Thor, Movies, and Gods in the Marvel Universe: Are Even Fans Too Simple To Get IT?

Thor, Movies, and Gods in the Marvel Universe: Are Even Fans Too Simple To Get IT?

Since the conception of Marvel Studios' Thor, there has been so much conjecture about science vs. the mystical. But, do even the fans understand?

Editorial Opinion
By MaximusRodd - May 15, 2011 04:05 AM EST
Filed Under: Thor

I must admit, "Thor" is a confusing realm. He's not quite like the rest. It is, admittedly, a hard character and medium to work with. But, why? It's rather easy to blame the material, but maybe what needs to be looked at is the audience.

It's understandable. The popularity of Batman, the billionaire playboy and gritty anti-hero who uses a lot of tech, is undeniable. Then, there is the unquestionable popularity of the flashy billionaire playboy who uses even more tech, Iron Man. Does anyone see a connection? Is this the only realm of comic book movies that viewers will accept to challenge their imaginations? If it is, it seems like a very narrow margin to work with. It actually makes me sad for kids to come.

Then there's Thor, a character who stretches the imagination, yet has more founded, historical back story behind him than a multitude of superheroes. This is because he is the fusion of what Jung referred to as the god/superhero-type in modern society. For those of you who don't know to whom I referring, I mean Carl Jung. He was a brilliant behaviorist/psychologist who revolutionized the notion of archetypes. His theories, still world renowned today, said that our SUPERHEROES today serve the same function that The GODS served in ancient times. In Jungian terms, Thor fulfills both these perspectives, which is why I find the character brilliant.

There is no pretense of being "relatable" here. Thank, God. Relatable has been become the buzzword of the sophomoric, untalented critic... a by-word for pseudo-snobbishness when the ignorant wish to cast their aspersions on anything imaginative that tries to portray any amount of fantasy. These "critics," if they mattered in the past 400 years and had succeeded, would have killed hundreds of years of literature that have come to inspire hundreds of things that we have come to love: Comics, Heroes, Characters, Stories. Again, in the retrospect of history, they are toe-fungus.

"Relatable" is a word the dead-of-imagination use. When I was a child, we didn't want our superheroes to be "relatable." We wanted these gods to be awe-inspiring and uplifting. We didn't wish to lower Superman to our level. We wished to be elevated to his. So, gadgetry and anti-heroism may be an easy route, but we must see the difference. The beauty of superheroes is not wanting them to be like us, it is us wanting to be like them.

What if there are two worlds that share no physics, yet they share boundaries? Science might certainly try to explain that. Two dimensions, as it were, connected through a bridge. So many questions. Now I will go back to every one's conceptions and misconceptions about the Marvel Universe, gods, and their movies.

Asgardians, in Marvel, were worshipped as gods here once (the only intelligent line Darcy had in the movie). They are only "gods" because they came from another dimension closely linked to ours, have immense superhuman power, were worshiped by Vikings and influenced their culture. The opening scene in Norway agrees with this. This IS Marvel Canon. We might go into the Elder Gods territory and why the human-worship influenced their power, but we won't. We are talking about movie-going audiences that don't give a...

All mythological gods in the Marvel Universe stemming from real world history are explained this way. They are gods to man (especially ancient man) but have never claimed responsibility for the creation of humankind. None of them created man. They were created themselves. Each culture led themselves to believe that these entities were their creators, though. This is not a movie plot device; it was the way Lee and Kirby wrote it 45 years ago. IT IS MARVEL CANON.

Now,I will make clear my contentions with this film (which I LOVED both times I saw it 2D and 3D). During the film, they were too ambiguous as to whether they, the Asgardians, were intergalactic or extradimensional within the movie. Nick Fury's line in the end bit cleared that up when they talked about "Foster's Theory" and a dimensional gateway. Gods live, whether we want to believe or not.

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Ethic
Ethic - 5/15/2011, 5:15 AM
"We didn't want our superheroes to be "relatable." We wanted these gods to be awe-inspiring and uplifting."

"We didn't wish to lower Superman to our level. We wished to be elevated to his."

"The beauty of superheroes is not wanting them to be like us, it is us wanting to be like them."

These quotes sum up the exact reason I fell in love with the Superhero genre as a child.
I'm also incredibly tired of all the emphasis on making these characters "Relatable" because, more than often, it means to belittle or corrupt qualities that made them inspiring in the first place.

Obviously, I can appreciate the necessary relatable traits in heroes because we're talking about emotional, thinking beings operating in society, and they need to be challenged in all aspects at some point.
But when it comes to someone like Superman, it's his monumental moral compass that makes him so captivating.

Well written editorial man, I feel the same.
bkaado
bkaado - 5/15/2011, 7:21 AM
Awesome job man, you definitely set it straight. Even though Batman and Iron Man are "relatable," their actions spoke volumes, and elevated them to the same level as those who are powered.
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 5/15/2011, 7:59 AM
I would actually argue that Thor is relatable, not from an understanding of his world, but an understanding of his very human emotions. Branagh has talked a lot about the family dynamic in the movie. I don't think relatable always has to be this dirty word that means "easy for audiences to get what's going on in his world"
golden123
golden123 - 5/15/2011, 9:41 AM
Wow, I typed this comment that was well thought out and pretty well sized, yet it didn't show up. Anyways, my point was, Thor is a very fantastical film, but, at the same time, the asgardians had human attributes. The whole plot of Thor revolved around the humbling of this arrogant god and the jealousy of Loki.
InSpace
InSpace - 5/15/2011, 10:49 AM
All heroes are relatable when stripped of their god-like powers....they ALL follow some human dynamic and problem people have faced, Thor:A son is shunned by his father, and must make up for it
Batman: Parents were killed when he was a child now he seeks to make justice of their names
Superman: Person from foreign area is forced upon a weird place he calls home and defends it
Cap:Soldier coming home and must adapt to how the world is now

Iron Man:Seeks retribution for his actions from his company makes right by saving world


ALL heroes are relatable and that little human dynamic is why we (well me anyways) love superheroes. Theyre just plain old regular people who just happen to have god-like abilities........
Paulley
Paulley - 5/15/2011, 2:54 PM
Actually i remember reading several issue of Thor / Hurcules comics where there top gods say that they created earth and man... but yes in more modern/excepted canon we treated them like they where and made stories regarding them etc etc... which works so much better for me
MaximusRodd
MaximusRodd - 5/15/2011, 4:40 PM
I love that many of you agree that Branagh highlighted the human element. That was part of my point. It is the essence of what does make any hero's story evoke emotion in the audience (reader or viewer). But, when I was railing against "relatability", I was referring to those who would use that term to dismiss such material without acknowledging the very human emotions involved behind the characters. Classic case in point, read Roger Ebert's review of Thor. I entitle it, "The Old Man Who Doesn't Get It."

@ZeroEthic: You not only quoted, but took with you what I feel were the most important messages from what I wrote. Thank you.
ThreeBigTacos
ThreeBigTacos - 5/15/2011, 7:02 PM
I want this on the Main page. This is wonderfully written, and such a great read. For future reference, reading this in Stan Lee's voice is awesome too :P

Thank you again for this good article. I've enjoyed all the points, especially when they've hit home with me.
MaximusRodd
MaximusRodd - 5/15/2011, 7:25 PM
@ThreeBigTacos: Thank you, that means a lot. How do I get it on the main page?
Wadey09
Wadey09 - 5/15/2011, 9:17 PM
@Maximus
this was a cool article that gets back to basics the essence of the super hero. arguably the most in depth article about Thor fan and audience reaction i've read to date.

but you do not get the article on the main page. the editors do that.
lets hope that they see the awesomeness of this article.
Paulley
Paulley - 5/16/2011, 2:23 AM
I love the idea of a small child in ancient times reading a comic-book about Hurcules and such.

haha but yea Gods were so much more intresting and had more human story elements back then.. look at some of the Celtic religions we had gods for everything and they all had intresting stories behind them...

Now look what we are left with, two or three "gods" which only seem to provoke people to hate each other...
getdaball1
getdaball1 - 5/16/2011, 4:59 AM
This is an awesome read - yeah - not an easy concept to bring to the big screen- but so glad they did- FINALLY!!
Orphix
Orphix - 5/16/2011, 6:18 AM
When writers/directors, etc use the term relatable they are refering to emotions, flaws, human failings, etc. They certainly aren't refering to their imaginations as you seem to be suggesting in your article.

If they did then all directors would be like Ken Loach...and all audiences would sit down and love them.

But that doesn't happen. We get all sorts of films using all sorts of worlds and characters.

Thor still has to be 'relatable'. He needs to connect with his audience so we care about him. When we see Thor in danger we need to worry about him. When he does something wrong we need to be angry with him, etc.

Where he comes from, what his powers are and how he looks have nothing to do with the 'relatable' argument. So to call anyone who uses the term a "sophomoric, untalented critic" is way too harsh. And people shouldn't be any doubt that Thor is in danger of becoming two dimensional in the film. I think Hemsworths performance, however, saves him from this.

My main problem with the whole world they built up (on a boring practical point) is that how could Viking culture worship Thor as the god of thunder and Loki as the god of mischeif if they hadn't been born yet? At the beginning of the film Odin is doing his whole exposition thing about the Frost Giants in the 10th century by telling his kids about it??
thunderforce
thunderforce - 5/16/2011, 8:50 AM
Awesome article , it does seem as though people either get Thor or don't , I am one who does .
Orphix
Orphix - 5/16/2011, 9:09 AM
Okay - maybe I should have been a bit clearer. But by writer/directors, etc I did mean the movie industry in general which, to me, would include critics.

Of course what someone finds 'relateble' or 'empathetic' is always up for discussion cos it is so subjective.

And if a critic does use 'relatable' as a buzzword then they aren't really a critic. At least not a very knowledgable one - especially if they are 'sophomoric' and 'untalented'. And when you refer to Roger Ebert in a later post thats very unfair. Fair enough if you don't agree with his review - and he is many things BUT he ain't sophomoric or untalented. I don't agree with him all the time but one of his favourite films is Dark City! A science fiction film that is way ahead of it's time with it's ideas, design and imagination so he isn't someone who doesn't 'get it' if it has fantastical elements.

He just didn't happen to like Thor.

"Every character has emotions unless they are automatons. That should be assumed." Bad assumption. It is the writers job to create the characters and a cast that challenges and compliments itself. Just by showing an emotion doesn't mean that an audiance feels and relates to it. A character can be angry or sad or happy but that doesn't make them three dimensional - which is when a character starts to become truly relatable.

CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/16/2011, 10:00 AM
Just because someone might not like the God-type character does not mean they have no imagination. I don't like Superman because I feel he's too overpowered, and I'm never really in fear of him losing. Its not that I don't "get it", I just don't care too much for overpowered characters. That doesn't make me "simple", as you put it. Its just my tastes.

Carl Jung may have been a genius, but thats a ridiculous claim to make.
CraptainAmerica
CraptainAmerica - 5/16/2011, 11:42 AM
@Maximus. Really great article. This is main page stuff. It did hit the nail on the head for those of us who 'got' the film.

Although I actually did find Thor 'relatable' in the case of the family dynamic. That was a connection i think resonated with me and others I know who enjoyed it. Obviously not relatable in the sense it was based in reality.
sinchsw
sinchsw - 5/24/2011, 10:17 AM
Actually Odin DOES claim that he created the earth and men in Straczynski's new run on Thor.
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