STAR WARS Director Rian Johnson On How Reaction To THE LAST JEDI Mirrors THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Response

STAR WARS Director Rian Johnson On How Reaction To THE LAST JEDI Mirrors THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Response

Star Wars: The Last Jedi director Rian Johnson talks more about the response to his movie, and how it actually echoes the reaction to The Empire Strikes Back when it was originally released in theaters!

News
By JoshWilding - Sep 11, 2019 02:09 AM EST
Filed Under: Star Wars
Source: Uproxx
Rian Johnson is currently doing the rounds to promote his new movie Knives Out, but the subject of Star Wars inevitably keeps coming up. The filmmaker delivered one of the most divisive instalments in the franchise to date with The Last Jedi, and it was recently put to him that the response to that movie isn't all that different to how The Empire Strikes Back was originally received.

While Johnson was reluctant to talk too much about that, he acknowledged that he was among those who were disappointed by Empire when it was originally released. 

"Luke gets symbolically castrated by his father," Johnson said, reflecting on what it was like to watch that movie as a child. "It sticks. That's why that's the one that, even though at that time I had that reaction to it, it stuck in me and it resonated with me."
 
"I think that anything with a passionate following always has a passionate following, and Star Wars is that, even more so," he continued, explaining why he has nothing against those who didn't like The Last Jedi. "You can't be angry at one side of it when it's the reason the positive is so passionate, you know? It's all part of the same thing, and it always was like this basic thing."

"That's why I love it," the director concluded.

Johnson remains hard at work on a brand new trilogy of Star Wars movies, and while it's still very early days, it seems as if fans are going to have to get used to him being part of this Galaxy Far, Far Away.

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Nightwing1015
Nightwing1015 - 9/11/2019, 2:34 AM
You'd have thought Rian would've been happy. He's gone on record as saying he aims to make divisive films and would feel bad if one of his projects was universally liked. He got exactly what he wanted with TLJ.
Nebula
Nebula - 9/11/2019, 3:01 AM
@Nightwing1015 - He's also responsible for the most divisive episode of Breaking Bad: Fly. That was his first one. I think it might also be the lowest rated episode.
MDFPodcast
MDFPodcast - 9/11/2019, 3:13 PM
@Nebula - I thought 'Fly' was outstanding.
Canon108
Canon108 - 9/11/2019, 2:34 AM
He doesn't have a hot clue what he's talking about...audiences loved ESB when it came out. Audiences in a vocal majority hate TLJ, I can't wait to show my son the OT...but won't go out of my way to show him Rian Johnson's dumpster fire. TLJ is to Star Wars what KotCS was to Indy, the moment a franchise got driven into the ditch.
MDFPodcast
MDFPodcast - 9/11/2019, 3:14 PM
@Canon108 - *vocal minority
Canon108
Canon108 - 9/11/2019, 3:35 PM
@MDFPodcast - if over half the audience dislikes it, it's a majority. I was right in my initial post.
ThunderThighs
ThunderThighs - 9/11/2019, 2:37 AM
patmanqc
patmanqc - 9/11/2019, 2:39 AM
What an asshole
Nebula
Nebula - 9/11/2019, 3:10 AM
@OmegaDaGrodd - Yeah, look at those five reviews, most of which aren't even negative and more just speculating about the third installment. Much divisive! Because we all know that only ten people existed back in 1980!

If you seriously think they're negative and even slightly comparable to criticism of The Last Jedi then your judgement is just off.
Philvis
Philvis - 9/11/2019, 6:02 AM
@OmegaDaGrodd - Or perhaps if you were alive back then, you could remember how things actually were...that little boys and young adults were eating it up with a spoon. You know, the target audience. I was so envious of my older brother's Boba Fett shirt, and I can't tell you how many times I recreated the carbonite scene via a plastic soap dish, water, and a freezer.

Can't say the same about TLJ...My son fell asleep and wanted to get out of the theater ASAP.
boiling
boiling - 9/11/2019, 2:55 AM
This imbecile needs to shut the [frick] up finally. Even mentioning his abomination in the same sentence with ESB is blasphemy. Give him the pineapple treatment he deserves already. If only I could do this myself.
Nebula
Nebula - 9/11/2019, 2:59 AM
It wasn't mixed or near as divisive as The Last Jedi. The premise has only existed since December 2017. It's revisionism. And, even then, most of the negative reviews that people spout are just things like "Vader has to be lying!" or "I wanted Leia to end up with Luke" which aren't flaws with the movie.

Even then, of course people who didn't like the film would come to realise that it's good because it's near flawless. People who didn't like The Last Jedi aren't going to realise that though, are they? Because it's flaws are apparent and aren't going to vanish with age.

And colour me surprised that Rian originally hated the best film in the OT and loved the worst.
DEVWoulf
DEVWoulf - 9/11/2019, 3:02 AM
Yeah... but The Empire Strikes Back is one of the greatest films ever made. The Last Jedi is very, very far from that. The biggest difference is that time was very kind to Empire and time will be even worse for Jedi moving forward.

Damage control alert.
OmegaDaGrodd
OmegaDaGrodd - 9/11/2019, 3:15 AM
@Nebula

"If you seriously think they're negative and even slightly comparable to criticism of The Last Jedi then your judgement is just off."

The articles are meant to highlight that Empire was not seen at the time of release in nearly the same positive light that it is now, in addition to debunking a few other talking points.

I'm well aware that the people responding negatively to TLJ often times have much dumber complaints and far more inaccurate and just straight up wrong interpretations of the movie and how consistent it is with Star Wars overall
Nebula
Nebula - 9/11/2019, 3:23 AM
@OmegaDaGrodd - People were pleased with ESB. There's always a minority. In thirty years, people could pluck negative reviews out about Endgame but that doesn't mean that it was divisive when it released.

"I'm well aware that the people responding negatively to TLJ often times have much dumber complaints" Yeah, dude, sure.

"far more inaccurate and just straight up wrong interpretations of the movie" but muh subjective
OmegaDaGrodd
OmegaDaGrodd - 9/11/2019, 3:29 AM
@Nebula

"People were pleased with ESB. There's always a minority. In thirty years, people could pluck negative reviews out about Endgame but that doesn't mean that it was divisive when it released."

I know there's always a minority, I'm well aware that one exists for TLJ as well. And I know that you can always pluck a few negative reviews, even a movie as critically acclaimed as TLJ had a few
lawndart
lawndart - 9/11/2019, 3:45 AM
I try to keep an open mind and foster that same approach with my kids. Even with the new SW movies. I didn't like TFA much and TLJ was the first SW movie I simply hated. Even more than JarJar if that is even possible.

I presented the SW movies in the same order they were released so they would have that perspective of the films. They both love ESB as I do. I took my kids to see TLJ when they were 11 and 12, not discussing any of the issues being discussed online. They both asked me part way through the movie why TLJ movie was so bad. Kids get it. Rian Johnson remains clueless.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 9/11/2019, 3:50 AM
@Urkelbot

"But after Solo, we saw the negative domino effect Rian had on the franchise."

People sure love blaming Rian Johnson for Solo's failure, don't they?

It's almost like people forget that Solo is a movie that nobody wanted or asked for about a younger version of an iconic character that was recast with an unknown actor that people already decided they didn't like before even seeing the movie.

I just really don't understand this logic. Solo was made by completely different people with completely different actors and had nothing to do with the main Star Wars films directly. It's basically like saying that because a lot of people hated Thor The Dark World they stopped watching Marvel movies all together. Which obviously didn't happen.

And finally, the biggest flaw in this "domino effect" logic: If this were true then The Last Jedi and The Mandalorian should both flop as well, right? Because of Rian Johnson "ruining Star Wars", right? Yeah. We all know that isn't going to happen.
FinnishDude
FinnishDude - 9/11/2019, 3:51 AM
Not only was Empire divisive when it came out, but Jedi was considered a major improvement.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 9/11/2019, 3:54 AM
@Urkelbot

I mean, if you were visiting forums back when Solo was first announced you should remember the negative reactions to it. And that was back when everyone was still excited for TLJ, long before it even came out.

Solo was never going to do well because no one wanted it from the get-go. Everyone was hoping for a Kenobi film and we got that lol.
Nightwing1015
Nightwing1015 - 9/11/2019, 4:05 AM
@Nebula - Yeah Fly sucked. One of the most boring episodes of BB. It is the lowest rated episode on IMDB. People point to the second to last episode as proof Rian's a visionary. But apparently the directional instructions were super specific for that episode anyway. Nobody could've fricked that episode up.
Ha1frican
Ha1frican - 9/11/2019, 4:06 AM
Tbh he kinda comes across as a bit of arrogant here but hearing the things people have said about him and his film for the last year probably hasn’t been great for him. I personally really liked the movie aside from the casino side plot and anything to do with Rose. I’ve come to the realization that the thing Star Wars fans hate more than anything is Star Wars. It’s a franchise that is almost always deeply rooted in childhood nostalgia for multiple generations and people have the most intense rose colored glasses that nothing ever lives up to it bc it appeals to so many people on so many different levels that no matter what direction it’s taken in there’s a large group of people that go “That’s not my Star Wars!” it’s always either too much like the originals, not enough like the originals, it’s too much pulled from legends or it’s destroying all the good stuff from legends it’s a franchise that really doesn’t have a fan base bc it’s somehow accumulated fans for dozens of different movies and themes and in different eras that with the exception of 4 and 5 no one even really agrees on what it is or isn't. The only Star Wars things I’ve actively disliked were the Clone Wars movie and Campaign of Battlefront 2
Scarilian
Scarilian - 9/11/2019, 4:12 AM
He is responsible for destroying the brand name to the extent the merchandise is failing and what should be massive attractions like Galaxy's Edge are flopping, the new film has so little hype that the only discussion is how badly they are going to frick it up.

He should be remembered exactly the way he is, the destroyer of brands.

*Yes, TFA sucked also, but that still had potential. Rian destroyed all remaining potential and permanently damaged the Star Wars brand to the extent they are having to bring back the Emperor in the hopes people give a flip.
Ha1frican
Ha1frican - 9/11/2019, 4:13 AM
Also Solo’s performance had very little to do with TLJ and almost everything to do with its production issues, lack of marketing, and release date out of cycle. The first trailer was only months before and I remember asking everyone I knew about it before release and I was literally the only person I knew that was aware it was coming out. They trained the GA to expect a Star Wars in December for 3 years then practically stealth dropped a movie they couldn’t market bc it was reshot at the last minute 5 months after TLJ and then it was what I would describe as aggressively ok so it didn’t even get positive word of mouth to get people in theaters once people did know it was out
Philvis
Philvis - 9/11/2019, 6:19 AM
@Ha1frican - The marketing, or lack thereof, excuse is the most laughable of all the excuses for the failure of Solo. The biggest two factors in its poor performance was fallout from TLJ and the fact that people didn't want it. I don't know why that is so hard to accept. Harrison Ford IS Han Solo. Putting out a movie where you have some guy who is maybe 5-6 years younger than Harrison Ford when he did the original Star Wars, made absolutely no sense. Han is one of the most known characters in modern cinema, so saying people didn't go because of lack of marketing is just ludicrous. This isn’t 1985, there is a thing called the internet and social media. Han Solo stuff was all over the place. People just didn't want it, and you had a large contingent of people who were still not happy about TLJ and what it did to the franchise. I know several people who refuse to watch another SW film, and have been fans since the beginning. Say what you will about the Prequels, but it didn't kill the fan base.
DerekLake
DerekLake - 9/11/2019, 4:23 AM
That some people might also have disliked ESB doesn’t say anything about TLJ, which does different things with its story than ESB did. And I’m not even talking about the half-baked deconstruction of Luke; I’m just talking about Canto Bight, the Resistance and, most importantly, Rey’s stagnant character arc and lack of a real development arc here.
SpideyPuffsMJ
SpideyPuffsMJ - 9/11/2019, 5:14 AM
Yeah it's been said before. I just do NOT see them aging the same. I'm still somewhat in awe when I watch Empire/ This, looking back just struggles to keep my interest and I have little to no connection to any of these characters except maybe Kylo.
SpideyPuffsMJ
SpideyPuffsMJ - 9/11/2019, 5:25 AM
I'm excited to see Knives Out! The Last Jedi was not very good.
L0RDbuckethead
L0RDbuckethead - 9/11/2019, 4:00 PM
@SpideyPuffsMJ - Yeah the cast is actually pretty good. And the little we've seen of it makes it look like Rian will rebound from TLJ nicely.

Excited to see it as well.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 9/11/2019, 5:46 AM
@Urkelbot

1. When I say people weren't asking for a Solo film, I mean no one was saying they wanted one. For instance, fans have been dying for an Obi Wan Kenobi film or series for years now. In fact, after Rogue One it was announced that Boba Fett, Yoda, and Han Solo all had stand alone films in the works. Everyone was thrilled about Boba Fett, but Yoda and Solo not so much. It was during this time that tons of fans were wondering why no Kenobi film was in the works. To me, that's fans "asking" for a film.

2. Solo really didn't have anything to do with the main Star Wars films. Yes, it was a prequel of Han Solo. A prequel whose events have no bearing on anything aside from small things like how Han got the Falcon, for instance. It's only tied to the main films through very thin, uninteresting side stories that really aren't directly involved with events playing out in the main series.

3. I understand Solo is a huge part of all the films. But again, having to take such an iconic character played by an iconic actor that gave an iconic performance, it's very off-putting to a lot of people to recast that character with some unknown younger actor.

4. Yeah we will have to wait and see. But I'm pretty certain The Mandalorian will do very well and The Last Jedi will make over a billion again.
theFUZZ008
theFUZZ008 - 9/11/2019, 5:49 AM
TheUnworthyThor
TheUnworthyThor - 9/11/2019, 6:34 AM
It’s true. Most people lack perspective on just about everything. The response of fans to Empire was not this universally loved masterpiece that people think of it as now. It was divisive. There were fans that HATED the reveal that Darth Vader was Luke’s father. That it absolutely contradicts what everyone thought they knew from the first movie. Empire ended up making far less than Star Wars. Dropping 37%. The Last Jedi ended up dropping a very similar (but less) 34%. So yeah the responses were very similar. Even if there wasn’t social media to prove it to you. In 25 years we are sure to have a bunch of people whining about how the modern Star Wars movies suck and they don’t hold a candle to a classic like Last Jedi.
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