JOKER Star Joaquin Phoenix Claims Christopher Nolan Offered Him Heath Ledger's Role In THE DARK KNIGHT

Joker: Folie à Deux star Joaquin Phoenix has claimed that filmmaker Christopher Nolan offered him the role of The Joker in 2008's The Dark Knight, a movie that featured Heath Ledger's iconic performance.

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By JoshWilding - Oct 28, 2024 04:10 PM EST

Filed Under: The Dark Knight

Heath Ledger died months before The Dark Knight arrived in theaters. As a result, the actor never got to see the response to his performance as The Joker or receive the "Best Supporting Actor" Oscar, which he was posthumously awarded the following year.

It's impossible to imagine anyone else playing the Clown Prince of Crime in that movie as Ledger has become nothing short of iconic as a result of his incredible performance.

However, Joker star Joaquin Phoenix - who won an Oscar for his portrayal of the character in the 2019 movie - has now revealed that Christopher Nolan approached him for the role that ultimately went to Ledger.

Explaining that he "wasn't ready" at the time, Phoenix said, "I talked to Chris Nolan about “The Dark Knight” and that didn’t happen for whatever reason, I wasn’t ready then...I can’t imagine what it would be if we didn’t have Heath Ledger’s performance in that film, right?"

We don't recall it ever being reported that Phoenix was in talks and there's nothing to say Nolan would have chosen him over Ledger, anyway. The funny thing about this is that Joker was supposed to end with Arthur Fleck carving a smile into his face which would have been reminiscent of the one Ledger's version of the villain had.

However, Nolan - who had a deal with Warner Bros. at the time - reportedly nixed the idea, resulting in Arthur instead drawing a smile on his face with blood.

With Nolan no longer at the studio, the critically panned Joker: Folie à Deux concluded with a similar scene, albeit one featuring an Arkham City inmate giving themselves a "Glasgow smile" after stabbing Arthur. Was it meant as a dig at Nolan from filmmaker Todd Phillips in retaliation for his previous intervention? That's up for debate.

In our review of the villain's latest movie, we concluded by saying, "Lady Gaga shines and Joaquin Phoenix brings more of the same to Joker: Folie à Deux, a wholly unnecessary sequel with no new ideas and nothing to say. It doesn’t work as a movie or a musical. What a waste of $200 million."

Joker: Folie À Deux finds Arthur Fleck institutionalized at Arkham awaiting trial for his crimes as Joker. While struggling with his dual identity, Arthur not only stumbles upon true love, but also finds the music that's always been inside him.

The sequel stars Joaquin Phoenix once again in his Oscar-winning dual role as Arthur Fleck/Joker, opposite Oscar-winner Lady Gaga (A Star Is Born). The movie also features Oscar nominees Brendan Gleeson (The Banshees of Inisherin) and Catherine Keener (Get Out), alongside Zazie Beetz, reprising her role from Joker.

Joker: Folie À Deux is now playing in theaters.

Quentin Tarantino Praises JOKER: FOLIE A DEUX: [Todd Phillips Is] Saying F*** You To [The Comic Book Geeks]

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THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN Star Andrew Garfield Reflects On Discussing Joker With THE DARK KNIGHT's Heath Ledger

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74 Comments

1 2

MahN166A - 10/28/2024, 4:08 PM

lazlodaytona - 10/28/2024, 5:07 PM

@MahN166A - People will laugh and scoff at this now, but the vitriol that was sent Nolan's, WB's, and Ledger's way when casted was extreme. Now, Ledger beyond nailed it. However, if people found out Phoenix was cast back then? There probably wouldn't have been such an uproar.

Good thing it all worked out. Ledger nailed his situation and Phoenix nailed his .... well, the 1st time I guess.

TheOtherOn - 10/28/2024, 6:44 PM

@MahN166A -

TheNewYorker - 10/28/2024, 6:45 PM

@MahN166A - I wouldn’t believe a single thing Joaquin Phoenix says. Plus, his “joker” failed miserably compared to Todd Phillips. Watching him [Todd] burn hundreds of millions… Brilliant

MahN166A - 10/28/2024, 8:36 PM

@TheNewYorker -

Yeah, you aren’t alone in that!

Would love to see what Nolan says about this claim.

MahN166A - 10/28/2024, 8:44 PM

@lazlodaytona - Maybe there wouldn’t have been an uproar. But history has shown that usually when an actor has a negative reaction to being casted in a Batman film, they usually perform better than anticipated or the film itself is recognized immensely positively by the audience.

Track record…
Keaton
Ledger
Affleck
Pattinson

Credit given where credit is due for Phoenix’s first take. But as stated to me from someone else in a different thread, these actors played different versions of these characters. Who knows what sort of performance we would have gotten if Phoenix had played Ledger after his death.

MahN166A - 10/28/2024, 8:45 PM

@lazlodaytona -

*meant to say if Phoenix took the role instead of Ledger.

S8R8M - 10/28/2024, 4:10 PM

I think Paul Bettany was his original choice from the concept art.
Then he had a meeting with Ledger and the rest is history.

HulkisHoly - 10/28/2024, 4:11 PM

@S8R8M -

I actually think Bettany would have given a solid performance. As good as Ledger tho? Hard to say.

lazlodaytona - 10/28/2024, 5:09 PM

@S8R8M - I'm with you but I still have no idea how Willem Dafoe was never cast as the Joker in any film. I mean, the dude's facial features already fit the mold....

S8R8M - 10/28/2024, 5:32 PM

@HulkisHoly - I can see it. The concept art looked great and they were thinking of using no make up. Just let him have scars.

S8R8M - 10/28/2024, 5:34 PM

@lazlodaytona - Yeah he is one creepy dude!
I think Robin Williams was a massive consideration aswell. Which I wanted to see after his performance in Insomia.

HulkisHoly - 10/28/2024, 5:55 PM

@lazlodaytona -

Willem would have KILLED it. Ledgers performance actually reminded me of Willem other than I think Willem would have come across even happier with his sadism whereas ledger comes across as bitter at the world. I think willem would have just done it all for the enjoyment alone.

Steel86 - 10/28/2024, 5:55 PM

@HulkisHoly - Each actor brings their own interpretations to each character. Paul would've been great no doubt but I highly doubt he would've been as great as Ledger. He crafted that character soo much. The gold he brought that wasn't written. The jail clap, staying in character for the hospital explosion, doing his own makeup etc etc

HulkisHoly - 10/28/2024, 5:58 PM

@Steel86 -

Good points.

Feralwookiee - 10/28/2024, 8:03 PM

@lazlodaytona - I remember him being rumored to be considered for the role way back in 1989 when Jack was later cast in the Tim Burton Batman.

Ray Liotta was also supposedly a candidate for the Joker back then.

r1g0r - 10/28/2024, 9:24 PM

@lazlodaytona -
His dick's too big for the part.
Nobody wants joker to be hanging low...

Clintthahamster - 10/28/2024, 4:12 PM

Dodged a bullet there.

DocSpock - 10/28/2024, 4:16 PM

@Clintthahamster -

You sicko. LOL!

FinnishDude - 10/28/2024, 4:12 PM

I wish in Gunn's DC we can get away from live-action Jokers needing some (either physical or mental) condition to give a "realistic" explanation for smiling constantly.

MahN166A - 10/28/2024, 4:15 PM

@FinnishDude -

I was telling my brother the other day (since he is an uber fan of the Nolan verse), that I am getting tired of the psychological aspect of the Joker where he always likes to play with this dark, brooding, "Always 3 three steps ahead of you".

Its been done several times. Ledger is the only one who (live action wise) has hit it on all solid notes and everyone now is trying to replicate his performance.
At this point, I want an over the top, theatrical, prankster of a villain while he commits his murders. Give me a squirting flower, or the laughing gas again. God damn, I'd even take the laughing fish.

dagenspear - 10/28/2024, 4:40 PM

@MahN166A - I think it hasn't been done that much.

Patient2670 - 10/28/2024, 5:02 PM

@MahN166A - While I would absolutely agree that Ledger hit on all solid notes, I would disagree and say that all three actors who've played the role since, have each been entirely different of anything that was done prior. Whether or not you enjoyed their portrayals, is entirely up to you, but all of them were entirely distinct and unique.

Slotherin - 10/28/2024, 5:04 PM

@dagenspear - it hasn't.

MahN166A - 10/28/2024, 5:20 PM

@dagenspear -

I think that it has, it just hasn’t been effectively done to the level that Ledger has performed it.

Leto was trash, and now we see with Joker 2 that Phoenix was trash.
Barry Keoghan? Obviously on the fence about because that little delete scene is too small to constructively criticize.

The only one that I can think that did a good job past Ledger’s time, was Cameron Monaghan when he was in GOTHAM.

MahN166A - 10/28/2024, 5:30 PM

@Patient2670 -

To each his own.
I easily admit that each Joker iteration was a different version.
But from my viewings, I also noticed a common denominator between them, and it’s always about how psychological he is. “I’m an idea” “Madness is like gravity, all it takes is a little push”
“All I have are bad thoughts”

Always honing in on his mental state and what he represents.
For me, it’s just like…Okay….we get it. You are gonna go into your philosophy of people as being as crazy as you. Again.

That is just my take.

Patient2670 - 10/28/2024, 8:48 PM

@MahN166A - fair enough

THEDARKKNIGHT1939 - 10/28/2024, 4:13 PM

MisterBones - 10/28/2024, 4:18 PM

Bullet dodged

lazlodaytona - 10/28/2024, 5:10 PM

@MisterBones - How? They both won Oscars playing the same character. Well, mostly the same....

TheJok3r - 10/28/2024, 4:33 PM

It will be very interesting to see how Joker 1 is viewed later down the line following the complete critical and commercial failure of Joker 2. Will Joker 1 be viewed on its own, or will it be dragged down with Joker 2 like how Batman Forever (which was successful when it released) is dragged down with Batman & Robin ?

Feralwookiee - 10/28/2024, 7:46 PM

@TheJok3r - I think it's a bad movie on it's own, but with Joker 2, we find out, it isn't even a movie about the Joker, so both are a complete waste of time imo.

RolandD - 10/28/2024, 10:10 PM

@TheJok3r - Batman Forever didn’t need Batman and Robin to bring it down. It sucked all on its own, although not as bad. IMHO of course.

TheJok3r - 10/29/2024, 12:20 AM

@RolandD - I understand that it wasn't for everyone, but when it released back in 1995, it was considered a step up from the previous (Returns) movie. It wasn't until 1997 when Batman & Robin released that people started viewing both of them as one and the same. Do you think the same will happen to Joker 1 ?

ObserverIO - 10/29/2024, 4:43 AM

@TheJok3r - Good comparison, Batman Forever was a massive hit when it came out so they gave the director free reign to do whatever he wanted and he shat out the poop that was Batman & Robin. Very similar to what happened with Joker 1 and 2.

But like Feralwookie said, I think Joker 2 kinda taints the first movie.
It doesn't just make the whole thing redundant plot-wise and character-wise but it also shines a light on how pretentious and empty the director really was when he made it. So I'd say in that sense it's even worse than Batman & Robin, because at least Schumacher wasn't trying to be Scorsese with Batman Forever, which still works as an entertaining popcorn movie imo.

RolandD - 10/29/2024, 7:48 AM

@TheJok3r - I haven’t seen either Joker movie so I can’t speak from my own personal experience. That said, you don’t have your history right here and I don’t think that this is just my personal opinion. Batman Forever was not seen as a step up in quality from Batman Returns, but it was seen as more family friendly since of all the four of the Batman movies from that era, Batman Returns was the darkest. The portrays byJim Carrey and Tommy Lee Jones was a big part of where went off the rails for me. I don’t know whether to blame the actors or directors, but those villains almost would’ve seen more in place on the Batman TV show of the 60s because they were way over the top.

ModHaterSLADE - 10/28/2024, 4:41 PM

I like Phoenix as an actor, but man Ledger has to be one of the most iconic villains ever.

Glad it worked out how it did.

lazlodaytona - 10/28/2024, 5:11 PM

@ModHaterSLADE - They both succeeded, despite JOKER 2's failures.
It worked out perfectly for both of them and all of us.

ModHaterSLADE - 10/28/2024, 5:28 PM

@lazlodaytona - Agreed. Two interesting takes on the character.

JOKER Star Joaquin Phoenix Claims Christopher Nolan Offered Him Heath Ledger's Role In THE DARK KNIGHT

Joker: Folie à Deux star Joaquin Phoenix has claimed that filmmaker Christopher Nolan offered him the role of The Joker in 2008's The Dark Knight, a movie that featured Heath Ledger's iconic performance.

Quentin Tarantino Praises JOKER: FOLIE A DEUX: "[Todd Phillips Is] Saying F*** You To [The Comic Book Geeks]"

THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN Star Andrew Garfield Reflects On Discussing Joker With THE DARK KNIGHT's Heath Ledger

DISCLAIMER: As a user generated site and platform, ComicBookMovie.com is protected under the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) and "Safe Harbor" provisions.