ARROW: Oliver Queen Returns To The Arrowcave In New Photos From Season 8, Episode 4: "Present Tense"

@Origame -
They had to stop using Deathstroke in Season 6 specifically because of the DCEU Deathstroke movie that was in development. Given that they are still beating around the bush and introducing other characters to fill the mantle, the chances of Slade Wilson making an appearing this season are very slim.

And just because they can say "Deathstroke" and introduce successors doesn't mean they can actually use him. Just ask Batman, who isn't going to make a proper appearance in a TV show anytime in the near future.

And the Superman thing means nothing. They already had Brandon Routh and Superman hasn't been embargoed since he was killed off in Batman v Superman (and the Justice League movie did him no favours). WB doesn't have as much faith in Superman as they did 10 years ago. Superman used to be seen by WB as a cash cow on the same level as Batman, which is no longer the case.

@Origame -
No we're not. We're getting plain clothes Bruce Wayne, and you can thank Gotham for opening the door for that.

@Origame -
I mean, if you want to believe that WB will allow the CW use Batman, you can. But I wouldn't recommend it.

The closest we'll get is a silhouette or a blurry 30-second flashback, just like in all the other shows. Even in the Gotham finale, they showed Batman for the one shot and that was it.

Kevin Conroy can also still be in a costume without it being Batman, considering that he's playing a future Bruce Wayne. With them using Kingdom Come Superman, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Kevin Conroy is wearing the same body cast he wore in Kingdom Come.

Another thing we have to dread is the CW turning Bruce Wayne into a jobber for Batwoman (like they did with Superman). Expect there to be a scene where Bruce tells Batwoman that she's a better hero than him in every way, or where Batwoman completely kicks his ass and fans try to defend it as him just being old.

@Origame -
First of all, the announcement made it clear that Kevin Conroy was cast as Bruce Wayne. Second, Batman is heavily embargoed by WB as far as the TV shows are concerned, which isn't going to change as long as he's their top cash cow (especially with a 2021 reboot on the way, and Joker being the most profitable R-rated film of all time).

A CGI suit could be any number of things. You're the one jumping to conclusions, not me. And if you want to play the "but they could use prosthetics!" game, why would they CGI a Batman costume when they already built one for the Batwoman show? You know, the one that they built for a blurry 15-second flashback that Ruby Rose ended up wearing?

Burt Ward returning and obligatory references also mean nothing. The CW brings back actors from other shows as "tributes" constantly. They also throw out fan servicy references constantly. That's nothing new and it certainly doesn't indicate that WB lifted their strict embargo towards Batman.

It's a very well known fact that WB is very anal when it comes to letting TV shows use Batman and the Joker. None of them are allowed to do so. If their DC Universe Exclusive Titans show and the Gotham series finale couldn't use Batman properly, there's no way in hell that the are going to let a CW crossover do so.

Batman is WB's cash cow and most protected character as far as the embargo and none of the TV shows can touch him. Everyone except you seems to be aware of this at this point. In the 2000s, it was the same with Superman (which didn't change until WB lost faith in the brand).

It's a well known fact that WB isn't going to let Batman appear in any TV show. You are definitely setting yourself up for disappointment by expecting Batman to appear on the CW. Kevin Conroy is playing Bruce Wayne, he was announced as Bruce Wayne, and he has only ever been teased as Bruce Wayne. Kevin Conroy being sized for a motion capture suit in a CGI-heavy crossover doesn't change that.

@Origame -
1. I've already addressed that multiple times. The embargo on Superman was lifted after his DCEU franchise tanked. Superman is no longer seen as a Batman-level cash cow for DC and his reboot made less money than Iron Man 3. Batman, on the other hand, is their top property.

2. No, WB has shown over and over that Batman is off-limits as far as the TV shows are concerned. Including recently. Even their DC Universe exclusive show had to cover him up with shadows. You claim that there are "overwhelming signs" that Batman is making an appearance, yet the only thing you have been able to point to is a green screen suit. CGI can be used for any of 1000 things that have nothing to do with a batsuit. He might not even have a costume at all, and might just be wearing motion capture for a space scene or something. You are completely reaching as far as this "Motion Capture = Batsuit" argument is concerned.

3. And now, you are spewing rumours. No one ever confirmed that Lynda Carter is playing Wonder Woman in Crisis (that's just a rumour). Likewise, Burt Ward probably is just playing a random retired vigilante or something. He's older than Kevin Conroy, and the CW does that literally all the time.

Batman isn't going to make a proper appearance in a TV show any time in the near future, let alone in a full FIGHT SCENE! I can guarantee you that, and it's not going to change as long as Batman is WB's crown jewel. You are setting yourself up for disappointment with this bloated expectation.

Kevin Conroy was announced to be playing Bruce Wayne (who the shows are allowed to use sparingly) and that's about it. So far, no one has done anything to indicate otherwise. CW can't use Batman if they desperately want to, and a motion capture suit can be used for any of a million different things.

You are going to need more than just that, and the usual easter eggs & returning actors, to support your highly unrealistic claim.

@Origame -
I have no evidence? LOL

@Origame -
Jesus Christ, let it go already. The only one spewing speculation is you. Your only argument is a motion capture suit (which could have a million different applications) and the CW's usual excessive fan service.

WB isn't going to let their prized character on TV, let alone on the CW. This especially goes after the success of the Joker movie and with a highly anticipated reboot on the way. The embargo is pretty common knowledge at this point, and you are one of the few fans not aware of it. Showrunners from Fox and the CW have mentioned it. Actors from Gotham have mentioned it. And it's the reason why they never got to use a fully formed Joker, because WB was scared of (in the words of Cameron Monaghan) "diluting the brand."

Your expectations are far fetched, unsubstantiated, and completely false. When Kevin Conroy only appears as Bruce Wayne or in some other costumed persona, you are going to be completely disappointed. If Batman appears at all, it will be for 30 seconds as a shadowy silhouette (as per usual).

*And by "no haircut", I mean he literally had no hair at all.

@Origame -
1. Batman only appeared in one frame.

2. No, there was no Joker in Gotham.

My examples have been consistent throughout. As I have said repeatedly, the embargo restricts Batman from any proper capacity. As far as TV is concerned, blurry flashbacks, a shadowy silhouette, or a single frame of him doing nothing are all we get.

Likewise, there was no Joker in Gotham. The closest we got was Jeremiah Valeska, a precursor to the character who either inspires/becomes the Joker sometime after the events of the show (which we'll never to get to see).

@Origame -
LOL, he did nothing but stand there for a single shot. And the only reason we got that is because it was the final episode of the series.

And you didn't read the full thing, did you? That wasn't a finalised Joker, it was a precursor character that may or may not become the Joker after the events of the show.

As Cameron Monaghan has explained, the green hair, purple suit, and the "Joker" persona are all off limits. The bat embargo is also common knowledge. Research. Do it.

"You never see a full transformation into the Joker, but you do see another transformation," Stephens says. "Jeremiah undergoes another evolution in his character to become another amalgam of Jeremiah and Jerome that I think audiences are gonna look at and say, 'If it's not the Joker then it's definitely an antecedent or a proto-Joker that lives there."

"I think when we first started talking about it, and we wanted to do what we were calling the Proto-Jokers, the idea was if we can’t do the Joker, maybe there’s a character who existed before him. A character that seeded those ideas, like in the subconscious of Gotham.

So what we started to do was to parse out all of the qualities of the Joker, and just dole them out, one by one, through various iterations of Cameron’s character."

""I feel like Cameron's character, in all the iterations of the characters that he played Jerome, Jeremiah, and the new character that no one has seen yet that he plays this season finale, if he's not The Joker, then he's someone who does provide the origin story for the person who you're going to see later on."

https://www.tvguide.com/news/gotham-jeremiah-joker-evolution/

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/gothams-next-joker-evolution-is-an-actual-nightmar/1100-6465237/

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a857069/gotham-cameron-monaghan-jerome-jeremiah-the-joker-name-ban/

@Origame -
1. Can't read? As I have said (over and over) from the beginning, Batman can't make a proper appearance on TV. At all. The best you're going to get is a blurry 30-second flashback, a shadowy silhouette, or a single frame of him standing frozen doing nothing. All of the TV shows are forced to beat around the bush. Stop playing mental gymnastics to try and "win" an argument.

2. You can headcanon whatever you want. It doesn't change the fact that there was no fully formed version of the Joker on that show, which spent its entire run trying to dance around the embargo with precursor/prototype characters.

@Darkknight2149 - only thing old is your argument. Are you really looking at that final shot and saying its obscured at all? Are you really telling me you don't see what they were going for with Jeremiah at the end? Fine, say its head canon. No doubt if crisis does put bruce in a robotic batsuit you'll somehow twist it to saying he isnt really batman.