Why I'm Not Excited for Marvel's Phase 2, But Have High Hopes for MAN OF STEEL

Why I'm Not Excited for Marvel's Phase 2, But Have High Hopes for MAN OF STEEL

An honest appraisal of marvels achievements in Cinema.

Editorial Opinion
By jpfola26 - Sep 11, 2012 02:09 PM EST
Filed Under: Fan Fic
Source: comicBookMovie.com

For a while I have wondered why Marvel fans are so excited about what Marvel has achieved in recent years. It really puzzles me, the extreme excitement about any of Marvels out put apart from the amazing film The Avengers.

While The Avengers as mentioned above was pretty impressive, it remains nonetheless only amazing, insofar as it was the first to do a Superhero team-up, bringing together some of Marvels greatest heroes. But actually when you look at the individual movies leading up to The Avengers, they were all pretty lack luster.

The most criminal case was The Incredible Hulk with Ed norton. Marvel and Executive producer Kevin Fiege, really demonstrated their true colors in that exchange. While I admit Edward Norton was rather unprofessional in his response to Marvel ruining his movie, it is clear that they brought him in promising that he would have some creative control over the project, then when he actually wrote a quite good script, they deleted all the scenes, so the movie was hardly even intelligible.



If anyone can tell me why they chose to delete this scene apart from an absolute contempt for their viewers intelligence, please enlighten me. It´s a brilliantly acted scene, amidst other brilliant deleted scenes, that would have turned, a cynical, money making, arcade game of a movie into a great comic book movie with a deep interesting lead character. As such it was only mediocre.

Thor was very similar affair, as was Captain America. Again, great performances, but all in all, good but throw away movies. They just don´t have any heart, because their is no artistic integrity behind them.

I will give Marvel props, that they believe in their characters, no matter how silly, and they have faith that we love comics enough to even give an Ant Man film a chance, while DC/WB are still worried about Wonder Woman not translating into film. They - Marvel - believe in their characters and that is why I´ve supported them, and may well even catch a couple of their phase 2 movies. But, I´m getting older now, and I need something a bit more intellectually and emotionally satisfying for me to keep buying tickets, and if Marvel´s past record is anything to go by, I don´t expect to be blown a way by anything in phase 2, not even the second Avengers. The hype is up, you´ve done the Superhero mashup, people will get bored if you don´t mature, that´s my message to Marvel.

Now on to Superman: Man Of Steel. By all intents and purposes, Zack Snyder looks to be making one of the most exciting comic book movies to ever have been made. He´s doing something novel, like his Watchmen movie, he´s placing Superman in the real world, and asking what the hell would that mean. It´s a fantastic grounded approach, that looks like it will be visually imaginative, emotionally stirring and intellectually satisfying for adults and kids alike.

This kind of movie making should be applauded, and I hope he does well. I´ll certainly be watching.

About The Author:
jpfola26
Member Since 7/31/2012
Writer, Script Writer, Comic Book Fanatic
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CPBuff22
CPBuff22 - 9/11/2012, 3:08 PM
So very many people are going to be disappointed after this movie. One has to remember that Time Warner is behind the Man of Steel. Gives me way more than a few doubts.
Altair
Altair - 9/11/2012, 3:20 PM
CAPS LOCK TITLES MAKE EVERYTHING BETTER HAHA DONT YOU JUST LOVE CAPS LOCKS HAHAHA I WANT SOME CAPS LOCK WOO CAPS LOCK!!!!!!
Altair
Altair - 9/11/2012, 3:22 PM
@Fanboy who wrote this article

Why only be excited for one movie? Sure, Man of Steel does look amazing, but these Superman and Batman movies are gonna start to get tired, whether you want to admit it or not. If Marvel is doing anything, it's not making amazing, Nolan-Style movies but they're strengthening the genre and expanding the universe. Last time DC tried to do this we got Green Lantern.
jessepostal
jessepostal - 9/11/2012, 3:32 PM
To say marvel movies have no heart is ridiculous, especially tfa. Marvel makes movies for the every person, something for everyone. To me you sound like a Cbm fan that wants everything by the book and geared toward your opinion of what makes a good cbm
MisterMagurlypse
MisterMagurlypse - 9/11/2012, 3:40 PM
Respect your opinion, but here we go with that grounded stuff again. While I enjoyed many of the "grounded" CBMs out there, I don't think I would've enjoyed CATFA, IM 1 or 2, Thor and TIH as much if they were presented in that fashion. I for one enjoyed TIH very much and mainly cause it gave us an awesome slugfest between Abomination and Hulk! There's a time and place for that grounded thing and MOS is for sure that place. I'm stoked for MOS cause I think it's the Superman movie we need. I'm not doing the Gordon thing here.
themidnightking
themidnightking - 9/11/2012, 4:07 PM
Man Of Steel is gonna be good, but don't trash Marvel
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 9/11/2012, 4:07 PM
Thor was very similar affair, as was Captain America. Again, great performances, but all in all, good but throw away movies. They just don´t have any heart, because their is no artistic integrity behind them.

What is this? Captain America was ALL heart, and Thor had this:


This scene made Loki my favorite villain of any CBM ever made, even managing to push Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger's performances behind him (although just slightly). When you stand toe to toe with Anthony Hopkins and come out on top - damn. Loki telling his brother that he can never come home - if that wasn't full of heart, then we must have different definitions.

(and I liked Ang Lee's Hulk a thousand times more than The Incredible Hulk, but the two are completely different)

I'm going to take Norman Reedus' advice, and when I go see Man of Steel next year, I'm going to do what I always do with movies I've paid $10-$40 for myself or myself and friends to go see - enjoy it.

It stands to reason that Zach Snyder could make a fantastic Superman movie, even with Kevin Costner as Pa Kent. But I'm not going to get my hopes so high that if a different direction is taken than what I desire, the whole thing will come crashing down.
jessepostal
jessepostal - 9/11/2012, 4:21 PM
You may not like feige but in my eyes he's keeping these movies going in the same direction, if he wasn't there we could have a mess on our hands like many previous Cbms that get a bad name.i see what your saying but give it time and well see what happens, my opinion is that we will get a little more grown up and adult with these movies now that they have set the foundation. characters are now established its time to watch them grow and mature
jjk2814
jjk2814 - 9/11/2012, 5:00 PM
@jpfola26, okay, now with this article, I feel totally reverse of your opinions.

With Marvel all you have to look at is this; The Avengers is the #3 All Time US and Worldwide Earner. Marvel made a series of films that lead into The Avengers, that people watched, enjoyed, and continued to go see unabated. Everyone is allowed their opinion, but you can't deny the folk at Marvel got something pretty damned right.

I'm a DC guy myself, I so desperately want Man Of Steel to be good...but I feel a little like you feel from your "Mad as Hell" article. Almost nothing I hear coming out of it sounds good. I'm worried...a little mad about some things...and afraid it just won't be Superman...but some lame New 52ish, watered down, update. But...that's my opinion. And I want it to be wrong
RustyShackelford
RustyShackelford - 9/11/2012, 6:03 PM
How does Marvel not trust their directors? They gave Whedon complete creative control. And yes while amazing Spiderman was good it didn't compare to Thor, Captain America,or Ironman. It just didn't have the heart. And Ironman had more heart than almost any comicbook movie. It just sounds to me that your uneducated on movies and think everything should be done by your opinion.
SpoonWielder
SpoonWielder - 9/11/2012, 6:09 PM
You realize that the director and editor are the people in charge of cutting scenes right? You can't blame a producer for that.
Minato
Minato - 9/11/2012, 6:25 PM
@saintspidey... well said
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 9/11/2012, 6:42 PM
Another point about artistic integrity...
Consider this: why is Joe Johnston NOT returning to Captain America? Why is Kenneth Branagh not returning to Thor?

Apart from scheduling conflicts, the main issue is whose style works best with the direction the story takes. Joe Johnston, the director of Rocketeer, LOVES, and I mean LOVES the WWII period. With "the Winter Soldier" taking place in a predominantly modern time period, it's reasonable to say that no, it is not right up his alley.

The Russo Bros, who are really only known for comedy tv shows - seem like an odd choice, but I'm certain there's something going on there that we just don't know about. Maybe they really clicked.

As for Thor, we're getting a director from television series such as Game of Thrones, Mad Men, the Sopranos... I daresay we're in for a divergence.
jjk2814
jjk2814 - 9/11/2012, 7:03 PM
well said, Tainted87.
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 9/11/2012, 7:38 PM
Thanks :)
Wallymelon
Wallymelon - 9/11/2012, 8:57 PM
this article is ridiculous. man of steel is probably going to be pretty awesome. everything i've heard seems kinda cool except for the fact michael shannon is in the roll of general zod. I hope it's nothing like sucker punch tho because that is the worst film synder has made. but everyone cant be awesome all the time.

i have my issue with dc trying to capitalize off the avengers success withthe justice league. we all knew it was inevitable but still. i just dont really want to see superman and batman in a movie togetehr. i never really understood the team up to begin with beyond the spectacle that it's two iconic heros. i've read comics, seen the movies, and shows but it still never makes sense. batman is the greatest hero of all time with no powers just a brain and a huge bank account up against superman this god that cant be hurt unless you have the radioactive rock kryptonite. wack.

i'm a huge marvel guy always have been. never have really been a fan of thor in comics. which is strange because i love all the greek norse and roman mythology. but thor in comics has always been weird to me. but the thor movie changed all of that for me. i was expecting the worst peice of trash ever, but to say it has no heart is ridiculous. the relationship between thor and his brother was incredible, still is incredible. i wasnt expecting chris hemsworth to pull it off but he is doing great. he's playing a great real world version of thor. if thor existed he probably wouldnt be as pretty, but in comic lore the poise is great. the time on earth i thought was fine. everyone has a huge issue with it, i thought it was the right amount of time. it's a great way to introduce the character to the american audience who is already not really vibing off the fact that a norse god is a superhero. it helped humanize the character. the third act could have been better but all in all i give it 3.5/5.

i honestly didn't like capTFA the first few times i saw it. it grew on me but still i don't like it that much. i see why people like it but everything about it was just too in your face for me. feel this feel that. not down. just too dramatic. i want a more badass soldier out of my cap. when i was a kid i had the dopest action figure cap and he was my main guy. he was the captain. in the comics on the tv shows he's just a dope soldier with a heart. i want a dope soldier. i hope we get a badass in the next film. to go up against the winter soldier we need a badass.

marvel is doing a great job with their films. amazing spiderman was a huge piece of shit. waste of time. only decent thing was the acting and i give them props for that because the script was terrible.

the incredible hulk was an awesome movie even tho i agree with you hard about the final film being only a 1/4 of what norton added. that 1/4 really helped the film though. it feels like the only movie where its not that connected to the universe too. maybe because they switched actors but i feel its just cuz in the beginning they had no idea what they were doing.

kevin feige now has help from the man known as the savior to the cinematic universe joss whedon. he is going to shephard the next phase of films dude. that means he is going to be invloved in every film making sure it all has to do with his next film. because they are all technically prequels and sequels to the avengers films. which is a beautiful thought. having the guy that's putting the money into it and has a huge love for the characters as well as makin the franchise work and last and then adding a guy who is in it solely because he doesnt want to see someone else screw it up. that is another awesome thought. if i could be in that position i would take it immidiately. oh you want to make a cinematic universe out of my favorite comics? yeah i need to make sure you don't ruin it.

so before you just write off this next phase remember a couple things;
movies are for having fun and getting out of this reality for a couple hours.
not everything needs to be deep and gritty.
it's ok to have fun.
if you pay attention to the list of directors and writers for the next phase you would see that they are going for a little bit of a darker tone.
if you pay attention to the interviews and quotes that pop up you would see that joss is about to make this even better than the last phase, which means not as big and booming and ridiculous. somethign better out of joss means something real. he just made much ado about nothing in his backyard. joss is a real filmaker thats a supernerd. look at james gunn. the russos are awesome. community is one of my favorite shows and all the action plus the drama and comedy is incredible. trust me on that. they are very unconventional but with the cap they are portraying in this unoiverse is more dramatic than badass anyway so i feel like it is going to work out pretty well. everyone will be pleasantly surpised. alan taylor is a great choice. its going to be a lord of the rings thor. the thor that everyone wants. that big fantasy adventure with some sci fi elements. which is awesome. edgar wright?! like what?! sooo dope! sooo dope! have you seen chaun of the dead? have you seen scott pilgrim? have you seen attack the block? ant man is a random ass character. but i love hank pym. if they go with scott lang. i will probably veto. but pym is the man. science is the key to ant man. edgar wright is the only guy who could do this movie. its about a dude who shrinks who eventually gets giant. it is very silly. edgar is silly. but can make silly the most awesome thing youve ever seen. hot fuzz? shane black! dude! kiss kiss bang bang. nuff said.

you are underestimating marvel. marvel is about to wreck this game. only wild card is guardians of the galaxy. but i really like james gunn so we will see.

nolans batman films are incredible, but i still dont love them the way everyone else does. batman begins is great. dark knight is a great film but a little too dark and its only awesome anytime joker or harvey dent is on the screen. the acting was great but the dialogue was whatever still a great film. dark knight rises same thing. some of the story needed to be fixed. bane was dope. cat woman coulda been used more. a great combination of the two but i have the most problems with it just for little things still liked it. as a whole incredible. i just feel some things could have been changed to make it more suitable for me. thats all opinion stuff so it doesnt matter.

Wallymelon
Wallymelon - 9/11/2012, 10:09 PM
@jpfola26 completley agree wit you on the red skull bit. he should have been made out like hitler himself, just pure evil. and i feel your issue with marvel. before joss whedon they had no clue what they were doing. and i can assure you joss will fix that prolem. if phase 2 sucks, which it totally could. then you can blame me. haha. please dont.

im nervous for phase 2 man. it could seriosuly ruin cbm forever. thats my issue with justice league. and dc sharing a universe. and spiderman or xmen eventually tieing into the marvel universe. like. its too much. makes you have to be invested in every movie even if you really dont like a character. and some movies will always be better than others so how can you balance people wanting to come back for more. it's a scary process i hope is executed as well as the first phase. i hope dc doesnt mess it all up with the justice league. i would love to see other dc characters have thir day but im not sure about team ups unless they are necessary.

if i was going to make a dc universe i wouldve started with justice league and completley rebooted every character from that point on. it would be a good juxaposition to marvel. start with one big movie and end up with spinoffs from that going into their own narratives.

@jokerfanhahaha homie. anything wrong with the hulk can be traced to zak penn. anythign wrong with anythign in any cbm can be traced to zak penn. norton is the reason that movie was able to even be a movie. look up the directors interviews about the whole debacle. norton rewrote a shitty script. he was alloted some creative control. maybe not as much as he got but he seriously helped the movie. rdj has creative control over the iron man universe. he even worked with joss for avengers.

youre right to marvel not liking the process feeling norton may have abused some of the power he was granted but they wont deny that he did help make a better movie and helped reinvigorate the character. granted i love ruffalos hulk. it took me 9 times to see the movie to finally love it like the rest of the fans do but im a huge fan of the incredible hulk film so i was holding on to that. i love ruffalo. loved his take. loved that he decided to make hulk more of kid. i think that's what the hulk needed. to be more childlike in how he acts. not just this big brute but more of a misunderstood kid. norton probably would have been really awesome to see as bruce banner but i cant see him playing the hulk. i think his take on the character was the more dramatic side, less of the more ignorant "i just want to have fun" vibe.

marvel72
marvel72 - 9/12/2012, 1:33 AM
its alright you don't have to be excited for marvel phase 2,i know i am & thats all that matters.
Orphix
Orphix - 9/12/2012, 1:50 AM
Firstly, I'd just like to say that this is a well written editorial - so props for that.

And secondly I AM exicted for phase two. But I do understand where you're coming from (so to speak!)

I think what the main issue here is the approach to film making these films take. Normally when making a film the director has total control - it is their film. The producer is there simply to get the elements of filmaking together once they have found a story they want to tell.

Marvel Studios do things much differently. The producer(s) are king and have ultimate control. The directors, by and large, are basically 'guns for hire' who 'fit' appropriately with what Marvel Studios want to do.

Do I blame Marvel Studios and Kevin Fiege in particular for taking this approach? Not at all. What they are doing is tying a MCU together with multiple characters. It's a real undertaking and almost impossible to do.

The result? Films that are somewhat 'safe' and don't really take any artistic chances or flair. Thor, I felt was fun but a bit lackluster - but it was a hard concept to sell. A crazy idea. So this is not the place for auteurs and big name filmakers.

Thor, Ironman, Cap, Hulk, etc all have to exist in the same universe. They have to pull, artistically and tonally, in the same direction. Hence the slightly lackluster feel to some movies.

However, why am I excited by Phase 2???? Because of the success so far of phase 1 chances can now be taken! Ironman can be a technological, corporate, conspiracy thriller. Thor can be an gritty, epic fantasy. Captain America can be all out action adventure.

As for Snyder - I am not sure he is the great exciting artistic choise many believe. I thought Watchmen was a straitjacketed, shackled, lumbering lump that had no ideas of its own. Why make that movie? I can just read my comic again and see it done properly, thanks!
Kalel219
Kalel219 - 9/12/2012, 6:26 AM
"For christ sake, even Donners superman 2 had better action scenes when you think about it"

Yeah, no it didn't.

breakUbatman
breakUbatman - 9/12/2012, 8:20 AM
@RustyShackelford

Whedon didn't have complete creative control, on the Blu Ray he states that Marvel had certain story points etc that they wanted in the movie then he had to build a narrative around that.

Whedon just knows how to play well with others, I guess Norton and co got a raw deal but at this point in the game directors know what Marvel requires I'm sure there's wiggle room for creativity.

I'm looking forward to Man of Steel and Phase 2 I love CBM's whether they are comic faithful or new takes on characters I don't mind as long as the film is good. Phase one movies suffered from inconsistency for example Loki and Thor were perfect but then the movie got bogged down by Earth and certain cast members phoned in their performances. Aside from IM2 I'd say they all had heart.

As for TASM it had heart but no vision, I'd personally put it behind Avengers, TDK Trilogy, Iron Man, First Class, Kick Ass, Thor, Cap and Hellboy.
Coldblood6
Coldblood6 - 9/12/2012, 1:49 PM
Arguably the most worthless piece of tripe I've ever seen on CBM.

Jealous DC fanboys need to be ignored with extreme prejudice.


I have to say that I'm really baffled as to what people are seeing so far that confirms to them that MOS is going to be great. I think it looks promising but it's still a 'wait and see' prospect, as is all films of the MCU.

I prefer a unified vision that maintains the integrity of the characters and makes you feel as if comicbook characters are truly coming to life. When directors go off on their own tangent we often don't get the characters we grew up loving being brought to life. nolan's 'Batman' trilogy is a prime example; that's not Batman.
SomTingWong
SomTingWong - 9/12/2012, 2:53 PM
DO NOT TRASH MARVEL!
blite32
blite32 - 9/12/2012, 3:20 PM
I feel marvel phase 2 is going to be a lot better than phase one because they are going to make the movies just about the main characters and not movies that are just previews for
the avengers(btw a masterpiece)
Wallymelon
Wallymelon - 9/12/2012, 3:30 PM
@jpfol26

the actioni in batman wasnt amazing dude. it was some cool stuff. but it was all thrillery type of action. not the awesome fantasical type of action. it was the type of action youve scene in movies with tons of guns and cops. i enjoyed it but wasnt really impressed.

you're right some of the action hasnt been incredible. avengers has had the best action so far in any marvel movie besides the awesome attack on x manor in x2. but thor killed it in the opening of thor. his attack on the frost giants was awesome. that was some badass shit. the fight between hulk and abomination was pretty cool. but you're right the action in most of phase one wasnt amazing until avengers. like i said before phase 1 was the producers trying to figure it all out. they were taking a chance on connecting these movies and they wer eplaying it safe. now in phase 2 im sure they are going to go hard with everything. they can make these movies fun and gritty now. nolans batman trilogy was awesome and a great take on how you can make a cbm a real film versus a pop film. nolan did a great job. because not many comic books can be made like that. marvel doesnt need to take that super uber dark route. where everything needs to be so realistic. i feel marvel is doing a great job of giving the films realistic elemnts while still keeping your imagination going. the fact that they made thor an alien is giving it credence that it can be plausible inour reality. the steps they are making are going in a very realistic/sci fi route. with movies like iron man and cap and ant man that can deal in more real world grounded problems you have thor which is an alien and has to do with the astro or quantum science of our world is also sorta mystical and can double as a space dude or a medeival god. which is awesome. its going to be strange but really cool to see. because it makes sense that this aliens world is just very medieval in there way. they have such advance technology that its like magic. and then you have this cosmic group which is basically more science. the sheild tv show is a very human realistic organization that deals with all this crazy alien shit. which is awesome. everything has to do with science which is how this world is starting to think anyway. so if they just focus on the scientific aspect of all these characters then i feel phase 2 will give all the people who want a more realistic world out of a super hero.
dezdigi
dezdigi - 9/13/2012, 7:23 AM
I think you're being a tad pessimistic. Marvel haven't astounded me with their films (IM 1 and the Avengers being an exception) but I liked and own every one of them. I think Phase 2 has the potential to be a lot better. Hopefully, Whedon brings a personal touch to this phase. I would really like to see more dramatic tension between the characters this time.
And as for MOS, fingers crossed, but we can't assume anything at this point. Imagine the disappointment if it fails, a lot of let down fans. MOS needs to succeed for a DCCU to begin, so I really hope it's good. All we have is a cast, director, producer, and writer, but most of us haven't seen a full trailer yet. I'll reserve my judgement till then!
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