JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX Director Talks Reimagined Harley Quinn, Musical Elements, Budget, Incels, And JOKER 3

JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX Director Talks Reimagined Harley Quinn, Musical Elements, Budget, Incels, And JOKER 3

Joker: Folie à Deux director Todd Phillips discusses his approach to the sequel, touching on everything from Lady Gaga's reimagined Harley Quinn to reports about the budget and the chances of Joker 3...

By JoshWilding - Aug 20, 2024 12:08 PM EST
Filed Under: Joker
Source: Variety

Variety has sat down with Joker: Folie à Deux director Todd Phillips to learn more about the sequel to his and Joaquin Phoenix's 2019 hit, Joker (which lost its crown to Deadpool & Wolverine as the highest-grossing R-Rated movie ever this past weekend).

Apparently, Phillips and Phoenix started mulling over follow-up ideas pretty early on, with one being to take the Clown Prince of Crime to Broadway. Literally!

"When we started really thinking about it, we realized it takes four years to put something like that together. And is Joaquin really going to give six months of his life to do that every night onstage?" the filmmaker explains. "Then we thought about doing it at the Carlyle as sort of a smaller thing. But COVID hit."

Instead, Joker: Folie à Deux opens with a "Looney Tunes-inspired cartoon" animated by The Triplets of Belleville's Sylvain Chomet before becoming a "full-blown musical" set two years after the events of Joker

After meeting Lady Gaga's Lee Quinzel in Arkham Asylum, Arthur Fleck stops taking his meds and the duo then break into songs like "Get Happy," "For Once in My Life" and "That’s Life" to convey their shifting emotions.

"Most of the music in the movie is really just dialogue," Phillips reveals. "It’s just Arthur not having the words to say what he wants to say, so he sings them instead."

"I just don’t want people to think that it’s like 'In the Heights,' where the lady in the bodega starts to sing and they take it out onto the street, and the police are dancing. No disrespect, because I loved 'In the Heights.'"

When it's put to him that the Joker sequel cost upwards of $200 million (the first instalment was made for $60 million), he responds, "I read these stories, and it seems like they’re on the side of the multinational corporations. They’re like, 'Why does it cost so much?' They sound like studio executives."

"Shouldn’t people be happy that we got this money out of them, and we used it to go hire a bunch of crew people who can then feed their families?"

Like the first movie, it's been clear for a while that this sequel will put a fresh spin on the comics and, unsurprisingly, that extends to Harley Quinn. "The high voice, that accent, the gum-chewing and all that sort of sassy stuff that’s in the comics, we stripped that away," the director confirms, listing most of what makes Harley...Harley. "We wanted her to fit into this world of Gotham that we created from the first movie."

While Joker: Folie à Deux will be a very different movie from its predecessor, there's already been some negative chatter online. In 2019, much of that was directed at the movie supposedly glorifying violence and subsequently becoming a story that incels - an online subculture who define themselves as unable to find a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one - can rally around. 

"In complete honesty, I’d never even heard that word before," Phillips tells the trade. "And my movie was certainly not a love letter to that type of person. In most movies, they’re pulling out 42 different guns and killing hundreds of people. In my movie, six people die. But what I was doing felt too real. And you go, 'Isn’t that the point? Isn’t it a good thing to show the real-world implications of what a gun does?'"

As for whether this franchise (because, despite what was said five years ago about Joker being a standalone tale, that's exactly what it's become) could continue to expand, it seems Phillips has closed the door on Joker 3. For now, at least. 

"It was fun to play in this sort of sandbox for two movies, but I think we’ve said what we wanted to say in this world," he says. 

Joker: Folie À Deux arrives in theaters on October 4.

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WhatIfRickJames
WhatIfRickJames - 8/20/2024, 12:27 PM
Sounds like the music stuff is not as everyone thinks it'll be
Malatrova15
Malatrova15 - 8/20/2024, 12:41 PM
@WhatIfRickJames - its a 2 minute gag
lazlodaytona
lazlodaytona - 8/20/2024, 1:14 PM
@WhatIfRickJames - completely agree. It'll weve into the story seamlessly.
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 8/20/2024, 3:09 PM
@WhatIfRickJames -
"After meeting Lady Gaga's Lee Quinzel in Arkham Asylum, Arthur Fleck stops taking his meds and the duo then break into songs like "Get Happy," "For Once in My Life" and "That’s Life" to convey their shifting emotions."

Sounds like exactly what we were thinking.

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ItsNotForMeWahh
ItsNotForMeWahh - 8/20/2024, 12:29 PM
Gotta get incel in the title

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Doomsday8888
Doomsday8888 - 8/20/2024, 12:59 PM
@ItsNotForMeWahh
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DarthAlgar
DarthAlgar - 8/20/2024, 1:14 PM
@ItsNotForMeWahh - Not his lingo. Todd is too smart to use a term adopted by perpetually offended, social media educated tools. 😏

UncleHarm1
UncleHarm1 - 8/20/2024, 1:39 PM
@ItsNotForMeWahh -
@JoshWilding - I love that the article defines the word incel, like the commenters on this site aren't already intimately familiar with the concept😅

Maybe intimately isn't the right word lol
JoshWilding
JoshWilding - 8/20/2024, 1:43 PM
@UncleHarm1 - It was either provide the dictionary definition or start naming names. 😂 I chose peace, not war!
UncleHarm1
UncleHarm1 - 8/20/2024, 3:44 PM
@JoshWilding -
Actual footage of an internet message board moderator
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Deadinside
Deadinside - 8/21/2024, 9:47 AM
@JoshWilding -
"...or start naming names"
Thank you! I prefer to remain anonymous...! ☮️😬
KennKathleen
KennKathleen - 8/20/2024, 12:29 PM
I better hear this song in some form. End credits, YouTube mash-up, sum'n!!!



?si=01HTqQG4GrVstDSS
HeraldNumber7
HeraldNumber7 - 8/20/2024, 12:33 PM
When it's put to him that the Joker sequel cost upwards of $200 million (the first instalment was made for $60 million), he responds, "I read these stories, and it seems like they’re on the side of the multinational corporations. They’re like, 'Why does it cost so much?' They sound like studio executives."

laughably disingenuous. you know what would be better? a bunch of smaller budget movies that hire more crews more often. ya know... a sustainable industry.
bobevanz
bobevanz - 8/20/2024, 12:49 PM
@HeraldNumber7 - find a way to get people to see those movies, I will but the majority just won't. That's why movies like Joker 2 exist
HeraldNumber7
HeraldNumber7 - 8/20/2024, 12:53 PM
@bobevanz -

but that's the point: it wouldn't matter as much whether they do go see them because you will have diversified enough of your offerings that an entire studio's financial quarter isn't dependent on one massive movie.
Apophis71
Apophis71 - 8/20/2024, 1:54 PM
@HeraldNumber7 - In the current market, ten $20M original movies are all unlikely to gain much if any traction at the box office in an era where only big event feel movies tend to draw much of a crowd.

It isn't like the theatre ticket and concessionaries costs less if the film is lower budget and a lot of streaming only films cost more than that with some TV series' costing more than $10M per hour long episode thus probable almost all budget movies fail to break even bar the odd, very rare, standout exception here and there that become a huge hit.

As such it may be considered a safer investment to spend $200M for a sequel to a billion dollar BO film as even if it makes 40% less it will still make money.

I get the point that more films theoreticaly means more work but lower budget tends to have far fewer working on them too so if the $200M film hires ten times more staff hours than a typical $20M film (specifics on ratios will vary depending on nature of the film).
The1st
The1st - 8/20/2024, 1:58 PM
@HeraldNumber7 - I don't think AI is going to do for them ultimately what they think it will long term either...cuz greed.
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 8/20/2024, 3:12 PM
@HeraldNumber7 - "They’re like, 'Why does it cost so much?' They sound like studio executives."

This is the guy David Zaslav hired to oversee DC productions to make sure they stay within a reasonable budget?!

If this movie flops, I hope they fire him.
TCronson
TCronson - 8/20/2024, 3:27 PM
@ObserverIO - they didn't hire him to be in charge of DC productions, idk where you took this from.
HeraldNumber7
HeraldNumber7 - 8/20/2024, 3:29 PM
@Apophis71 -

while i can concede that the landscape for consumers has other variables to consider, the fact of the matter is Blumhouse, A24, and Neon have all gained traction using this exact model.

it all comes down to making good films. people will go to the movies if they think they are getting their money's worth, regardless of budget size.

you have to train your audience on what to expect and then deliver the goods. tried and true tends not to fail until you begin perverting the process for other means (i.e. money).

even the current high-budget, tentpole filmmaking wouldn't be - as much of - an issue if studios hadn't hallowed out the magic to chase trends.
TCronson
TCronson - 8/20/2024, 3:34 PM
@ObserverIO - "in talks", it never went beyond that. Zaslav offered him Feige's role in DC, which Gunn and Safran took in the end, but Phillips refused.
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 8/20/2024, 3:39 PM
@TCronson - That's not what the job was. The job was effectively overseeing the budget and trying to find ways to make things for less money. And then he goes and says something like this.

It wasn't the DC Studios gig. Gunn and Safran would run DC Studios. Todd's job would be oversight of DC Studios.
TCronson
TCronson - 8/20/2024, 3:51 PM
@ObserverIO - Zaslav offered him to run DC Studios as well before Gunn and Safran accepted the gig. Phillips also said it didn't cost 200 mln in Variety interview this article references, Clickbaity Wilding didn't mention that in his article, maybe intentionally.
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 8/20/2024, 6:01 PM
@TCronson - The truth is always way higher than the estimates.
Deadinside
Deadinside - 8/21/2024, 10:00 AM
@ObserverIO -
@TCronson -

This is from Variety...

"And this is one splashy renovation. The budget for Todd Phillips’ musical “Joker” sequel — one of De Luca and Abdy’s first green lights — has ballooned to about $200 million, a significant bump from the $60 million cost of the first film."

Warner. Bros Spending Spree: Joker 2 $200 Million Budget, Tom Cruise Deal
https://variety.com/2024/film/news/warner-bros-spending-joker-2-budget-tom-cruise-deal-1235917640/
Malatrova15
Malatrova15 - 8/20/2024, 12:40 PM
El Bromas
SethBullock
SethBullock - 8/20/2024, 1:00 PM
@Malatrova15 -

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THEDARKKNIGHT1939
THEDARKKNIGHT1939 - 8/20/2024, 12:40 PM
"The Hangover Part II" equivalent.
lazlodaytona
lazlodaytona - 8/20/2024, 1:17 PM
@THEDARKKNIGHT1939 - you are so wrong. Where is there singing in Hangover 2? Or a plot of a man sadistically spiraling from a normal life he used to have?

Or, is there a speed boat in JOKER 2? Or a wedding ceremony?

Geez dude. Your statement is ridiculous.

JOKER 1 was nothing like Hangover 1. So where is your info from?
THEDARKKNIGHT1939
THEDARKKNIGHT1939 - 8/20/2024, 1:22 PM
@lazlodaytona - Todd Phillips made a great movie with the Hangover, and made a shitty sequel. He is going to do it again with Joker.
TCronson
TCronson - 8/20/2024, 1:48 PM
@THEDARKKNIGHT1939 - so you already watched it?
THEDARKKNIGHT1939
THEDARKKNIGHT1939 - 8/20/2024, 1:50 PM
@TCronson - The trailer, yes. And it looks bad.
marvel72
marvel72 - 8/20/2024, 2:18 PM
@THEDARKKNIGHT1939 - You can say that a movie looks excellent from the trailer but if you say it looks shit....

"So you already watched it"
TCronson
TCronson - 8/20/2024, 2:29 PM
@THEDARKKNIGHT1939 - it literally doesn't.
TCronson
TCronson - 8/20/2024, 2:30 PM
@marvel72 - he said nothing about the trailer in the comment I replied to.
lazlodaytona
lazlodaytona - 8/20/2024, 8:13 PM
@THEDARKKNIGHT1939 - yeah. As a sucker for sequels, even bad ones, I love catching up with the characters....

This the best motor boat movie scene EVER:

?si=bKb-4C-600djAHDK
TheVisionary25
TheVisionary25 - 8/20/2024, 12:43 PM
I’m interested to see this take on Harley…

Reimagining aren’t inherently a bad thing , hell we just got one of Harley in Caped Crusader and tbh it might be my favorite iteration of the character (though I say that as someone who has never been a big fan of the character).

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Also while I didn’t care much for the first Joker , I definitely don’t think it was glorifying violence because every time it happens in that film it’s meant to be shocking & upsetting
Apophis71
Apophis71 - 8/20/2024, 2:04 PM
@TheVisionary25 - I mean the franchise is only realy trading off brand recognition names to sell character study dramas anyway so if they had tried to suddenly be source accurate it would have been more odd than just showing how two people can devolve into a shared psychosis in a real world type setting.

The concept is great, even the idea that they would use song lyrics to talk isn't actualy that far fetched an idea to play on, it can be a thing and songs can convey more emotion than standard dialogue if done well esp if covers of well known tunes.
TheVisionary25
TheVisionary25 - 8/20/2024, 2:26 PM
@Apophis71 - yep

Music is initially like any art a way for people to express themselves and this version of Joker does have a leaning towards song & dance as we saw in the first one.
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