Ror Revisits: Spider-Man 2

Ror Revisits: Spider-Man 2

Skipping the first one(for now) because this sequel is seen as not only the best in the series, but up there with the best CBM's of all time. So, is it?..

Review Opinion
By MarkCassidy - Jun 11, 2010 07:06 AM EST
Filed Under: Spider-Man 2
Source: RorsReviews

The second installment of Sam Raimi's Spider-Man trilogy is..or was, further proof that superhero sequels will always top their predecessors. The first movie was very good, but a bit of dodge cgi, a bit too much schmaltz, and a power ranger Goblin(despite Willem Dafoe's excellent performance out of the suit) couldn't go unnoticed. Spider-Man 2 improves on the first one in pretty much every way. Of course we will always get the "Dunst isn't hot enough", "Organic we shooters suck" crowd but I'm reviewing the movie for what it is here, if some minor changes for adaptation completely ruin a movie for you I suggest you stop watching them and stick with the comics.

The film begins 2 years after the first, with Peter Parker finding is very difficult to balance his personal life with that of his crime fighting alias. His relationship with best friends MJ and Harry Osbourne suffering greatly because of it, and Harry'd obsession with getting revenge on Spider-Man for the death of his father further straining things. Meanwhile, well meaning but egotistical scientist Otto Octavius embarks on an experiment to create an unlimited energy source which will lead to tragedy in the death of his wife, and his insanity, turning him into the mechanical armed Dr Octopus. He then begins to wreak havoc on the city both in an attempt to both rebuild his machine, and to destroy Spider-man who he blames for the death of his wife. Parker having decided to hang up his suit and live a normal life must decide to take the responsibility that comes with his great power and get back in the web head's duds.



Its not exactly a complex or very original plot, but it works very well. The performances are excellent too. Everyone outdoing their previous work in leaps and bounds. Tobey Maguire makes a great Peter Parker, whether you LIKE this particular take on the character or not, to deny how well he performs is sheer stubbornness imo. As Parker's life begins to unravel and he just can't seem to get a break, we are right there in the crapper with him. Likewise Kirsten Dunst as Mary Jane. So she isn't as "model hot" as the MJ from the comics(are you going to the theater solely to jerk off? Because they have special places for that..), she still does a great job with the character. James Franco as Harry, J.K. Simmons as J Jameson and Rosemary Harris as Aunt May all over stellar support. But its Alfred Molina as Doc Ock that threatens to steal the show. Some feel that making his character too sympathetic water down his villainy, I disagree completely. Its the sympathetic villains that provide the best drama because when they do evil things its all the more shocking and unexpected. Its also just more realistic in terms of a movie. In a comic a villain(any character) can be fleshed out and explored over a long story arc, a 2 hour film isn't afforded that luxury so they have to cram as many layers as they can in over that running time. Would it have made more sense if Octavius was an eeeevil scientist with an eeevil plan that becomes MORE eeevil after his accident? Of course not, that would have been silly. Anyway, that's just my take on it. I know my friend Billy Black will have an argument for me! The action scenes are also outstanding. This movie is actually one of the very few that successfully gets that balance of drama, comedy, action..just right. In fact a train top fight between Spidey and Ock is so good that it probably should have been saved for the climax, which admittedly could have been stronger.

So onto the bad. As much as I love Raimi's style, he does tend to go a bit over board on the soppy stuff and here its no exception. It works, simply because with these actors and this script you do genuinely care about the characters, and no CBM we have seen has as much heart as these films, but to tone it down ever so slightly would have made even more of an impact I think. Also, some bits just don't make a lot of sense, mainly Ock flinging a car at Peter Parker BEFORE he questions him about Spider-Man. How did he know he would be able to get out of the way? And as I mentioned, the end could have been better. Such a difficult thing to get right in any movie, but CBms really seem to suffer with endings because there is always that balance between finishing of this chapter and knowing that there will be another one. And we all know how that one turned out! But, to be honest I didn't even think Spider-Man 3 was THAT bad anyway. Look out for the revisit;)



So, am excellent film I think. Flawed, of course, but Marc Webb has his work cut out if his reboot hopes to be half as good as this.



Check out all of my reviews and revisits here:RorsReviews

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LEEE777
LEEE777 - 6/11/2010, 7:52 AM
Who the [frick] DELETED my Beckham Bluewater comic book article???

HAPPY WORLD CUP to you too!

And SPIDER-MAN 2 is one of the best cbm's ever made!

Stupid SONY's gonna [frick] it up with WEBB.
spider1489
spider1489 - 6/11/2010, 7:52 AM
yup this is the best one!!! love this movie!! ahh
spider1489
spider1489 - 6/11/2010, 7:52 AM
yup this is the best one!!! love this movie!! ahh
StevilNYC
StevilNYC - 6/11/2010, 8:01 AM
I still get chills when Mary Jane says "go get 'em, tiger"
StevilNYC
StevilNYC - 6/11/2010, 8:02 AM
It's like when Adrian told Rocky to win lol
TANKGIRL
TANKGIRL - 6/11/2010, 8:07 AM
jim sturgess gor new spidey

guys check out my 953 marvel character

953 marvel character cast
MassExecutions
MassExecutions - 6/11/2010, 8:14 AM
The two problems I really have with this movie are 1) a little to much Peter Parker without Spidey, and 2) too much of Spidey actually punching Doc Ock. That should have taken him down fast! Also, I though losing his powers being psychosomatic was a bit of a stretch. I the actual "Spider-man No More!" storyline in the comics, he was actually sick, wasn't he?
ErikBauer
ErikBauer - 6/11/2010, 8:20 AM
This movie simply has the best combat sequence of CBMs! It magically manages to bring Spidey, Ock and their comicbook fighting style on live action!

Who cares about organic webshooters when the rest is that good? You can kill me for that, but I almost prefere organic to self built webbers!
ASSASSIN666
ASSASSIN666 - 6/11/2010, 8:25 AM
If this movie isn't in the top 5 then there's something wrong with you!!!
supermarioworldE
supermarioworldE - 6/11/2010, 8:26 AM
Nice Review, Ror.

After all these years, I still gotta say SM1 was better. Whereas the first spidey film really pushed the envelope for superhero films, I think Spiderman 2 really played it safe
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 6/11/2010, 8:59 AM
TEA @ The REBOOT is gonna suck SPIDEY SH1T! : P

Its a sad sad way, what SONY's doing with WEBB.

ASSASSIN666 @ Agreed!
JoshWilding
JoshWilding - 6/11/2010, 9:00 AM
Brilliant review ROR! Spider-Man 2 is definitely up there as being one of, if not the, best CBM ever. The acting from everyone involved was top notch (Molina's Doc Ock especially) while the story, action and CGI was flawless.

As for Spider-Man 3...it wasnt all that bad I suppose but only because of the decent acting from most involved and the brilliant action scenes. Harry, Venom, the black suit, Peter/MJ, Gwen Stacy - all of those were handled dreadfully IMO!
MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 6/11/2010, 9:04 AM
No doubt Josh, like Tea I just mean that I don't think it deserve the almighty bashing it gets because there were some very good things about it. Next to Spidey 2 it really is a failure, but I would never put it in with the dreaded bottom of the barrel occupied by stuff like Elekta, Catwoman, Batman And Robin etc
MatchesMalone
MatchesMalone - 6/11/2010, 9:15 AM
Great review. Great movie. After reading this article, I think I'm gonna go pop ol' Spidey 2 in the dvd player after work today. And I agree about part 3. It's got enough redeemable elements in it for me to enjoy it. The Sandman transformation scene is very cool. Other than the whole "Flint Marko is the real killer of Uncle Ben" thing, Thomas Haden Church owned that role.
MatchesMalone
MatchesMalone - 6/11/2010, 9:16 AM
Oh, and Leee... take your ritalin, dude:)
JoshWilding
JoshWilding - 6/11/2010, 9:27 AM
ROR: I most definitely agree with you! I think a lot of the problems were down to a poor script and Sony wanting to cram too many villains in. Harry was too rushed, Sandman's link to Uncle Ben was idiotic, and Venom was a poor shadow of his comic book self. Had the characters been handled a little better, I think I could have gotten over all that emo crap, lol! :P It was a decent enough film though despite that and as you said, it definitely doesnt deserve to be put down with crap like Elektra and, in my opinion, Fantastic Four! I'm looking forward to your reviews of both that and the first movie though..!
MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 6/11/2010, 9:41 AM
Cheers, won't be for a while though most likely. I really don't want to sit through FF again! haha. But I'm thinking of doing Superman Returns next. I can hear the pitchforks being sharpened now!:)
Deadshot
Deadshot - 6/11/2010, 9:49 AM
Spiderman 1 8.5/10 Spiderman 2 10/10 Spiderman 3 7/10. I'm betting the reboot will suck.... god I wish they could still make Spiderman 4.
AverageCitizen99
AverageCitizen99 - 6/11/2010, 10:06 AM
Good review! This is one of my all time favorite CBMs next to Chris Nolan's Bat-films, 'Kick-Ass,''Iron Man,' and 'Watchmen.'
BillyBlack
BillyBlack - 6/11/2010, 10:21 AM
Here I come baby.

Love the review, Ror. The movie?... Not so much.

Although I will admit that the director's cut is much better than the theatrical release and has made me appreciate the movie more. I felt it was James Franco's Harry that threatened to steal the show, especailly in the much darker toned director's cut. I wish they left it that way in the theater. I just didn't buy the fact that Octavius was hell bent on destruction until Peter cried to him about what a good person he really is. That, to me, seemed silly. And all that goofy shit with Peter skipping thru the park with Burt Baccarat playing. All the battles I have to have on this site about Ang Lee's Hulk, with people talking their shit about Lee not "taking it seriously", and in the same post they call Spiderman 2 the best CBM of all time. I fail to see the sense in that. This movie was a disappointment when I saw it in the theater. Like I said, the director's cut made it a lot better. Octavius arguing with the arms after his escape, he really almost kills himself. The added scenes give the movie a much more logical arc. But overall, this franchise got progressively worse IMO.

So there it is. My dissenting opinion. Let the argument continue.
KeithM
KeithM - 6/11/2010, 10:24 AM
@RorMachine: I'm with you on this one, but...

"I'm thinking of doing Superman Returns next. I can hear the pitchforks being sharpened now!"

Having already heard you say you don't think it was that bad - WRONG! - please don't!

Read my recent article if you haven't already and you'll see that I'm so passionate about the character that I'll feel honour bound to respond telling you how WRONG! you are, and it will go back and forth and other people will jump in and arguments will start and names will be called...

I like you. Let's not fall out over a crap movie that we all just want to forget. I beg of you - don't go there. Please!! :D
MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 6/11/2010, 10:34 AM
Billy, man I actually have never seen the Director's cut! I'll have to. Also, I totally forgot about a few of the sillier bits, I added a sentence about em.

Keith, haha, sorry dude, but not only do I not think it was that bad, I think it was very good! And I can back up why, but at the end of the day its all going to come down to a difference of opinion, but the debate will be worth it!
Shaman
Shaman - 6/11/2010, 10:44 AM
Ror- Great review! I agree with you in saying that Spider-man 2 is one of the greats but not the best or even best sequel. IMO, Spider-man 2's "development" lacked when compared to Spider-man 1's "initiation". So i don't feel that it's one of the best sequels. Plot wise, X2 is one of the best sequels because it's "developement" surpassed X1's "initiation". Most people will give the gold to SP2 only because it's villain was more accurate physically but personally, i prefered a power rangered green globlin over it's comic book rendition. Once you get passed that detail, i feel Spider-man 1 takes the cake in the series. Even though Molina pulled an awesome performance, Willem still owned his ass. His performance was way more reminiscent of his comic book counterpart. And both films had awesome yet equal action sequences IMO. SP3 is surely not one of the worst CBMs but it is the worst of the series. I would personally struggle between which one of SP3 or X3 is the best. They were both entertaining films but lacked in many aspects. I place them in the same quality pile as the FF films persoanlly. However, Elektra, Catwoman, Spirit and Ghostrider are in an unredeemable world of their own. I CANNOT wait for your review of Superman Returns cause i KNOW that we are pretty much in total accord over it ;) Don't cheap out on the Routh evaluation, i want a thorough report on his performance, comparisons to all the other Supermen included!
CaptainAmerica1
CaptainAmerica1 - 6/11/2010, 11:00 AM
All 3 of these films were too "campy" and childish. My nephew was 11 when they came out and he loved them. Now he thinks they are very cheesey and corny, which they are. That should tell you a lot that a little kid thought they were "soo cool". All the while being a HUGE MM Power Rangers nut. The films were made very much in the original 1960's fashion to mirror the way it was back then. Problem is, the world has changed a lot in nearly 50 years. Nobody talks like that, acts like that anymore. The old Batman tv series is still cool, but very campy and over dramatic, as ALL 3 of the ASM films were in the same vein. And as a side note, IMHO, all 3 films had every single character mis-cast except JJJ. And Spiderman 3 is no better than a 3/10....#2 maybe a 6
BillyBlack
BillyBlack - 6/11/2010, 11:09 AM
Ror

If you liked the original, I think you will really enjoy the DC. Give it a look. And as for revisiting Superman Returns next? You know how I feel buddy... You bring the review, I'll bring the audience.

Photobucket

SirPrize

Lookin good my man! Go give teabag a whatfor.
StephenJ
StephenJ - 6/11/2010, 11:11 AM
Yes this is the best Spider-man movie.. although I hated the train scene where Spidey was unmasked was stupid... Im sure SOMEONE on that train would've had a camera phone or something and taken a picture and takin it to ol JJ. Although that fight scene is the second best cbm fight scene to date imo after the final fight scene from TIH. also the whole "Im spider-man no more" was kinda lame.

On to Spider-man 3
My problems with that movie is the fact that Topher Grace played Eddie Brock/Venom, when Eddie Brock was buff in the comics/cartoon and he gets played by a guy who is talked about on That 70's Show for being skinny? that was dumb.. Also of course the emo Parker and Dancing was GAY!
CaptainAmerica1
CaptainAmerica1 - 6/11/2010, 11:12 AM
If any of the Spidey films are in your top 5 CBM of all time, your smokin crack.

Dark Night, Iron Man, X-Men, Bat Man Begins, X2, The Crow, 300, The Mask, Sin City, Super Man, Super Man 2, V for Vendetta. The list goes on. Hell even "watchmen" was better than any of the spidey films, and I thought Watchmen was a little cheesey in many places.
MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 6/11/2010, 11:15 AM
@Billy, lmao, I look forward to it:) And I wish that pic was big enough to make out as my avatar!

CaptainAmerica, well, there you go, everyone sees different things. I thought the camp was there, but at the same time I felt it was needed. Seriously, Spidey isn't a character you wan't taken TOO dark or serious. As a fan of the comic surely you agree? But that being said I totally agree with your list of the greats, I love all of those movies.

Shaman, thanks man, as always! I agree with you too, I suppose it didn't take enough of a jump in narrative, although I thought it did with the characters development.
marvelguy
marvelguy - 6/11/2010, 11:19 AM
I think there will always be an issue or two with any comic book movie. "X2" hardly used Rogue after her being the star of the first. The cafe scene with the thrown car was a bit of a gaffe. I say how do you tell the audience his powers are back with flair/drama? Is he to almost get hit by a car randomly (comic origin)? We just have to swallow it. "Superman" is still the front runner. That said, Luthor didn't seem truly devious. The animated Luthor is the epitome of that character. My point, take the great with the not so great. When the great outweighs the crap, you have a winner.
CaptainAmerica1
CaptainAmerica1 - 6/11/2010, 11:20 AM
Absolutely agree Ror. Can't make spidey too dark. But they were overly cheesey. And I think that ruined a great character.
CaptainAmerica1
CaptainAmerica1 - 6/11/2010, 11:21 AM
If it had been made with the same outlook as the first X-Men film, I think it would not need a reboot. But, then there is the whole mis-cast issue.....Oh well
BillyBlack
BillyBlack - 6/11/2010, 11:38 AM
HAhaHahh Ror

Feel free to use it as a lead in to your review ;)

And I also agree, Spidey is meant to have a certain level of camp and funny banter. It really would be a slap in the face of the character to play him any other way. However, I felt like Raimi might have used that as an excuse to go over-board. Like you said, he has that tendency. I felt like the train was leaving the rails as soon as he was "Spiderman no more" and took that gay frolick thru the city. Was just too hard to recover from that initially. Kind of ruined my first viewing, which was critical to my opinion's development. I don't think I can ever view this as a great movie because of that. Well that, and a few other things. But that plot line in particular was annoying to me, and the way they capped it was the last straw.
MassExecutions
MassExecutions - 6/11/2010, 11:44 AM
CaptainAmerica1 - Did you just put THE MASK above Sin City? I DO NOT understand.
Shaman
Shaman - 6/11/2010, 11:45 AM
Ror- Yeah, Spider-man comes with camp whether we want it or not. It's part of his concept. They even reduced the camp factor by making Goblin a power ranger. How believable would a fully animated goblin face or even green make up have looked? It would have been way more campier. Raimi did good, period. He just deliberately pulled a hissy fit and an "i'll show you" to the studio for forcing his hand with the Venom issue. In the end they were right in their intentions while he was wrong for taking a dive to flip them the bird. Raimi has enought talent in his left nutt alone to pull off a decent Venom vs. Spidey film. I will always admit that the respect he lost from me for his childishness will never take any talent of his away from him. He is a brilliant film maker and his first two Spidey films are way more than required proof of it. Both are indeed part of the best CBMs ever made. Their not in my top 5 but in my top 10 for sure. Well Spidey 1 for sure, the second one if not would be close... i just haven't thought of a list yet LOL ;P

magic8- Batman's comics were never as realistic as his Chicago crime drama. The gritty/gothic camp that is present in most of his comics was nowhere to be seen in TDK. It's really what makes Batman Begins a better adaptation than TDK. IMO a better film aswell but that actually depends on what you prefer viewing in your films. Burton nailed that perfectly which is why i prefer both his batfilms over Nolan's. But to each's own.
MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 6/11/2010, 12:07 PM
Don't ind Magic 8, he gets carried away with his misery at times:) Anyway, if you wanna talk Batman, do it here dammit!

;)

Tea, you watching the World Cup? I'm praying Uruguay murder France but its not likely:(

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