Answers I Require to be 100% Satisfied with The Avengers

Answers I Require to be 100% Satisfied with The Avengers

While I am immensely excited about next summer's little Avengers flick, there are certain questions I have regarding the Marvel Cinematic Universe in all its cohesive glory.

Editorial Opinion
By HeroKiller - Nov 02, 2011 01:11 PM EST
Filed Under: Other

While I am immensely excited about next summer's little Avengers flick, there are certain questions I have regarding the Marvel Cinematic Universe in all its cohesive glory. I have dreamed of this movie for literally as long as I can recall, since collecting the first series of Marvel trading cards in 1990 and becoming familiar with the rich cast of characters. And while I recognize that the comics universe is chock full of glaring inconsistencies, I, like many of you, hoped that this brave new world of Marvel Cinema would learn from these mistakes, especially since they are making a billion and a half dollars off us in movie tickets, DVD sales, action figures, and subsequent comic book sales boosts. It is worth noting that I am not by any means nit-picking for the sake of nit-picking. I am merely so submersed into this brave attempt at a connected universe that when I spend money and time appreciating the intricacies, the equal, opposite, and inevitable effect is also noticing the glaring inaccuracies. Here, I submit my first article for CBM, after having been a reader for over a year. Kevin Feige, I hold thee accountable for the answers to these questions of logic:


1. In Iron Man 1, Agent Caulson and Pepper discuss the tediousness of Strategic Homeland Intervention, Enforcement and Logistics Division as the secret organizations's name. The implication is that this is a recently-formed organization. Yet IM2 and Captain America indicate that the agency has been around for some time(Howard Stark helped form it years prior). By the end of IM1, Caulson declares that they are now called SHIELD. Was this the first time the acronym had really been used? This smells of a writing inconsistency that cannot be rectified, unless the answer is that the agency was only recently named after decades in existence. Which seems unlikely.

2. Iron Man 2 post-credit scene shows Caulson, the apparent connecting thread through most of these films, standing over the site of Thor's hammer. "We've found it." Terrific, Son of Caul, but how did you know to look for it in the first place? From information we gather in Thor, SHIELD is unaware of who Thor is, as evidenced by his interrogation and subsequent surprise of Thor's power display. Was SHIELD privy to knowledge that Caulson was not on a clearance level to possess? This paradox can, and more importantly, SHOULD be explained through clever writing.

3. This next question stems from the comics, and may in fact have been answered in the source material(I'm not well-versed in Thor comic history...if anyone else can cite an example of this, please enlighten me). Loki, son of Laufey, is a Frost Giant adopted by Odin. Yet he possesses god-like powers of invisibility, illusion, the inexplicable unrevealed ability to cross the 9 realms undetected, and general dickery(trickery) capable of battling Thor, who himself is able to fell Frost Giants by the dozen. How did he come to have these abilities when his genetic heritage should be limited to blue skin and moisture temperature manipulation? I can assume that he maybe was granted these powers by Odin himself, but why would the King of Gods grant such obviously deceptive power to an adoptive son already tainted by his secret lineage? Isn't this just asking for trouble? Doesn't this cast doubt upon Odin's wisdom? That, I cannot accept. Before Loki takes his power and revenge to the next level in The Avengers, I'd like answers, please.

4. Here's another one that will be difficult to explain away, therefore will likely be ignored: The background footage of Hulk's college campus rampage in IM2 suggests that Incredible Hulk takes place before IM2. Yet SHIELD, reluctant to allow Stark into the Avenger Initiative due to his recklessness at the end of IM2, hire him as a consultant(as evidenced in the one-shot starring our favorite SHIELD operative Caulson) to approach T-Bolt Ross about this "team" "they're" putting together. Timeline error. Which also raises the question: Why would they ever consider Hulk as an Avenger, who is the epitome of uncontrollable power, when they have such reservations about Stark?

5. In Captain America, we see the titular hero crash in the Arctic in the film's climax. He is frozen there until SHIELD apparently finds him and brings him to New York. His shield was with him the entire time. Yet, in an easter egg backgroud shot in IM1, and then featured prominently in IM2, the shield is somehow in Tony's possession. This is feasible when you consider that Howard Stark designed the shield. But are there 2 shields? If so, this is somewhat disappointing to any real Cap fan, as his shield in the comics is a one-of-a-kind prototype made from the rare metals vibranium and adamantium. I'm afraid that with this one, neither answer will be wholly satisfactory.


Well, that's all I've got for now. I welcome any comments, criticisms, additions, or explanations you all may have. These items aside, I am still very much looking forward to May 4, 2012, when many of our fanboy dreams will come to life on the silver screen.

Until next time,

-Herokiller

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Hellsing
Hellsing - 11/2/2011, 1:55 PM
the shield is a proto type, and as to why some one would rather have the hulk on there side, well would rather fight him. And as far as I can tell from the footage shown at NYC SHIELD want Banner not the Hulk. And the whole SHIELD thing is inconsistent, it was just meant to be cock tease, I doubt they ever thought the Avengers movie would happen.
Hellsing
Hellsing - 11/2/2011, 1:57 PM
and the whole loki thing I guess you'll have to go and read the comics and find out. No offence or anything these are nitpicks, I highly doubt all of them are going to be answered. So your not going to be satisfied
niksyn4
niksyn4 - 11/2/2011, 2:03 PM
Loki learned how to use magic when he was being raised. I haven't read much of the older Thor comics (only reading the Mighty Thor and Journey Into Mystery now). In "Thor: Tales of Asgard", Loki is seen practicing his magic and I believe he had a master of some sort who taught him.
niksyn4
niksyn4 - 11/2/2011, 2:10 PM
Also, the Cap Shield in Stark's lab could have been an old prototype that his dad made that he just had lying around. He could have found it in his dad's lab a long time ago and just held on to it since he, if the comic history is left intact in this regard, would have known about Cap since he was a child and remembered him as a great war hero who died protecting his country.
niksyn4
niksyn4 - 11/2/2011, 2:11 PM
Also, there could have been an incarnation of SHIELD prior to the actual development of SHIELD and what the letters represent. Howard Stark, and whoever else helped him, could have formed a cabal of like minded individuals who were operating in a similar fashion as SHIELD but obviously on a less grander scale.
blvdnoise
blvdnoise - 11/2/2011, 2:25 PM
Maybe the shield depicted in IM1 and IM2 is something H.Stark was making for Bucky aka (The Winter Soldier) at a later date in time.. Ehh? Ehh?? lol

But I'm just going to nod along to everthing @Intruder says and just give the occasional "YEAH" lol
lokisilvertongue
lokisilvertongue - 11/2/2011, 2:54 PM
the shield came from howard starks lock box that was given to tony during iron man 2. I took that as being one of the many shield prototypes that howard had worked on, maybe trying to recreate the shield that was lost with captain america.
lokisilvertongue
lokisilvertongue - 11/2/2011, 2:58 PM
oh and as for loki being immortal his father is still king of jotenheim, centuries after his war with odin so they jotun have lives as long as the asgardians.
lokisilvertongue
lokisilvertongue - 11/2/2011, 3:05 PM
yea i agree with intruder there, multiple explosions went of in the hospital how did he get them all into the building that has staff 24/7
golden123
golden123 - 11/2/2011, 3:33 PM
@Intruder: The answer to your Two-Face/Maroni inconsistency resides in the film, beleive it or not. When we see Sal Maroni get into the car you can see, at the far lefthand side of the screen for a second, Two-Face's arm reach around the chest of the man, who was supposed to be sitting next to Sal, and Two-Face pulls this man off the screen. It is to be inferred that Two-Face then proceeded to act like that man and get into the car right before Maroni. Sal Maroni, who isn't paying close attention to what's going on around him, doesn't notice that the person, getting inside the car on the opposite side, isn't who it's supposed to be. Next time you watch The Dark Knight, remember to pay attention to the scene where Sal get's into the car. If you don't see what i'm talking about rewind it and watch again. It's at the left hand side of the screen.
TheWingedWonder
TheWingedWonder - 11/2/2011, 5:09 PM
@Intruder
Haha, I never actually sat down and thought about TDK like you have....I don't know if I'll be able to enjoy it anymore :P

@HeroKiller
Glad to see you were able to come up with some stuff to write about :}
MrReese
MrReese - 11/2/2011, 5:31 PM
HowardDuck1138
HowardDuck1138 - 11/2/2011, 5:46 PM
Smuggling bombs into the hospital actually wouldn't be that much of a stretch. I have relatives that work in hospitals after hours and it gets dead sometimes. Yeah there's security, but in theory it wouldn't be too hard to sneak things through. There are back doors that are often unguarded and zero cameras in the parking garages. I realize a major city like Gotham would have more traffic 24 hours a day, but it still is not impossible, especially if Joker had a goon or two on the security team.
Ha1frican
Ha1frican - 11/2/2011, 6:09 PM
1: just a way to introduce shield
2: in thor it is seen on the news and people found it before shield
3:idk about the comic but the movie says their powers are actually technology
4:Hulk takes place at the same time as IM2 not before, the scene on the news is live
5:if it were vibranium how did it break? most people think its just a replica souvenir
95
95 - 11/2/2011, 7:47 PM
Yeah, whatever one else said.
What @Intruder said about your 5 questions.
And what @golden123 said about TDK's plot logic.

Except for @MrReese
Were you trying to spark a war? lol
Funny thing is: everyone on this thread is rational.


HowardDuck1138
HowardDuck1138 - 11/2/2011, 8:41 PM
@HeroKiller, what other questions do you have? I think they've been covered. I will admit, I agree somewhat with #1. Even if they've been around for decades, the dialogue does give the feeling that they are newly formed. Even going with the argument that they just changed names, Coulson does act like they're just starting up. Maybe they've been out of commission for a while?

As for #2, Coulson may not have known that it was Thor's hammer, but SHIELD surely knew that something crashed. I think the "Found it" line is in reference to the crash site.

For #3, Loki learned a lot growing up. Hiddleston has even stated that he's learned more between Thor and Avengers, so it's probable that Loki just picks up a lot behind the scenes. I believe his skin color is due to a spell by Odin, but I could be mistaken.

For the IM/Hulk scene, that's easy. The final scene takes place after both movies, with "The Consultant" taking place shortly before that scene.

The Cap shield is presumably an attempt at a reconstruction or improvement on the original. Tony's dad did design it after all. The one in the first movie could have been a prototype, a toy, or something Tony was cooking up. We don't know. The one in IM2 was clearly from Howard's chest, so it was probably a prototype or replica.
HowardDuck1138
HowardDuck1138 - 11/2/2011, 9:52 PM
@Hero, I understand. I never thought about it from a non-comic fan's point of view. Most of the Easter eggs (Cap's shield, etc...) are in there for the fans, and they don't explain them for the newcomers. Typically, fans are the only ones that care.

Loki? Yes that should have been explained a little better for those unfamiliar with the comics.

Most casual movie goers don't pick apart movies like all of us do, so things like the SHIELD name and the chronology of certain scenes typically is only discussed by us.

I agree that they need to clear some issues up. I am ok with them leaving some things unexplained, or left for the fans to put together. Like I said, casual audiences won't care, and newcomers will dig around and learn.
SUPASEGO
SUPASEGO - 11/2/2011, 10:36 PM
Hey Herokiller, nice read..... its not nitpicking... My friends and I shared alot ideas as to why there were many inconsistencies in IM, IM2 and HULK.... We just concluded that the directors, writers and producer weren't yet on the same page until after IM2. I personally feel that some of these Marvel Avengers Movie including their individual character movies should be made all at once and then divided into separate flicks. And then released appropriately. Then timeline issues wouldn't be there. I've been basically satisfied with these Marvel movies so far. My only issue is basically the licensing problems that Fox & Sony have caused. I think the quality of the films could be in jeopardy if Marvel/Disney aren't able to use certain characters or their names because Fox or Sony own them. And then Marvel has to circumvent the issue by making something up. I just can't wait til May 2012!!!
Paulley
Paulley - 11/3/2011, 1:59 AM
1. i would like that answered too

2. They tracked a similar energy source to the cosmic cube as both came from asgard

3. in the comic loki is magic... but i guess in this MCU loki uses advanced tech.

4. Watch THE CONSULTANT again... Tony is sent to recruit ABOMINATION (at UN's request via SHIELD).. SHIELD not actually wanting Blonsky sent Tony cus they know Ross cant stand him............... the whole point of that short was to fix that error.

5. The shield Tony is making in the Iron Man film is the Photonic Energy Shield.... look at the IM 2 blu-ray features that explain this or go here:
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/BritishAvengers/news/?a=44941
Orphix
Orphix - 11/3/2011, 6:18 AM
1. A simple piece of writing will solve that. All you have to infer is that beaucracy at the top have suggested dropping the acronym 'SHIELD' when dealing with public, etc and go with the full name. By the end of IM coulson gets fed up with it.

2. This issue has always raised more questions than it answers. But remember Fury mentions the "southwest region" as well as sending coulson off to NM before Thor is banished from Asgard!

3. Not sure how they will explain his powers - he is simply and advanced tech alien. Interesing that Odin made he change from blue to pink as soon as he picked him up as a baby.

4. As Paulley.

5. As Paulley.
ROBBEATZZZ
ROBBEATZZZ - 11/3/2011, 6:59 AM
SEEMS LIKE ALL OF YOUR ???'S ARE ANSWERED...

BUT TO GET A IDEA FOR THE MARVEL MOVIE U TIMELINE...

CHECK THIS OUT "ORPHIX" SHOWED ME THIS SOME TIME AGO..

http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/5395/A-Marvel-Cinematic-Universe-Timeline/
svchoudhry
svchoudhry - 11/3/2011, 7:15 AM
In IM2, didn't Howard say that he was too ahead of his time, or something like that? But at the end of CA, he had the cosmic cube, wouldn't that be an infinite amount of energy to make whatever type of weapons he wanted?
ROBBEATZZZ
ROBBEATZZZ - 11/3/2011, 7:38 AM
@svchoudhry...I THINK THE ARC REACTOR CAME FROM THE CUBE..DONT THINK HOWARD COULDNT REALLY TAP INTO IT...THATS WHY OBIDAH STANE DIDNT THINK MUCH OF THE ARC REACTOR..UNTIL TONY MASTERED IT..HE EVENTUALLY USED IT FOR HIS SUITS...THINK ABOUT THE HYDRA BLASTERS IN CAP..DONT THAY SOUNT SIMILAR TO IRONMAN'S REPULSER RAY?!

CHECK THIS OUT I HAD AN ARTICLE ON IThttp://www.comicbookmovie.com/comic_news/news/?a=43133
ROBBEATZZZ
ROBBEATZZZ - 11/3/2011, 7:43 AM
*THEY SOUND*
svchoudhry
svchoudhry - 11/3/2011, 9:48 AM
@ROB thanks! Good call!
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 11/3/2011, 9:52 AM
1) Coulson was just being coy with pepper. SHIELD actually isn't in CA: TFA at all. its the SSR.(correct me if i'm wrong) which would later become SHIELD. Coulson had no reason to give Pepper any more details than he did.

2) "we found it" - "it" being whatever they they're intruments picked up as falling from the sky. Plus, who knows, maybe higher-ups and SHIELD DO know about Thor. The Red Skull certainly seemed to know something about their culture. and us fans know the connection between HYDRA, SHIELD, SSR ect...

3)Intruder got that one.

4)They actually sent Stark to recruit Blonsky. SHEILD wanted Blonsky for the initiative because Blonsky was a military man. Coulson and his partner we're like [frick] that. so they send Stark, a man that ross hates, to consult with him resulting in ross denying them access to Blonsky. which was really coulson's goal all along. As to why they need banner(even tho we all know), i think that was revealed in that footage of black widow and banner conversing the village. this WILL be explained in the avengers.

5) Tony was trying to build his own. hence why it was half complete.

You don't need these to be answered! they've already been answered for you my man! :)

(i want to say the same thing to LOST fans haha)
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 11/3/2011, 9:53 AM
yeah everyone pretty much got this - gotta read the thread before posting lol
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