UPDATED RESPONSE: Why Comic Book Fans Are Still a Subculture

 UPDATED RESPONSE: Why Comic Book Fans Are Still a Subculture

It's no secret that comic books and their various adaptations in the media are mainstream in today's world, but have the comic book fans entered the stream themselves?

Editorial Opinion
By TheNameIsBetty - Jun 10, 2013 06:06 AM EST
Filed Under: Other

In the last decade or so, we've seen some pretty monumental events in cinema history. The Avengers have assembled. Spider-Man has fought Green Goblin to the death, defeated his arch-nemesis Eddie Brock, and married the woman of his dreams. Adrian Veidt saved the world from itself; Ozymandias was right! Bane broke the bat, and soon Superman will be breaking the world free from General Zod's vengeful clutches. Even Star Trek had its moments: Lieutenant Commander Data made the ultimate sacrifice in Star Trek Nemesis, and J.J. Abrams ensured that the franchise would "live long and prosper".

Needless to say, it's been a pretty awesome decade...or so.





So what is the issue? If you didn't notice this article's icon, the logo for the recently released video game: "Injustice - God's Among Us", notice it now. It's integral to the point I am attempting to make here (note: I'm not going to bold the word, "Injustice" every time I use it, try to keep up.) Injustice, in a nutshell, could/would/should/is the titular DC Comics fighting game that everyone has waited for. It was created by the developers of arguably the best and one of the most famous fighting game franchises of all time: Mortal Kombat. While it bares some resemblance to its big brother franchise in terms of style, Injustice stands apart on its own. It features a huge roster of DC characters spanning the entire universe, including a couple surprises for die hard fans.

So far, Injustice features a roster with alternate costumes from the most popular story arcs of all time.  My personal favorite is the "red hood" costume for Joker.  To this date, Lobo, Batgirl, and Scorpion are the downloadable characters.  Zod is next.  Ed Boon recently revealed that a whole new slew of characters are on the way, by popular demand.



It is a no-holds-barred balls-to-the-wall fighting game featuring the biggest stars of the DC Universe. Despite it's success in the market, gamers across the interwebs cannot seem to stop their incessant complaining and bellyaching about the roster and other features in the game. You will see everything from, "there's too many Batman characters", to "Where is Martian Manhunter?! DAMMIT", and even a dash of "The story is weak" (despite being cowritten by DC, meaning it's an official DC storyline). I don't know about you, but that's some pretty harsh criticism coming from the mouths (keyboards?) of gamers who claim to or should be true fans of DC Comics or comic books in general.

Let's take a moment to analyze the world around us.

'Man of Steel' posters and merch are all around us. Tee shirts, action figures, posters, terribly cheap dolls baring a slight resemblance to Henry Cavill, are literally everywhere. You would think that it would be a comic-book fan's heyday. But...it's not. What have I seen? The fans aren't beating their way past unsuspecting customers to make it to the toy section. The weekly-release comic-book section in the local book store isn't completely empty. In fact, it's pretty well stocked, if not shuffled a little. The only soul in sight might be a lonely nerd, sitting on the floor reading some manga. Seems pretty normal to me. So riddle me this: if comic books and comic book movies are so popular now, why would so many people be so unhappy about the DC fighting game we've been dreaming of, and probably the only one we will get?



This morning, I read a reply to a comment I posted on a popular gaming website. This user in particular, claiming to be a hardcore DC Comics fan, claimed that my support of the Batman characters in Injustice was a sign that I myself must not read comic books or be a fan. He couldn't have been more wrong. If I'm not in that darn book store every week with a stack of new comic books that I'm going to buy and read at home, the good Lord can strike me down as I type this. How could our opinions be so radically different? The answer lies in the simplest of ideas: comic books and comic book movies are popular, but the real fans have not joined the party. The evidence is overwhelming: join any internet based community and take time to read the comments. Nobody who is a true fan would ever make claims like this. This type of attitude leaks into our own internet community as well. How often do you fight amongst yourselves, right here on CBM.com, about whether or not a movie is a good movie? Don't even get me started on movies like 'The Dark Knight Rises'. The amount of hate towards that movie makes me sick to my stomach. Nobody, not even myself, has any idea how much work goes into making a movie, not to mention developing a good enough story to please everybody. But let's not go there, let me bring the point home.



The way I see it, the same people that are complaining about things like "Superior Spider-Man", the fact that Injustice has a huge chunk of Batman characters, or anything of the sort are the reason why comic books and their adaptations will never be as mainstream as we like to think they are. I'll never forget the day that my father first saw the trailer for 'Man of Steel'. His exact quote was, "What, they're making another one?". My father is the ultimate example of the casual movie goer. He was surprised that another Superman movie was even being attempted, and he has no interest in seeing it. The message is pretty clear: the casual audience is holding us back, and we need to support the game developers, comic book writers, and film makers who are struggling to please us. Then we can show the whole world how awesome OUR world is, full of super heroes and dreams of a reality better than our own.




Note: I would like to add this is only my opinion. Any hateful or otherwise mean-spirited comments will not be tolerated. My point remains that we are shooting ourselves in the feet by tearing down everything we have a problem with. That being said, your opinion that 'The Dark Knight Rises' was a bad movie is perfectly understandable. Your arguments against something like that may even be stronger than most, but these are the end of days people [so to speak], and this is what we're going to get. Personally, the fact that we even have a big budget DC fighting game like Injustice - Gods Among Us makes it ten times better than the game might actually be.


UPDATED RESPONSE: So, after reading and arguing with some of you in the comments, I want to clarify some things. First off, I did not mean to offend anybody. Second, I need to apologize again because I am going to offend some of you again, probably. What I'm saying is basically this: if you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Plain and simple. If you waste all of your time buzzing around the internet like a little hate fly, talking about how much everything sucks, why even waste your time? Why would you log onto a website like this if all you do is talk about how much you hate everything?
I want to concede on my point a little, to show you I am honest. I have problems with movies too. Take 'The Dark Knight Rises' for instance. I think it was a phenomenal movie and I will always defend it and keep the poster up in my room that came with the trilogy pack. But on the other hand I also think that Nolan's attempt to honor Heath Ledger's memory, his last minute Robin toss-in, his blatant misuse of the Tali Al' Ghul mythos, and his popcorn-friendly demise of Bane to overall be a cheap shot in the nuts to all the Batman fans. Granted, the trilogy is wrapped up nicely and Tom Hardy shows again that he is a colossal badass. I mean, c'mon, he has kicked both Captain Picard's ass and Batman's ass (see 'Star Trek Nemesis'), that's worth something! But why in the world would he choose someone that looks so much like Heath Ledger, only to turn him into a barely-realized version of Robin as a half-assed nod to the fans? Why not include the obvious storyline where Talia becomes the mother of Damian Wayne, opening the door for Nightwing? Why Nolan WHY?!

See guys, I am not stupid. All I'm saying is if you want to be a real fan and be a part of the solution, you need to realize that true comic book fans are still a subculture because they don't join in with the masses. They're still with these series, and they still love their favorite superheroes on the big screen and in the video game realm. Don't get me wrong, there's been some terrible adaptations. Movies like 'Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance', and games like 'Batman Dark Tomorrow' can be banished to the underworld for all I care, and I'm sure all of you agree. But if you're anything less than neutral at this point, then you're not a fan. You're a hipster, a bandwagon jumper, here today and gone tomorrow.
The casual audience is holding these things back, not because they're casual, but because the "fans" are refilling the ranks of the casual audience every day with their harsh criticisms.
If you have a problem, go ahead and have your problem. Shout it from the rooftops, but remember that any real fan would be happy to just have a movie or a game based on the comics. Hell, I still think Topher Grace was an awesome Eddie Brock -- those wonderful fifteen minutes of Venom made the whole thing worth it.
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unknownfacts
unknownfacts - 6/10/2013, 8:27 AM
Good points I think it's the hardcore purist when it comes to the movies.They expect a certain amount of comic book detail in the movie,but when it doesn't happen they take to the net and blog about it.Which in turn is used by trolls to start flame wars thus causing much unneeded hate for a movie.

Batman has always be a touchy subject in the comic community.You got your Pro-Bats,Anti-Bats and Whatevers.Your Pro-Bat comes in two level passive and aggressive.Passive will only defend Batman re-actively.They know that his popularity influence any polls he participate in and will usally give a reason that he's winning.Which when meet with Anti-Bats resentment could lead into aggressive.

Pro-Bat Aggressive will actively defend Batman even when no clear reason is given.They will actively turn any blog into a Pro Batman rally.

Anti Bats passive will pretend to like the character for the sake of not being labeled anti-Batman.They re-actively hate on Batman usually joining in when an aggressive Anti-Bats starts something.

Anti-Bat aggressive genuinely hate a fictitious character cause they see nothing in the character they like and believe other should think the same about said character.

P.S. this applies to Pro/Anti any hero/villian it just Batman and his fans gets the worst of it.

Whatevers well that exatly as it sounds they're neither fore nor against a character seeing as they don't make any money from it and enjoy the work of comic books in general.
TheNameIsBetty
TheNameIsBetty - 6/10/2013, 8:36 AM
@SotoJuiceMan - These characters are not playable.
Killer Croc
Hugo Strange
Riddler

They are just in the background in the Asylum. C'mon man that's not fair
TheNameIsBetty
TheNameIsBetty - 6/10/2013, 8:36 AM
Plus, for the people complaining about Martian Manhunter, he's in the background in the Watchtower. So he's in the game, stop whining and asking for him. Is that your logic? Lol
LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 6/10/2013, 8:40 AM
First off let me explain the Manhunter part because while I feel you didn't mean me, I fit in to that. Never once have I complained about the length of the Batman roster in the game. I'm fine with Batman & Nightwing being in it because well I love both characters. I'm alright with Batgirl but I feel you just need those 3 in the Batheroes department. Now on to the Batfoes. Of course after the success of TDKRises in the public eye, Bane has new found popularity and respect so its best to include him. Also after the success of TDKRises, its best to include Catwoman. Of course you need Joker. No Joker is like no Lex for Superman or no Sinestro for GL. I'm cool with Harley.

It's all about capitalizing. Bane & Catwoman are now popular due to the success of TDKRises so its best to include them. Then we have the combo of Batman & Nightwing and Joker & Harley and honestly they go together. I'm fine with Batgirl. The game lacks female superheroes and I consider Barbara one of the best female superheroes DC has. Also with Barbs, she's a DLC character. You don't have to add her if you don't want too.

Now on to the Martian. Everybody knows I love J'onn. I was introduced to J'onn via the Justice League animated series and he is my third favorite DC character behind the Worlds Finest. I just feel J'onn is being treated badly at DC. He's not an original JL member, Cyborg's taking his place in everything. He's not getting respect and more people love and know him than Cyborg. I just want to play as one of my favorite characters. I mean I don't care for Red Hood or Power Girl, just give me J'onn.

SOTO

I don't mind Scorpian. If we can have Vader & Yoda in Soulcalbier, Freddy in Mortal Kombat and Snake & Sonic in Super Smash Bros, why not Scorpain in Injustice?
LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 6/10/2013, 8:44 AM
Christuffer

The thing is I want to play as J'onn not watch him in the background. That's like saying "we're going to let you in the Miami Heat locker room to see LeBron James but you can't go up to him and say hi or take pictures even though no one is by him."
TheNameIsBetty
TheNameIsBetty - 6/10/2013, 8:46 AM
@LEVITIKUZ - I don't care for Cyborg either. I share your feelings. Scorpion is awesome though, I honestly don't see the problem with him.

I'm not blind though. I totally see where people are coming from when they say the game has a lot of Bat characters. But let's get real, who doesn't want to play as these people? Haven't you always wanted to make these people fight each other? Remove the Gotham crew, and the DC Universe is noticeably dry. I didn't want to point anybody out, really I didn't. I want Martian Manhunter in there too, he kicks ass.

Actually to be completely frank, I want Rorschach. He's DC Universe, owned by Warner Bros. I also want Nolan trilogy skins for all applicable characters. But that's not gonna happen.

I just wanted to express my deep disappointment in the people who don't realize these are the golden ages and the good ol' days for these franchises. This isn't going to happen again. Love it for what it is. Remember what happened to Westerns, spaghetti Westerns? Yeah...
LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 6/10/2013, 8:53 AM
I do feel they should have had other Superman characters. Brainiac, Zod, Supergirl and others should be in it so its not just a lot of Batfamily. Also I think John Stewart should have been in it with Hal. There is artwork showing game designs for John. If you know me, when it comes to Green Lanterns I do feel we should make Hal the main one but also show off and introduce other Lanterns like John & Guy to show Hal isn't the only one.

Also a Flash villain should have made it.
unknownfacts
unknownfacts - 6/10/2013, 9:48 AM
Zod should be the next DLC since he was on the list of the season pass DLC character list.If the other one is true then Sub-Zero,Martian Manhunter,Powergirl and Redhood should be the next DLC's
MisterMagurlypse
MisterMagurlypse - 6/10/2013, 12:22 PM
I too own Injustice and almost have all the DLCs. I think it's a well rounded cast. Is there alot of Batman characters? Yes, but rightfully so. Batman, like it or not, has been the main man for WB/DC in the comics and flims. As well as games for that matter, ie Arkham games. So by all rights, these are the characters that most people are familar with. I know who Martian Manhunter is but more people know who Bane is, thanks to TDKR flim. Same goes with Black Canary, I know who she is but more people know who Harley is due to Arkham. Some of these characters, as far as story goes, could be replaced easily with more "fan favs" but they need to put in more reconizable characters to sell it.

Green Arrow is developing quite a following with the Arrow TV show so look forward to seeing him in everything, which is cool cause I like him. Point is, you gotta take the good with the bad and realize that they don't want just "fanboys" to buy this game, they want everyone to buy it.
QuinlanVos
QuinlanVos - 6/10/2013, 1:09 PM
Injustice is the shit! I play online with my three buddies we each have different main characters and go at it for hours because we love these characters so much it makes me feel like a kid again playing with my action figures.

It's Freaking Awesome!

@ Chrisstuffer-Nolan Skins would ROCK!
Darkknight2149
Darkknight2149 - 6/10/2013, 2:44 PM
I love comics. Especially DC Comics. I read All the New 52 #1 issues, all the zero issues and I plan on reading all the villains month issues coming this September. I will read anything DC except Dial H (because of that godawful zero issue). My two favorite DC series' are Wonder Woman (Brian Azzarello) and Batman (Scott Snyder). I watch every DC and Marvel movie (I read some Marvel, too. Huge Punisher fan) every year.

I once wrote an article on this site and someone, I forget who, commented that this site doesn't have enough comic readers, but a lot of comic movie watchers and I couldn't agree more.

As far as my opinions on Injustice Gods Among Us go, I thought it was a really good game. It was even as good as the Mortal Kombat remake (any Injustice fan should play it, by the way). I liked the story and I didn't even know DC wrote it, before reading this article. As for the "too many Batman characters" issue, I thought they could have put a little less Batman characters, and had a little more diversity. Every character I wanted in the game the most was put in there except Atrocitus and at least they had him in the background of Metropolis and had him in STAR labs. If they make a sequel, I'd like to see some New Gods as playable characters.
Volthoom
Volthoom - 6/10/2013, 3:35 PM
I am in High School and I read any comic i can get my hand on. Nothing is worse than hearing kids talk about Iron Man from the films and expect him to act like that in a comic. Kids nowadays think they know the characters through movies when they are entirely different. They don't get the respect they deserve from today's urban youth. That being said, I really am enjoying New 52, interesting take on the characters, I agree about Martian Manhunter, the back-ups in JLA aren't cutting it for me. Same with Shazam, i HOPE they give them both an ongoing title. We are the minority(comic book readers) and today no one really reads anything at all. Comics aren't going to be mainstream anytime soon due to the idiocy displayed by the urban youth.
LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 6/10/2013, 4:03 PM
Listen Soto, the level is Arkham Asylum. Of course your going to see Batman foes.
RLYHYPERGUY
RLYHYPERGUY - 6/10/2013, 5:25 PM
Dude, YES. I have a friend who says he hated Iron Man 3 and The Dark Knight Rises because they messed with the source material. I, personally, don't understand why this is such a huge complaint! The only reason I could think is that comic fans want movies to be exactly like the comics so that the casual audience can see the world that they love, but the way I see it, we should use the differences to show audiences the world we love.

Just imagine a conversation like this:
Casual Moviegoer: "I loved Iron Man 3. It was awesome!"
Comic Book Fan: "Yeah, it was pretty good. That's not the way Mandarin was in the comics, though."
CM: "Really? What was he like?"
CBF: *pulls out comic book* "Here, let me show you..."

That's the attitude we should have. And really, we should be thankful that there is so much comic book related media being released, not crap in the creators' hands. We can really be the worst kind of people.
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 6/10/2013, 5:53 PM
I actually caved and bought Injustice like a month ago.
Obviously Bat-biased.

I really don't like that Scorpion was forcibly added on through DLC - I really don't want him in my game, and I'm tired of getting raped by this Ghost Rider ninja who loves to say "get over here!" I never got into MK.

Lobo's enough of a pink elephant.

I'm hoping we'll get a Flash villain along with Cheetah, maybe Firestorm to pair with Killer Frost. I know it's only a matter of time before Martian Manhunter becomes playable, though I had wished it was sooner than later. Is Zod confirmed? Will that be available tomorrow? I guess that works to promote Man of Steel - I hope there's some good skins.
----

Fans are a subculture because they have very little ground with which to make any demands. You'll look at movies like Transformers, which gross more than roughly 90+ percent of any other blockbuster predating them. Even with inflation, it's a lot of money, and a LOT of people going to see it. You better believe the majority had no idea who Bumblebee was before 2007.

Stupid entertainment sells. Look at the Fast and the Furious movies. You don't need good actors, you don't need a good story or a cohesive plot, you just need style and commercial appeal. It's disgusting. But it also makes fans quite powerless to demand much of anything. That we continue to do so illustrates that we have an obsession, and our warped minds are having problems accepting the situation.

On the other side, comic books are cancelled left and right because of sales. Comic book STORES have had to close because interest isn't what it was - even with the CBMs popping out at a 2 per year average, watching a movie and getting invested in a comic book series are two very different things. Even still, these characters wouldn't have gotten where they are today had fans not bought their comics - and likely the movies wouldn't have been made had they thought there wasn't a demand to see them. That is why Superman the Movie, regardless of how dated it is, SHOULD always have your respect.
TheNameIsBetty
TheNameIsBetty - 6/11/2013, 7:30 AM
@SOTO That's not a fair list at all. There are four Batman locations. They all have multiple areas in the same stage. The Asylum has a daytime and nighttime version. Insurgency is based on Lex Luthor's underground lair. For Pete's sake dude, do you see what I mean? What kind of fan says things like that? Not a fan, that's what kind of fan.

@DrDoom I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't like Superior Spider-Man. Not in a "you suck" kind of way, but more of a "you poor thing" kind of way. Don't take that offensively. All I'm saying is if you can't see the potential for this kind of storyline, your ability to see depth or value in any kind of entertainment is scary shallow. I am enjoying both "Avenging" and "Superior" Spider-Man very much. The storylines and artwork is all very well done. The possibilities for this are endless. Just you watch -- they are testing who the real Spider-Man fans are. All the bandwagon jumpers left when Peter made his exit, but he is going to make a triumphant return, and the story arc is going to be mind-blowing. Just enjoy it and let Doc Ock take the reigns for now.


Case in point guys -- the current blockbusters and entertainment reflect what sells. Your opinions aren't wrong, but it IS wrong to cannibalize the industry based on your criticisms. Games aren't just put together willy-nilly. I'm sure a lot of time and decision making had to go down. Not one of you has complimented them on their obscure choices like Ares or Killer Frost. Hell I'd totally forgotten about either of them up to this point when the game was released. But SEE WHAT I MEAN!!!! They're not YOUR CHOICES, and therefore, THEY ARE WRONG. You're killing us guys!
TheNameIsBetty
TheNameIsBetty - 6/11/2013, 7:31 AM
*error correction - Wayne Manor has a daytime and nighttime version. The Asylum has a Joker and Regular version. Overall, that is still the same four locations
TheNameIsBetty
TheNameIsBetty - 6/12/2013, 5:39 AM
@Soto @fangz
I posted an updated response. Goes for everybody. Please try to understand where I'm coming from here.

And for the love of Odin, do you really have to use all caps in your response just to spite me and copy me? How childish of you
TheNameIsBetty
TheNameIsBetty - 6/14/2013, 1:27 AM
@SotoJuiceMan - Your jab at my usership being a privilege is completely unjustified. I been on this website every single day since 2008, commenting and posting articles and whatnot, you're hardly the authority on who's privileged to be on this site.

I think you may have gotten the point of my article a little twisted. I don't remember quoting you in my article, for one. For two I posted this as, admittedly, an angry response towards what I viewed as a destructive habit within our own community. I get the impression you see the article this way:

Chris_tuffer versus CBM and the World

I'm not doing that. It's more like this:

Chris_tuffer and CBM and all Comic book nerds everywhere verus Haters

Okay?! The reason that I am pointing out this is a sub-culture is because, obviously, all reviews posted on this site for 'Man of Steel' have been nothing but positive. Up to this point that is, I don't know after this. But have you seen the critics on Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic? The fans say "Yes, it's so awesome!" The casual audience has said, "Eww, it's dramatic and boring. Too much action. Why did Superman do that? All the charm is gone...whyyyyyy".

I FREAKING TOLD YOU SO. 'Man of Steel' is our ticket to a Justice League movie, literally. It needs to make a certain amount of money. I'm seeing 'Man of Steel' today, this afternoon, and I already know I'm going to love it. I trust the reviewers on this site, especially people like RorMachine and Josh Wilding (whom I've always agreed with). The movie is clearly awesome, I think that's safe to say, but it has been mostly lost on those who aren't comic book fans. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that! Okay, some people who ARE comic book fans are going to say it sucks. Good for them, their opinion counts too. I'm not discounting anyone's opinion. But frankly, that street goes both ways. If you're gonna get on my back for having an opinion, then my opinion counts too if you're going to tell me I'm hating on everyone's opinion. It's a catch-22 type of philosophy.

All I'm saying is when this time is past, and these movies are just old classics, it's not going to be fun to remember that some of them weren't perfect. I try to give credit where credit is due, that is why I defend TDKR and Spider-Man 3, and why I get sick of people bashing it even though they weren't the best of the best like their predecessors. My only intention was to point out how sad it is that even though comic books are popular, the real fans are still not.

And for the record, I'll say it again, half of the New 52 lineup is Batman, at least from what I've seen (my local bookstore only carries the "important" titles, no indies). That is a direct result of Nolan, and Batman's overall popularity. The market sees Batman as viable, and he dominates the game. Okay I admit it, I'm not saying he doesn't. I just don't give a crap because Batman is awesome.
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