Is Star Wars Dead? An Answer.

Is Star Wars Dead?  An Answer.

In response to VicSage's article, I wanted to post my thoughts, but I found that I had too much to say to squeeze into one post. I don't mean to undermine Vic's article, so please read his before checking this out. :)

Editorial Opinion
By CorndogBurglar - May 05, 2010 05:05 PM EST
Filed Under: Sci-Fi



I agree with a lot of what VicSage, and DarthBryan are saying, but there comes a time when you can't just "accept" things any longer. I'm not even talking about the new trilogy, I'm willing to accept that (even if they weren't fantastic movies in themselves, they didn't do anything to particularly ruin the events of the original trilogy). I'm talking about The Force Unleashed.

If there is ANYTHING since the original trilogy that has destroyed what Star Wars is, its that story. I'll explain why.

Before i get into it, let me just say that the story of Force Unleashed IS canon. Before it came out, Lucas gave his approval that it would now be a part of the Star Wars canon, and is now a legitimate chapter in the Star Wars universe.

Now, my problem with it. think back to Return of the Jedi, when Vader finally returns to the light side, and saves Luke's life by killing Palpatine. In that instant, he finally fulfilled his destiny, he brought balance to the force. He proved that he IS the chosen one. It was such a powerful scene because, up until that moment, Vader was always seen as a brutal, heartless killer. It showed that even someone as "evil" as Vader, could be redeemed under the right circumstances.

Force Unleashed crapped all over that. For those not familiar, Force Unleashed showed us that:

1) The Emperor created the Rebellion. He did this so that he could get his enemies, his worse threats, together, so that he could destroy them all at once. how stupid is that?? Obviously, that plan backfired, and his greatest enemies ended up growing from insignificant nobodies, into a force to be reckoned with, and eventually caused the downfall of the Empire. So, the Rebellion was created by the Emperor. *face palm*

2) Vader had a secret apprentice: Starkiller. Though Starkiller is a VERY cool character, that gets thrown out the window when you find out WHY Vader had an apprentice. The reason was for Starkiller to kill the Emperor and overthrow the Empire. You see, Vader hated the Emperor for the death of Padme. That's all well and good, except now, instead of Vader being evil like he was in the original trilogy, we now find out that he was NEVER truly evil, and that all along he's been waiting for his time to kill the Emperor. This totally negates the entire point of the end of Return of the Jedi (which, in turn, is the most important part of the entire original trilogy). Vader might wear a helmet that completely covers his face, but when the Emperor is killing Luke, you can still see the emotional conflict that Vader is going through when he's trying to decide if he should save Luke or help the Emperor. If he hated the Emperor, like Force Unleashed shows us, then there would BE no conflict. Force Unleashed showed us a bigger change in the core of what makes a character tick since Greedo firing first. This single story ruined the character of Darth Vader. One of the best villains of all time. Such a shame.

So, as you can see, some things are unforgivable. Having said all that, I will always be a Star Wars fan, but I'll just choose for myself what to accept as canon, because the Force Unleashed is a perfect example of how new ideas can completely ruin old ones. (it was still a fun game though, lol)

So in answer to Vic's question, I don't think Star Wars will ever truly be dead. But I DO think its one of the few franchises out there that allows the fans to pick and choose what to acknowledge as canon. Its unique way of telling individual, interlocking stories, all told at different points in time, allow us to accept what we want. Don't like the new trilogy? Forget it happened. Only pay attention to the original trilogy. Don't like Force Unleashed? Forget it happened, it has no bearing over how good the original trilogy is on its own. For that reason alone, I think Star Wars will always be alive and kicking.

Thanks for reading all this guys (if you did), I would like to hear your opinions on my (long) thoughts :)
Jim Carrey To Star In Live-Action THE JETSONS Movie From Director Colin Trevorrow
Related:

Jim Carrey To Star In Live-Action THE JETSONS Movie From Director Colin Trevorrow

RUMOR: AVENGERS: SECRET WARS Will Be An Even Bigger Movie Than We Expected - SPOILERS
Recommended For You:

RUMOR: AVENGERS: SECRET WARS Will Be An Even Bigger Movie Than We Expected - SPOILERS

DISCLAIMER: As a user generated site and platform, ComicBookMovie.com is protected under the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) and "Safe Harbor" provisions.

This post was submitted by a user who has agreed to our Terms of Service and Community Guidelines. ComicBookMovie.com will disable users who knowingly commit plagiarism, piracy, trademark or copyright infringement. Please CONTACT US for expeditious removal of copyrighted/trademarked content. CLICK HERE to learn more about our copyright and trademark policies.

Note that ComicBookMovie.com, and/or the user who contributed this post, may earn commissions or revenue through clicks or purchases made through any third-party links contained within the content above.

1 2
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/5/2010, 6:12 PM
oh, Force Unleashed is a video game that came out a few years back. they made a comic version of it too. its one of the very few things outside of movies, that Lucas was willing to accept as canon :)
soperman
soperman - 5/5/2010, 6:13 PM
@tea its a star wars video game and its actually pretty awesome, its relatively new aswell
soperman
soperman - 5/5/2010, 6:14 PM
goddamit CDB you beat me to it. :P
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/5/2010, 6:15 PM
@ soperman

heh heh, gotta be handy with the steel, if ya know what i mean...earn your keep. :)
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/5/2010, 6:15 PM
also, i meant to post this in editorials, i've already edited it to be in editorials, so i hope it pops up there soon :)
soperman
soperman - 5/5/2010, 6:19 PM
@CDB i am trying but it gets harder every time :P
by the way, pretty good article.
did lucas not accept the new books that are set after ROTJ, the legacy of the force ect.? I thought he did, well anyway he should because they are fcuking awesome.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/5/2010, 6:40 PM
@ soperman

you know man, there are so many expanded universe novels out there, and i've read exactly none of them. I've always been meaning to, bucause from what i understand, its good shit.

I don't know what's considered canon as far as post ROTJ stuff. but i DO know that a lot of the pre-ROTJ stuff is not canon...like most of it. thats not to say its all BS, because there a LOT of good stories, and they ALWAYS fit perfectly in the storyline. but Lucas hasn't officially made a lot of it canon.

so you're probably right, and i'll look into those. i heard the books where Luke dabbles with the dark side are fairly bad ass, too!
superbatspiderman
superbatspiderman - 5/5/2010, 7:02 PM
Why do you hate Force Unleashed it is one of my favorite games and I liked how they told how the Rebellion got together and the story is so great how the emperor created his enemy which would end up destroying him. This doesn't mess up the Star Wars canon at all.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/5/2010, 7:07 PM
@superbats

i loved the game. its very fun. but the story is terrible. i explained in the article why i didn't like the story.

i get the irony in the fact that he created his own enemy. but thats just a stupid move on the Emperor's part. he has a few weak enemies, so what does he do?? he secretly has them gather and meet to form an army. that was HIS idea. HIS doing. how does that make sense??
DogsOfWar
DogsOfWar - 5/5/2010, 10:23 PM
Nice article CDB. Was not familiar with Force Unleashed so I've learned something new today.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/6/2010, 5:09 AM
@ dogs

thanks man :)

there's a graphic novel of it, so if you're not into video games, you can still get the story...IF you wanted to read it for yourself that is.
Scarface
Scarface - 5/6/2010, 6:07 AM
Good article @Dogs

I,m a star wars fan boys since the first time I saw it about 32 years ago, had all the toys I even had that empty kenner case that they didn't have the action figures for yet to be releaed after christmas LOL.
I still had fun with the empty case.

I,m a original trilogy purist, and I take everything else as just being fun with no real conection to the original trilogy.

I have not played Force Unleashed yet. I guess I should by it soon, and yeah I,m no rocket scientist but I would never in a million years gather my enemies in one location so I could kill them all at once.
That just drops the Palpatine down a few notches on the clever scale. He was smart enough to get the senate to allow the use of the clone army which he and others had secretly created for his own secret agenda ,very clever.
To creating an army of rebels to oppose him, instead of hiring some of the many bounty hunters in the star wars universe.
I wonder why they lost, I just explained this to my 6 year old son and even he thinks it was a bad idea LOL
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/6/2010, 6:26 AM
@ scarface

right, its stupid on so many levels. wanting to kill his enemies all at once is one thing, but he gathered them under the guise of creating a Rebellion. these people didn't come up with the idea of a Rebellion, the Emperor did. thats just ridiculous.

and you make a good point, the Empire has shown that they have no problems wit hiring bounty hunters to do their dirty work, why would they not have done this?
Shaman
Shaman - 5/6/2010, 7:29 AM
WHAT?!?!?!?! Palpatine is the Emperor?!?!?!? WTF!!!!! Hello spoiler alert!!! J/K ;P LMFAO

Hmmmmm... this is an interesting "back & forth" we have here. Great article, CDB & VicSage! Now, i've always been a casual fan of the movies but haven't seen shit about the rest of the stuff. I did watch a few old clone war shorts but they got irritating how in every damn short chapter they'd waste half of it to show what happened in the previous one... every... [frick]ing... time!!! "Unleashed" looked awesome but haven't played it yet. I do have my own thoughts now that i know what its about.

Personally, i think the Emperor's idea was brilliant. Its probably why he was building the death star to begin with. Think about this for a minute. Its not idiotic of him to create the rebellion IF he had a multitude of moles as part of it. He could have controled the rebellion's every move like a puppet master, leading them to their ultimate demise by activating the death star and destroying their home base while they all attended a briefing of sorts. He just wanted all his rotten apples in one basket so he could thrash'em all before conquering the whole universe. He wasn't an idiot for having thought of that idea, he was an idiot for having done a sloppy job of executing his plan. He would have had succeeded had he not underestimated Vader and taken him for granted. That in itself is monumentally brilliant and original.

HOWEVER... here's where i have to agree with CDB to an extent with a possibility of a counter argument that is gonna seem like the longest stretch ever. I agree that the end of ROTJ was the most epic scene of the series and him hating the emperor all this time [frick]s it all up to an extent. But even in doing these actions because Palpatine killed Padme, my guess is that he didn't succeed at the end of "Unleashed" or else, the whole original trilogy wouldn't have taken place, right? Could it be that after Vader's failed attempts, he "relinquished" the little good he had left to fully give himself to the dark side, losing all hope??? That is until, his very son reminded him of who he was. When Vader talks to Luke in ROTJ after capturing him, he does sound like someone that had lost everything. And IMO, it included his hope, salvation and soul. You could see that he wasn't fully evil but had actually given up "good". I think that explains it pretty well and actually still makes it great storywise. Thoughts?
Scarface
Scarface - 5/6/2010, 8:12 AM
I,m sorry Shaman I,ve gotta disagree with you on the creation of the rebelion being a good idea.

If he had the death star he could just pick off planets one by one of his suspected enemies. Thus showing the entire galaxy just how destrutive his new toy was.

If he had the moles as you suggest and your probably right he would know everything about them, send the clones in wipe em out one by one.

I just don,t get putting all your enemies in a group.
It's daring them to beat you after you just gave them the info to do it.
Scarface
Scarface - 5/6/2010, 8:17 AM
I guess we will all have to agree that there is just to many different scenarios that could have played out throughout this arc.
I just don,t like the idea of basically the emperor is the one responsible for everything
the creation of the clone army
getting the senate to use the clone army
the creation of the rebel alliance
kinda takes away the good vs evil feeling.
In the end it was the emperors own mistake
Wadey09
Wadey09 - 5/6/2010, 8:50 AM
here's how i see it:
Palpatine is a Sith. Vader is his Sith Apprentice. now i own over one hundred Star Wars Expanded Universe novels and must say that it is entirely logical that Vader HATES Palpatine.
to help with this, i suggest that you read Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter. it is one of my all time favorite Star Wars books. you learn how vicious Palpatine can be when he trains someone. you probably already know how the Sith Legacy survives: The apprentice kills the master.
another reference is Darth Bane: Path of Destruction. this book was the origin of the modern Sith.
imo Vader plotting to kill Palpatine marks the making of a TRUE Sith which makes Vader all the more cruel and brutal.
and i believe that at the point of Return of the Jedi, Vader hadn't yet learned all he could from his Sith Master and needed to know how to conquer death. which is why he is so torn between saving his son and killing his master.

you all make excellent points and hope that you take mine into consideration.
great article btw @CDB!
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/6/2010, 8:58 AM
@ shaman

i get WHY the Emperor would want them all in one place. but there are other ways to get them to meet without having them create a Rebellion to challenge him. also, if Palpatine was building the Death Star, which he was, then why would he need to group them all together? he could just wipe out their planets one at a time. he's definately evil enough to do that, and you would think that if he was killing them one at a time, then there would be NO CHANCE of anyone challenging him. i just think it was kind of a dumb thing to do.

also, Vader was evil. you don't kill as many people as Vader did in the original trilogy without being evil. he killed people just for looking at him wrong, lol. he was portrayed as evil. Force Unleashed kind of throws a monkey wrench in that, y'know? it makes him out to be more of a good guy, and he just isn't. and my point in the article, is that with all that hate he supposedly has for Palpatine, he would have just jumped at the chance to kill him and save Luke. but he was having a serious moral dilemma. and that just doesn't fit when you consider what his "true" motivations were (as revealed in Force Unleashed, of course).

CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/6/2010, 9:03 AM
@ wadey

you know man, i did think of that. BUT, the motivations of Vader were NOT to take the Emperor's place as sith lord. he just wanted revenge for the death of Padme. yes, revenge is a Sith trait, but Vader wanted revenge in the name of love. which is the furthest thing from a Sith trait. He killed Palpatine and then rejoined the Light Side before he died. So that kind of makes the idea of him doing it in the name of the Sith kind of wrong. he killed Palpatine to save his son. he redeemed himself. not so he could take control of the Sith, y'know? but hey, maybe you're right. I don't claim to be a SW expert :)

good point though! also, if you don't mind, could you recommend some of the better expanded universe novels?? i want to get into them, but i just don't know where to start. I'll check out the Darth Maul/Bane ones that you mentioned. do you know of any post-ROTJ stuff thats good? thats what i'm really interested in.

thanks :)
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/6/2010, 9:07 AM
i will say that i would really like for them to get away from this whole timeline, and go back 1000's of years to the Knights of the Old Republic days. i would love a trilogy of movies in that time, done in like a Star Trek reboot kind of way!

it could be done in a way that doesn't make it a reboot, because its so far back, that it would hold no bearing over the events of the new and original trilogies.
Wadey09
Wadey09 - 5/6/2010, 9:34 AM
if you just want to start reading the books, just start from square one:
the Darth Bane novels. most of the books have a timeline that keeps most of the books in order.
but as for recommendations.......
the Republic Commando series is AWESOME. i almost teared up when i read Order 66. the series was THAT good. it is also one of the few series that i would recommend from the Prequels.
The Bounty Hunter Wars Trilogy is a good look at the average day of Boba Fett. this takes place after ROTJ.
The Thrawn Trilogy though is the GREATEST set of books in the Expanded Universe. if they were to make a VII, VIII, and IX i would want it to be on these three books!
they are EPIC.
The Jedi Academy Trilogy is also pretty decent. it shows Luke rebuilding the Jedi Order with a new set of students. and is one of the few books that has a weapon more devastating than the Death Star.
I, Jedi is a novel about X-wing pilot turned Jedi Corran Horn. he learns about his grandfather Halcyon who used to be a Jedi but died i believe during the Great Purge.
and for the most epic (and longest) Star Wars series to date: The New Jedi Order. this series contains the tale of how a new species from another galaxy came to almost conquering the ENTIRE Star Wars galaxy.

unfortunatley, if you were to read any of this without a certain order, you would not understand right away what was going on without the aid of a guide.
but i hope that you enjoy reading these works that expand upon an already enriched universe!
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/6/2010, 9:41 AM
@ wadey

oh yeah@ Thrawn, i used to play Star Wars: Tie Fighter on my PC WAY back in the day, and he was the Vice Admiral that you fought for. Do you know the name of that series?? i would love to read that. or is it just called the Thraw Trilogy? thanks for all the info man! i'll look around online for a good place to start in the timeline :)
Shaman
Shaman - 5/6/2010, 10:08 AM
Great points guys! BUT... this is a moon we're talking about. A moon... in a whole universe... with the rebellion scathered all over it. The Emperor would only have one shot at this, and that would be to bring everyone in the same basket. Had he taken out ONE planet at a time, the rebellion would have attacked him "kamikaze style" for the salvation of the universe before he got the chance to power up, postition itself and shoot a second shot. It would have been impossible. His plot was VERY logical but foolishly executed. IMO, everybody makes mistakes but the mistake was definitelly not "the plan". It was taking Vader for granted. Had Vader been the puppet Palpatine thought he was, he would have destroyed Luke and the rebellion in ROTJ. Then Vader would have pulled a "sith graduation day" on ol' Palp and risen to rule the Empire.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/6/2010, 10:27 AM
@ shaman

"Had he taken out ONE planet at a time, the rebellion would have attacked him"

but the rebellion wouldn't have been created yet. thats my point. what i'm saying is, if the emperor would have taken out the founding fathers of the Rebellion, BEFORE the Rebellion got made (becaue remember, Palpatine is the one that had them create it), then it would have been game over. remember, it wasn't the founding father's idea to make the Rebellion, it was Palpatine's. so instead of killing them all one at a time, he groups them all together and has them creat the Rebellion. THAT is why i don't think it makes sense. He grouped them all together in order to create the Rebellion, when all he had to do was kill them off one at a time.
Wadey09
Wadey09 - 5/6/2010, 10:54 AM
but isn't it true that if Palps didn't create the Rebellion, they would have formed anyway?
he was already abusing his powers wayyyyyyy before the Galactic Civil War.
he was dissolving the Senate and leaving ruthless governors like Tarkin in their place. executing naysayers and the outspoken based off of trumped up falsified charges.
most every citizen knew it but couldn't and didn't want to prove it. they were living in fear of Palps' stormtroopers and assassins.
but then came along Bail Organa and Mon Mothma. these two were the William Wallaces of their time. they amassed an army that could challenge the Empire. it was their passion that started the Rebellion as much as it was Palpatine's machinations.
if the Emperor had killed off these two charismatic leaders, the Rebellion would still have happened. it may have taken a little longer than anticipated but you cannot change destiny. history has shown that evil men may prosper for a while, but eventually they will fall.
except Castro. i believe that dude will never die!
;p
Shaman
Shaman - 5/6/2010, 11:02 AM
CDB- I now better understand what you mean but i think Wadey put the finger on it. I'm sure Palpatine knew that there was no way that he would be free of doing what he wanted had he only anihilated the founding fathers prior. They would have been replaced easily. It's the same argument for John Connor being born to be "the" savior of humanity when he actually isn't. He's only THE savior because he fell into it. Had he been anihilated, someone else would have fallen into it aswell. But by anihilating THE WHOLE rebellion in one shot, they would have become the rulers of the universe. And that until a new rebellion would be created only this time, not as easily or conveniently. Plus, had he succeeded the first time, what would have stopped him from creating and anihilating the next rebellion and so on and so forth to remain the ruler of the universe till the end of time. I just think its brilliant.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/6/2010, 11:04 AM
@ wadey

thats a good point too. there's always the chance that they still would have formed eventually. but why, as an evil dictator, would you ever want to MAKE them form?
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/6/2010, 11:41 AM
@ wadey

well, that actually makes a lot of sense, wadey. all force users have a certain degree of foresight. i can see what you mean now, for sure. if you don't mind me asking, how old are you??

also, are there any novels about the Jedi being hunted? i always thought that was one of the most interesting times, but i've never really seen much about it.
Wadey09
Wadey09 - 5/6/2010, 11:53 AM
@CDB
i don't mind at all. i'm 18 and i wish i could claim unemployment but seeing how i have never been "employed" as it were, i just say that i have no job experience. might i ask how old you are?

and yes there are a slew of novels like that.
there is the Coruscant Nights Trilogy, Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader (which is a direct sequel to Episode III btw), and Imperial Commando: 501st.
501st is the sequel to Republic Commando so you might wanna read RC first.
Wadey09
Wadey09 - 5/6/2010, 11:55 AM
i also forgot about The Force Unleashed book which i own but haven't read yet!!
Kaedus
Kaedus - 5/6/2010, 12:03 PM
Man I love Star Wars.
I love the movies and EU, but I love them seperatley.
I always saw this game as part of the EU so I saw it as an alternative to what could've happened before the Original Trilogy. However, I do not accept it as part of the movie canon.
Awesome game though. Galen Marek (Starkiller) and Rahm Kota are 2 of my favourite characters :) also, much love for Proxy hehe.
Cool article.
Shaman
Shaman - 5/6/2010, 12:32 PM
Wadey- Great explanation my man ;)
Wadey09
Wadey09 - 5/6/2010, 1:02 PM
what can i say?
i'm a genius!!!!!
i know more about Star Wars than Lucas would WANT to know!
;p
Wadey09
Wadey09 - 5/6/2010, 1:26 PM
JK
punkazzINC
punkazzINC - 5/6/2010, 2:44 PM
This totally sums up my feelings about the whole argument. ;)
Scarface
Scarface - 5/6/2010, 3:38 PM
if Palpatine had clairvoyance enough to form the rebelion would he not have enough to see it a bad plan
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 5/6/2010, 3:40 PM
CDB! you know we're buddies so i wont be to harsh on you;)

wadey said what i was going to. that it is Sith tradition for the apprentice to kill the master. only two at a time.

and while he was trying to kill the emperor in FU and ROTJ the end-result he wanted was much different. at least in my mind. say he succeeded in FU and killed the emperor. what would he do then? take over the galaxy and rule it with and iron fist? thats what i would think. now say he were to live at the end of ROTJ after truly killing Palpatine. i bet he would be at peace with himself and live a good life after that. no more conquering, no more killing. so while he was trying to accomplish the same thing, Vader's character at those points in time had very different out-looks. in ROTJ he did it because he realized his son was right and fulfilled Jedi prophecy. in FU he would basically be fulfilling Sith prophecy. so IMO the force unleashed is a way better story than the prequels and in no way took away from the ending of ROTJ

and as far as ruining the character of Vader - i think GL took care of that in the prequel trilogy. *shutter* you said: "up until that moment, Vader was always seen as a brutal, heartless killer." except for when he was a total whiny bitch. lol

may the force be with you CDB!
Scarface
Scarface - 5/6/2010, 3:42 PM
@ Wadey09 the force is indeed strong with you my aprentice LOL
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/6/2010, 4:23 PM
@ odin


"up until that moment, Vader was always seen as a brutal, heartless killer." except for when he was a total whiny bitch. lol

well, when i made that comment i was talking about the original trilogy, before the new trilogy was released. in episodes 4-6, he was only known as a heartless killer. but you're right, he was kind of a sissy in the new trilogy. :)

i guess my whole problem with this, is that it changed the way i view Vader. I always thought of him as one of the greatest villains of all time, in any form of entertainment. and the whole idea that he wasn't quite AS bad as i thought, kind of irritated me. but after seeing some of the explanations you guys have given me, i have to say that i don't feel quite so bad about it anymore.

(the emperor creating the Rebellion is still stupid as [frick], though. lol)
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/6/2010, 4:25 PM
@ wadey

i'm 28. i wanted to know how old you were because i honestly thought you'd be older. no offense meant by that, its just that most people on this site that are in their teens don't know how to talk without being little pricks. also, its not often you find someone thats 18 that knows so much about Star Wars, especially the original and expanded stuff. so props to you, my friend :)

and thanks for the recommendations! I've also played the video game for Republic Commando, i thought that was great for its time! very cool. do you know if the novel follows that game at all?
1 2
View Recorder