Superman Legal Update

Superman Legal Update

As Smallville prepares to end its 10 year journey and Zack Snyder's Man of Steel gets ready to go into production, the courts are still determining key rights issues between the estates of Superman co-creators Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster and Warner Bros./DC Comics.

By EdGross - Mar 24, 2011 03:03 AM EST
Filed Under: Superman
Source: The Hollywood Reporter

Explains The Hollywood Reporter, "The nasty dispute between Warners and the heirs of co-creators Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster stems from a 2008 court ruling that the Siegels are entitled to terminate the copyrights to some—but not all—of Superman’s defining characteristics, such as his costume, Clark Kent and his origin story, as described in the first editions of Action Comics. Throughout years... it has never been determined whether the Shusters and Siegels can take back other key elements of the Superman mythology, such as Lex Luthor and Kryptonite."

Which creates a challenge for lawyer Marc Toberoff and the Siegel and Shuster heirs to try and take their rights elsewhere or force the studio into making a settlement offer. It is Toberoff's hope that the appeal court will determine which aspects of Superman are owned by whom.

”It’s cutting to the chase,” Toberoff tells THR. “It is widely recognized that Judge Larson’s rulings on summary judgment largely favored the Siegels in upholding the validity of their termination as to Action Comics No.1, containing the core Superman format and characters.”

Warners, of course, sees things differently: "DC Comics and Warner Bros. are fully confident that the trial court's rulings against the Siegels are correct and will be affirmed on appeal.”

For Warners, while the studio is free to produce Man of Steel, depending on what the court says could theoretically jeopardize future films. Though one cannot imagine a scenario in which, if the courts should rule in Siegel and Shuster's favor, a deal won't be worked out between both parties for future versions of Superman.

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tracydavis001
tracydavis001 - 3/24/2011, 3:48 AM
I hope this can just get settled fairly for both parties,so that it won't jeopardize Snyder's movie and sequels.
Jaxim
Jaxim - 3/24/2011, 4:14 AM
Maybe they should license the Superman rights from the families. Or better yet, maybe copyrights should be limited just as the framers of the Constitution intended.
marvel72
marvel72 - 3/24/2011, 4:19 AM
poor dc fans not having much luck with your movies,so dc may have to conentrate on an another character than superman or batman.
rodsvilaca
rodsvilaca - 3/24/2011, 4:23 AM
So CHANGE the costume, maintaning the basic colors and adapting some names and facts.
YogiDonnie
YogiDonnie - 3/24/2011, 4:26 AM

I smell and retcon. Then screw the Siegel and Shuster leeches.
spider1489
spider1489 - 3/24/2011, 4:28 AM
I hope the movie is still a go!! I feel like we r finally gonna get the superman movie we all want , then! Just like that it will be taken away again!!!!
AiyalKilU
AiyalKilU - 3/24/2011, 4:28 AM
pretty pathetic of a Marvel fanboy not having much attention online and probably his personal life so he has to barge in every story

sad really
marvel72
marvel72 - 3/24/2011, 4:45 AM
@ aiyalkilu

i'm only being polite,if someone has made an article up.

its only polite to leave a comment,some people.
actionjackson
actionjackson - 3/24/2011, 4:50 AM
@Oreos, As a law student I understand where DC is coming from on this, even if I don't personally agree with it. If DC were to just give them money, then it would set up a precedent of them just throwing money at creators family's when they sue. Then everyone would be coming out to sue for money for other characters when they wouldn't even have standing in a court. Then DC would either have to give those people money or have egg on their face for being bias in which situations warrant the payments. Also, those additional law suits could use DC's actions of giving the Siegel and Shuster's heirs money as a basis for establishing a case in court, which otherwise would just be dismissed on the merits.
superotherside
superotherside - 3/24/2011, 4:53 AM
this isn't good news... hope it doesn't mess up future movies!
AlexDeLarge87
AlexDeLarge87 - 3/24/2011, 5:30 AM
[frick] :(
WeaponX
WeaponX - 3/24/2011, 5:31 AM
Marc Toberoff is not only a copyright lawyer, he's also a movie producer. With the report awhile ago of him working a deal with the heirs that if he wins the rights back for them, he gains %47.5 of any rights recovered from this dispute seems fishy. I think if WB/DC do lose the rights, it'll be Toberoff who wins big. I also don't think its a coincidence that as soon as Kirby characters become huge money makers at the box office, this Toberoff fellow has slithered over to the Kirby heirs to launch a law suit against Marvel. Most likely striking a large percentage deal with them too.

WB/DC need to win this. Siegel & Shuster heirs need to [frick] off and earn their own living.
SeaSerpentine
SeaSerpentine - 3/24/2011, 5:39 AM
@WeaponX agreed.
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 3/24/2011, 5:45 AM
I hope they get everything settled so they can give Superman the origin movie he needs!

comicb00kguy
comicb00kguy - 3/24/2011, 6:36 AM
Somewhere in every civil lawsuit is a middle ground where both sides can come away happy, or at least feeling that they got the best deal possible. The only ones who want protracted litigation are defense attorneys, because they're paid by the hour, and more litigation = more billable time.

The heirs don't want to take away Superman or any of the elements of his character, despite what some people here may think. They are simply continuing a fight for fair royalties, a fight that Siegel and Shuster themselves fought for many years before their deaths. Somewhere, there is a number, that will give the families a fair royalty for the Superman character in his various appearances, and will leave him profitable for DC and DC's owners. Everybody gets paid, everybody is happy. This is how civil litigation usually is resolved.

Actionjackson: I'm a paralegal, so I certainly understand the legal aspects of this case. DC doesn't have to worry about setting that bad of a precedent by settling with the Siegel and Shuster families. There are special circumstances here. The two creators had been involved in litigation of one kind or another against DC and its owners for many years before their deaths. That's a lot different from other heirs coming out of the woodwork and suing for a deal like the Superman heirs got. It might lead to additional litigation, but truthfully- what doesn't?
superdog
superdog - 3/24/2011, 6:40 AM
as the article mentions the studio is free to do whatever the want with man of steel since in its currently in production and the issue hasnt been settled yet. therefore dc technically still has all the rights and since the movie is already in production they can use all the superman elements for man of steel. it would only be any sequels they make that would be subjected to any rights splitting. and if they get all the elements out in the first one the sequels could easily proceed with a new suit or not metioning his origin at all.
woodsy100
woodsy100 - 3/24/2011, 7:06 AM
Shame this couldn't have all happened while Siegel & Shuster were still alive; they should have been entitled to a fair settlement, not their money-grabbing heirs.
Denn1s
Denn1s - 3/24/2011, 7:23 AM
what a bunch of assholes...aren't they happy enough with their name being forever linked to the greatest superhero ever created? i would...
EdGross
EdGross - 3/24/2011, 8:00 AM
Man of Steel is safe from all of this -- but it's why the film is being put into production now and out by the end of 2012. After December 31st, there would have been legal ramifications.

If the courts rule in favor of the Siegel and Shuster estates, it will likely mean that they'll be partners in future Superman endeavors. The two parties will need each other, really, for either to succeed.
teppy1954
teppy1954 - 3/24/2011, 8:17 AM
I appreciate both sides cases in this. Warners on one hand purchased DC with the understanding that rights to the characters were secure. The Siegel & Shuster heirs, on the other hand are continuing a fight that has been decades in the making. The essential strongarming of two creators by their corporate boss for a mere pittance ($300 if I am not mistaken) in exchange for the rights to Superman and continuing employment.

Before they died, Siegel was broke and essentially blind. Shuster was working as a walking courier well into his seventies. Warners, due to some pressure by fans and writers in 1978 at least gave the two some screen credit and a small annual stipend. Chump change for a character that has earned their succession of owners billions of dollars.
LP4
LP4 - 3/24/2011, 9:01 AM
Sick of this siegel crap.

I am worried about what may happen to the Superman reboot, despite Ed's reassurance- Supes needs this film badly. But I am even MORE worried about what this ruling will mean for Supermaan IN THE FUTURE. I don't want DC to lose Supes. Superman's home has always been with DC. He is the main cornerstone of the DC Universe. He is to DC, what Mickey Mouse is to Disney.

Superman's place BELONGS with DC...NOT the Siegel's wallets.

I hope something can be worked out so the Siegels can finally stop complaining and DC can still walk away with Superman in their ownership and WB can continue making more films for 'Big Blue'

btw- Wasn't it discovered a few months back that Marc Toberoff is really just a scumbag who is trying to get a piece of the pie? Doesn't really even care about the Siegels, he only wants his cut. I think he's the same guy who is helping the Kirbies with taking back some of the marvel-properties. I don't like Toberoff.
TheLight
TheLight - 3/24/2011, 9:32 AM
Its sad, that when you narrow it down it's about nothing but the money! But I understand where both sides are and want to settle this.
niknik
niknik - 3/24/2011, 10:37 AM
Yeah right! Lets reboot with a new costume. No Clark Kent. No Krypton. No Smallville. No Metropolis. No Daily Planet. No Lois Lane. No Jimmy Olsen. No Perry White. No everything else that S & S created in those first years of both Superman publications.

What pray tell do we call it? Superman? BWAAA-HAAA-HAAA!!!


Listen. Siegal ans Shuster got SCREWED by DC. For decades. If it wasn't for a large contingent of CB creators getting in their corner and raising all kinds of bad press for DC they would have remained penniless until the day they died. As it was even after the effort to get them some kind of recognition they only received a modest stipend to survive on from the company that made BILLIONS off of their creation. That and their names on the splash page from then on. Copyright laws are what they are. After a certain period of time the rights go back to the creators. DC needs to get off their greedy asses and make a deal with the estates of the creators that cut them in for a small percentage and get this taken care of.

Trust me: THEY....CAN....AFFORD....IT!!!

What they can't afford is to jack them around so much that they end up losing out on the rights to someone like.....oh say........DISNEY!!!
ar8898
ar8898 - 3/24/2011, 11:29 AM
DC does give the creators the credit they deserve, their names are in every comic book, movie, or cartoon that is produced with the Superman name. DC took a chance and BOUGHT this character from them when every other company thought that it was stupid and shot them down. It is my understanding that if you buy something, it is yours. Now, here come these money hungry grandchildren saying that the character does not belong to DC Comics after they legally bought the character over 70 years ago. What a bunch of jerks, I hope they don't get anything!!!
LP4
LP4 - 3/24/2011, 12:39 PM
@EvilOlive- Marvel-troll

@ar8898- I agree with you completely bro. DC bought the character when no other companies wanted to take a chance on it. They PAID siegel and shuster (no matter how small they still paid) and they gave the two men GREAT health-benefits till the day they died. And yes of course put both their names on everything that is SUPERMAN.

These grandchildren don't deserve the character, they are just greedy little bastards. DC made Superman what he is through over 70 years of ownership. Not the grandchildren or whatever.

skullboy
skullboy - 3/24/2011, 12:59 PM
I hope they make some kind of legal offer. If the Siegels and Shusters win, I suggest they move outta the country if they wanna take away a piece of American culture away from us. What bloodsucking vampires they are.
theangrytroll
theangrytroll - 3/24/2011, 1:38 PM
Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster MAY have gotten screwed by DC.

BUT!

Jerry Siegel's and Joe Shuster's grandchildren most definitely did NOT! They created NOTHING! They worked on NOTHING!

What it all boils down to, when you strip away the crap people keep trying to cloud the issue with, is these turds wanna get paid BIG TIME for someone else's work.

The fact that this suit wasn't immediately thrown out of court simply proves how screwed up our legal system is.

I sincerely hope the little trouser stains get exactly what they have given to the character: NOTHING!
NERO
NERO - 3/24/2011, 1:39 PM
Here’s my usual Siegle and Shuster argument:

DC did buy the rights from them; the sum was very low, but they accepted the offer. Was this an asshole move on the part of DC? It was at first glance, however a similar offer was made to Bob Kane for Batman. What happened differently, how did Kane end up fairly wealthy and S&S didn’t? Answer: Kane went to a lawyer to look over the contract; the lawyer suggested that Kane ask for a percentage of profits from all Batman products. Kane took the amended contract back to DC the same day and they agreed willingly to give him a cut that kept him more than comfortable the rest of his life just riding on the royalties. My point being DC was not unreasonable in its negotiating, they appear to have been more than willing to be generous with the sale of the copyright, it really just boils down to S&S not doing their due diligence and signing the first offer put in front of them.
NERO
NERO - 3/24/2011, 1:40 PM
Later, under new management and after two failed law suits on the part of S&S in which it was upheld that they had in fact sold all rights to the character, DC offered S&S themselves a lifetime pension and benefits even after the judges told DC they owed S&S nothing. DC went further and began listing S&S as the creators of Superman on all comics, films and books about the character. S&S took the pensions and gladly cashed the checks. After that S&S brought no more suits against DC in their lifetimes, to me the insinuation of that was that the matter was settled at least in the creator’s minds.

I feel bad for anybody that gets screwed out of a great sum of money, but did they really GET screwed, or did they screw THEMSELVES? I do think the families and their shyster are just being greedy at this point and if history holds true and if what I’ve read about their attorney and his aspirations as film producer are true it sounds like the heirs of S&S may well end up being just as finagled by their own lawyer as S&S were by the lack of one.
LP4
LP4 - 3/24/2011, 2:47 PM
@skullboy- Agreed bro! They better leave the fu*king country and go move to Canada if they wanna steal that part of American history with them.

@theangrytroll and NERO- I agree. The damned heirs didn't contribute JACK to the character of Superman. DC concentrated on the evolution of Superman over the past 70 years of his existence.

Hopefully DC wins. And the siegels finally STFU.
EdGross
EdGross - 3/24/2011, 3:33 PM
They were kids who sold away the rights for a pittance. I've said this before, but while DC/Warners was under no legal obligation to do more for them, morally they should have done something given the billions the character has brought the company. Yes, in the '70s they gave credit to them on all titles and set them up with a pension, but that was at Neal Adams' instigation and they did so primarily to avoid embarrassment on the eve of Superman: The Movie's release.

They could have done more and sooner. That's all I'm saying.
LP4
LP4 - 3/24/2011, 3:37 PM
@Ed- Yeah for Siegel and Shuster. Our point is- the heirs did NOTHING for Superman. Why must THEY get millions of $$$ for something they didn't do?!

It's lame. And they don't mind screwing the fans over either. It reeks of GREED to me.
Sanderman
Sanderman - 3/24/2011, 11:43 PM
Sooo..if the families win does that mean superman has a good chance of going to marvel?
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