AVENGERS: ENDGAME Editors Reveal Alternate Black Widow Death Scene & Other Huge Alternate/Deleted Scenes

AVENGERS: ENDGAME Editors Reveal Alternate Black Widow Death Scene & Other Huge Alternate/Deleted Scenes

Avengers: Endgame editors Jeffrey Ford and Matthew Schmidt have revealed alternate takes on the arrival of Earth's Mightiest Heroes in 2012, Black Widow's death, and how they fooled us with old footage...

By JoshWilding - May 15, 2019 01:05 AM EST
Filed Under: Avengers: Endgame
Avengers: Endgame is well on its way to defeating Avatar at the worldwide box office (it's currently closing in on the $2.5 billion mark), and interviews relating to the movie keep on coming. 

Now, editors Jeffrey Ford and Matthew Schmidt have shed some light on a number of topics, including several unused ideas for how Earth's Mightiest Heroes would return to 2012, an alternate, action-packed death scene for Black Widow, how they reused old, unseen footage, the "I am Iron Man" moment, and much more.

It's clear that a lot of Avengers: Endgame was changed during reshoots, but unlike a lot of movies, these alterations were made for the better and to improve what we ultimately saw on screen.

So, to check out these reveals from the editors, simply hit the "View List" button below! 

Returning To 2012

Assemble


In Avengers: Endgame, the heroes embark on a "time heist" that takes them back to the events of The Avengers in 2012. Surprisingly a decision was not made about where Captain America, Iron Man, The Hulk, and Ant-Man would arrive until post-production. 

"The script had us showing up right when Tony flies through the Leviathan and blows it up from the inside," Ford explains. "But when we screened it for audiences in test screenings we realized it took a few minutes for them to acclimate themselves. It wasn't landing the way we wanted. So we tried other versions."

One cut sequence saw them show up at the moment Hulk smashes Loki but it was eventually decided that the scene where they assembled made most sense. "The version that won was where we come in on the Avengers first assembling, the round-a-round shot," Ford adds. "It was the cleanest and most epic transition back into 'Avengers 1.'"
 

An Alternate Death Scene For Black Widow

Widow


Upon learning what needs to be done in order to retrieve the Soul Stone, Black Widow and Hawkeye engage in an emotional battle which sees them both attempt to make the ultimate sacrifice.

However, the scene was originally very different. "On script and what we first shot was an excellent scene," Schmidt reveals. "Thanos and his soldiers show up on Vormir and a small battle ensues between them and Natasha and Clint. Natasha decides to run off the cliff. Clint tries to stop her while also fending off the attack."

While this version of her death was reportedly met with a positive reaction from test audiences, "It was reshot to make it more intimate between Clint and Natasha, which fully worked in the end version of the movie. We just came up with a better idea, something that serviced Natasha a little bit more."
 

Diving Into The Archives

TDW


We already know that Natalie Portman didn't shoot any new footage for Avengers: Endgame (she did, however, provide a single line of dialogue), but the editors have now revealed how they delved into the archives and reused footage from Thor: The Dark World.

"The shot of Loki throwing his cup in the cell and Thor and Rocket sneak past him in the background, that's a piece of digital negative taken from the dailies of 'The Dark World' that we repurposed," Ford reveals. "The same for the scene of Natalie Portman." Apparently, it was always a priority for the filmmakers to repurpose old scenes so we'd really feel like we were revisiting them.
 

"I Am Iron Man"

Iron-Man-44


Ford has been credited by the Russo Brothers with coming up with the idea of Tony Stark saying "I am Iron Man" during that final confrontation with Thanos, and he's now delved into that scene.
 
"We shot it in a couple of different ways in the initial shoot with different lines of dialogue. Robert [Downey Jr.] also does an improvisation. We did some where he's just silent and one of those was our favorite for a long time. But we decided Thanos needed a moment at the end of the movie where he says something. We thought there's this structure of the movie where Thanos says he's inevitable — he says it in the beginning of the movie and he sees himself say it in the middle of the movie. So we thought this could create this incredible symmetry if we carried that moment forward."
 
The sequence was reportedly filmed during reshoots. Asked how it feels to have received so much attention thanks to Joe and Anthony's remarks in interviews, Ford says: "I've pitched some crazy bad stuff and they shot it down right away. But if you don't say it you never know."
 

No Post-Credits Scene

Iron-Man-445


Avengers: Endgame didn't boast a post-credits scene, but we did hear the noise of Tony Stark creating his armour right at the very end. It turns out that the Easter Egg was actually Kevin Feige's idea.

"We knew early on that we weren't going to have any post credit scenes in this movie," Ford confirms. "Towards the end of our mix, Kevin came in and said, 'I got an idea, and I want to try it, what if we have a little audio flashback at the end with Tony?' So we dug through the elements of 'Iron Man 1' and found the exact piece of sound from the print master."

"We laid it in against the logo and adjusted the rhythm slightly. We showed Kevin and he gave it his blessing. We thought this was a great sendoff."
Honestly, it was actually pretty perfect. 

Many thanks to Business Insider for the quotes used in this post.

Continue reading below for some big reveals from
Avengers: Endgame directors Joe and Anthony Russo!

Why Thanos Failed



As Avengers: Endgame progresses, it quickly becomes clear that Thanos' plan was a failure. Wiping out half of all life didn't create a utopia and the drop in population only really set Earth back by half a century (meaning today's problems would resurface somewhere down the line). 

"Thanos is an egomaniac," Joe explains when that predicament was put to him and the impact it had on how Thanos' story plays out. "He was rejected in his youth when he presented a solution to his home planet and he lost it and probably lost a lot of people he cared about. So years later, he has processed his grief in a way that has convinced him that this is a really good idea."
 
"He's smart enough to know logically that it's like resetting planets like Earth back 50 years. But I think his hope was that the pain of what he had done would teach them to appreciate the resources moving forward. And by the end of the movie, he gets to the point where he's like, "I should have just wiped it all out and started over."
 

A-Force Assemble



"The number of ideas that we want to put into these movies is always far greater than the space available to realize them," the filmmakers explain when asked just how long they were planning to have a group of female superheroes assemble during the final battle with the Mad Titan.

"That's one of the ideas that stayed with us for a long time, and maybe we had tried different versions of it here and there throughout the story, and this was the particular, specific version of it that ended up working for the narrative."
 

A Different, Far More Personal Role For Black Widow



Black Widow met her maker in Avengers: Endgame and as upset as fans have been by this, it felt like a pretty logical way to end her story. Now, Anthony has revealed that he and Joe were originally planning to give the hero a very different role as she dealt with the fallout from the Mad Titan's attack.
 
"One thing that we talked about a lot—and I thought was really profound, but it was almost too large of an idea for us to wrangle, but we did try for a while—is just the idea that one-quarter of all children have no parents. Assuming you started with two parents. So that’s a lot of global orphans. Just the staggering number of that. I believe at one point really early in development, Black Widow was actually leading the organization in D.C. that was in charge of orphans, basically. That was what she was heading up five years later. But yes, it’s fascinating when you start running it down."

 

Was Iron Man Right?



When Iron Man returns to Earth, he wastes no time in making his grievances with Captain America known, and while much of what he says is clearly a result of the trauma he's been through, the Russo's say that this was a way of showing that his stance in Civil War may have been the correct one - to an "extent," at least.

"He was not wrong that there was a great threat coming, and they needed to build a suit of armor around the world, and at what point do civil liberties trump—no pun intended—do civil liberties come before the government’s ability to protect its citizens?" Joe asks.
 
"I think what’s interesting is that to some extent, they had to go through this. There was a sense of destiny to this. They had to go through it to win it. And in a way both he and Cap were right."
 

Why We Didn't See Normal People Return From The Dead



Something we never see in Avengers: Endgame is how normal people react to the dead returning. So, why was that not included?  "Well, when we see those things in movies, I just feel like I disconnect from them, because I don’t know those people," Joe says. "And so we always try to find a way to tell that story through the characters that we have and that we care about."
 
"And as directors, we’d rather direct a scene between Elizabeth Olsen and Jeremy Renner than with Extra 4 and Extra 5," He concludes, fully justifying this decision. 
 

Stan Lee's Legacy

Stan-Lee


"Stan was a ball of energy—very entertaining. He had the same joke every time he came to the set, which was, 'Why do I only get one line?'" Joe recalled of the late, great comic book creator.
 
"The first time we’d ever worked with him was on Winter Soldier," Anthony added. "He showed up just cracking jokes, talking to everybody, shaking hands. To see everybody light up — when Stan was doing these cameos, there were always twice as many people on set. Everybody wanted to be there — we were in awe of him."
 

Time-Travel Confusion



For weeks now, fans have been debating the mechanics of time-travel in Avengers: Endgame and the filmmakers have once again attempted to explain how they perceive it. "Here’s the most important thing about time travel: It doesn’t exist," Anthony joked.

"According by the rules of the movie, as stated by the Hulk and by The Ancient One, we go to great pains to tell you that Back to the Future is bullshit," Joe added.
 
"If you’re trying to change the rules of time travel in a movie, unless you are super clear and point out that these are not the rules from Back to the Future, people just won’t understand it. We learned about this after three test screenings. We had to go back and add in more jokes about Back to the Future so that people would take our multiverse theory seriously."
 

Explaining The Multiverse



"The Hulk says if you’re in the present and you go back to the past, you cannot affect the present because it has already occurred. That now becomes your past. Right?," said Joe Russo. "And if you’re [currently] in the past, this is now your present. And anything you do in that time shift would create a multiverse reality. It will create a new future, but it’s not going to affect your past."
 
“But to be honest, talking about time travel is very similar to talking about god," said Anthony. "Everyone’s going to have a different understanding of what it is." Joe agreed: "At the end of the day, any thinking about time travel breaks down. What we tried to do was make sure the rules we were playing with [in regard to] time travel were honored by the plot of the movie."
 

Iron Man Had To Die



"In a way, Tony was always fated to die," Joe says when asked about Iron Man's heartbreaking fate in the movie. "He was a futurist, always haunted by what was around the corner. [He went from] someone with an ego to someone who was completely selfless in the end. So that seemed like a very noble trajectory."

"Initially, he didn’t say anything when he was facing off with Thanos — he just gets the stones and snaps. But we were in the edit room and it just felt a little flat," Anthony adds, crediting editor Jeff Ford with one key change. "He's edited more Marvel movies than anybody. He said, ‘What about 'I am Iron Man?’ And we were like, that’s it!"
 

Captain America Is Worthy



Arguably one of the best moments in Avengers: Endgame comes when Steve Rogers finally wields Mjolnir. Asked why it was then that Captain America was finally deemed "worthy," Joe said: "Do you think he was worthy in Ultron, but he just didn’t pick up the hammer so he didn’t hurt Thor’s feelings? Because clearly Thor’s very sensitive."

That's something Joss Whedon also alluded to when Avengers: Age of Ultron was released.
 

Cutting Hawkeye From Avengers: Infinity War



The movie's writers recently revealed that the opening scene with Hawkeye was originally going to take place in Avengers: Infinity War and now Joe has elaborated on why that was moved.
 
"We were originally going to include that at the end of "Infinity War." Hawkeye wasn't going to be in the film, and then at the end when Thanos snaps his fingers, we were going to cut to black and then come up on a family picnic at [Clint] Barton's (Hawkeye's) house. We wanted the audience to be confused. "Why are we here, what am I watching?" And then after Barton's family slowly disappeared we'd cut back to Bucky. We tried it, but we found that it was too jarring of a concept. So I thought, why don't we remove it from the body of this movie and move it to open the next movie. It's a great way after a year to remind you of the pain that everyone was feeling."

 

Why We Got A Five-Year Time-Jump



The moment "Five Years Later" pops up on screen, it becomes clear that the MCU as we know it is gone and the ramifications of Thanos' actions have been felt in a significant way. "We wanted something that allowed them to change enough," Joe explains when asked about the time-jump. "We needed enough time for them to process their grief that it would alter them as people."
 
"They accepted it and made choices about how they were going to proceed with their future, and that changes people. Clearly, Banner has changed dramatically."
 
Anthony adds: "It gave Tony enough time to have a daughter he can interact with."
 
"Thor became increasingly depressed and isolated. So one year wouldn't have allowed for quite the effect and five makes it feel more permanent to the audience," Joe concludes.
 

Why The Falcon Is Captain America



At the end of Avengers: Endgame, the MCU has a new Captain America in the form of Sam Wilson. Why, though, was he a better choice to wield the shield than Bucky? "We definitely would sit around and talk about what made the best story moving forward, and Sam just always felt like the right recipient," Joe confirms. "After all, Bucky is damaged."
 
"And Sam seemed to most share [Steve Rogers'] qualities," Anthony adds. "When they first met, the bond between those two characters just spoke to a symmetry in their moral nature."
 

Loki's Future



The God of Mischief died at the hands of Thanos in Avengers: Infinity War but he escaped with the Tesseract when we caught up with his past self in 2012, so what does that mean for Captain America's attempt to fix the timeline by returning the Stones? 

"Loki, when he teleports away with the Time Stone, would create his own timeline," Joe confirms. "It gets very complicated, but it would be impossible for [Cap] to rectify the timeline unless he found Loki. The minute that Loki does something as dramatic as take the Space Stone, he creates a branched reality."
 
"We're dealing with this idea of multiverses and branched realities, so there are many realities," Anthony says, further reiterating plans to explore the Marvel Multiverse moving forward.
 

Captain America's Return



Despite conflicting remarks from Avengers: Endgame's writers, the filmmakers stand firm with the idea that Captain America created a new timeline when he returned to the past to find Peggy Carter and grow old. Now, Joe has reiterated that "he would have to come back to this timeline in order to hand off the shield."

"There's a question of, how did this separate timeline Cap come to reappear in this timeline and why?" Anthony added and when Joe was asked if that's a story for another day, he said: "Correct." In other words, it definitely sounds like Steve Rogers' story in the MCU isn't quite over just yet. 
 

Gamora May Have Been Dusted



At the end of Avengers: Endgame, Star-Lord is showing looking for Gamora. The 2014 version of the character embraced her heroic side despite still being under her father's thumb, and seemingly went on the run after his forces were wiped out by Iron Man.

However, there's nothing to say she wasn't dusted along with the rest of them according to Joe. 

"We don't know whether she was dusted or whether she survived. That's probably a question that "Guardians [3]" will answer," he teased before Anthony added: "Quill doesn't know either."
 
Many thanks to Business Insider, The Hollywood Reporter, and Slate for the quotes used here.
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Kurne
Kurne - 5/15/2019, 2:02 AM
Although I liked what they chose in the film, I think it would have been just as good if not better if they used the version where Clint and Natasha get ambushed by Thanos. I understand them wanting it to be more personal, but I feel like we already got that (on Vormir) with Thanos and Gamora.
TanukiTrooper
TanukiTrooper - 5/15/2019, 2:29 AM
@Kurne - The scene we got was a much better reflection of the Thanos and Gamora scene. It pretty shows the key difference between heroes and villains. Villains are self serving and willing to sacrifice those they love to get what they want, where heroes are selfless and sacrifice themselves for those they love. Having the army there would have made it too busy, distract from the theme and lessen the emotional impact of the sacrifice.
Chewtoy
Chewtoy - 5/15/2019, 6:04 AM
@Kurne - it probably would have bothered me that Clint had an important clue (that Thanos in the past was somehow on to them), but of course it would be more important to deal with Natasha’s death and have everyone react to it upon his return. So then you either have Clint just never mention it, or you have it come up in a conversation that can’t really go anywhere (“Why would Thanos be there in 2014?” “Beats me”).

I just like the cleaner version of the Avengers having no reason to suspect anything, myself.
hummingbird68
hummingbird68 - 5/15/2019, 2:20 AM
Congratulations to Avengers:Endgame reaching 2.5 billion dollars - amazing achievement, lets keep it going :)

There are lots of little things that'd I'd change about the movie, but the one main one is that Black Widow really didn't get a funeral - would it of really detracted from Stark's funeral to of had a few flowers and words said about her, keeping the flame burning during the 5 years post snap. Maybe there could of been a group talk about Natasha's contribution since the initial forming of the Avengers.

Aside from this (to me glaring) omission from an already very good script - I hope Endgame continues to get the accolades it deserves.

Being a big believer in karma, I quietly hope Endgame passes Avatar and Cameron has to once again (professionally - you know t must of hurt) congratulate Feige and perhaps the directors this time around.
TanukiTrooper
TanukiTrooper - 5/15/2019, 2:38 AM
@hummingbird68 - Clint and Wanda did have a few lines addressing Nat's and Vision's deaths while at Stark's funeral. Nat had a big conversation about her in the middle of the film immediately after she died and Wanda kicked Thanos' butt for Vision. So both characters deaths were served well. Same couldn't be said for Loki ;P
RageDriver2401
RageDriver2401 - 5/15/2019, 2:35 AM
Man I'd love to see all the alternate scenes and behind the scenes brainstorming in extras.
dracula
dracula - 5/15/2019, 3:15 AM
This whole year is the end of eras for comic books
The Infinity Saga of the MCU

The end of my favorite show Gotham

Arrow will be ending with the Crisis On Infinite Earths, ending this era of the Arrowverse


thats not even counting some of the non comic book shows like Game Of Thrones

love that show as well
bkmeijer2
bkmeijer2 - 5/15/2019, 5:20 AM
@dracula - I don't watch Gotham, but is that shot of Batman the only shot of Batman at all? Or do we get to see him do some actual crimefighting
Nightwing1015
Nightwing1015 - 5/15/2019, 6:33 AM
@MalseMarcel - Sadly we don't. The producers lied about that. We only see glimpses of him in the episode.

Love Gotham but that finale really sucked. Smallville's was so much better. I haven't really thought about Gotham since it ended though. I haven't missed it. So maybe it'll be one of those shows that's better at the time.
Beerus
Beerus - 5/15/2019, 11:54 AM
@MalseMarcel @Nightwing1015 - The problem is that I think they wanted to, but just couldn't. The final season of Gotham felt extremely rushed to me like they originally planned to do the usual 22 episode season, but had to scrap/rush through things when they were cut down to (originally 10, and never fully recovered when they were bumped up to 12) and it shows.

Like they hint at Firefly/Mr Freeze during the first episode, but never do anything with them outside of that. Plus a ton more things they skimmed over, but I don't want to get into it.
dracula
dracula - 5/15/2019, 2:19 PM
@MalseMarcel - Kind of, we get a scene after a battle, showing batman looking over stuff, we only see him hands, then gordon comes in, Batman escapes and we see him jump out a window from behind, then he saves Gordon and his daughter from the joker, but he only uses batarrangs
DoubleD
DoubleD - 5/15/2019, 3:19 AM
With Black Widows death I have NO interest in Black Widow prequel movie next year.
dracula
dracula - 5/15/2019, 3:22 AM
@DoubleD - Yeah she really should have gotten her own trilogy during the infinity era, like the other main avengers. but at least we are getting one, although serious should have gotten it before Captain Marvel
DoubleD
DoubleD - 5/15/2019, 3:27 AM
@dracula - Agreed !
DaHyro
DaHyro - 5/15/2019, 7:21 AM
I think falcon is the “safe” choice to be the next Cap.

Bucky was such a unique and interesting choice for the next Cap. Is he damaged? Yes. However, him taking on the mantle could have been his way of healing. His redemption. Hell, that right there could be a trilogy on its own.

Falcon is such a small, unimportant side character, too. The only time he was really given any depth was in TWS. In 2014
NightBoyWonder
NightBoyWonder - 5/15/2019, 8:38 AM

Something we never see in Avengers: Endgame is how normal people react to the dead returning. So, why was that not included? "Well, when we see those things in movies, I just feel like I disconnect from them, because I don’t know those people," Joe says. "And so we always try to find a way to tell that story through the characters that we have and that we care about."

"And as directors, we’d rather direct a scene between Elizabeth Olsen and Jeremy Renner than with Extra 4 and Extra 5," He concludes, fully justifying this decision.



....sigh.... okay I get it, I really do, but this is a gripe of mine that I have with a lot of the modern day CBM is the lack of focus on extras, AKA the world around these heroes and how every day people are affected. It’s something that’s greatly under appreciated. And I disagree with the feeling of disconnect when we see that in film. Idk that may be just me, but seeing extras react in moments like that. It provides for more effective world building. And this doesn’t detract from how amazing Endgame is. I think it’s dangerous to get too wrapped up in the “personal” aspects when saving the entire universe is a lot more bigger than that. I would’ve really appreciated to see how people reacted to seeing loved ones even if it was only a few seconds or during the ending montage
MyCoolYoung
MyCoolYoung - 5/15/2019, 8:49 AM
@ItsMilesMorales - honestly would have loved to see some of that but the fact that we got all gloom five years later was a bit jarring for me.

We did get them in the support group reacting as well as the kid not wanting to talk about it to Scott though
Zappy
Zappy - 5/15/2019, 9:52 AM
So just flat out character death spoilers in the headlines now? That's what you're doing? WHY DO YOU HAVE "SPOILER" WARNINGS ON OTHER HEADLINES IF YOU GIVE AWAY MAJOR CHARACTER DEATHS IN ADJACENT HEADLINES ANYWAY!? This site gets more amateurish and garbage-tier all the time.
Thanson
Thanson - 5/15/2019, 12:50 PM
@Zappy - I was just going to point that out. Couldn't agree more. Seriously Josh, that headline is very unprofessionl. Believe it or not, there are some people who probably haven't seen the movie yet. You need to fix it immediately.
LonelyRanger
LonelyRanger - 5/15/2019, 7:06 PM
I have been seeing spoilers most places now, including the TV spots.
Since the Russos "officially" lifted the spoiler ban on May 6th it's been fair game. They said, at that point, the movie had been out for two weeks & those who want to talk about it should be able to.
I know, it sucks! You just have to stay away from sites such as this, or, at the very least, tread lightly until you see the movie. It's still a minefield out there!
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