Many Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles fans will remember Tohoru Masamune's incarnation of Shredder in the 2014 film by Michael Bay (Transformers.) However, Twitch users know him as Dr. Matt Lin, the lead actor in Twitch's interactive scripted Sci-Fi series, Artificial: Remote Intelligence.
Currently, in Season 3, the series has already won Emmies and revolves around killer Artificial Intelligence. With Tohoru Masamune's Matt Lin going on trial tomorrow for programming the murder-bot, it could very well be his last episode. It all depends on the choice the Twitch users make!
Even though we recently chatted with Tohoru, we wanted to catch up with him on a few new things. In addition to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, we also talk about the future of his character from Artificial.
If you're interested in hearing the audio component of our chat with Tohoru Masamune, click the podcast player below!
Literary Joe: So, tell me what's going on with Dr. Matt Lin!
Tohoru Masamune: So, long story short, the idea is that I create this AI daughter for various reasons. I think, to replace my former daughter, that was killed. And there was this guy, this sort of Alex Jones character, that speaks up in an outrage. Long story short, they're saying that it might be the case that this AI daughter ends up killing this guy -- Nathan Keene's the character, kind of this Alex Jones character -- when she's on my show. (Laughs) My Twitch show. And so, that's how it ends. And I have to deactivate Sophie. So, fast-forward to this season, where I guess they re-programmed my daughter. I don't know, I'm very angry this season, by the way. I'm just sort of, I'm just the malcontent, it's funny.
Literary Joe: I've seen, you've got that serious look during most of your scenes.
Tohoru Masamune: Well, yeah. And rightly so, it fits the case. Cause I've sort of lost everything, and I guess that's what I am. I'm the angry guy. And so anyway, the long story short, the daughter of Nathan Keene, or the Alex Jones character, who is coming on in, she is accusing me of murdering her husband because I had created this AI that, that killed the dog. Does that make sense? So they're saying that I'm responsible and it has been so crazy because it's actually an interesting thing. I was talking to my family; my brother-in-law works for Space-X. It's so funny, the research I'm doing. Because all of these things are kind of real issues, and in fifty years we're going to have to deal with this. And someone's AI is going to kill someone. And, who's fault is it? Especially the way the AI works. It's not like I would be hardcoding in to kill these guys. And that's what you do with an Autonomous Weapon System. I mean, those are actually programmed to kill a guy however you want to do it. Have you heard AGI? That's basically humanoid, or basically a fake human. And so that's the way I sorta created this AI, but still, it can have these objectives that you give to a computer, whatever it is, but it learns how to do it. That's kind of how AI works.
So somehow it figured out through all this craziness after three seasons that, "Oh, I think the smartest thing to do in this case is I should probably kill this man." And she went and did it, so is it my fault because, you know, I coded her, but the coding is such that I didn't tell her to do it? She just thought that was the smartest thing to do after; I guess they call it in AI, the exploration phase, where there's that feedback loop, and they'd get, you know, and they figure out what actions to take, and what's the best actions to take given a specific state. And I guess she kinda figured, "Oh, I think I should probably kill this man." And so the Trial is, I'm up for murder, but here's the crazy part of this, the way the show is structured, if I'm guilty, I'm off the show. (Laughs) Isn't that insane?!
Literary Joe: Yeah. Is there any way that, that you can be guilty and still be a part of the show?
Tohoru Masamune: Well, technically, I'm assuming my episode count would go down considerably, at the very least. (Laughs) You know, I think Tyler was suggesting I'd be like this Magneto character, right. You know, some prison I'd report through. I don't know, somehow, I'd have a zoom link, I guess, from my cell, I don't know what they'd do, I have no idea. But the weird part is too I have been doing this character for so long. This is the longest-running character I've done. You start taking things personally. Like I read through the stuff, and I get so mad. I remember reading through the script. I get so angry at this stuff people are saying, and because we've been working remotely, you don't get to hang around. So you don't really interact through these amazing, wonderful sweet cast members. You interact with them just as your characters. And I start getting mad at them. I was like, man; I hate them. And then actually, I hate their character, and I have to separate the two, it's the weirdest thing. Oh yeah. It's weird. So it's fun. So even regardless of what happens in the future, episode wise, I'm in it to win it, man, I guess.
Literary Joe: I'm curious. I know that this is going to be up to the audience, but is this going to be a two-option poll where you're guilty, or you're innocent? Or is there a trial, or is it guilty or innocent?
Tohoru Masamune: The way I look at it, it looks to be like, unlike most polls, because I think it is kind of a big, I don't know if controversial is the word, I guess controversial, but, it certainly will have the most significant effect. I mean, he's saying, let's, you know, let's take the lead off. First, they have me terminate the main character. And I remember that the Twitch audience made me so mad because like it's funny. After all, it happens live, and you get so caught up. I'm like, "Dude, really? It's like, you're making me deactivate the main character of the show." Okay. All right. Fine. And now it will be the next thing, you know, it's sort of like, "Really, okay guys, this is my job, you know, do you mind?" But you know, but I believe it is, in other words, it's a more significant decision, and it certainly is the most impactful. So this is kind of a special episode, I suppose. So I think it's an on-running poll through the whole thing. And I think it's probably guilty or innocent. I don't think they can drop the charges. I don't think they can downgrade the charges. I don't think they can do anything like that.
*Check out our previous chat, which we reference below, in Episode 6!*
Literary Joe: I think it's funny that you've become so invested in this world because I remember you had mentioned* that you initially thought that the role was going to be a lot smaller and then you ended up getting like the script for it. And you realized that it was a lot bigger than you thought.
Tohoru Masamune: Yeah, originally, you know, cause I'd worked with Bernie early on as a side character role. And I just think he's an incredibly creative guy, so I'll do anything. He could send me the script. But I'd probably just say if he calls up, "Do you want to do this?" You know, then I'd say, "Yeah, yeah, absolutely." You know, I say yeah. And he's saying, well, let me get on the phone and I'm thinking, "No, no, just send me an email. Yeah. I'll do it; I'll do it." And he says, well, let me get on the phone, and I'm going okay. And he explains this whole thing to me, and I'm still sort of thinking, Bernie, you don't have to sell me on this. I love working with you, man. And then that's when he said, alright, so you agree with this? Absolutely? And I see the lawyer sends me the contract and I see 42 production dates. And then all of it was just kind of insane. So, here we are in Season 3, and my role is on the line based on what the Twitch audience decides. (Laughs)
Literary Joe: I think it's funny because that seems to be a running theme among the actors and actresses on the show, a lot of them have said that they were familiar with Bernie, or they've worked with Bernie on other projects before this. And I like how Bernie seems to bring all his crew in, mainly because he has so many minorities on the show. I think that it sets it apart from a lot of the other things on any other platform.
Tohoru Masamune: You know what I love about it, that aspect of it too, is that you do have a lot of that diversity, but it's never mentioned at all, ever in the script at all. I don't know; maybe it pops up here and there. But out of 25,000 Twitch users, I never see any comment about that at all. So, that, to me, is true diversity. And it is funny because I remember sitting down early on, and I'm one of these people that I just like working with actors, and I'm, I'm just an actor, I'm just in another random actor, and I just love working. And so, I think diversity is essential, but that's not the first thing I think of when I'm on a cast. And there was one point where I was looking around, and I feel good that when I realize that I'm with a group of a lot of Asians. We're working together, because, you know, that I've worked with all sorts of casts and I was looking around, so I thought, oh yeah, I guess this is a very diverse cast with a lot of Asians in it. And I thought, oh, that's kind of neat.
But I was sitting down with one of the founders of Twitch was at dinner. You know, it was just random, and we are sitting around and, you know, you know, and there're just a bunch of Asian people. There's a couple of Silicon Valley people, and I looked around, and I said, okay, actually, that's the reason why this doesn't seem like this is a diverse show is because this is what Silicon Valley looks like. (Laughs) It's like, oh wow, an Asian AI designer. Like, I have never heard of an Asian engineer. I've never heard of that before! So it just looked like, this is just the way Silicon Valley looks, you know what I mean? Like it's not weird, you know? And, and so that's the thing I think is great about the show. So we don't draw attention to it.
I think it was one point where I give my AI daughter an erhu, one of those one-string violins. Do you know what I'm talking about? That Chinese instrument, like an old guy, is playing it in Chinatown. (Imitates erhu) Oh, you know what I'm talking about. And like, that is like a tricky sound. And I think that's called erhu, I can't remember what it is, but I gave it to her. And I said, well, this was your grandmother's or whatever, as a birthday present. But that's different, you know, that's like a cultural thing, and that's what anybody would do. Regardless. So, that's the thing I think is kind of cool about the show and Bernie is I don't think we think about it, but it's there, and I realize that's the way that's, to me, is the best way to do it. You know, where everything's just, it makes sense.
*This interview has been edited for clarity.*
Dr. Matt Lin stands trial for the death of Nathan Keen. As the defense and prosecution state their case, the final decision rests with you, the Twitch audience. Is Matt guilty? You decide.
You can catch up on Twitch's Artificial here, and you can tune in for new live episodes each Thursday at 5:00 pm PST.