A Response to Max Landis - Is Rey a Mary Sue?

A Response to Max Landis - Is Rey a Mary Sue?

Recently, Max Landis has been getting a lot of attention claiming that Rey's character is a Mary Sue in The Force Awakens. I am not so sure that he is 100% correct on this.

Editorial Opinion
By DemonHunter - Dec 22, 2015 09:12 AM EST
Filed Under: Star Wars
I am sure many of you have seen this video floating around the internet by now:


Now the term Mary Sue is basically "slapped on a character who is important in the story, possesses unusual physical traits, and has an irrelevantly over-skilled or over-idealized nature."

While Max may be on to something, I think he is very wrong in his assertions. There seems to be a unfortunate assumption that in order to use the force that you HAVE to have X amount of Jedi training. Or you need to have XYZ skills in order to be considered badarse and not a trope.

If Rey is a Mary Sue, in my opinion, Luke is totally a Gary Stu too, just a more developed one (After all he has three movies to be devloped). So was Anakin Skywalker for that matter. While Rey has not had her big defeat yet, she still suffered losses.

Twice she was taken down by Kylo Ren and left unconscious. But I guess Max dont count that as "high stakes" because she didnt get her hand cut off?



Since Max made the comparison to Luke, I think he needs to look at how Luke and Rey are vastly different in respects to their orgin. Rey was forced to survive on Jakku on her own. That entails SAVING HERSELF BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE WOULD. This is why she was able to fight of those 2 goons while Finn looked on in the distance. You would have to be crazy to assume that on a planet like Jakku, she never had someone try to take her stuff or steal her portions before. Why do you think she brings that staff everywhere??? To DEFEND HERSELF. We can make the basic assumption that her expierence growing up on Jakku, makes her one tough cookie. Even Han Solo admits this when he gives her the blaster. He KNOWS she can handle herself, and her skills convinces him to offer her a job.

Luke Skywalker on the other hand was a farm boy who probably never saw a fight in his life, nor met any other aliens, like Rey had. Sure you could make the arguement that at some point he may have ran into a Tusken Raider before which is why be knew to bring his rifle. But given his Uncle's expierence with them, I doubt he would let Luke go anywhere close to a Tusken villiage.

The point is that Rey has more skills to bring to the table in her first outing than Luke ever did. Is that unreasonable for her expierience? I dont think so.

Max makes the arguement that Rey someone knows how to pilot the Falcon. If you remember in a New Hope. Luke makes a claim that he could pilot the Falcon too. He makes a throwaway line that he "is not such a bad pilot." and we just take his word for it. We NEVER see him pilot anything except for the X-Wing at the end of the movie. I garuntee you that Luke had NEVER gotten in to a space battle of that scale going up agains the empire. His only expierence is "shooting wamp rats back home". In some of the graphic novels it is explained that the main reason Luke was even allowed to go on the Death Star attack was that his friend Biggs vouched for him, despite Luke dying several times in the flight simulator.

I do not believe there is much of a learning curve in flying different ships in the Star Wars universe, even Anakin Skywalker from Episode I was able to jump into a Naboo fighter and survive a space battle. Qui-Gon asserts that Anakins ability was due to his Jedi reflexes because he was strong in the force. Why can't we give Rey the same credit?



Speaking of the force, Rey has a MUCH MUCH MUCH stronger connection to the force than we have ever seen in any of the films. I suppose that Max does not understand the title of the film, "The Force Awakens". The entire movie is about her realizing she has AMAZING power inside of her.

When Rey touches the lightsaber for the first time, she had a MAJOR vision. Not even Luke or Anakin had such a powerful response to an event. She was able to see things on multiple different planets, involving several different people spanning decades. She also was able to hear the voices of the likes of Obi-Wan and Yoda. (In fact, Obi-wan says "this is your first steps..." the same line he told Luke when Luke was training with the lightsaber against the remote).

Rey's extremely strong connection to the Force is why Kylo Ren was freaked out when she resisted him. Even Snoke was impressed. I don't know how much more clear I can be so I will be very blunt.  REY. HAS. MORE. RAW. POWER. THAN. KYLO REN. DOES.
In fact, I believe that Rey is quite possible stronger than Vader or Luke ever was. She just isn't able to control her power....yet. (Ergo the ending sequence of the film)

But that's the special thing about the Force. She didn't need to control it. She allowed herself to be used as a willing vessel by the force.

In Episode IV Obi-Wan explains this to Luke...

Ben: "Remember a Jedi can feel the force flowing through him."
Luke: "You mean it can control your actions?"
Ben: "Partially, it also obeys your commands."

*Interrupted by Han*
Ben: "I suggest you try it again Luke, but this time let go of your conscious self and act on instinct."


This is EXACTLY what Rey was doing when she fought against Kylo. Unless you completely forgot Kylo STOPPED HIS ATTACK BECAUSE HE WANTED TO SWAY HER (thus showing that if he did want to kill her, he could have). When he mentions that he can show her the ways of the force, Rey has an epiphany. Rey lets go of her conscious self, closes her eyes, the music swells and she allows the force to control her actions.

This is why the Jedi are always saying, "May the Force be with you." Rey's connection with the force was MUCH stronger than Kylo and this is why he was defeated.

While Kylo Ren clearly showed his mastery in using the force (I mean he freaking froze a blaster bolt in mid air), he was conflicted (due to what happened with his father), wounded (he was shot by Chewie's bow caster, which had been blowing away armored stormtroopers the entire movie, so the fact that he didn't die from that shows how strong he is, he also had part of his arm wounded by a lucky strike by Finn) , and his connecton with the force not in balance. Kylo was afraid.

Rey on the other hand, is problably the ONLY person in the entire Star Wars saga that was completely in tune with the Force. Back when she found the lightsaber, Maz explain how the force was calling to her, she just needed to "Let it in". Very similiar to how Obiwan instructed Luke, when he was approaching the target on the Death Star. Kylo Ren was blinded by emotion, rage, and fear which he mistakenly believed would make him stronger with the Darkside. Rey was calm, focused and willing to allow  the force to guide her.



Does this make her more of a Mary Sue? Perhaps, but only if you do not understand the nature of the force. When you are one with the force, when you have such a deep connection with all living things, when you allow your destiny to be controlled, the you are going to exibit abilities and powers that are greater than what anyone has seen before. Is this some sort of Ex Machina? Maybe, but this is how Star Wars has always been written. Targeting computer can't hit the target? Just let the force do all the work.

Rey's ability with the Force has nothing to do with being a female, nor any sort of special training, not her being a Mary Sue. In the 2nd trailer for The Force Awakens we have heard a familiar quote "The Force is strong in my family, my Father had it, I have it,  my sister has it, and now you have that power too." Im pretty sure this is why Rey has her abilities. It runs in the family. (Now I know its not confirmed that Rey is a Skywalker, and this line was not in the movie, but the implicatoins are clear.

I order for Rey to be a Mary Sue, her abilities would have to come out of the blue and contradict her expierence within the story, however, at every turn in the film, it is firmly established that she was able to do what she did because of the force and not because she knows what she is doing.

A perfect example of this is when Rey accidently lets the monsters out on the ship. That is her being inexpierence. She may be tech savy and know enough about ships to rewire a few things, but she is still prone to make mistakes. However when Finn is taken, she uses her instincts (something the force enhances) and closes the doors just in time to save her friend.

While at a distence some of the things Rey does may seem a little Mary Suesque, but when you look at how the Force has been portrayed in the films, and how every thing Rey does in the Force Awakens is consistent with previous parts of the saga, its pretty obvious that she is not a Mary Sue.

I will say that "The Force" may be considered a huge, cop out, but again, that is how Star Wars works. I mean a 9 year old boy, aka the ONLY human to ever pod race, wins one of the biggest races ever was because of the Force. Is PRETTY outlandish, I dont see why people let that slide, but Rey being able to defeat a weakened Kylo Ren because of the Force is suddenly a deal breaker.

If you want to say its just "Bad writing" be my guest, but you cannot say that its not consistant which is what makes Star Wars so interesting.


I apologize for the spelling mistakes and errors. Grammar is not my strong suit.

STAR WARS: Henry Cavill Rumored To Have Had Talks About Potential Role In Simon Kinberg Trilogy
Related:

STAR WARS: Henry Cavill Rumored To Have Had Talks About Potential Role In Simon Kinberg Trilogy

STAR WARS Movie - Most Likely Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy's NEW JEDI ORDER - Pulled From 2026 Release Calendar
Recommended For You:

STAR WARS Movie - Most Likely Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy's NEW JEDI ORDER - Pulled From 2026 Release Calendar

DISCLAIMER: As a user generated site and platform, ComicBookMovie.com is protected under the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) and "Safe Harbor" provisions.

This post was submitted by a user who has agreed to our Terms of Service and Community Guidelines. ComicBookMovie.com will disable users who knowingly commit plagiarism, piracy, trademark or copyright infringement. Please CONTACT US for expeditious removal of copyrighted/trademarked content. CLICK HERE to learn more about our copyright and trademark policies.

Note that ComicBookMovie.com, and/or the user who contributed this post, may earn commissions or revenue through clicks or purchases made through any third-party links contained within the content above.

Odin
Odin - 12/22/2015, 10:38 AM
It's just Landis' opinion. Why would anyone care this much? Is there gonna be an editorial response to every negative comment about Force Awakens?
Forthas
Forthas - 12/22/2015, 10:54 AM
On a side note...there is something wierd about the light saber hand off in the GIF. Based on the clothing...I don't think Maz Kanata is giving it to Rey but to Leia.
DemonHunter
DemonHunter - 12/22/2015, 11:42 AM
@forthas

I did notice that as well. This whole scene is not in the movie. Which is interesting because Leia never got to see Luke use that saber, I wonder if she knows that is her fathers.
MrJillyMcBeam
MrJillyMcBeam - 12/22/2015, 12:54 PM
Great editorial. Really don't care what the naysayers have to say about the film. I enjoyed it, and that's all that matters.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 12/22/2015, 1:37 PM
Anakin was able to podrace before he ever knew he was strong in the force. He was able to do this because of his connection to the force. No one gave a shit about that.....
DemonHunter
DemonHunter - 12/22/2015, 3:04 PM
@KryptonianBorn

1. It had a tarp on it, it was literally collecting dust. I dont think ships have keys anyway. This ship simply had 0 security.

2. When she first grabbed the lightsaber the force was awakened inside of her, she was able to resist Kylo because the more he prodded, the stronger her connection was with the force. Non force users would simply give up control, however She was able to feel the invasion and send it back. Its more of instinct than training.

3. Its not a Death Star, and she was already inside.

4. Mind tricks are not mind control, and clearly she wasnt the best at it.

5. Again this is the force guiding her, not her beating him because she has all of the skills.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 12/22/2015, 3:07 PM
Cool read. I'm always taken out of the story every movie I watch that has ridiculous coincidences help the characters. It doesn't make me dislike the movie. Just always makes me roll my eyes. A lot of movies do this that I still love though. It's just annoying. But never bothered me in Star Wars. Cause the Force. This prophetic living energy field. That can give glimpses of the future. I have always believed it to be the culprit.

From finding Anak in on Tattooine in episode 1, to the Millennium Falcon sitting there for Rey to steal in episode 7. To conveniently getting tracked by Solo as soon as they went to lightspeed. It's a pattern through all seven films. An organic pattern. The Force makes these things happen for a reason. And we will soon find out in the next two episodes what the Force has planned for Rey.
RuccusRob
RuccusRob - 12/22/2015, 5:29 PM
First of all, Max Landis didn't originate this opinion.


SPOILERS

Second of all he isn't wrong. The movie spent most of its time illustrating that Rey could get out of any sticky situation without Finn's help, out Solo Solo, out Kylo Kylo, and when she IS put into danger, she dominates her captor with an energy field she only just now heard of.

And Here's the issue. This is Star Wars. One of the things about this franchise is that characters are usually grounded and human, and do incredible things in spite of this.

The only other character that did what Rey did was in one of the worst movies in the franchise.

There's no need to politicize this. It's just a story issue.
Battabing
Battabing - 12/22/2015, 7:44 PM
Ridley was awesome but her character was a ridiculous Mary Sue.

And is the Force gonna be the explanation for every thing these characters do? No skill, no flaws, no stumbles with the opportunity to learn from their mistakes?

Cause I'm not interested in any of that if that's the case. It's just a trap for lazy storytelling.
The same reason people lampooned Superman for being unrelatable is being sucked and swallowed by Star Wars fans.
EricBorder
EricBorder - 12/22/2015, 10:45 PM
@WakandasSoul

Yeah, and I'm never talking about that shit on here again, haha

Different strokes
Castiglione
Castiglione - 12/22/2015, 10:54 PM
I saw this, Landis is definitely right, he makes a lot of good points. I think their just points that are hard to hear for people that are overhyping this movie right now

TFA did a better job than the prequels, and that's all it needed to do in order to make the fans happy
MattBellissimo
MattBellissimo - 12/23/2015, 4:48 AM
@WakandasSoul said everything I wanted to say. lol.
pesmerga44
pesmerga44 - 12/23/2015, 11:31 PM
Yes Rey is a Mary Sue character. She was too perfect and from when we met her onward she struggled once in the entire movie. She is a tech genius, she is basically an ace pilot, she instantly knows how to use the force, and she beats a trained Sith warrior in a lightsaber duel.

I am fine that she is a tech genius because it makes sense. She is this scavenger rummaging through destroyed battleships and fighters. So I can see her tinkering with these things that is all fine. Then she is an ace pilot. With a few little hiccups she was flying the Millennium Falcon with little effort pulling off tricks only a seasoned ace pilot could pull off. I doubt from what we saw and how she was treated anyone would allow her to fly a spaceship so she should have no idea how the controls work or how to fly one. Then she is able to use the force pretty damn easily. She is able to use the Jedi Mind Trick without having any idea what it even is that was so dumb. I actually liked the scene when Kylo Ren was trying to peer into her mind with the force and she was able to look into his. That is something I can see her doing subconsciously with the force not instantly knowing how use an advanced Jedi force trick when having no idea what it is. Lastly her beating Kylo Ren a Sith warrior with years of training with a lightsaber after wielding it for the first time was terrible. I get it he was injured but she beat him to damn easily. This should have been like Luke fighting Vader in Ep V. Kylo Ren should have been playing with her in the fight easily parrying and deflecting her strikes like an adult with a child. What saves her is her instantly fighting like a seasoned Jedi Knight but the planet breaking apart splitting the two up and Kylo Ren being forced to retreat to a ship to escape the planet. It would set up a much better conflict between the two for the future movies. Instead Kylo Ren looks weak in comparison.

If Rey was just one of these things I would be fine with her and she would have been great. Daisy Ridley did a great job playing the character. The problem is she was all these things and beyond being force frozen once she never struggled in the movie. A hero needs to struggle for you to care about them and she was basically perfect. While I didn't hate this movie I didn't love it either. There are things this movie set up that hopefully will be much better executed in because if the next movie is like this one the nostalgia is going to wear off.
sickboy76
sickboy76 - 12/24/2015, 6:30 AM
You know why Max Landis was so salty, realised that someone had turned him into a film character, after all kylo ren was an entitled douchebag with serious daddy issues as well.
leeeoooooo
leeeoooooo - 12/25/2015, 3:44 AM
Some guys just don't like the idea of a self-reliant woman who can figure things out for herself...
Oxbow
Oxbow - 12/26/2015, 5:54 PM
Rey didn't have to work hard at anything and seemed to succeed at everything. If the filmmakers don't explain that in their movie then they should t be surprised that people find it strange. Maybe it's a generational thing, where older generations are used to working hard to gain something while younger generations expect to be awesome from the get go. Or maybe older generations have more patience for that kind of growth in a movie.
FishyZombie
FishyZombie - 12/29/2015, 8:33 PM
I rewatched movie and, yeah she pretty much is a Mary Sue TBH. I still liked her for what she was as well as the actress, but hopefully they tone it down in episode 8.
NegativeNerd
NegativeNerd - 1/14/2016, 12:40 PM
Um...this is coming from the same guy that had written 'American Ultra' with the SAME type of character, except the character was a MALE.

Sexist much? Maybe. But maybe he should look into his own line of work before judging another character just to get some publicity. He's not fooling me.
View Recorder