EDITORIAL: The Door Opens to On-Screen Superhero Team Ups

When we were kids, the "smart" guys would insist there was little chance of seeing two cool superheroes on the screen at the same time. "The studios would make less money that way," Mr. Smartypants and his brain trust would explain. It's so sweet to see they were wrong.

Editorial Opinion
By SuperMark - Mar 11, 2012 11:03 AM EST
Filed Under: Other
Source: Photo from: publicity still, Avengers

By MARK NEWMAN
For CBM

Yes, we fans know that a Superman movie could probably make money on its own. And we don't have to be financial wizards to know the next Batman movie may bring in a few bucks.

But my know-it-all friends have always insisted having the "movie" Batman and the "movie" Superman team up, like they do in the comics, wouldn't generate more money than two separate films would.

With that in mind, the know-it-all question to me has always been this: Why should a film studio make a superhero teamup? My supernerd answer is this: Because it'd be freakin' awesome, that's why.

I'd love to see Spidey and Luke Cage, Supes and Batman, Cap and Wolverine. Hell, I don't know. Go crazy, and I'll go to the movies.

I can say that because the know-it-alls don't look so smart any more. Avengers proves them wrong. So did Iron Man II (with some solid scenes from War Machine and a "cameo" from Black Widow). In fact, a long time ago, in a galaxy not all that far away, even the Hulk on TV teamed up; once with Thor and once with Daredevil. Wonderfully hideous stuff. There must be more crossover-type live-action projects I'm forgetting.

But I'm sure there are more on-screen superhero partnerships in the works. Why? Because they're awesome, that's why.

(Mark Newman is a newspaper reporter and comics fan in small-town Iowa.)

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Paulley
Paulley - 3/11/2012, 1:10 PM
With the rise of the Marvel Cinematic Universe i can easily envision times in which making a "team up" movie would make sense. Especially for characters that don't fair well in solo movie outings.

Obviously new characters to movie audiences need to be introduced (usually via solo origin movies). So it makes it more likely for characters that do get put together in team movies either to have origins that are too silly (or too simple) to need a whole movie or characters where movie going audiences already know there origin.

For example Marvel could throw in the Punisher and Ghost Rider (if they regain the rights) as audiences already know their origins.

Hawkeye for example didnt need a solo movie as his 616 origin is silly and his Ultimate origin which they mostly borrowed from is too simple to warrant it.
marvel72
marvel72 - 3/11/2012, 2:49 PM
blade,ghost rider & punisher movie would be awesome.
RidiculousFanBoyDemands
RidiculousFanBoyDemands - 3/11/2012, 9:01 PM
Seeing Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk and Thor on screen together is much different than seeing Batman and Superman. One could argue that none of those (save for Iron Man) can't really sustain a solo film franchise. The public doesn't care about them, nor do they have the rogue galleries of a Batman and Spider-man.

Iron man is popular because of Robert Downy Jr. Once he goes the numbers will be similar to Captain America and Thor. The Avengers work better as a team than separate on film, where Batman and Superman are the opposite.

I would rather see fleshed out stories of both Batman and Superman because they are fascinating characters. No offense to Thor and Captain America, they aren't that fascinating.
RidiculousFanBoyDemands
RidiculousFanBoyDemands - 3/11/2012, 9:07 PM
Batman, Spider-man, Superman are all billion dollar franchises.

The Dark Knight grossed more than each individual Avengers movie combined. Teaming them up would not be a smart move, why make one movie that will only gross a billion dollars when you can make two (in Superman and Batman's case) that can gross close to two billion dollars independently?

Same for Spider-man, why shoehorn him into a movie when it is obvious he can carry his own film, and do quite well. Why would you want to give him (or any of the big super hero's) a bit part in a team up movie, when they can clearly carry their own film.

It's a dollar and cents game my friend, the Avengers teamed up will make more than the Avengers in solo movies. Batman and Superman, or Spider-man with the Avengers (which I know can't happen because of the studios) will make more money in solo movies, than in team up flicks.
DylansMyDog
DylansMyDog - 3/12/2012, 9:18 AM
RFBD - I think you are off base on a couple things, especially about which super heros can hold their own on film. First of all its not all about box office. The Transformer movies destroy at the box office and except for the first one are terrible.

But, if thats how you think movie execs look at things then thats fair. You should look up the numbers before talking about box office though. While TDK did gross just over $1 Billion world wide that isn't close to the Marvel Studio's movies combined. All told IM, IM2, Thor, CA:TFA and IH took in $2.2 Billion world wide, which is more than Batman Begins, TDK and Superman Returns combined ($1.7 Billion). It's five movies to three and after TDKR and TMoS I'm sure the Bat/Supes team will win, but still its not quite the drubbing you implied.

Further more both Ironman movies and Thor grossed more world wide than any single batman film except TDK. Both Batman Begins and Superman Returns grossed in the $370 million to $390 million range - the same as Captain America.

As far as who is "fascinating," I will give you Batman. He is arguably the greatest super hero ever, with a compelling back story, top notch villains and fleshed out side characters. However, supes is not. He is over powered with a so-so rogues gallery (probably why it alternates between Lex and Zod in every movie). People love him because he was first, but I'm sorry to say I do not find the big blue boyscout "fascinating."

Now these are our opinions, but I found both CA:TFA and Thor to be much fresher and more interesting than a lot of recent super hero movies because they explored some new territory for heros (war, family). If they keep it up they will hold their own just fine.

As for Ironman being done after RDJ thats like saying Batman will go back to Schumaker box office totals after Nolan. Either may be true, but no one knows for sure.
DylansMyDog
DylansMyDog - 3/12/2012, 9:18 AM
End Rant
RidiculousFanBoyDemands
RidiculousFanBoyDemands - 3/12/2012, 10:08 AM
It's just math dude. If you have two separate franchises that can make you a billion dollars you don't team them up. You make two movies that net you a billion dollars each. The studios only care about money, it is a business. Each film is an investment, and one of the few legal ways you can turn 200millino in to a billion.

As for Cap, Thor, and The Hulk. They can't carry their own franchises, and from a studio perspective which would you rather do. Make three separate movies that barely make over 600 million combined, that end up costing you 300-400 million to make. Or, make one movie, spend 250 million and make a billion?

Outside of comic book nerds nobody cares about Captain America, Thor, and even the Hulk now. There movies didn't set the world on fire, and nobody was talking about them after they were released. Iron Man is fortunate to have a famous, likeable star as the lead.

But sorry dude as much as you don't want to believe Hollywood is all about the money, they are.
RidiculousFanBoyDemands
RidiculousFanBoyDemands - 3/12/2012, 10:10 AM
I'm talking about franchises, not just single movies. Superman is a billion dollar franchise if done right, just like Batman and Spider-man.

Captain America, The Hulk, Thor and Iron Man (after RDJ leaves) are not.
SuperMark
SuperMark - 3/12/2012, 10:48 AM
Reply to marvel72 - 3/11/2012, 2:49 PM
blade,ghost rider & punisher movie would be awesome

I can definitely see Blade and Ghost Rider; one of GR's demonic enemies recruits an evil vampire clan to carry out some evil shit; and it's Ghost Rider and Blade there to stop them. I don't even think they'd like each other! But they'd like the demons and vampires even less.
DylansMyDog
DylansMyDog - 3/12/2012, 11:41 AM
@RFBD if its math you should look at the numbers because IM and IM2 together as a franchise have grossed over $1 billion world wide. To say that Thor and Captain America aren't $1 billion franchises is a little premature as well since they haven't had one sequel yet.

Thor grossed $450 million, with Thor 2 in 2013 it could pass the $1 billion mark and certainly will when it completes the planned trilogy. CA:TFA grossed $370 million, which puts that franchise on track for $1 billion over its planned trilogy. If you look at the Marvel Cinematic Universe as a franchise it has grossed more than $2.2 billion all from films based on the solo adventures of Ironman, Cap, Thor and Hulk — a $2 billion franchise averaging $460 million per film.

Only one Batman movie and no Superman move has grossed more than $450 million for a single film. Of the six recent Batman films, they have grossed $2.6 million. Two Bat films (Batman Returns and Batman & Robin) made less at the box office than The Incredible Hulk. Three (Batman, Batman Forever, and Batman Begins) have made less than Thor and around the same as Captain America. Only The Dark Knight has made more than IM or IM2.

Supes has had one outing in the last 25 years and it grossed $390 million. I agree it could be a billion dollar franchise, but to say Thor or Cap can't when their movies make the same or more is dumb.

As for making "two movies that net you a billion dollars each" I think you need to look at how many movies do that. There have been 11 total movies to make over $1 billion ever. TDK is one of them, the 11th highest grossing movie. I would say that is the exception not the rule. That movie was great and deserved its success, but I wouldn't bet on every (or even most) Batman and Superman grossing that. They will probably continue to make what a successful CBM franchise makes $400 million to $500 million a movie - just like the Marvel Studios movies.

One hero or comic company isn't inherently better than another stop hating.
Coldblood6
Coldblood6 - 3/12/2012, 1:35 PM
So firstly let's get one thing straight, RFD is dc fanboy twerp who understands little to nothing and makes no sense when he says anything.

If you had said the same article 5 years ago then he would said the same thing about IRON MAN that he is now saying about other MARVEL characters. His opinion is the most irrelevant thing in the universe (closely followed by his pen!s).

Batman is a billion dollar franchise because HL died.

Superman is nowhere close to that. The only people interested in seeing another Superman movie are dc fanboys. This will be proven when MOS hits theatres next month. Keep in mind WB knows this and the only reason they are making one is because of rights issues.

Keep in mind all the last 3 Superman movies were complete failures.

THOR is now an established franchise. Just because a movie franchise isn't making a billion dollars per movie doesn't mean it's not a viable franchise. If so then only about 8 franchises in existance are worth making movies about.

Is everyone realising the high level of epic nonsense this guy spews out.
Coldblood6
Coldblood6 - 3/12/2012, 1:38 PM
Correction: when MOS hits theatres next year.
Coldblood6
Coldblood6 - 3/12/2012, 1:42 PM
Oh and Superman is not a fascinating character. 30 years ago maybe...but now he is just a tired, 'been there done that', lame, uninteresting, washed out, character that NOBODY cares about except for comicbook fanboys, mainly DC guys.

I guarantee that that THOR 2 will far outgross MOS next year.
Coldblood6
Coldblood6 - 3/12/2012, 1:43 PM
Oh and thanx RFD for outing yourself as a dipsh!t dc fanboy twerp who has just been trolling on MARVEL articles.
RidiculousFanBoyDemands
RidiculousFanBoyDemands - 3/12/2012, 6:29 PM
Lol sensitive much coldblood? The Avengers are Marvel's B List heroes, everybody knows that. Nobody outside hardcore fan boys can name any of their rogues, any major character story arcs, or basically anything about them.

Those that have to constantly make fun of someone, generally has nothing of value to say, and coldblood you have proven this to be true. I don't read comics, so I wouldn't call myself a Marvel or DC fanboy. I will occasionally read a trade or two, but only if it comes highly recommended. I'm just a fan of good cinema, and the only movie I thoroughly enjoyed from Marvel was Iron Man 1. The rest ranged from below average to okay. Deal with it dude people have different opinions, and The Avnegers are B-List characters by themselves, and A-lister's when teamed up.

You will never get a Justice League movie, and I for one am okay with that.
RidiculousFanBoyDemands
RidiculousFanBoyDemands - 3/12/2012, 6:32 PM
I never said they were BETTER, but there are hero's that the general public care about more. Thor, Captain America and Hulk aren't them. People like Batman, Spider-man, Superman and the X-Men (not first class, but with cyclops, Wolverine, storm etc.) more. The X-Men will never team up with the Avengers nor will Spider-man. I know they are different studios, but if Marveled owned them all they would never put them in a team up movie. It would be a waste of money. Same thing for a Superman Batman movie.
RidiculousFanBoyDemands
RidiculousFanBoyDemands - 3/12/2012, 6:37 PM
I guarantee that that THOR 2 will far outgross MOS next year.

Nope. Nobody cares about Thor, plus eventually you will see Avengers fatigue. People will grow tired of an Avenger movie every year and start to tune out. Every character regardless of how big they are have an over saturating point, and I fear that Iron Man will hit his next year along with Thor. Four movies with Iron Man playing a major role in them in six years is a bit much, and you will see as much in the returns. Sure the 8-14 year old demographic will show up, but nobody else really.

I look forward to The Avengers movie, and I will see it, and I expect it to be good, but to me those characters work better on a team, and not individually. They aren't compelling characters at all to me, and everyone else who aren't fans of the comics.
RidiculousFanBoyDemands
RidiculousFanBoyDemands - 3/12/2012, 6:39 PM
And obviously my opinion isn't irrelevant if it gets a rise out of you coldblooded. Generally the things that make us most angry, tend to be the things that are true. Remember that champ ;-).
Coldblood6
Coldblood6 - 3/13/2012, 6:26 AM
No dipsh!t.

Everything you have spewed out is your own personal warped opinion with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to back it up.

THE AVENGERS characters are B-list and that's the whole point of the this project. To take these characters and make them A-list through the same promotion that made characters like Batman A-list so many years ago. Things change dude, things change. That's the whole concept of life.

I absolutely guarantee again that that MOS will come and go without any fanfare. The general public has no ineterest in Superman anymore. Only comicbook fanboys give a damn about that movie. THOR will blow it out of the water BO-wise.

THOR made $450 million WW; is regarded as an very good to great CBM by most non-CB people that I know. Chris Hemsworth is THE rising male star in Hollywood, and his popularity and that of THOR will skyrocket after THE AVENGERS. THOR's rogue's gallery is beyond spectacular; far, far superior to Superman, and only beaten by Batman and probably Spiderman. You could easily make 10+ great movies with the rich mythology and fantastic rogues list of THOR. Evidence proves that you cant do anything with Supes beyond Lex Luthor and Zod.

Your opinion is irrelevant despite getting a rise out of me. Getting a rise out of me is nothing significant, and thus if that all your opinion accomplishes that's not much.

I'm not someone who ever gets angered by the truth, dude. I'm a hardcore realist whether or not the truth is in my favor or not. I deal with reality. What gets me angry the most is morons who proclaim their own silly and unfouded beliefs as the truth. You fall into that category.

Let's continue this conversation at the end of 2013 again. If I turn out to be wrong I will humbly admit that I was wrong. Will you be able to do this?
RidiculousFanBoyDemands
RidiculousFanBoyDemands - 3/13/2012, 10:13 AM
Hell yeah I will be. I don't want Marvel movies to fail, I just don't want them to over saturate the market and turn people off. At the rate they are going, they are going to risk just that.
SuperMark
SuperMark - 3/14/2012, 8:57 AM
See, mods don't always have to jump in when a debate gets heated, though I know the temptation was there. Two passionate fans may eventually start to work things out on their own, plus an issue gets discussed... as long as no one is getting beat up too bad. Actually a good debate; Just sayin'.
RidiculousFanBoyDemands
RidiculousFanBoyDemands - 3/16/2012, 12:40 AM
I agree SuperMark

That got pretty heated but it was all in good fun. I presented my case and coldblood presented his. I'm not going to report him for name calling. He was presenting his point of view, and sometimes emotions get the best of you. We will see who is right and who is wrong. I'm just very cynical of the movie industry so I will always look at movies with the glass half empty.
ComicGAGA
ComicGAGA - 3/22/2012, 11:30 PM
In answer to your other question, PD, there is no DC Marvel teamup movie I'd like to see.

Well, maybe a GOOD Punisher Batman teamup...

You know, with animation, maybe we could see MORE teamups and crossovers... Maybe it'd just be easier for the Big TWo to get behind that...
Briantattoo
Briantattoo - 7/1/2012, 8:06 PM
As long as each hero is getting their own spotlight within this single movie, it is all good, my man.
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