree with everything you said :)
Talontd
Talontd - 9/10/2010, 2:52 PM
@Ror

Good stuff, but i would've given it 3.5 ;)

Damn that script and the stupid beach scene!!!
MassExecutions
MassExecutions - 9/10/2010, 2:52 PM
@Ror - Thank you. Same to you.

The beginning for the Punisher was the moment his family died, and the first criminal he saw after that.

Yeah, some emotion, but not much more than the man with no name. For example, the outlaw josey whales might be too much.

If you want a plot device that more people can relate to, add hostages, just more intelligently than the end of Warzone. OR I think you could do it if you just a villain that was really, really bad. I mean, I almost felt sorry for Travolta's character. He did NOT know who he was $%^%$ with.

I was re-reading some of the black and white 80's and 90's stuff the other day, and I think that perfect vehicle for the Punisher would be a cable channel TV series with almost a police procedural tone that pulled zero punches on the violence.
MassExecutions
MassExecutions - 9/10/2010, 3:01 PM
weneedrevelation - see, now I kind of agree with you, but believe it or not that popsicle scene is in the comics. I own the issue. Crazy, huh? It kind of worked when Romita drew it. Can't remember who was writing.

@ladder7 - THANK YOU FOR YELLING SOME GOOD POINTS. Yes, Stevenson did have a better physical presence, and when he shotguns that guy while holding the kid, I totally said, "That's the Punisher."
MassExecutions
MassExecutions - 9/10/2010, 3:04 PM
WHAT?!?! What reasons?!?
W4RDude87
W4RDude87 - 9/10/2010, 3:05 PM
I actually enjoyed the Dolph Lundgren Punisher movie(mostly cause Im a big fan of those old school 80's action flicks)the 04 one is also good, and my favorite one is Punisher WarZone.IMO Ray Stevensen gave the best Punisher performance, to me he is the fracking Punisher!, and Thomas Jane is second best Punisher, and Im still a huge fan of Thomas Jane.I read that if there was a sequel to the 04 movie that it would have been so low budget the only big action sequence would have been shot at a friggin Wallmart O_o??.And I don't care to see another Punisher movie, Im so sick and tired of getting the Punisher rebooted so many times.Even if Warzone gotta straght to DVD sequel starring Ray Stevensen that would be fine with me and other fans of WarZone.I really hope the best thou if they decide to make another Punisher movie in the future.

@ladder7
Very good points man, I could not have of said it better myself.
MassExecutions
MassExecutions - 9/10/2010, 3:10 PM
Oh, well, yes. They could make it a complete screw up. But a GOOD series would be even better than a good movie, and maybe more doable.
BillyBlack
BillyBlack - 9/10/2010, 3:26 PM
SirPrize

Is that a revisit? or a re-boot? hahahh
AlexDeLarge87
AlexDeLarge87 - 9/10/2010, 3:38 PM
In Jane´s version, there was better acting. In Stevenson´s version there was better action and atmosphere.
The Next reboot should combine these two things. Then it would be perfect.

Tom and Ray were both great as Frank Castle and i would be happy if one of these two guys would get the new chance to play Frank.
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