They Didn't Know Their CBMs Would Suck: Superman IV

They Didn't Know Their CBMs Would Suck: Superman IV

Generally speaking, whenever I cover the making of a film or television show, the research is done before the final product is either completed or aired, so the people being interviewed are fired up about the projects they’re working on. But so often the final product makes you ask, “How could you have NOT known what you were making?”

By EdGross - Mar 21, 2011 09:03 PM EST
Filed Under: Superman

I remember when Superman IV: The Quest For Peace was being made. I was the first person to interview screenwriters Mark Rosenthal and Lawerence Konner, who told me about their excitement over the project, about meeting with Christopher Reeve at (what I believe was) an IMAX theatre where they watched a documentary about Earth, showing the planet from space and triggering the notion that Superman would look at his adopted home as one world with no boundaries, and how he would do anything he had to in order to keep humanity safe.



Sounds great, doesn’t it? It might have been if the production company, Cannon Films, hadn’t slashed the budget in half just before production began (but that’s another story for another time).

Later, I spoke to the film’s director, Sidney Furie, and spent about 90 minutes on the phone with him -- this after having spoken to Richard Donner, who sang Sidney’s praises and expressed his enthusiasm about wanting to see what the director came up with.

For his part, Furie’s imagination was captured by the disarmament theme of the film, particularly the ending in which the Man of Steel realizes the choice is not his to make; that mankind must control its own destiny. But to encourage the global village concept, Superman, in an earlier draft of the screenplay, takes a young boy into orbit so he can tell the world what Earth really looks like.

"You can't tell where one country begins and another ends," reports young Jeremy. "It's just one world."

"And maybe one day everyone will see it," Superman responds.



"I'm proud of that idea," Furie proclaimed to me while Superman IV was in post production. "If that's corny, then to hell with it. That's what I want to be: corny. It's not that it's a message. It's just a good feeling. To me, the thrill of it all is that Superman IV is a family picture. A family can sit there, have a good time and be moved a little bit."

At the same time he also wondered if it would connect with an audience. "Maybe it will be too real for an audience," he conceded. "Maybe they can buy whales having to make a sound to save the 23rd century [as in Star Trek IV] because it's not real, but they can't accept a disarmament theme. I don't know. The only thing that makes it work for me is Superman trying to disarm the world and Lex Luthor trying to sell the other side missiles. Every time you have a 'message' scene, in comes Lex who just beats up on it. It's that quality that keeps it a comedy. Superman IV doesn't get that serious, but it's interesting to see if mixed in with the shredded wheat the audience wants some fresh fruit. If the picture doesn’t work, it's because the audience didn't buy it. But I never felt the theme was a problem.

"Having courage and guts is part of the insanity of this business," Furie pointed out to me as our conversation came to a close. "The truth is that whether your film is about the great mythological character you have to do right by, or it's a little movie that nobody has heard of, you still approach it like it's the most important thing in the world. And failing is still the worst thing in the world. But you fail, you go on, you succeed once in a while and you don't think about it too often. It goes with the territory....We're gunslingers, and you don't win every duel."

Unfortunately the duel with Superman IV was lost, but damn if everyone involved didn’t get me psyched in the months leading up to its release, because THEY were psyched.. at the time.

IN THE NEXT INSTALLMENT, WE’LL LOOK AT SYLVESTER STALLONE’S JUDGE DREDD.
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logunvadercap
logunvadercap - 3/21/2011, 9:32 PM
they should have brought richard pryor back fom the third one.
vermillion
vermillion - 3/21/2011, 9:39 PM
I've actually only seen parts of Superman IV on TV... That was enough for me. Superman I and II (RDC) are still awesome to me though. :D

Scorpioxfactor
Scorpioxfactor - 3/21/2011, 9:42 PM
3rd times a charm. I think the fight scene on the moon was the best part of the movie...especially when Supes plants the American Flag.
EdGross
EdGross - 3/21/2011, 9:49 PM
Personally, I love the first time Superman addresses the United Nation and proclaims he's going to rid the world of all nuclear missiles. For just a moment, I believe again.
WellDrawn
WellDrawn - 3/21/2011, 9:50 PM
Anyone ever watch the deleted scene with Bizarro? For some reason they dressed him up like a glam rocker. And everyone making the movie forgot that humans can't breath in space.
LP4
LP4 - 3/21/2011, 9:52 PM
This movie was a fu*king disgrace. I'm sorry guys but it was. I remember in one scene when Supes is flying over the moon, you can actually see the wires holding up Superman... -_-

lame.
SHHH
SHHH - 3/21/2011, 10:09 PM



Joe6Pack74
Joe6Pack74 - 3/21/2011, 10:14 PM
Superman 4 was bad but not worse than Batman and Robin. It sucked on a different level. The anti Ronald Reagan tone was un-American.
TheBatman938865
TheBatman938865 - 3/21/2011, 10:23 PM
when i heard about the story i thought it would be great....but no...such a disappointment
HeadlessJensen
HeadlessJensen - 3/21/2011, 10:55 PM
I loved Superman IV. The battles with Nuclear Man were classic. Nuclear Man's theme as well. Plus, Reeve served as Writer on this, and I love his work. And Lenny, Lex's boneheaded Nephew was hilarious. They were just having fun with the last movie, can't blame 'em.
ender
ender - 3/21/2011, 10:57 PM
I know what went wrong on Supes 4, they spent their entire budget on actually blowing up the Great Wall of China, and since when did Superman have the ability to create bricks and place them in perfect formation with his eyes? I must have missed that issue.
Blackmatter
Blackmatter - 3/21/2011, 10:59 PM
III & IV were both very bad,,not sure which was worse.
uvsk420
uvsk420 - 3/21/2011, 10:59 PM
?
Blackmatter
Blackmatter - 3/21/2011, 11:03 PM
I guess ya gotta be headless to think that IV was good.
Jolt17
Jolt17 - 3/21/2011, 11:08 PM
Do BATMAN & ROBIN LOL!
uvsk420
uvsk420 - 3/21/2011, 11:09 PM
i don't know disarming of every nuclear weapon on earth by someone no one earth could stop not bad, the energy man kicking supes' but and litterly giving him the boot from liberty isle and who knows where he landed; which somehow made him sick; and for taking thd kid into space that was pre-crisis supes he could do whatever he wanted, as an adult watching it now i see where your coming from, but i was like 5 when it came out so when i think of it; it was a great movie from my childhood and thats why i like it.but compared to todays cbm's it aint all that. in my opinion its though its better than wolverine origins
ender
ender - 3/21/2011, 11:11 PM
Watching this movie always makes me like Superman Returns more.
ender
ender - 3/21/2011, 11:13 PM
@uvsk420, What is this? I don't even....
jaysin420
jaysin420 - 3/21/2011, 11:25 PM
The whole idea of whether or not it should be up to Superman to stop nuclear weapons was great, but the villains were just so god damn awful it killed everything.

It seemed like Hackman just didn't care at all, Lex's nephew was painful and radioactive man was like the weakest bad guy ever.

But Reeve was awesome as usual.
potterODFL
potterODFL - 3/21/2011, 11:42 PM
It was the fight that got me. It was just a big cat fight. In superman 2 had better fights in it.
uvsk420
uvsk420 - 3/22/2011, 12:20 AM
@ender using my phone, it wont let me use the erase option only the edit one, i messed up and posted it twice, so i just put the question mark there
NERO
NERO - 3/22/2011, 12:34 AM
One thing I look back on growing up in the 80's was the odd certainty that we were going to blow ourselves up, total nuclear annihilation. Films like this, all the dystopian sci-fi like Mad Max, the comics like Watchmen, music like 99 Red Balloons and Men at Work’s It’s a Mistake ; all of it preached that we were never going to see the millennium.

Then 'Lo and Behold, the “bad guys” were... gone. The USSR just folded, in '88 we were just waiting for the inevitable hammer to fall, then the Berlin Wall falls instead, then next thing you know Boris Yeltsin is on a tank with a bull horn and then all of a sudden you have to get new villains for Bond flicks. My dad laughs about remembering the Cuban Missile Crisis the way I remember the Cold War, he knew it was happening, but the details are vague, and we really were on the edge back then more so than any time. It never fails to amaze me how utterly oblivious kids can be. Not that it’s a bad thing, mind you.

I look at my grandparent’s generation and those post WWII Babyboomers and wonder how they consciously lived with the idea that someone could set off Armageddon with a 30 minute launch window. "Duck and Cover," my ass. No wonder so many people drank and smoked from that time the underlying nagging stress must have been something. I mean if the Civil Defense sirens went off you had 30 minutes max before… well, lights out. What do you do with 30 minutes to live? [frick], don’t even sound the things just let us go in mid sentence, poof, vapor; taken apart by the light, molecules now riding the wave of Gamma expanding out at light speed from the point of ignition. Three shakes of a lamb's tail and we’re done. Why the hell give me time to think about it?

I digress.

The sudden transition was a really odd time. One I don't think the younger generation gets in a way, and to be honest, even as 32 year old man today, the memories of the anxiety, the undercurrent of nervousness, that went with the Cold War is something I was too young to really feel. All of a sudden Russia was Russia and not the Soviet Union, after a childhood of Red Dawn and Rambo, Doctor Strangelove and people screaming Reagan was going to start WWIII, all of a sudden it was… over. Turns out there were no crazy scheming generals who prayed for the war to end all wars, or mad men looking for the excuse to push the button for no good reason, turns out all along it was reasonable men (maybe not Tricky Dick) who realized they had a tremendous responsibility when it came to keeping the guns in their holsters and the ICBMs in their silos. Turns out nobody wanted to rule the world or blow it up. I think that is where my odd faith in humanity comes from. Sorry for the rant, but the nostalgia got me thinking, I guess.

The main problem, the thing that always nagged at me even as a kid watching this movie is that Superman was kinda’ being a bit of a dictator there. He was going to take our nukes? Who made you God, asshole? Kind of the normal American indignant response to being told we “will” do something by someone else, kind of brings out that “Oh, really Moment” that is so common to us. So for our nonAmerican members remember the American Ego has less to do with us wanting to tell everyone else what to do, as honestly we don’t care what everyone else does, just that we’ll be damned if anyone is going to tell US what to do. We’re the 13 year old Emo fat kid at the Sadie Hawkins dance, whose mom made us go, basically. Weird isn’t it?
parascythe
parascythe - 3/22/2011, 12:47 AM
THE GREATEST WHAT IF: what if Christopher Reeve is alive ang Zackis Directing
marvel72
marvel72 - 3/22/2011, 4:25 AM
superman 4 the quest for peace = piece of shit in a red cape.
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 3/22/2011, 4:43 AM
Considering its time AND REEVES was in it...

It was still way better than BORIGINS! ; p


But yeah it did suck a bit haha!
manymade1
manymade1 - 3/22/2011, 5:12 AM
@ Number21 In addition, Batman Forever was bad but not as bad as Superman 3.
ManofSteel23
ManofSteel23 - 3/22/2011, 5:34 AM
to many flaws in all the films,such as superman and lois lane going above the clouds,if you was above the clouds,ud be blown away by the wind,and then a [frick]ing pigeon goes by! where directors in those days stupid or something
hippopotamusprime
hippopotamusprime - 3/22/2011, 5:46 AM
@NERO - Totally what you said. The moment I became aware of the potential of nuclear annihilation, which all the adults I knew had to concede was a distinct possibility, remains a vivid memory for me. CRACKED magazine was making a joke about nuclear apocalypse and I turned to my mom and asked "This can't really happen, right? This is just a joke?" I was five or so, but she had to say it was real. People just a year or two younger than us have no such moments and total thermonuclear war has never been an urgent possibility in their lives.
ScRipt69
ScRipt69 - 3/22/2011, 6:32 AM
My 2yr old son is obsessed with Superman, hey that was always the plan dont get me wrong but having it on everyday to stop him crying removes some of the magic from the movies, Superman IV is his favourite, oh my god people its dreadful, the scene where Nuclear man flies that woman to the moon, yeh to the moon, what didn't they know about the vacuum of space in 87, then superman flies her back, oh shes fine, rentry into our atmosphere no problem. ! no oxygen, why bother! she even falls down like there's gravity pulling her down ......IN SPACE! One power I never knew Superman had was the ability to rebuild the great wall of china with his fricking eye beams, no not heat/telescopic/microscopic vision, rebuild good as new vision. The budget cuts perfectly explains why this film is so so bad. Watch Superman 1 then Superman 4 and tell me its not a disgrace. Its not fun its not entertaining its a joke, even the acting is bad, whats the excuse for the acting. Terrible. I'm okay I'm okay just a little upset...
comicb00kguy
comicb00kguy - 3/22/2011, 6:36 AM
Nero: A rather long post, but you make some great points in it. People who weren't around in(or were too young to remember) the '80s have no idea of the mindset the world had. There were a LOT of movies, books, and songs from that era that were talking about the threat of nuclear war, and the death of the planet that was the push of a button away. It was a very real concern.

This subject led to a lot of great movies, books, and songs, but also some that missed the mark, as Superman IV did. It's interesting to look back on that film. Something just got lost between concept and finished product.
EdGross
EdGross - 3/22/2011, 7:28 AM
But the nuclear threat goes back so much farther. I've always been fascinated by the Cuban Missile Crisis, although I was only 2 at the time. I recently asked my father-in-law what that whole experience was like and he responded, "We went to bed each night not knowing if we were going to wake up the next morning." Pretty frightening stuff.
LFANCH
LFANCH - 3/22/2011, 7:56 AM
Superman taking a kid into space and killing him would have been a great scene.
EdGross
EdGross - 3/22/2011, 8:07 AM
And this after he brought Lacy (or whatever her name was) into space. Great running joke -- first she explodes, then Jeremy explodes, after which Superman flies by the camera and smiles.
NR23
NR23 - 3/22/2011, 8:08 AM
It sucks the way this turned out. Too bad it was Reeve's last Superman film and he brought a subject he really believed in. Yeah, the U.N. scene was good, but it's sad the way the rest turned out. Now, I'm sad thinking about it. :(
Wrigs
Wrigs - 3/22/2011, 8:42 AM
I remember when Superman got pounded INTO the moon by Nuclear Man. When fighting his way out, he thrust his hand through the surface, stuggled to pull himself up and with moon dust pouring off his head and face, he GASPS FOR AIR! Even as a kid I remember thinking, "Aw c'mon!"
marvel72
marvel72 - 3/22/2011, 8:57 AM
superman the movie - cannot fault,classic.

superman 2 - one fault the giant "s" throw,apart from that very good overall.

superman 3 - best bit dark superman vs clark kent in scrapyard,but the rest of the movie was shit.

superman 4 - u.n meeting "rid the world of all nuclear missles" classic line but one line couldn't save this piece of shit,went to the cinema to watch superman 4,it was packed with teenagers.

soon as he delivered that line we all started cheering & clapping,it was so f*cking funny.

superman returns - the plane rescue scene,but the rest is boring shit.
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