EDITORIAL: No Love For Nolan?

EDITORIAL: No Love For Nolan?

Giving respect where it is due

Editorial Opinion
By nuclear139 - Jul 08, 2012 10:07 PM EST
Filed Under: The Dark Knight Rises

    Christopher Nolan is rightly criticized by many fans but his work as well as his accomplishments is undeniably great. He was given a dead franchise and was expected to not only turn it around but to undue the damage done to the franchise by Joel Schumacher. In examining Christopher Nolan let us be honest with ourselves, before he took over Batman the character was and could never be taken seriously. Tim Burton's Batman for all of its great achievements was pure art deco were criminals like the Joker could fry individuals to a Skeletal crisp with an electrical hand buzzer. His Batman was more fantasy based theatricality than a practical and grounded film therefore Selina Kyle could die and be reincarnated by cats and a monstrously deformed man who was abandoned by his parents can grow up in the sewer by subsisting on raw fish.



    Following that depiction of the dark Knight came campy over the top colorful villains whom were better suited to the 60's TV show than a live action movie, oh let's not forget the Bat nipples and crotch pieces. Of course today with Heath Ledger winning an Oscar for his portrayal of the Joker no one conveniently remembers the history of Batman on film and television. The fact that an actor is able to win such a prestigious award based off a character in a superhero comic book is because of Nolan's work on Batman. Audiences, critics and the world can only take a character seriously if it is portrayed seriously on screen therefore Nolan's work is as serious as heart attack.



    Too many Batman's take for granted and don't appreciate the work this man has done for them as well as this franchise and the character they love. Come let us reason together my fellow Bat fans who want a more fantastic caped crusader. Robin is not possible in Nolan's work or anyone for else's version of the character without raising eyebrows and troubling questions. Seriously can a grown man take a orphan preadolescent youth he adopted with him to fight crime on the rooftops of Gotham without audiences and critics raising questions about child endangerment? In this era of Jerry Sandusky and child molestation does not it seem creepy to you that an older man would seek company with much younger boys. If you make Robin older than he is in the comics than what is the purpose of him being Batman's ward when he could be his own independent crime fighter like Nightwing and why will someone who is 18 or 20 subjugate himself to the wish of a controlling overprotective Bruce Wayne?




    The problem with a more fantastical Batman is that he loses much of the seriousness found in Nolan's films and becomes just another comic book movie superhero that feature's a giant CGI lizard man. The most important element of a Batman film is not reality so much as it is keeping the character grounded as well as relatable to the audience and without that he becomes generic a superhero in a genre that is visually and imaginatively excessive. For example in a world of freeze rays, giant man-bats, shape shifting men of clay, phytokinetic women who naturally secret floral toxins and mad scientist that can transform humans in titanic monstrous beings, Batman becomes more a monster hunter of weird and strange creatures than the gothic billionaire crime fighter. Going this route alienates those who would like see a more real world hero whose experience is intertwined with humanity and at the bare minimum be somewhat believable. There is a difference between what can happen in the comics and what happens on film that difference should be respected.



    For Bat fans who want Batman films closer to The Avengers well let's examine the movie. The Avengers is a fun action packed superhero flick that is without question a thoroughly entertaining film but even in this comic book adaption there is an artistic license that is being taken with the characters. Tony Stark is not the same troubled alcoholic that he is in the comics, Thor is the guardian of the planet despite the fact that he spent less time on it than ET, and Bruce Banner is no longer a brooding fugitive desperately taking pints of his own blood looking for a cure for his gamma poisoning. Attempting to point out areas where Nolan departed from the comics without calling out Joss Whedon, Louis Leterrir and Sam Raimi for their departures is hypocritical and a presenting a double standard. What worked for The Avengers cannot work for Batman because Gotham's dark knight is a completely different character and deserves to be treated as such. Having a light colorful Batman will do more to take the character back to the days of Joel Schumacher instead of forward into the future. Creating a Batman movie that is fun with plot driven instead of character driven humor and loud action CGI sequences is an abomination to the character because he is a scary hardedge masked crime fighter who breaks legs, bust heads and get results.

    Those who eagerly look forward to a Nolan free Batman series do so ignorant of the history of Hollywood franchises. There are no franchises other than James Bond who consistently has had good directors and even in that case the filmmakers followed a set thematic pattern for that character. The Batman franchise has already defied history by having two great directors and I doubt there will be a third any time soon because at some point the franchise must come down to earth. Understand no superhero comic book franchise to date has ever received two great filmmakers and some Batman fans are hoping for three or four which is unbelievable even by James Bond standards. Nolan is a once in lifetime filmmaker after him who will Bat fans turn to keep the dark knight culturally relevant, emotionally impactful and still have the cinematic appeal as well as legitimacy to win top awards. As the old timers like to say "you never miss your water until your well run dry"
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xcrementus
xcrementus - 7/8/2012, 10:41 PM
I'm a die hard Marvel guy, and DC just never drew my interest. But Nolan's work was pretty damn amazing. Congratulations are in order for one of the best trilogies ever made (if advance reviews are anything to go by).

Sure, there's gripes to be made. But that's true of anything.

Here's hoping Superman can ride that wave of creativity. Nolan's producing makes me hopeful....but Sucker Punch makes me really really scared.

I'm still amazed that DC fumbled the Superman New 52 relaunch so very very badly. A flagship character! what were they thinking?!?!
xcrementus
xcrementus - 7/8/2012, 10:44 PM
I should add, that The Dark Knight is objectively better than Avengers. The story runs deeper, the themes are tighter, and it resonates long long after you leave the theater.
But it didn't have a Hulk.

The Dark Knight=Bob Dylan of CBM's.
Avengers=KISS of CBM's. One's got more brains. The other just rocks so godamn hard!! haha

Destroyer should have been the official score to Thor!
GuardianAngel
GuardianAngel - 7/8/2012, 10:49 PM
@Saint I'll have to disagree with you on the Arkham comment. Yes, done right a world like the Arkham games could be made into a good film but the only thing seperating Nolan's films from the source is realism. Why do the characters look different? Because thats the closest to reality a Comic Book character would look. Nolan poses the "What if" question with Batman. What if a man dressed like a bat to fight crime? What if this inspired others to take up a theatrical way of life? That mixed with elements of a regular filmverse are what takes it away from the real world.

And I myself being a huge fan of Nolan and his films also find those little pricks annoying but you have to learn that their just trolls. I love the Avengers no matter how hard the Marvelites rub its success in my face. Both sides have "Annoying Wankers" but you can't let their opinions get in the way of yours.
GuardianAngel
GuardianAngel - 7/8/2012, 10:52 PM
@xcrementus I completely agree with you on that TDK/Avengers comment. The reason I like TDK more than The Avengers is because the main thing I look at in a movie is story. If I see the story is not the film makers main focus then that really puts me down. But the action and humor (and the Hulk) in the climax definitely brought it up.
GuardianAngel
GuardianAngel - 7/8/2012, 10:53 PM
@Saint Give me an example
Alexandre
Alexandre - 7/8/2012, 10:57 PM
@SaintSpidey67Re

have you ever been given a budget of over 100 million to direct a film? if you haven't then shut the [frick] up about what you think will and will not work in a movie.

nuff said
GuardianAngel
GuardianAngel - 7/8/2012, 11:02 PM
Yes TDK had its flaws but like I said, the only things separating it from the real world are the "what ifs" and elements of a film (in other words "chance" or "luck".
GuardianAngel
GuardianAngel - 7/8/2012, 11:07 PM
Oh and great right up BTW. You pointed out some things that I've been trying to explain for a long time yet made it so easy.
GuardianAngel
GuardianAngel - 7/8/2012, 11:12 PM
Well Nolan came before Whedon so...
Alexandre
Alexandre - 7/8/2012, 11:17 PM
^
actually no. Whedon been in the game long before Nolan

"has worked with comics, animation, and has been the showrunner to at least two shows with enormous cult followings."
GuardianAngel
GuardianAngel - 7/8/2012, 11:25 PM
I know but he Weiner said Nolan is trying to be Whedon when Nolan is a far more highly regarded than Whedon. Not trying to spark anything. Just clearing that up.
Alexandre
Alexandre - 7/8/2012, 11:25 PM
i know alot of people on here would rather have a fantastical Batman film but haven't we had that already? nolan has only stepped away from that style with only three films and we cry like theres no going back. burton gave it to us and so did shoewhatever. so whats the problem if somebody decided to reboot the series with a different tone? im sure who ever takes the job next will also do their own take on it and give it a different tone. batman is very organic, we cant just have him always in one tone.
GuardianAngel
GuardianAngel - 7/8/2012, 11:26 PM
There we go Alexandre.
GuardianAngel
GuardianAngel - 7/8/2012, 11:32 PM
I can imagine Weiner's avatar saying everything he is.
Alexandre
Alexandre - 7/8/2012, 11:42 PM
"I used to enjoy The Dark Knight more when I didn't notice the major flaws (which I will not get into now, but I may make an editorial soon), but then I came to hate it because Nolan's cult parade it around as the best movie of all time and ruined it for me."

you seem to suffer from the same thing most people on here suffer from. a lack of standing on your own and saying [frick] you to the people.

do me a favor huh? don't be such a pussy, show me that you really have some balls and tell me that you hate the movie for what it is and not for what people made it out to be. then maybe i'll take you more serious.
antonio
antonio - 7/9/2012, 12:10 AM
Seriously, sometimes on this site Nolan is considered to be in the same vein as Hitler and for what reason??
antonio
antonio - 7/9/2012, 12:11 AM
"The Dark Knight=Bob Dylan of CBM's.
Avengers=KISS of CBM's. One's got more brains. The other just rocks so godamn hard!! haha"

This analogy I can get behind. Good stuff @xcrementus haha.

And I agree The New 52 Superman kind of sucks. Aquaman on the hand has gotten my respect by A LOT.
antonio
antonio - 7/9/2012, 12:14 AM
And I agree with this article 100%. What makes Avengers work can't work in Nolan's grounded REINTERPRETATION of Batman. However, there is always the reboot....
Alexandre
Alexandre - 7/9/2012, 12:17 AM
@antonio

because we're the "fans" and even though almost everyone from the comic book world to people on marvel camp all respect and consider nolan's take amazing, its all about what we think in here
antonio
antonio - 7/9/2012, 12:20 AM
"I used to enjoy The Dark Knight more when I didn't notice the major flaws (which I will not get into now, but I may make an editorial soon), but then I came to hate it because Nolan's cult parade it around as the best movie of all time and ruined it for me. They don't just call it the "best CBM", or "best Nolan film", but "best film of all time", when there are so many reasons for it to not be called so."

Another editorial regarding the flaws of TDK?? Is it even worth it??
antonio
antonio - 7/9/2012, 12:23 AM
@Alexandre I know, but a few members last year in the summer were comparing Nolan to Satan all because of his the look of Bane. It was an article where the Pittsburgh set pics were released.
Alexandre
Alexandre - 7/9/2012, 12:27 AM
best comment ive read so far by some dude here name starscream9289


"The thing about Batman is that there are so many interpretations of the character that it's impossible to please everyone. If Nolan had chosen Clayface as the main villain, someone would have said ARGH WHY DIDN'T HE CHOOSE THIS OTHER VILLAIN I'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO SEE ON FILM!

The thing about Nolan's Batman is that it's adapted from the characters earlier comics were he fought mobs. The supervillains came way later on.

Besides, after Burton and Schumaker's over the top and overly campy films, a little bit of grounding and seriousness is exactly what the franchise needed.

But just like the comics, this is just one of the thousands of other Batman interpretations. People can choose to like them or not, but that doesn't make them any less valid.

What Nolan did is prove that you can make a comic book movie that isn't just flashy CGI, explosions, and a predictable plot where the hero has to save the damsel in distress. I know people say that Nolan's Batfilms are just crime thrillers, but who says they have to all stick in the realm of sci fi or fantasy? Look at Sin City, V for Vendetta, 300, Road to Perdition. Not only some of the best CBM's of all time, but also some of the best films of all time. Why? Because they broke out of the typical CBM mold. They were different and they stood out. That's what the genre needs, more CBM's that step out of the status quo and do something new and different."
antonio
antonio - 7/9/2012, 12:30 AM
There is no definitive version of Batman. Anyone that actually thinks that well....they're crazy. It's their opinion, but they're crazy.
xcrementus
xcrementus - 7/9/2012, 12:31 AM
I'm pretty sure he can make an article with new points, that the 3000 other editorials didn't cover lol.

was Dark Knight good? yes.
was it awesome? yes.
was it in a shared universe? no.
was it perfect in every single way? no.
did it have any super-fantastical elements? no.
did it make a buttload of money? yes.
was it loved by the mainstream public? yes.
Is Christopher NOlan the most wonderful amazing artistic person in the whole universe? no, but he's pretty good.

Why is there still griping about this? its been out for years, we all liked it, let's everybody move on.

People should be way more excited about Rocket Raccoon and Groot on their way!!!!
antonio
antonio - 7/9/2012, 12:34 AM
@Xcrementus I cannot wait until Guardians Of The Galaxy is released!! Eventually...
xcrementus
xcrementus - 7/9/2012, 12:42 AM
I keep thinking about Rocky being introduced...

some alien bad guy running around the corner looking for intruders, and seeing this tiny little timid raccoon.

Rocky smiles, pulls out a tiny gun...that transforms into a giant cannon. And blows him away hahaha.

Endless hilarious possibilities.
xcrementus
xcrementus - 7/9/2012, 12:43 AM
it also makes me smile, thinking of little kids holding Rocket Raccoon and Groot toys in 2014 lol. never ever thought that'd happen.
SageMode
SageMode - 7/9/2012, 12:56 AM
Why are there always countless articles on here of people defending Nolan? Lol.

Well anyhow, most of the criticism that Nolan gets regarding his Batman films is the fact that he took all the fantastical elements and comic book tones out of the Batman mythos in his movies. That's giving no respect to the character him/themselves and even if you ask the majority of Batman fans (excluding the Nolanites), they are not pleased with his take on the subject.

Nolanites believe that what worked for THE AVENGERS won't work for Batman on film.....that's just biased claims. First and foremost Batman is a COMIC BOOK CHARACTER and as such his movies should embrace that while still not being watered down for the sake of that overrated "realism" bullcrap. While at the same time, it should not be light-hearted as the AVENGERS.

So all in all, it's Nolans interpretation of the source material that's the problem.
xcrementus
xcrementus - 7/9/2012, 1:02 AM
what the Hell kind of Batman fan didn't like Nolan's movies?

Just because it didnt have bad guys who have clay for face, or because Liam Neeson didn't jump in a big green pool of slime?

I hate the Nolan/Marvel bullcrap, especially cus i like Marvel and it gives us fans a bad name. Credit where credit's due, Nolan makes good BATMAN movies. period.

Iron Man 3 won't use magic in regards to Mandarin. Maybe a little traditional mysticism, but not magic. Does that mean it's not really Iron Man?

Just cus a couple of elements are changed to fit the mission statement, doesn't mean the whole project was a write off.

I question whether people who "hated" nolan's batman really even like comics...period.

PS-Nolan's a bit of a twat. I still like his style though. But this site makes me shiver when i hear his name, cus of this silly back and forth.
MisterFixit
MisterFixit - 7/9/2012, 1:29 AM
"Why are there always countless
articles on here of people defending Nolan? Lol" quote lol
xcrementus
xcrementus - 7/9/2012, 1:34 AM
Batman is goofy. He dresses like a bat. Fact.

If I had Anne Hathaway in my movie, i wouldn't be putting a cowl on her. In fact i'd probably mandate no costume or clothing at all. And if she objects, I'd promise her The Bat after production wraps.

its hard to seduce people with a mask on.

Cap's Avengers helmet was silly. And distracted me. Still love Steve though.

xcrementus
xcrementus - 7/9/2012, 2:01 AM
amen Spidey23. My sentiments exactly. I don't hate Inception though, i'm just OK with it. The Prestige though, man that was awesome!! It was way better than TDK lol.
Its like hes equivalent to God around here. When really he's just a cool director.

You know what i always wanted? A Fantastic Four movie directed by Spielberg. Holy shit can you imagine? Mr Action-Adventure himself, in charge of a healthy amount of cloberrin.
But no. Instead we get Barbershop guy. twice. sigh.

I'm so glad Whedon finally got his big super-break. He needed a win, after so many projects getting shot down or cancelled (undeservedly I might add). I've loved everything he's ever done, from Buffy to Angel to Dollhouse, to Firefly, even Dr Horrible. He's got so much heart, and just kept soldiering on and on. And it all paid out for him finally, big-time.
marvel72
marvel72 - 7/9/2012, 3:09 AM
batman begins & the dark knight are good but bob dylan sucks,so why compare them to him.

i suppose its right if you like dylan.
xcrementus
xcrementus - 7/9/2012, 3:19 AM
While the rest of world was singing about shoo-bops and making out under boardwalks, Bob was singing about poverty, race, greed, sex and justice. You know, real things. And all he had was a silly haircut and a guitar behind him.
He was punk rock before there was punk rock.
But feel free to hate him.
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