Concept Artist Phil Saunders Talks Iron Man's Suits In THE AVENGERS

Concept Artist Phil Saunders Talks Iron Man's Suits In THE AVENGERS

Check out to see what concept artist Phil Saunders had to say about designing the suits for Iron Man in Marvel's The Avenger's, including lessons learned from the first Iron Man film and the tricky part about designing them.

By WaylonJones - Mar 02, 2012 06:03 AM EST
Filed Under: Avengers


There has been all kinds of Avengers goodies released this week with the poster, interview excerpts from the cast, and an extremely cool trailer. We have heard very little from the designer of the film, but Marvel has sat down with concept artist Phil Saunders to talk about his work on Iron Man's Mark suits for the film. During the interview they talk about bridging the gap between the Mark VI suit from Iron Man 2 to where he puts on the Mark VII suit in The Avengers as well as how the triangular chest piece works design wise.

On the challenges of designing the new Mark VII suit for The Avengers:

"Each suit has been really successful, which has raised the bar, from the Mark I to the suits from “Iron Man 2.” Particularly with the suitcase suit. That was really spectacular, so there’s sort of an expectation that we’re going to take the suit to another level. With the Mark VII, there were a couple of elements that were already written into the script. The design always starts from the script. [Director] Joss Whedon was looking for something that had the “cool” factor of the suitcase suit, while still being a fully-armored, heavy duty suit that could take on an army in the final battle."

"The second element was borrowing some ideas that had been proposed in “Iron Man 2,” as well as some ideas that we had abandoned in “Iron Man,” in terms of having a modular suit, something that had two configurations to it. In “Iron Man,” the original script had called for something akin to the War Machine, but it was actually a series of additional bolt-on armor pieces that were going to go over the top of the Mark III suit for a big battle. Over the course of the battle, the idea was either his ammo packs would be depleted and he would eject those weapons, or armor pieces would get damaged. We took a bit of that idea and the modular armor that was proposed and merged all that together into a suit that has big ammo packets on the arms and a backpack, and that sort of dictated the design of the suit."


On if the chest piece being triangular or circular has an affect on how the suit is designed:

"Stylistically, yeah. That icon is going to be the thing that the rest of the lines of the suit radiate out from--it’s the focal point of the design. The Mark IV and VI are essentially the same suit, but you have to have an entirely different chest piece and torso to follow the lines of the triangular RT. [Visual Development Supervisor] Ryan Meinerding spent a lot of time making something that was harmonious to those shapes. When Joss Whedon started directing the film, he gravitated towards the classic circle-in-the-chest image of Iron Man, and ultimately, whatever the actual RT element is inside, what you’re seeing on the surface is just the focusing lens of the thing."


On the challenges of working on a suit when it has heavy VFX:

"The interesting thing is that when we started out in “Iron Man,” the intention had been to [make] it as practical as possible. The intent was to have 80-percent of the shots fully practical with the Iron Man suit. We built full practical suits with the Mark II and III, so there was a much longer problem-solving period with that costume than we have had subsequent to that. We were working out how he was going to lift his arms, how he would rotate his waist with all the overlapping plates to still make it look convincing, etc. You’re trying to design something that is built to aerospace tolerances, but still has to be a costume that an actor can wear. We had always intended, for distance or fast-action shots, that he’d be wearing as much of a practical suit as possible. For anything else, we’d do as much of the hard parts practically as possible and then the in between parts become digital replacements."

A lot of the main problem solving that had to be done for that had already been done in “Iron Man,” so by the time “Iron Man 2” came around the lessons had been learned of how much looked good practical and how much flexibility we had with the digital world. We had a much more open canvas on what could be done digitally. As we refined the suits, making them tighter and far more streamlined, they still retain the convincing qualities and believability that we had with the Mark III suit."


On working with Legacy Effects and what his role is wit them:

"They are really the experts at figuring out how to build the suit. That’s really their domain, figuring out if the material is going to be a flexible piece or fiber glass, etc. We determine what the surface and proportions are going to be--how do we make this thing look like something that doesn’t feel like a costume, but feels like a highly-precise piece of aerospace or automotive design. My own background is car design, so getting those very smooth-flowing surfaces, where lights, highlights and reflections flow [works] in the same sort of way."

What we do is sit down with their 3D modelers. The intent was to develop a digital model of it that would represent the final, refined surface--something they were going to use to grow a half-scale model that would be our proving ground for everything: surfaces, proportions, paint, etc. That digital model would then be passed onto various special or visual effects vendors that would then be doing the final shots so we could keep the consistency of what the Iron Man suit looks like. We sat down with their modelers and just went surface-by-surface to make sure everything worked."


Any thing else he wants to add:

"The trick to designing an Iron Man suit is that balance between creating something that is a believable piece of technology but doesn’t look like a robot. It still has to look like a character in-and-of itself, beside the fact that someone is wearing it. The suit itself is a super hero. You’ve got to work in all the classic musculature and disguise it all as purposeful aerodynamic components and machinery, or speed forms, and subliminally suggest the musculature of a hero while not making it obvious."


The Avengers stars Robert Downey Jr., Chris Evans, Mark Ruffalo, Chris Hemsworth, Scarlett Johansson, Jeremy Renner, Tom Hiddleston, Stellan Skarsgård , Samuel L. Jackson and will be released in the US on May 4, 2012 and in the UK on April 26, 2012.

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HavocPrime
HavocPrime - 3/2/2012, 7:08 AM
Sweet always did like the designs of Iron Man's armour in the movies.
ElDarkside
ElDarkside - 3/2/2012, 7:13 AM
Great Stuff!!! I love the evolution of the suit. It proves that Tony is constantly trying to design a better, more advanced suit.

Also interesting is that fact that he talks about how the Story will tell how the suit evolves...IE: HULKBUSTER SUIT...BRIGN IT ON!!!!!!!!!!
Sanderman
Sanderman - 3/2/2012, 7:13 AM
Great read. Can't believe the movie is almost here
villain001
villain001 - 3/2/2012, 7:19 AM
Hope WarMachine makes a cameo in Avengers... doubtful :(
Benjamitesandwich
Benjamitesandwich - 3/2/2012, 7:20 AM
After reading this I am still unaware of how Iron Man handles a painful stiffy in his suit.
drfate
drfate - 3/2/2012, 7:24 AM
the Iron Man suit is 100% cool! love it!

I like all of the adaptations in this movie; Marvel really should do all they can to GET THE X-MEN BACK! Then we'd finally get to see them done well.

From what I've seen so far, I prefer the Letterier Hulk to this one. In the shot of Hulk running through the glass, he kind of looks...pudgy, a little too soft looking for the Hulk.

but, love the Iron Man suit and all its variations
Wildaniel
Wildaniel - 3/2/2012, 7:35 AM
Iron Man's suit is perfect! War Machine's was awesome! I hope there is a HULKBUSTER SUIT!!!
SageMode
SageMode - 3/2/2012, 7:37 AM
ARMORS people. So yall can stop whinning about the chest piece shape.
valeriesghost
valeriesghost - 3/2/2012, 7:53 AM
From what i've seen of this last design its my least favorite. I'm not diggin the gold on the legs. But i'm just being a picky fanboy, it still looks good.
Gmoney84
Gmoney84 - 3/2/2012, 7:58 AM
Marvel has done a great job translating their characters costumes to the big screen. Thor and Cap were very impressive. I also think DC did great work with Nolan's Batman costumes as well as Cavill's Superman.
GUNSMITH
GUNSMITH - 3/2/2012, 8:00 AM


SageMode
SageMode - 3/2/2012, 8:01 AM
VALERIESGHOST

You do know that IM's main armors have gold legs, right?
GUNSMITH
GUNSMITH - 3/2/2012, 8:01 AM
MODEL WILL GIVE YOU GUYS A BETTER VIEW AT IT ALL...
GUNSMITH
GUNSMITH - 3/2/2012, 8:10 AM
superotherside
superotherside - 3/2/2012, 8:18 AM
No Hulkbuster? :( Hopefully it'll just be a surprise that they're keeping away from us but I'm beginning to doubt it now.
SpideyQuad
SpideyQuad - 3/2/2012, 8:20 AM
Nomis, like Hawkeye? Or the X-Men uniforms?

I totally agree, these characters are as much a part of their uniforms/costumes as they are their individual personalities. I have no problem tweaking things, colors, shades, proportions, but I agree. To say, “Galactic us will not work on film because he's ridiculous.” Is just shortsighted and lazy.

Not to harp on it but as an example, Hawkeye's costume could have had dark purple highlights along with a mask. Explaining how a sniper, or assassin character needs to have his identity hidden is a natural.

Nothing frustrates me more than how “comic book fans” give in and argue about “believability” in CBM movies. Really? Anyways, I'm really looking forward to all the CBM movies this summer and beyond.
TheAmarilloBlack
TheAmarilloBlack - 3/2/2012, 8:40 AM
Mark VII armor is probably my favorite. I like the elements of War Machine they incorporated (unpainted pieces) after looking at it more.

Hopefully Hulkbuster will show up @superotherside, he's always rocked at least 2 armors per movie. 3 armors in IM2.
ThaMessenger07
ThaMessenger07 - 3/2/2012, 8:53 AM
Gusto, that has nothing on Mare & Lt CosPlay @ Salt Lake City Comic Con

Spidey91
Spidey91 - 3/2/2012, 9:01 AM
@TheAmarilloBlack

I think the silver pieces on his armor are more a nod to his Ultimate incarnation,but that's just me
plasticman
plasticman - 3/2/2012, 9:23 AM
I sure hope that we get a glimpse of some sort of Hulkbuster Armor either being used or in the background as a computer design or model. Really looking forward to Iron Man in this movie.
TheAmarilloBlack
TheAmarilloBlack - 3/2/2012, 9:26 AM
@Nomis
Agreed on most counts (except TDKR jab, the newest Batsuit is the best the movies have seen so far, imo).
Coldblood6
Coldblood6 - 3/2/2012, 9:46 AM
With all due respect to those with differing opinions, I am a fan of Bryan Singers X-MEN movies and a long time fan of X-MEN comics, and I understand why he did what he did.

From his point of view there was no logical reason for the X-men to dress up in individualized brightly coloured costumes...and he was right there wasn't for several reasons:

1: They were covert group not a public superhero team.
2: They represented a school and thus should have uniforms.
3: There really was no reason whereas for other heroes there was, e.g., CAPTAIN AMERICA is a patriotic symbol, Batman wants to symbolically inspire fear, IRON MAN it's armour, etc.

Also the times were different from now. The comicbook superhero genre was dead for many years after the hyper-colourful, overcampy B&R killed it. X-MEN was trying to rebirth a genre to an audience that was have been very wary of campy brightly coloured stuff.

Now that times have changed and the CBSM genre is vibrant and alive, true colourful costumes can make a comeback.
BezierCurve
BezierCurve - 3/2/2012, 10:03 AM
The MOST important improvement to the armor this movie is the back jets seen here:



They did a terrific job in the first IM movie establishing the the repulsars were developed as flight stabilizers, but in doing they eliminated his ability to blast fools out of the sky while flying. And he did that silly "I'm a little teapot" pose for soft landing.
With the back rockets his flight is stabilized and he can shoot dudes with his repulsars, which you can see @ 1:42 of the new trailer. :D
genesis609
genesis609 - 3/2/2012, 10:08 AM
how are they gonna explain war machines absence? i mean hes out there somewhere....
GUNSMITH
GUNSMITH - 3/2/2012, 10:08 AM
I'D SEE XMEN WITH MORE INDIVIDUALISTIC DESIGNS TO THEIR OUTFITS..BUT MAYBE DARKEN UP AND SIMILARIZE THEIR COSTUMES COLOR SCHEMES SO ONE DOESNT STAND OUT MORE THAN THE OTHERS.
TheAmarilloBlack
TheAmarilloBlack - 3/2/2012, 10:23 AM
@Nomis

I liked the Begins suit, it just looked too stiff to me. I also didn't like the changes in texture between the "nomex" suit and cloth cape.

With the new suit I thought it was great they explained why it changed to improve range of motion and decrease weight. It also looked good to have Batman actually be able to turn his head. The elements of carbon fiber texture with the "nomex" look also impressed me. Could he have done with a wider neck piece to decrease the "bobble-head" look, definately.

@bezier
Those back jets are badass, aren't they?
TheAmarilloBlack
TheAmarilloBlack - 3/2/2012, 10:24 AM
@SMITH
Agreed, 100%
GUNSMITH
GUNSMITH - 3/2/2012, 10:48 AM
BACK JETS WERE A MUST BECAUSE WHEN IRON MAN IS FIGHTING AN ALIEN HORDE, HIS HANDS BETTER BE FREE TO BLAST THEM.
Mr123
Mr123 - 3/2/2012, 10:48 AM
I love how the new suit looks, I want to build one for myself. @Coldblood6 I totally agree wit u.
SotNatt
SotNatt - 3/2/2012, 10:51 AM
For as long as they're being made...

No Batman movie...will EVER get the Batman suit right, and here's why:

Through all its incarnations, the evolution of the Batman costume has seen very little changes. Essentially, the comics have constructed the same costume throughout, and any reincarnation of it has uphoeld a particular look that is signature to its look:

A lightweight, single-piece black cowl, Nomex-reinforced fabric w/ 15 micro-layers, GREY, a black cape and black climbing boots.

Easy peasy.

How can you [frick] that up? Very easily, I'm afraid, with every live-action adaptation (with the exception of Adam West's 60's campfest version) attempting to do away with the more traditional look, for fear that it's not as effectively intimidating or doesn't look as good overall.

That it would look, more or less, like a Halloween costume. And they're right to have had these fears, but it'll always keep their hands tied, worrying over how not to approach the traditional look, instead of ensuring that whatever design they come up with doesn't stray away from what the comic book fan (and general audience) will find familiar.

That's just as important as the character themselves, to see what you've only seen in art come to life with such accuracy. It's an immediate turn off, when that doesn't happen, and that's simply because human beings hold a higher regard to things that are familiar to them.

Iron Man was able to get away with that altogether. Mainly because the Iron Man suit has soooo many different versions that become more slick, more high tech, and more Tony Stark as they go along.

The suit literally becomes part of the character, and, as the character changes, the suit changes.

Secondly, in comparison to Batman, Iron Man was, more a less, an obscure comic book character to the general, movie-going audience. Until 2008, that is. Practically everyone I know who didn't read comic books were absolutely blown away by the freshness of Iron man's gear, and that every part of it worked so seamlessly together.

Fans of Iron Man or the Avengers, for the most part, drool over the film adaptations of the armour, because the detail that is incorporated into the suit, that rarely gets the attention it requires in the comics, was realized beyond anyone's expectations of how brilliant the design would look on film.
GUNSMITH
GUNSMITH - 3/2/2012, 10:56 AM
Gerrit
Gerrit - 3/2/2012, 11:02 AM
The more I see the Mark. VII the more I like it. It will be tough to top the Mark. VI visually but if the Mark. VII has as many gadgets as Feige said i think it will look great!
113
113 - 3/2/2012, 11:29 AM
TIme for some Uni-beaming son
marvel72
marvel72 - 3/2/2012, 11:33 AM
iron man armours are the best comic book costumes,i've ever seen.
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