Superman- Will Hollywood EVER get him right?

Superman- Will Hollywood EVER get him right?

....

Editorial Opinion
By LP4 - Apr 06, 2011 12:04 PM EST
Filed Under: Superman

Lately I have been watching all of the trailers...Thor...Captain America and Green Lantern.

I've noticed these three films are looking really great. But there is one thing bothering me.

How is it possible that we are 5 Superman films in and yet NOT ONE OF THEM managed to be truly epic? The Chris Reeve films...though good for their time period, still can't hold any weight for today's standards and that was proven in 2006 when director Bryan Singer tried to emulate the Donner-formula.

In terms of live-action media, all we've had for the past DECADE combined were Smallville and Superman Returns...neither one in my opinion were very good representations of Superman. Most of Smallville all we had was a sappy, soap-opera..."Dawsons Creek with superpowers" is what many called it. I did enjoy the early seasons of Smallville however but they've really strung us along for far too long with the suit. Waiting 10 full years just to see Welling wear the suit is what pissed me off.

Superman Returns I don't need to go into vast detail about the problems with that film. Too many problems for me to list. -_-

I am amazed Thor, Captain America and Green Lantern were nailed perfectly on their first outings on the big screen...while a hero as legendary and iconic as SUPERMAN is still being rebooted a 2nd time within a 6 year period. That is pathetic. I am not trying to insult fans of these 3 properties. I am happy their heroes are getting their due. But to be fair...Superman WAS the first hero...he saw good days with Chris Reeve...but he has also seen terrible gloom with weak portrayals over the past 10 years. I love Superman...he is my favorite superhero of all. I WANT HIM TO HAVE A GOOD FILM FINALLY. I want him to fight...i want him to stop getting "Dawnsons Creek" and start going more "300 style" we are overdue for a good film and HE is overdue for a decent portrayal.

I pray to God Zack Snyder is watching the upcoming CBMs so he KNOWS what to do with Superman. I know people still wanna hold on to Donner. But the time has come to rise above what Donner did...the time has come for Superman-fans to open their minds to OTHER and NEWER interpretations. The time has mostly come for Superman to finally throw a punch...for Superman to finally lay down his morals for just one minute and finally show his opponents just HOW FU*KING POWERFUL HE REALLY IS.

This editorial is just a way to get my thoughts out about this problem with Hollywood. And of course I would like to know everyone's thoughts on the situation.

Will Snyder be the FIRST to ever truly break free of Donner? Or will he at some point...sneak in a little bit of Donner into this film?

The sun is gleaming brightly for all OTHER heroes...the one superhero though who has BEEN butchered is Superman. He is the one superhero who really needs a good film. I am worried at this point that if this next film were to fail...

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golden123
golden123 - 4/6/2011, 1:25 PM
Hollywood HAS gotten him right. Superman 1 and 2 were awesome. As you mention. You call Superman overdue for a good movie, but at least he has gotten one. In fact he's gotten more than one. There are other popular superheroes that should get their own movie.
LP4
LP4 - 4/6/2011, 1:27 PM
@golden- Yeah Superman 1 and 2 were from when...the 80's ?

Back then special effects were too weak to make a truly epic film and even those first two movies can't hold much to today's standards. Green Lantern has a film out now and thanks to today's modern tech, he can harness GREAT special effects. Superman NEEDS that too.

I'm just saying he's overdue for an epic MODERN day film. I don't know why you people keep brining up the Donner stuff like it was created yesterday or something. Jesus Christ people, those movies were from the early 80's before I was even born- 1986. So i mean...I'm just saying MODERN audiences should see an epic Superman film that harnesses full control of TODAYS technology.
Dumegg
Dumegg - 4/6/2011, 1:29 PM
yup, superman 1&2. as far as future movies,... lets
hope so.
LP4
LP4 - 4/6/2011, 1:32 PM
According to your logics then...Superman shouldn't have another movie because of Donner films 1 and 2?

So...comparing those old 80's movies to MODERN day CBMs...they are technically weaker. Look at how epic Captain America, Thor and GL look. All I"m saying is- I want a MODERN DAY film for Superman like those movies.

Superman Returns was not really modern-day because it was based around an 80's timeline. And quite frankly that film blew major chunks...it sucked badly.

All I'm saying is- at least ONE modern-day Superman film that can stand up to Cap, Thor and GL.

That is it. And if you people wanna keep falling back on the Donner early 80's stuff then that is fine but i'm just saying- MODERN DAY. Those films are NOT modern-day and they really can't hold much to the other upcoming CBMs due to VAST improvements in technology they can take advantage of.
LP4
LP4 - 4/6/2011, 1:40 PM
Furthermore what I find not fair @golden is you make it seem like just because Superman had 2 successful films in the early 80's that means that modern-day Superman-fans have to rent those movies just to watch Superman in live form?

That is retarded. Only fans from the early 80's could enjoy Superman on the big screen like that. How about people who weren't born back then?

If Cap, Thor and GL can have films to appeal to their MODERN DAY FANS, then I think MODERN DAY FANS of Superman should also get a new film for their guy. It is lame to infer that Superman-fans should just have to rewatch old Donner stuff from the early 80's. While fans of other heroes get to see their guys up on the screen in modern-epic ways with epic improvements in technology and special effects.
Dumegg
Dumegg - 4/6/2011, 1:40 PM
no, what i ment was 1&2 were great but yes dated.
i'd be thrilled if they get this next one right,
which i think they probably will. this movie might
do the same thing for superman as batman returns did
for batman. so YES, i think hollywood will get it right.
LP4
LP4 - 4/6/2011, 1:46 PM
@Dumegg- Thank you, those OLD films were DATED. And I'm so fed up with people telling Superman-fans that we gotta put up with only having Donner-sh!t when some of us weren't even BORN back then to enjoy them. I would do anything to have a MODERN DAY Superman film along the lines of- Cap, Thor and GL.

Sadly we never got that. Smallville and Superman Returns I still say were terrible media for Superman. He needs a good modern day film for once. I still can't believe how badly Hollywood fu*ked him up with "Superman Returns"
Dumegg
Dumegg - 4/6/2011, 1:48 PM
i have a feeling your prayers will be answered when
synders version comes out.
LP4
LP4 - 4/6/2011, 1:51 PM
@Dumegg- I hope so. If he does just ONE homage to Donner i will throw my fu*king popcorn at the damn screen.

No offense to Donner fans but I'm really seriously tired of that guy.
Dumegg
Dumegg - 4/6/2011, 2:07 PM
i agree. that was the problem with superman returns,
homage to the donner movies. i think they have
completely re-invent clark, sups, lois ect... for
the big screen. they shouldn't even look at the
donner flicks for inspiration. let Cavill act. let
him discover the character in his own way.

personally, so far I think the casting has been
great. i have no concerns about their age or skill.

naterator
naterator - 4/6/2011, 2:14 PM
looking forward theres only really one good solution to this... get producers and directors that will allow a shared universe between other characters such as GL etc. i wrote an EPIC solution to getting what we all want moving forward in order to get the JLA that we all deserve. YOu might ask what this has to do with just getting a good superman movie....well most of us want more than just a good superman movie...we want a shared universe with GL, BATS, SUPES and all the others that are in early stages of production ie: FLASH.
We need producers and directors that want to please the fans and give us something great. NOLAN and SNYDER are in the perfect position to do this for us and for their own selfish reasons they are not doing it.
Hollywood can and will get it right when we can get a shared universe green lit. I really hope that once Nolan is gone that WB will say "ok now we are going to blend the universes together into one...and peter jackson is going to to that for us".
Read my article for more details at: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/absolutesupermanfortomorrow/news/?a=34615

oh and dont forget to vote if you havent already



LP4
LP4 - 4/6/2011, 2:23 PM
Thank you @Dumegg.

Hopefully we get the film we've wanted.

@naterator- I agree with you about a shared-universe. Once Superman and Batman are freed from Nolan, we can definitely look forward to it.
naterator
naterator - 4/6/2011, 2:46 PM
@LP4 i just hope that its done with actors that have already had a movie or two with their given characters and that we dont end up seeing a bunch of our favorite heores being reinvented just for the JLA...
LP4
LP4 - 4/6/2011, 2:50 PM
@naterator- I agree with you on that. But from recent news from WB it sounds like both Batman and Superman will get recasted. GL I'm not sure...could still be Reynolds which wouldn't make any sense with Batman and Superman getting recasted.
LP4
LP4 - 4/6/2011, 3:00 PM
But also, we need an EPIC Superman film BEFORE we start worrying about JLA.

Furthermore at future commenters...I clearly said in my editorial that I am NOT trying to insult Cap, Thor or GL. I understand they are earned their due. But in the same token...Superman has yet to have a proper modern-day depiction.

I'll be seeing all 3 films...and thinking in the back of my mind "Zack Snyder better be watching these so he can get some inspiration"
golden123
golden123 - 4/6/2011, 3:53 PM
@LP4: In that first comment that was replied to me you made the following statement "he's overdue for an epic MODERN day film". That statement along with the fact that you used the word modern a total of three times, in that comment, and the word today three times. Reintereprets how I understand this editorial. This editorial made me think you were complaining about the lack of a good Superman movie despite the fact that you had stated Chris Reeves' films were good for their time period. It confused me. I wasn't quite sure what your main point was, but now I not only get it, I agree.

P.S. I was born after Superman 1 and 2 although I still love those films.
LP4
LP4 - 4/6/2011, 4:07 PM
@golden- Sorry for the confusion.

I just get tired of hearing the "Donner" name. I honestly feel Superman is capable of so much more than what Donner could have ever dreamed of. I mean...with Donner we only got mainly- Superman romance.

I'm tired of it. I wanna see Superman beating the crap out of people, lol. I know he is peaceful but he is no punching bag and in the last film...that's what he was- a punching bag.

If Cap, Thor and GL can all kick asses...I really feel Superman can kick MORE ass. He needs a modern film that separates itself from Donner's played-out...outdated film universe of Superman.

But again I am sorry dude...just tired of Donner.
luckylu
luckylu - 4/6/2011, 5:17 PM
superman 1 & 2 were great and many people still enjoy them today. i dont understand what you mean by this: "And I'm so fed up with people telling Superman-fans that we gotta put up with only having Donner-sh!t when some of us weren't even BORN back then to enjoy them"- so by that statement nobody born after 1983 can enjoy star wars? see what i mean? your statement made no sense at all. i do however completely agree with you that its time for superman to whoop some a$$ with stunning visual effects. although im worried about nolans involvement with supes. grounding him in reality is exactly what donner did.
LP4
LP4 - 4/6/2011, 5:22 PM
@luckylu- Thank you for your feedback. Let me be more clear then...what i mean is- people born after the first two Superman films can't really enjoy them like people who watched those films in the actual theater could, see my point? Enjoying the films isn't about retracing the steps and watching them in your home...being a fan and enjoying the cbm means feeling the anticipation of the film coming out...watching it in the movie theater. That is what i mean. I really believe modern-day superman-fans should at least get a new Superman movie that is more modern and thus relatable to a modern-audience. Plus having good modern-day tech in terms of special effects would be great for a modern-day Superman film. Back the early 80's films couldn't offer that...because of the times.

The donner films are really just outdated.

luckylu
luckylu - 4/6/2011, 8:18 PM
@lp4- that makes more sense and i understand what you mean. i just hope they dont screw with the costume. I think if they do change it the general audience is gonna be like "wtf? thats not superman!!" as will the comic book community. i for one will not tolerate an updated costume.
MercMatt
MercMatt - 4/6/2011, 10:11 PM
Good read, @lp4. I agree with you all the way. I own all four of the Chris Reeves films, the Donner cut of Supes 2, and Superman Returns, but they're not enough. Bring on hard-hitting, bad guy beating Supes in the next film. Smallville, imo, isn't the worst thing ever, but a mouse could live off of the cheese from that show. This coming from a guy who watches it every week. Bahahah
LP4
LP4 - 4/6/2011, 10:35 PM
@earz, Superguy, luckylu, golden, naterator and MercMatt- Thank you all for your feedback!

@luckylu- Yeah I'm with you there, I am one of those people who believes it just wouldn't be a proper Superman movie if they removed his trunks. Keep the suit traditional, for sure. But if they changed it...I'd be ok with that too...I guess they might want to change it to flow more with the times...we'll have to wait and see. But the one thing we all know they can NEVER change is him having that big red "S" on his chest...if they removed that...I'd go postal. LOL

@TGDSuperguy- Agreed all the way dude, hell you be the director and I'll be the producer. lol sad if we actually did make a better Superman film than Hollywood ;D

@MercMatt- Cool dude! Yeah Smallville def isn't the worst...but it could have and should have been waaaay better. But yeah all those Reeve films just aren't enough.

@earzmundo- Agreed dude! Actually, I hated his Clark Kent more than his Superman, hahaha. I got so annoyed with how bumbling he was...I mean i get they wanted to differentiate Clark from Superman but still...there comes a point where the bumbling Clark just becomes a strain on my eyes, lol. I prefer the more, cool/confident Clark Kent. The more go-getter type.

Tim Daily is the supreme Superman/Clark Kent. For ANIMATION.

Dean Cain will always be my fav live-action Superman though.
superotherside
superotherside - 4/7/2011, 6:40 AM
lets hope so! :)
6of13
6of13 - 4/7/2011, 7:44 AM
I like the idea of Superman having high morals and all, but when someone is in a street fight or a brawl, there are no rules. Therefore, when he is up against a villain like Darkseid, he does not have to hold back. This does not imply that he forgoe on his "never kill anyone attitude" but it does mean that he can unleash the full might of his power. To get him right is make Clark relatable - one way for Clark not to be recognised (as Superman) is for him just to simply blend in and appear as normal.



mbomb22
mbomb22 - 4/7/2011, 7:50 AM
Superman 1 and 2 should be considered epic, for what they were when they were created. back then, the technology Donner used was state of the art. i mean, Reeve looked like he was flying, and it was so real looking. It was epic for a movie made back then. the only reason a lot of people didnt like Superman Returns is because it looked too much like the movies made back then in my opinion. And if you think about it, returns was a lot like #1;not a single punch thrown, against an inanimate object, that Lex was using to destroy America. For a movie back then, the nonviolence was fine, and thats the same type of thing Singer was trying to reproduce. But with cbms today, we see people getting the snot beat out of them, so thats what we want. I agree, we need Superman to be the most powerful man in the universe, and to show it as much as he can by beating someone from earth to krypton and back. But LP4, cant you agree that Hollywood did get it right, at least with 1 and 2, for the time period they made it in, and say that those movies were epic?
LP4
LP4 - 4/7/2011, 8:54 AM
@mbomb22- You're missing my point. I'm saying- MODERN DAY SUPERMAN FILMS. Those donner films don't hold up to today's standards. Smallville and Superman Returns i still say aren't good media for Superman- both of them made way too many mistakes and are way too controversial. And those old Reeve films, I disqualify because they just are too outdated and not only that but even those films could barely scratch the surface of what Superman is truly capable of.

Coldblood6
Coldblood6 - 4/7/2011, 10:23 AM
I wonder if VFX budget is a factor.

Superman Returns cost 200 mil to make and that is with only one character of that power level.

What happens when it's 2 or more.

I have no idea but it could be a factor.

Coldblood6
Coldblood6 - 4/7/2011, 10:28 AM
Just a question to Superman fans.

Other than the lack of fight/action epicness, i.e., no comparably powered villain, he never throws a punch, etc., what else was missing in the portrayal of Superman in Superman Returns.
LP4
LP4 - 4/7/2011, 10:42 AM
@Coldblood6- They completely changed his character ie- gave him a child out of wedlock when it was clearly stated in the comics many times over that kryptonians can't bear children with humans because their biologies are just so vastly different. They also screwed up Lex Luthor's characterization...but that falls in line with copying the Donner films when Singer really should have gone in a completely NEW direction with the film and based it more on the comics rather than the previous films. In other words- Superman Returns should have been a full-on reboot. Instead what we got was a loose-continuation of the Donner-flicks.

That's why i like what Snyder said...when he said his film would pretend as if no other Superman films existed...that's how it should be- a fresh, clean slate. No adherence to the previous films. They should make this movie as if it had no other films...like GL, Cap and Thor (they had no previous films to adhere to) that's how Snyder and Nolan need to treat this new Superman film.
mbomb22
mbomb22 - 4/7/2011, 10:50 AM
@LP4- ok, i see what your saying. and your right, for what Superman should be today, neither comes close. I hope they show Superman as the most powerful man in the universe, and have him duke it out with one of his toughest villains, and not just Lex Luthor
blackcelebration
blackcelebration - 4/7/2011, 10:58 AM
Sorry, but the first two Superman films are masterpieces of the genre. Yes, effects have improved but all the effects in the world don't replace excellent story telling, and these two films were it.

Don't get me wrong, there are films out there with better effects, but as far as story telling and acting performances, as well as direction goes, the first two Superman films are the standard.

Also, the fact that we still talk about them over thirty years after they were made shows that they have in-fact withstood the test of time.

Also, films such as Batman 89, and the 90's Batman films, although, revered as masterpieces at the time, now look dated and of their time, also their storytelling doesn't compare to the first two Superman movies.

Effects age, stories don't.
blackcelebration
blackcelebration - 4/7/2011, 10:59 AM
Also, Captain America sucked when it was first put out on the big screen.
Coldblood6
Coldblood6 - 4/7/2011, 11:14 AM
@ LP4

Thanx for the answer.
LP4
LP4 - 4/7/2011, 11:26 AM
Ok...people seem to have a tough time grasping what I"m saying here- I want Superman to have a MODERN film.

"blackcelebration" if you reread everything i've written, it all implies I just want a Superman film set in the modern times. Smallville went more modern but they also use and reference the Donner-universe quite a bit and the show itself has made way too many mistakes.

Superman Returns though made in 2006 was still adhering completely to the Donner flicks and thus was set in an 80's time era.

For the LAST TIME I DO NOT GIVE A RAT'S ASS ABOUT THE DONNER FILMS, NO OFFENSE BUT THOSE FILMS DO NOT ANSWER THE POINT OF MY ARTICLE. SO PLEASE EVERYONE- STOP BRINGING UP THOSE MOVIES.

LP4
LP4 - 4/7/2011, 11:30 AM
@Coldblood6- No problem dude, thanks for the feedback!
mbomb22
mbomb22 - 4/7/2011, 12:01 PM
@LP4-you know, i dont think we can say SR was set in an 80's time era. didnt they have cell phones in that movie?! lol
Stumblin
Stumblin - 4/7/2011, 12:49 PM
Sorry but their has yet to be a decent Superman movie, I hated the originals. They were boring, nostalgic yes, but very very boring.
LP4
LP4 - 4/7/2011, 1:39 PM
@mbomb22- Well for the most part it was set in the 80's Reeve era.

@Stumblin- Yeah i agree dude!!! THANK YOU!!!!

Reeve films= VERY BORING.

Superman Returns= VERY BORING.

aantny88
aantny88 - 4/7/2011, 1:45 PM
LP4 nicely done piece! I agree with most of your points about Superman not being done justice, not even by Donner. The most epic parts of his films was the use of the John Williams theme song! We never got to see Supes true power and abilities in any of those films. Yes for 1978 and 1980, they were decent but not spectacular. The villians were poorly chosen, with the exception of Terrence Stamp as the unforgettable Zod! When the technology was finally around to make a decent film, Singer screwed the pooch with it as he did with the X-Men films. The best scene from the whole film was the plane/space shuttle scene and even then that isn't half of what Supes is capable of doing! I only hope Snyder gets it right and give us what we've been waiting for for a long time!
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