JUSTICE LEAGUE Producer Deborah Snyder Surprised Over HBO Max's Lack Of Transparency With Streaming Numbers

JUSTICE LEAGUE Producer Deborah Snyder Surprised Over HBO Max's Lack Of Transparency With Streaming Numbers

Zack Snyder's Justice League producer Deborah Snyder has expressed surprise over HBO Max's failure to disclose streaming numbers for the movie, while also saying the release offered a sense of "closure."

By JoshWilding - May 13, 2021 03:05 AM EST
Filed Under: Justice League
Source: The Hollywood Reporter

Even before the COVID-19 pandemic hit, streaming was proving to be a game-changer for Hollywood. Netflix frequently touts viewing figures, though it's no secret that they aren't always overly reliable (for example, they often count a view as someone who has just watched the first couple of minutes of a movie or TV show and no more). 

For the most part, though, we don't get "ratings" for content on streaming services, with only third-party companies offering an idea of how successful a newly released title has been. 

Talking to The Hollywood Reporter about Army of the Dead, Zack Snyder's Justice League producer Deborah Snyder was asked about WarnerMedia's decision not to release any figures for the DC Comics movie. Admitting that she was surprised, Snyder went on to address the lack of transparency in the streaming world. 

"HBO...it’s interesting that they haven’t reported the numbers, but there have been a bunch of articles saying how massive Justice League has been," she said. "For us, it wasn’t about that. It was about completing Zack’s vision. Something that because of our tragedy turned into something really ugly and distorted, and having a chance to set it right. The love from the fans for that film and for Zack’s vision and to be able to complete that vision was the why of it for us."

"That’s been an amazing experience to see people enjoy it and the love. We had been developing this world and Zack’s version of that world for over ten years. It was kind of a weird ending, or lack of ending. For us, it was a nice way to get closure and also for people to see what it was meant to be."

WarnerMedia is keen to move on from Zack Snyder's vision for the DC Extended Universe, so it's no wonder they didn't share figures of the good or bad variety. Had it been the latter, social media would have devolved into a frenzy, while the former would simply have added more fuel to the #RestoreTheSnyderVerse fire. 

We've heard conflicting reports about how well Zack Snyder's Justice League did on HBO Max, but whatever the case may be, there are currently no plans for a sequel. 


Click on the "Next" button below to see the 10 worst changes
Joss Whedon made to Zack Snyder's Justice League!

10. The Flash's Faceplant

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We didn't know this at the time, but this throwaway gag in Justice League was one of the most controversial additions to the film back in 2017. Gal Gadot refused to shoot this scene, as did her stunt double, and that led to Whedon locking the latter in her dressing room and threatening her career. 

As you might expect, neither woman wanted to be part of a sequence that ended with the Flash's face planted in Diana Prince's chest, but for Whedon, this was an essential addition.

Even without knowing the backstory, everything about this scene sucked. 

It's creepy, weird, and a moment Whedon actually rehashed after having Bruce Banner fall into Black Widow's heaving bosom in the exact same way in 2015's Avengers: Age of Ultron.
 

9. Taunting Diana Prince

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Wonder Woman talking to Bruce Wayne after their battle with Superman was a strange addition to the film and seemed to be there only to tease a possible romance between the two heroes.

Snyder did the same thing when they were researching the League together, albeit in a much more subtle fashion (which is surprising considering who we're talking about). Regardless, Whedon's version wasn't too offensive.

A bigger issue in the 2017 cut of Justice League was the way Batman taunted Diana over the death of Steve Trevor decades earlier. This just seemed unnecessary in a film that had a two-hour runtime. 

There was no need for Bruce to take that shot or for Diana to emasculate him; it feels like this was Whedon's way of criticising how Wonder Woman had been portrayed in previous DC films. 
 

8. Injustice League

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Jesse Eisenberg once denied being involved in Justice League's reshoots, but the Snyder Cut confirmed those theories that he had, in fact, reshot his half of Lex Luthor's conversation with Deathstroke. 

Whereas that scene was once meant to set the stage for The Batman, Warner Bros. - on the outs with Ben Affleck at this stage - clearly realised they should probably change it to something else. As a result, Whedon came up with an idea that was meant to tee up a Justice League sequel (talk about optimism). 

It's unclear how much thought Whedon and studio execs gave to that follow-up, but rather than focusing on Darkseid, it was clearly meant to pit the Justice League against Luthor's Injustice League. 

Lex creating a "League of our own" is all sorts of dumb, and would have felt very random had that sequel happened. 
 

7. Steppenwolf's Defeat

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By now, you don't need us to tell you that Whedon decided to completely change Steppenwolf's appearance in his cut of Justice League, likely because that design was considerably cheaper to animate than the intricate version Snyder dreamed up. 

Ultimately, the biggest change was how the villain was beaten by the League. 

In the Snyder Cut, the team came together to overpower Steppenwolf and didn't hesitate to kill him (Aquaman skewered him with his trident, and Wonder Woman proceeded to chop his head off). Perhaps that was too dark for a studio looking for a Marvel Studios-style take on the League, but the way Whedon's defeat was handled...to call it dumb would be an understatement. 

Overcome with fear after facing the team, he's carried back to Apokolips and that's the end of that. It was lame, and clearly meant as a way to move on from Darkseid as a villain.
 

6. Danny Elfman's Score

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We love Danny Elfman's work, particularly in the world of superheroes. Unfortunately, the composer didn't have much time to come up with a unique spin on these characters, and his score very much faded into the background. 

There was nothing particularly impressive about it, and the decision to reuse Batman and Superman's classic scores felt clunky and wholly inappropriate when those pieces of music were designed for very different iterations of these characters. 

Junkie XL's Justice League score was pretty much finished when Whedon took over, so why the director didn't use that and work with the musician is impossible to say. 

It's possible Warner Bros. thought that Elfman would bring the lighter tone to proceedings that they so desperately wanted but more likely that Whedon again wanted to make this movie his own (he worked with Elfman on Avengers: Age of Ultron). 
 

5. Superman's Hideous Face

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In some respects, this was out of Whedon's control, particularly as Paramount Pictures was unwilling to allow Henry Cavill to shave off his facial hair for Justice League's reshoots. 

How the director or Warner Bros. could be on board with those finished effects is anyone's guess, but even more confusing is why Whedon found it necessary to reshoot so many of Superman's scenes. Almost nothing that Snyder filmed with Superman made it into the 2017 film, a crazy decision when Whedon chose to add lines about how Clark smelled and make him a total goofball.

Nearly everything we saw from Superman in the final battle was superfluous, and simple ADR could have lightened up the Man of Steel for the theatrical cut. 

Whedon, and Geoff Johns, likely felt a need to reinvent the character in their own image, which just so happened to involve some horrendous visual effects. And yes, you can count that weird cell phone footage in this entry. 
 

4. Goofy News Report

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We'll never know whether Snyder really did plan to always reveal that it was Martian Manhunter disguised as Martha Kent in his take on this scene. However, even if that weird reveal was only included to validate online fan theories, the non-Martian Mahunter version of this conversation can't have been as bad as this. 

Snyder chose to make light of Steppenwolf's invasion by having that S.T.A.R. Labs janitor's wife let loose a foul-mouthed tirade on the news about her missing husband being "f***ing probed."

This dumb, juvenile humor added nothing to Justice League, and only served as a distraction in a scene that completely eliminated Lois Lane's pregnancy and her decision to leave The Daily Planet. 

Full of heavy-handed, clunky dialogue, this whole thing was just plain rotten.
 

3. "Tell Me, Do You Bleed?"

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Whedon brought a lot of humor into the MCU with his Avengers films, but that was completely absent in his cut of Justice League. Perhaps this team doesn't suit jokes as well as Earth's Mightiest Heroes, but the director sure did deliver a lot of clangers in the 2017 film. 

Superman dropped a bunch of crappy one-liners in the final act, while a bruised and bloodied Batman limping away from that fight with the Man of Steel was maximum cringe. 

The worst offender, however, was Superman asking the Dark Knight, "Tell me, do you bleed?" Well, he's a regular human man being throttled by an alien powerhouse who has just been resurrected, so something tells us he probably does bleed. 

To be fair, this was a throwback to Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, but we'd happily place money on Whedon including it as a meta-joke at Snyder's expense.
 

2. The Russian Family

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For some reason, a bunch of people still live near the abandoned town Steppenwolf sets up shop in, and Superman and the Flash end up spending most of the final act rescuing them. 

The Man of Steel belittles the Scarlet Speedster's effort by carrying an entire building to safety (which was goofy), but this was blatantly included as a heavy-handed way of showing that the Justice League is, in fact, a team of superheroes. 

Because, you know, saving the world just isn't enough. 

Whedon may have written these scenes, but it feels like studio execs got involved here and decided that these characters needed to be portrayed in a certain way...a way that had nothing to do with Snyder's vision for the DCEU. It's just petty, and one of the worst parts of a very bad film. 
 

1. Superman's Race With The Flash

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As post-credits scenes go, this isn't terrible. 

Superman racing the Flash is one of those iconic moments from the comics...that's now been done to death. Seriously, it's more lame than epic at this stage, and felt wholly tacked on in Whedon's cut of Justice League. After all, we didn't even get to see who won, so what the heck was the point? 

Clark Kent has returned from the dead, and his first priority is to race Barry Allen? There was nothing that laid the groundwork for this moment, and it instead felt like another way for Whedon to take a shot of the Flash (a character it seems he really doesn't like).

We're sure some fans were excited to see this on screen, but they're surely in the minority, right? 
 

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Moriakum
Moriakum - 5/13/2021, 4:01 AM


bkmeijer2
bkmeijer2 - 5/13/2021, 4:05 AM
@Moriakum - Godzilla vs Kong and Mortal Kombat had a pretty good first day. Didn't expect that
Goldboink
Goldboink - 5/13/2021, 4:46 AM
@Moriakum -

Matador
Matador - 5/13/2021, 5:37 AM
@Goldboink - for 4hours
Goldboink
Goldboink - 5/13/2021, 5:42 AM
@Matador -
Um, 10 years
JoJo1982
JoJo1982 - 5/13/2021, 8:38 AM
@Moriakum - so does that mean the first episode of Falcon and the winter soldier is pathetic, bc it beat that show opening weekend
bkmeijer2
bkmeijer2 - 5/13/2021, 4:04 AM
''For us, it wasn’t about that''

Then why bring it up?

Anyway, I'm glad Snyder got to finish his vision with ZSJL. But I'm also glad WB is not spending any more attention to it either. Time to move on
hazapez
hazapez - 5/13/2021, 5:19 AM
@bkmeijer - the snyders were called to see if they wanted to resurrect this film, first of all. second of all, she was asked this question, she didnt "bring it up"
Ha1frican
Ha1frican - 5/13/2021, 6:20 AM
@bkmeijer - Because she was asked

“As a producer, one way you can gauge success is box office numbers. But with streaming, you might not ever know how many people watched your movie. After Justice League came out, I was hoping for one of those press releases saying it broke a ratings record or something like that.

“Yeah! So was I, by the way.”

“How are you adjusting to that lack of transparency as you dive into streaming, first with Justice League and now with Army of the Dead?”

“ It’s about telling stories and getting your stories to as many people as possible. Yes, there might be an excitement about how it does. Everyone is a little competitive, but they are taking chances on films that would not be getting made. The studios are so focused on big IP and tentpoles, but there is a lot of other content the streamers are getting made that wouldn’t get made if it wasn’t for them. In my experience, the creative freedom and support along the way – not a fight, support — for the director’s vision, has been really great. In terms of the box office, yeah, it’s good to know, but you usually know if people like it or not.

HBO — it’s interesting that they haven’t reported the numbers, but there have been a bunch of articles saying how massive Justice League has been. For us, it wasn’t about that. It was about completing Zack’s vision. Something that because of our tragedy turned into something really ugly and distorted, and having a chance to set it right. The love from the fans for that film and for Zack’s vision and to be able to complete that vision was the why of it for us. That’s been an amazing experience to see people enjoy it and the love. We had been developing this world and Zack’s version of that world for over ten years. It was kind of a weird ending, or lack of ending. So for us, it was a nice way to get closure and also for people to see what it was meant to be.”

Cmon you gotta know by know how much this site cherry picks quotes from articles lol
bkmeijer2
bkmeijer2 - 5/13/2021, 6:23 AM
@hazapez @Ha1frican - I should've known yeah
JonC
JonC - 5/13/2021, 8:50 AM
@bkmeijer - she makes little sense... just from this statement...
" or lack of ending. For us, it was a nice way to get closure"
...so is it a "lack of ending" or is it "closure"???
Skrull
Skrull - 5/13/2021, 10:39 AM
@Ha1frican - The way that "question" was posed was ridiculously unprofessional. The interviewer came off as a Snyder cultist rather than a reporter.
bkmeijer2
bkmeijer2 - 5/13/2021, 11:23 AM
@JonC - I guess she means she didn't expect it to end this way, but she's glad it ended nonetheless
Ben4
Ben4 - 5/13/2021, 1:10 PM
@JonC - I think she’s referring to the Whedon Cut there. She saying they were working on this universe for so long it was “a weird ending, or lack of an ending” because they didn’t get to finish the film. So going back and doing the Snyder Cut was “a nice way to get closure”
bobevanz
bobevanz - 5/13/2021, 4:11 AM
Streaming services never report the numbers, that's why Netflix gets away with throwing so much crap at the wall. Having said that, the general audience doesn't care enough to watch a 4 hour extended version of a movie they might or might not have already seen years ago. Expect 5 more articles today on the same topic lol
Origame
Origame - 5/13/2021, 5:03 AM
@bobevanz - yeah this is standard practice, not really a Snyder cut cover up thing. In fairness I do feel they should be transparent about this, as covering it up is pretty shady, but I'm not exactly losing sleep on the subject.
Blergh
Blergh - 5/13/2021, 4:15 AM
Because the numbers aren't good enough to release Deb, it's just that simple.
The Snyder Cut was very likely a dissapointment if (according to SambaTV) GvK, WW84 and MK beat out the Snyder Cut.
Added the fact that most people didn't even finish the movie makes the whole thing really freaking sad.

Also apparently Judas and the Black Messiah beat out the SC, a movie that had a significantly lower budget and less social media hype.

my sources (before any Snyder fan tries to attack me again):
60% didn't finish the film: https://comicbook.com/dc/news/zack-snyder-justice-league-first-week-audience-did-not-finish-fi/
Judas & the Black Messia beat out the SC: https://www.cbr.com/zack-snyders-justice-league-third-biggest-hbo-max-debut-2021/
SambaTV analysis: https://screenrant.com/mortal-kombat-wonder-woman-1984-gvk-justice-league/
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