BATMAN BEGINS Writer David S. Goyer Debunks A Big Ra's Ah Ghul Lazarus Pit Fan Theory

BATMAN BEGINS Writer David S. Goyer Debunks A Big Ra's Ah Ghul Lazarus Pit Fan Theory

For years, fans have wondered whether there was any meaning behind Ra's al Ghul closing his eyes moments before that train crashed in Batman Begins, but writer David S. Goyer has cleared things up...

News
By JoshWilding - Jul 27, 2020 04:07 AM EST
Filed Under: Batman Begins
Source: Collider

Released way back in 2005, Batman Begins is still talked about today, and while it wasn't the best instalment of Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy, it certainly served as a strong opening chapter. Taking a deep dive into Bruce Wayne's origin story, the Caped Crusader battled Ra's al Ghul and ultimately let him die when that train crashed at the end of the movie. 

That was divisive for many fans, but one theory that has persisted is that when the villain closed his eyes, he somehow knew he would ultimately survive by being resurrected via a Lazarus Pit. 

Well, Batman Begins writer David S. Goyer weighed in on that during an interview with Collider, and said: "I think you’re reading far too much into it. Certainly there was never any discussion that Chris or I had about that." He then explained that the approach they took to this version of Batman ultimately meant that utilising a Lazarus Pit just wouldn't fit in the world they created. 

"But if you think about it, it was a fairly realistic approach," he continued. "I think if you introduce something like the Lazarus Pit into that (I’m not saying you couldn’t tell a cool story with the Lazarus Pit; I think you could), I just don’t think that the Lazarus Pit would’ve gelled with that approach."

That does make sense, and if Ra's was going to return, it would have been in The Dark Knight Rises when Talia al Ghul teamed up with Bane to bring Batman and Gotham City to its knees. 

What are your thoughts on this fan theory?

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tmp3
tmp3 - 7/27/2020, 4:13 AM
I feel like they kind of did do their own take on the pit. The decoy Ra's dies in act 1 and then we discover the real Ra's was Ducard, so the idea of Ra's comes back to life.
Se4M4NSt4ine
Se4M4NSt4ine - 7/27/2020, 4:33 AM
@tmp3 - yeah I agree. I always saw the name of Ra’s Al Ghul more of a title and mantle in the Nolanverse. Almost metaphorically the same as Bruce and the Batman idea dynamic. A symbol can be everlasting, untouchable and incorruptible.

So I always felt like the “decoy” was indeed the leader of the League Of Shadows at the time, and Ducard was the next in line to adopt the Ra’s Al Ghul identity.
Origame
Origame - 7/27/2020, 4:38 AM
@tmp3 - and i like how that played into the themes of symbolism. How you can make yourself more than you are by becoming a symbol to the world, like how bruce became a supernatural creature in the form of batman, not by literally becoming a bat/man hybrid but by instilling fear in criminals and giving hope to the innocent.
99OPTIMISTPRIME
99OPTIMISTPRIME - 7/27/2020, 6:17 AM
@Se4M4NSt4ine -
"But, is Ra's Al Ghul immortal? Are his methods supernatural?" asked "Ducard." "Or cheap parlor tricks to conceal your true identity, Ra's," replies Bruce.

I don't think Nolan was intending the name to be a mantle that he inherited. I think Liam Neeson's character was always intended to be the founder of The League of Shadows, with the authority to recruit, train, and excommunicate. Never once in a submissive or secondary role to Ken Watanabe's character.
AbidNaga
AbidNaga - 7/27/2020, 6:24 AM
@tmp3 - Yeah, the immortality of Ra's was more so the title being passed down rather than a literal thing. Or at least that's how I've always assumed it was.
dracula
dracula - 7/27/2020, 4:23 AM
David Goyer, he used to be a big name in comic book movies, he did some good ones for Dc and marvel. Has had a few stinkers and dont see him much anymore
tmp3
tmp3 - 7/27/2020, 4:25 AM
@dracula - He wrote Terminator Dark Fate, lol
dracula
dracula - 7/27/2020, 4:42 AM
@tmp3 - like i said he has had some stinkers. He use to be the go to guy for comic book scripts
Darth258
Darth258 - 7/27/2020, 5:01 AM
@tmp3 - the Nick Fury movie with Hasselhoff too.
Doomsday8888
Doomsday8888 - 7/27/2020, 4:24 AM
The f*ck? How did they get this idea?

Just like Ra's said in the movies there are MANY forms of immortality.
If you're a Legend, then you are immortal.

If you build a Legacy, then you are immortal.
And that's exactly what they did.

Ra's al Ghul was like a Dalai Lama-type of title and that's how he was "Immortal".

And as a big ass Ra's al Ghul fan, i f*cking loved it. :3
Darkknight2149
Darkknight2149 - 7/27/2020, 1:18 PM
@Doomsday8888 -
Another reason this is a good idea is because, ever since it was revealed that the Lazarus Pit can resurrect people instead of just being a rejuvenating fountain of youth, it has been turned into a cheap "get out of jail free" plot device where any character can be resurrected at any given moment. The comics tried to install a counter-measure by saying "Well, the Lazarus Pit has an irreversible effect on someone's psyche, so the person you resurrect is not the same as they died," but even that has been brushed aside by writers.

Arrow Season 4 and several storylines from the comics highlight the type of cop-out bullsh*t I'm talking about. On several levels, leaving the Lazarus Pit out of the films was a smart move.
Origame
Origame - 5/27/2021, 5:09 AM
@Doomsday8888 - yeah. The way I always saw this approach is the comic stories are sort of the legends of this world, but then we see the reality of it all. For example, I could see people in this world believe that ras resurrects in a magical pool called the Lazarus pit, and batman used it to recover and return to save the city, but in reality ras is just some guy who's good at deception and the pit is just a prison Bruce was in and recovered his wounds at.

You can use this for basically any villain introduced here and it works. Like how people would probably view bane as being much more physically imposing than he really is, how the joker was accidentally created by batman in a chemical accident, or even stuff that only happened in Gotham knight (maybe killer croc was just a drugged out homeless guy in reality, but the legend made him an inhuman monster).
Odin
Odin - 7/27/2020, 4:26 AM
1) Nolan's take on Batman mythos was meant to be as realistic as possible. There was no superpowers nor magical healing fountains in this incarnation.

2) The prison pit in TDKR, where Bane sends Bruce to, was meant to be Nolan's lazarus pit. Just in metaphorical sense. You go in there after your being defeated. You either rise from it healed and stronger or it breaks you mentally. That is pretty much the wide description of the lazarus pit from the comics too.
WakandanQueen
WakandanQueen - 7/27/2020, 4:26 AM
This man went from Blade and The Dark Knight trilogy to Man of Steel and BvS
Fares
Fares - 7/27/2020, 4:28 AM
"It wasn't the best installment of Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy" - Joshua, The Brave and The Bold.
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