EDITORIAL: Problems With THE DARK KNIGHT RISES And How I Feel They Can Be Improved Upon

EDITORIAL: Problems With THE DARK KNIGHT RISES And How I Feel They Can Be Improved Upon

I will analyze what the shortcomings were of Christopher Nolan's Epic Conclusion to the Dark Knight Legend, and offer ways they could have been improved for an even better ending to The Dark Knight Trilogy

Editorial Opinion
By VicSage - Jul 22, 2012 11:07 AM EST
Filed Under: Batman

From fan reactions to the numerous reviews online, it would appear that reception of The Dark Knight Rises is a sort of mixed bag. Many who enjoyed Batman Begins and The Dark Knight found The Dark Knight Rises underwhelming. Even I, a huge Batman fan, left the IMAX Theater after the Midnight showing underwhelmed. I recently went back twice to watch the film in regular format to give it another go. I enjoyed it more the second and third time. From the repeat viewings, I'd like to share with you what I believe would have elevated this film from "satisfying ending to a terrific trilogy" to "the best damn ending to an amazing trilogy".

THE ACTION





Firstly, the second Batman versus Bane fight should have been longer and more emotional. The first fight between the two was amazing. Great choreography, beautiful cinematography (thanks to Wally Pfister), and all manner of emotions and awesome wrapped into a flurry of fists. I would like to compare this encounter between Bane and Batman to another cinematic treat fans are aware of: Luke Skywalker versus Darth Vader in Empire Strikes Back. A beautiful fight sequence that satisfies and evokes plenty of emotions, and ultimately, leaves the hero wounded and defeated. The same scenario occurs in The Dark Knight Rises. Now, if we continue with this loose analogy, the re-match between Batman and Bane should have been similar to the fight between Vader and Luke in Return of the Jedi. Again, let me reiterate that The Dark Knight Rises' fight sequences do not have to be the same as Return of the Jedi's, but the Star Wars films serve as a nice foundation for comparison. Instead of focusing on spectacle, Return of the Jedi focused more on the emotional tension between Father and Son in their climactic fight at the end. The second Batman-Bane bout should have been longer for visual appeal, with Bane pulling at Batman's emotional strings before Batman goes "Luke Skywalker rage" on him and defeats him. This would have been PERFECT.


To follow up with this point, I should address the "Catwoman killing Bane" issue. I'm fine with Catwoman coming in last minute to blow Bane away with the Bat-Pod. But it would have been satisfying seeing Batman stand over Bane's dying body as the light left his teary eyes. A few solemn seconds for such a fantastic villain. Not the abrupt death that we were dealt.

I've read several reviews mention things being convenient. I see what they were saying. As far as I remember, twice do trucks and ramps allow motorcycles to do some X-GAMES type stunts. The first time this occurs is when Bane and his henchmen leave the Gotham Stock Exchange. The second time is when Batman is cornered by the police and needs to get away on his Bat-Pod. I'm positive Nolan could have easily removed one of these instances of coincidences and just given Batman an alternate route to get away. Having ramps create paths for motorcycles twice in the span of five minutes felt… gimmicky.

CHARACTERS


Most likely the trouble with having two potential love interests is that I wanted the Bruce-Selina dynamic to develop more. Bale and Hathaway's Batman-Catwoman relationship was great and didn't really need much working on. However, their Bruce-Selina relationship needed some help. Perhaps it suffered because he discovered Selina was a thief very early on, but I felt like Michael Keaton and Michelle Pfeiffer got the Bruce-Selina dynamic down in Batman Returns better. The way Keaton's Bruce is mesmerized by Pfeiffer's Selina is cute and funny. Had Christian Bale's Bruce Wayne found some time to spend an evening with Selina, like taking her to dinner or something, I might've been satisfied. Of course, there's no room in this movie for such a scene. To put it simply, they needed time to mature their relationship, and Bruce Wayne coming to visit her for a quick "Hi, Bye" isn't enough.


John Blake should have either been a beat cop turned detective or actually been called Richard "Dick" Grayson. I felt Nolan was going for shock and awe with the reveal that Blake's real name was Robin. It didn't add anything to the character except to say that he was, in a sense, "Robin". I found it to be a bit of a cheat. I believe Nolan's reason for naming him John Blake was to satisfy fans who would have been otherwise disappointed to find out the character didn't suit up. To avoid this, Nolan creates his own Robin character so as to save himself from criticism. However, I believe he would have been better off coming clean and saying Joseph Gordon-Levitt was portraying a different Dick Grayson and letting the fans deal with it. It's not like Dick Grayson wasn't a cop! Dick Grayson was a cop in Bludhaven in the comics.


Next, I'd like to discuss the character of Miranda Tate. This elusive love interest needed an extra scene or two to make that big reveal at the end a little more shocking and painful. I felt she needed some more time to earn Bruce Wayne's trust. Sure, he gave her Wayne Enterprises and the nuclear energy device. But that was out of desperation. Yes, he slept with her. But that's because he's a playboy. He needed to invest some serious time in her as a character replacement for Rachel Dawes. Perhaps he should have revealed his identity to her and showed her the Batcave. A relationship akin to Jezebel Jet would have been preferable.


Alfred should have been more prominent in Bruce's last journey. Michael Caine knocked his two scenes out the park though. Okay, maybe he had more like four scenes, but the two that people will remember the most are the ones where he brings audience members to tears. The first time is after Bruce's first night out as Batman in eight years, and Alfred tells him he doesn't want to be a part of Bruce's crusade anymore. The second tearjerker with Alfred is at the end where he cries before Thomas and Martha Wayne's graves about his failure to protect Bruce Wayne. If this was Michael Caine's last outing as Alfred, we at least needed one more scene.

Perhaps I'm accustomed to Gordon doing more in these films, but I felt he spent too much time in the hospital bed. In Batman Begins, he was extremely active. From helping Batman get Rachel out of Arkham, to clearing out the Narrows, to helping Batman stop the monorail by driving the Tumbler and firing cannons! In the Dark Knight, Gordon saved Batman, caught the Joker, evacuated people from hospitals, saved Coleman Reese's ass, and had a terrific emotional scene with Harvey Two Face in the end. In the Dark Knight Rises, he's bed-ridden the majority of the movie or is sitting on a couch watching television. Nolan and company try to make up for this in the last 30 minutes of the film, but even then, I found his involvement underwhelming. When he finds the bomb in the truck, he's stuck there the entire time! I wanted to see Gordon join the fight with his fellow policemen in the battle for the city. Would have been nice seeing Gordon in some hand to hand combat like in Frank Miller's Batman: Year One.


This film desperately needed some more Batman despite the awesome beginning of the film. I find it surprising that people called the beginning slow. I found it to be the best paced part of the film. Batman didn't show up until the 40 minute mark in Batman Begins and the 12 minute mark in The Dark Knight. With The Dark Knight Rises, it is expected that after eight years, we wouldn't see Batman until some time. Instead, Batman shows up in full force roughly 30 minutes into the film and stays around for quite a while. He chases after motorcycles, escapes a police chase, fights mercenaries with Catwoman twice, and confronts Bane. His lack of involvement in the middle of the film is understandable considering he's broken. However, his involvement at the end is just poor. This might have to do with that nuclear bomb about to go off in 5 minutes and him arriving mere hours before it goes off.


STORY ISSUES

Furthermore, people seem to have a problem with Bruce getting help in this film. I'm fine with Batman getting help from Alfred and Lucius. Never had a problem with it. I did have a problem with how he relied on Selina Kyle too much. It just never made sense. I understand he lost his money, lost his butler, and didn't even have keys to his own home. I get it. I don't get why he relied on someone he knew was a thief numerous times. I found him asking her for help with things that he could have handled himself. The first instance is when he confronts Catwoman on the roof after escaping Bane's mercenaries and wants a way to find Bane. Wouldn't Bruce have deduced that Bane was somewhere in the sewers? He's compiled enough information from Blake and Gordon to know he's underground in sewer system. He knew where Gordon was captured and he could have heard about the body of orphans washing up out of the sewage system. Not to mention when the police found the congressman, which took place relatively close to where Bane's hideout is. This is enough information for Batman to have tried to triangulate a location and go into the sewers to find Bane. If he needed Catwoman, it should have been for assistance in taking down Bane's army. To believe that Catwoman knows where Bane is doesn't make sense. She shouldn't know anything about the sewers. She's been working for John Daggett, not Bane.


To pile on to the list of complaints, we have no mention of the Joker. I understand it was out of respect for Ledger, but to not mention the Clown Prince who plunged Gotham into chaos and corrupted Harvey Dent is nonsensical storytelling. Joker was the catalyst for all the terrible things that occurred in the Dark Knight, and in The Dark Knight Rises, the repercussions of his actions are still being dealt with. Joker took Gotham's only symbols of hope and corrupted one and drove the other into exile. The Joker needed to be referenced once or twice.



Now, pertaining to the disaster that hit Gotham, I believe the most convenient reason for Nolan saying the bomb would go off in 3-5 months was to allow Bruce the more realistic time it would take for one to recover from a back injury. But I think this is one of those moments where we can actually suspend reality and let those "nonsensical, fantasy" elements of moviemaking come in. The time it took for the bomb to go off should have been reduced significantly to about 4 - 6 weeks. It truly didn't feel like Gotham was occupied for 3 months by an anarcho-communistic rule. I never believed 3 months passed by. Not for a second. Characters were still looking mighty good to have been disconnected from the outside world for 3 months. Yes, the citizens got supplies and rations, but making characters like Fox, Miranda, and others appear more ragged and less clean would have sold the rich versus poor theme. Showing characters like Selina Kyle, Holly Robinson, and former Blackgate prisoners living lavishly in the chaos while the rich fought for food would have been perfect to help show how effective Bane's plan was. Instead, Bane occupies Gotham for 3 months and citizens don't seem to be in that much despair. Even the cops who are underground don't look all that bad. They appear to have gotten plenty of food, rest, and most of them are still alive and healthy, despite not having seen daylight or eaten well for months.

Also, I found that the subplot about the orphanage could have been significantly reduced. Having Bruce Wayne give his home to orphans would have evoked the same emotional response whether we spent more or less time with the orphans. In this case, I'd say less of the orphans would have served the movie for the better. Blake's interaction with orphans in the beginning is okay. But when the orphans become prominent at the end by "spreading the word" of an evacuation, and being the only people Blake is trying to get off the island, I was sick of them. I understood from Blake's initial visit to the orphanage and his talk with Bruce Wayne about donating to the home, that his bond with the orphanage was strong. I didn't need to see him devote all his energies to them in the end. He should have tried to get them and many others off the island. Also, isn't it a bad idea sending orphans out to spread the word about an evacuation while a full-scale war is rages on in the city streets?

THE EXTRA
Last but certainly not least, I think it would have been great seeing Bruce work on the Bat in his Batcave. No mention of him fixing the auto-pilot. Just a short moment of him tooling away at it. Would have been a nice hint that he fixed it.


Well, that's it! That's my list of things I wish could have been fixed to make The Dark Knight Rises an even better film. Hope you had the time to read it all and I look forward to your comments below!

The Dark Knight Rises: 7.5 out of 10


Warner Bros. Pictures’ and Legendary Pictures’ "The Dark Knight Rises" is the epic conclusion to filmmaker Christopher Nolan’s Batman trilogy. The screenplay is written by Christopher Nolan and Jonathan Nolan, story by Christopher Nolan & David S. Goyer. The film is produced by Emma Thomas, Christopher Nolan and Charles Roven, who previously teamed on “Batman Begins” and the record-breaking blockbuster "The Dark Knight." The executive producers are Benjamin Melniker, Michael E. Uslan, Kevin De La Noy and Thomas Tull, with Jordan Goldberg serving as co-producer. The film is based upon characters appearing in comic books published by DC Comics. Batman was created by Bob Kane.


STARRING:

Christian Bale as Bruce Wayne/Batman
Michael Caine as Alfred
Gary Oldman as Commissioner Jim Gordon
Morgan Freeman as Lucius Fox
Tom Hardy as Bane
Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman
Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake
Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate
Josh Pence as Ra's Al Ghul
RELEASE DATE: July 20th, 2012
BANE And DEATHSTROKE Live-Action Movie In Development At DC Studios
Related:

BANE And DEATHSTROKE Live-Action Movie In Development At DC Studios

Hayden Christensen Responds To BATMAN Rumors And Explains Why Darth Vader Would Beat Thanos
Recommended For You:

Hayden Christensen Responds To BATMAN Rumors And Explains Why Darth Vader Would Beat Thanos

DISCLAIMER: ComicBookMovie.com is protected under the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) and... [MORE]

ComicBookMovie.com, and/or the user who contributed this post, may earn commissions or revenue through clicks or purchases made through any third-party links contained within the content above.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7
LFANCH
LFANCH - 7/22/2012, 12:35 PM
I agree with a lot of these. especially the lack of a joker mention. It was heavily implied at the end of tdk that he would return, and while i know that's not possible, a couple lines acknowledgeing his existence wouldn't hurt. especially when this movie tied up every thing else in the trilogy so well, then ignored the greatest secondary character in all 3 films.
VicSage
VicSage - 7/22/2012, 12:44 PM
Glad you agree! I wanted to list reasons that actually made sense. I'm not trying to start a war here at all. I figured all of these reasons were legitimate things fans could get behind and agree with me on. I found it astonishing they were able to make it through the whole film and NOT mention the Joker. Felt... weird.
ager
ager - 7/22/2012, 12:54 PM
This is excellent and right on the money. A beautiful layout and an easy read too. Check my perspective on Blake it the article directly above yours. It's more crude than this but serves my point well enough. Great job and I agree with every word
VicSage
VicSage - 7/22/2012, 12:57 PM
Yeah, I just check it out. Give the article a thumbs up so it can make the front page :)
VicSage
VicSage - 7/22/2012, 1:00 PM
@churchofcomics7: I agree. Harvey would have been better suited for that scene. I don't think Joker should have been the main villain in TDKR. I think Bane was on the money, but Joker would have had a prominent role for sure. But not as the main villain, I don't think. Scarecrow should have been one of Bane's lieutenants though.
VicSage
VicSage - 7/22/2012, 1:41 PM
@Firg: It was somewhat open-ended, yes. But I consider the film the end to this trilogy. I'm ready for the reboot in ten years. I've had enough Batman for now. He needs to rest.
TheRaven20
TheRaven20 - 7/22/2012, 1:47 PM
Very good and though I was able to see past many of these, they are valid points.
TheGhost
TheGhost - 7/22/2012, 2:22 PM
This article is too true. It does deserve to be on the front page! Great article Vic. Look forward to more in the future. I pretty much agree with all of your points. But the Catwoman Killing Bane thing never sat well with me. PERIOD. But the rest is spot on though
fizzle
fizzle - 7/22/2012, 4:28 PM
I would have to agree with all of that. It also would have been cool to see robin go in the bat cave as he did at the end, and a compartment rose up from under ground (like the one with batmans suit) with a newly formed up to date robin suit, and it just ended there lol. Atleast I would have liked to see it.
ager
ager - 7/22/2012, 4:53 PM
churchofcomics7@

I don't think your right about @face but that's pretty interesting and would be a nice nod to Phantasm
95
95 - 7/22/2012, 5:57 PM
Yeah. I would of liked for some of this to happen. Good stuff @VicSage.
VicSage
VicSage - 7/22/2012, 8:11 PM
@95: Thanks! I truly do appreciate the comment.
@SJL97: Please, comment! I started this to hear opinions, not shun them! I want to hear what the entire CBM community has to say. Just like the TDKR spoiler discussion, I want this to be a discussion for everyone too

Don't forget to THUMBS UP!
Blazes
Blazes - 7/22/2012, 8:11 PM
It got an 87% on rotten. That is not a mixed reaction. A mixed reaction is when a movie gets a 50% score. But seriously if this author is such a genius, how come he is writing about the batman film on cbm site and not directing a batman film. Seriously, I hate it when people say they should've done this or added that and then it would have been perfect. Actually without seeing the film, you would have never came up with those ideas at all. Anybody can look back at a film and Monday morning quarterback it.
Blazes
Blazes - 7/22/2012, 8:20 PM
The film was great, and I am more a marvel guy. The best parts were when batman first appears and the police chase him. Then of course the bane fight when he loses. And the end was great, even though I knew Tate was talia, I liked her backstory of her being in that prison. The ending was cool, I was actually sad at the end. But all in all, this has been a depressing weekend. This was supposed to be a big cbm weekend and long anticipated and now ruined by that psychopath.
VicSage
VicSage - 7/22/2012, 8:22 PM
@Blazes: Please, relax, my friend. Yes, 87% isn't mixed, but I have been hearing more negative things about this film than positive as of late. An 50% on Rotten Tomatoes is rotten last I checked. I think 60% is considered mixed on that site. Also, I'm not making a Batman film because while I am a HUGE Batman fan, I have no desire to. I WOULD however love to make a Question film trilogy, but that's for a later discussion. I am NOT bashing this film. At least, I hope it doesn't come off as that. I am merely citing what I considered to be major plot holes in the film. I was able to look over what Batman Begins and The Dark Knight had in the form of plot holes because the film was smooth in my eyes. But I found things wrong with The Dark Knight Rises that I couldn't look over. I'm sorry that you feel I'm trying to antagonize the site or be a "troll" but I tried to make the article fair and understanding. Again, I'm putting this on a CBM site because it's a CBM movie. And we're fans who liked/loved/hated this film. Least we can do is discuss it. No problem there.
VicSage
VicSage - 7/22/2012, 8:26 PM
@Blazes: I also gave the film a 7.5/10 which isn't all that bad. If it makes you understand where this is coming from, I LOVED Batman Begins and The Dark Knight (both 8.5/10 for me). Again, let's not kill one another because one has a differing opinion. There are many on this site who would simply say "the movie sucked" or "shit movie" but I went as far as to list reasons and tried to find ways they could have improved them while still keeping to the film and its story.

And I agree with you on the parts you mentioned about the beginning. They were great! I just felt the ending let me down. It was EPIC and GRAND but needed some time to marinate. It was moving too fast to really absorb how EPIC it was.
Blazes
Blazes - 7/22/2012, 8:33 PM
Just where are you getting this mixed reaction from? Avenger fans comments or because you didn't like it that much. I saw a poll on this site earlier where 65% thought it was excellent and 24% thought it was very good.
VicSage
VicSage - 7/22/2012, 8:38 PM
I was one of those 24$ who thought it was very good. The mixed reaction I'm getting is all these reviews comparing it to its predecessor and saying it doesn't meet it or etc. I don't know about you, but I expected TDKR to blow TDK out of the water. It's only expected, isn't it? Nolan has continued to dish out better movies. It was only a fan's dream that he'd give the conclusion to his trilogy the proper treatment. I just finished watching Batman Begins for the God knows what time on FX just now. The film takes its time. TDKR just felt rushed. Even at 165 minutes.

Again, the mixed reaction isn't TRULY a mixed bag. It simply falls short of what we all were expecting from Nolan.
Blazes
Blazes - 7/22/2012, 8:38 PM
I liked the movie and i bet you will appreciate it more with more viewings. That's what happened to me with the dark knight. I wasn't in love with that film the first time except for ledger's performance. But the more and more I have watched TDK, like this weekend on TNT, I finally realized how great that film is.
VicSage
VicSage - 7/22/2012, 8:45 PM
@Blazes: I've seen the movie three times already. Once in IMAX and twice in regular format. I watched it multiple times before writing the article. But I will say that when I watched The Dark Knight, I STILL remember my reaction. I stood up and yelled: "BEST [frick]ING BATMAN MOVIE EVER!!!" and gave it a standing ovation. When TDKR finished, I got a little teary eyed but I still didn't feel fulfilled. I felt empty yet sad.. Interesting. It was tearjerking.. but underwhelming.
webheaded
webheaded - 7/22/2012, 8:52 PM
I loved the film SO much. But this article, apart from some reaching nit picks, was true.
VicSage
VicSage - 7/22/2012, 9:00 PM
@TrueRedBlue: Could you please tell me what the nitpicks were? I have an idea which ones were though. Like my mentioning of the motorcycles and the ramps but... what else? I tried to go for basic things. Didn't want to reach into nitpicking territory.
CyclopsWasRight
CyclopsWasRight - 7/22/2012, 9:03 PM
I disagree with the John Blake scenario though, I thought it was neat when they gave off that tiny Robin reference, and I agree with LFANCH with the missing Joker link, I was like, what the [frick]!? Apart from that, I loved it!!
coalesce
coalesce - 7/22/2012, 9:03 PM
I haven't seen the movie yet, but this analysis was written so well and didn't dampen my wanting to see it in the least and that other editors who post on this site should take a few notes on how to write a cohesive, coherent article. Well written!!
CyclopsWasRight
CyclopsWasRight - 7/22/2012, 9:04 PM
Oh, and I hated Bane's death, I absolutely despised it, it shoulda been like what you said, like ROTJ in the climax fight.
dahamma
dahamma - 7/22/2012, 9:09 PM
Vicsage wow man you hit the nail right on the head for me! all i would add is that the 2nd batman vs bane fight shouldve showed batman totally dominating bane in the end and i hated how they killed off bane it was a cheap shot lol
dahamma
dahamma - 7/22/2012, 9:11 PM
still a great film but the things you mention did urk me on my very first viewing
VicSage
VicSage - 7/22/2012, 9:17 PM
Glad everyone liked it! THUMBS UP so it can go to main!!! And the film is still solid, just not as good as the last two IMO. Share the link! I want to see what more people think!
VicSage
VicSage - 7/22/2012, 9:25 PM
Thanks!
TheBatman938865
TheBatman938865 - 7/22/2012, 9:26 PM
every movie has faults...I'm not even gonna try to find ways to fix the movie...i liked the final product it was really good...plus i don't feel like reading all this...maybe later lol
Unas
Unas - 7/22/2012, 9:30 PM
When you think about it, most movie goers don't have a clue as to the real identity of ANY Robin. I think Nolan used Robin as Blake's true name because:
1. Dick Grayson would have been a DEAD giveaway and
2. The name Robin is universal, everyone knows the dynamic duo as Batman AND Robin.
It's a pretty smart tactic if you ask me. He got his point across to everyone without spoiling the reveal to true fans prematurely. Yes, it may piss off Batman purists, but it was done well. JGL was the most fluent character throughout the movie IMO.
Great write up Vic!
IIIAdamantiumIII
IIIAdamantiumIII - 7/22/2012, 9:32 PM
like every film you can pick apart and wish there was more ect...but its the way they made it. yes joker flash backs and maybe even a cleverly shot scene of him escaping would have been epic or even a newspaper about him dying in prison etc but thats fanfiction. joker died with the second chapter and was never spoken of again.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
View Recorder