PUNISHER Showrunner Steve Lightfoot Explains Why He Likes Having Thirteen Episodes Instead Of Ten

PUNISHER Showrunner Steve Lightfoot Explains Why He Likes Having Thirteen Episodes Instead Of Ten

One common complaint leveled at Marvel's Netflix series has been their 13-episode seasons, and now the Punisher's Steve Lightfoot explains why he prefers this to the alternative of having just 10 episodes.

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By VHernandez - Jul 04, 2018 10:07 AM EST
Filed Under: The Punisher
Fans have certainly critiqued Marvel’s Netflix series for a variety of reasons, but one frequent complaint has had to do with the 13-episode seasons most of the shows have, something many feel negatively affects the stories they are telling.

However, during a recent chat with Collider, Punisher showrunner Steve Lightfoot addressed the tradition of having thirteen episodes and the request from some fans to reduce the episode count to ten a season.

"It’s an interesting thing, that. People have always said to me, ‘Do you wish you’d have had 10?’ and then I say, ‘Well then you would’ve had less story.’" Lightfoot then went on to say he intended Punisher to have a slower pace and utilize every episode. "I always wanted it to be a slow burn show. I always felt like we had the right amount for 13, and you’ve gotta have enough story for that but I like how slow burn and character-driven the shows are.”

The showrunner’s comment about the importance of making sure you have a story that works for a thirteen-episode season is certainly a valid one. After all, The Defenders had only had eight episodes but it still had elements that turned some fans off to the show.

Anyway, what do you folks make of these comments? Do you like that the majority of the Marvel series have thirteen episodes? Make sure to comment below.
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ScarletWarlock
ScarletWarlock - 7/4/2018, 10:38 AM
I gotta be honest. Episodes 2-9 felt entirely like filler. A lot of the sub plots just felt so subpar and not in the vein of Punisher to me. Micro's wife trying to bone Frank went on for TOO long. But............a lot of people seemed to like it. I enjoyed the first episode the most. It felt the most tonally in line with the character they established in DD s2, an unhinged, sociopath. But then they really lean into the military and patriotism, and that sort of unhinged, boogeyman effect to Frank disappeared. Just watch episode 3 of DD s2 and compare it to how he deals with citizens in Punisher. It's literally not even the same character.
ATrueHero1987
ATrueHero1987 - 7/4/2018, 10:45 AM
Not a fan of the "slow-burn" approach. To this day, DD season 1 was perfect as far as pacing wise for me.
Spock0Clock
Spock0Clock - 7/4/2018, 10:46 AM
I think the "episode number argument" isn't all that helpful, especially for streaming services where episode length is flexible. You can go fast or slow with whatever number you have. The bigger concern is the conception of the season and the preferences/capabilities of the writers and producers.

As an aside, I would like to see a Marvel Netflix show operate as an episodic series, just to play with the format. One whole season to deal with one or two big bads works, but it's not conducive to the most dynamic stories.
Chewtoy
Chewtoy - 7/4/2018, 12:38 PM
@Spock0Clock - Yeah, that's my conclusion as well... These seasons would work better broken into multiple arcs at least, maybe with one overriding one simmering in the background for the finale.

I watched Luke Cage Season 2 while I worked, and I never looked at the episode list. I was deep into it and thought it was pretty great and surely building to a climax, but it turns out I was maybe just over halfway through and so things needed to keep ping-ponging back and forth with who was ascending and who was on the run for so long that the end was a relief rather than a great climax.

And again, the characters of these shows just beg for some more episodic content... a lawyer, a P.I., some heroes for hire, and a guy who targets criminals... it's the easiest thing in the world to write them new, separate plotlines rather than having everything have to be linked together.
TheDarkPassenger
TheDarkPassenger - 7/4/2018, 10:47 AM
Seeing how I was bored to death during the Punisher, no...I don't think more is better.

Season 1 of Daredevil is the only Marvel Netflix show that utilized the time it had effectively the entire duration. It's constantly moving and engaging the whole time. With Punisher there's just too much of people sitting around bullshitting about stuff I haven't been given a reason to care about. Its a bare bones story being stretched over too large of a canvas to the point where it tears. I love Bernthal in the role, he's brilliant, but it doesn't matter when there's long periods of time of nothing happening.
TheSanitizer
TheSanitizer - 7/4/2018, 10:47 AM
There’s a difference between slow paced character development and filler paced episodes. And almost all the Netflix Marvel shows have been bogged down by filler scenes.
Every show could easily be edited down to eight eps. And it would pace so much better.
GhostDog
GhostDog - 7/4/2018, 10:50 AM
@TheSanitizer - 8 episodes didn't help Defenders at all.

Episode count doesnt matter. Just tell a well crafted, well paced story.
ScarletWarlock
ScarletWarlock - 7/4/2018, 10:59 AM
@BlackBeltJones - I half agree about Defenders. It obviously was a fault of the writer's room, but could you imagine 5 more episodes like episode 7 where they were clearly just biding their time to get to the finale. Literally, episode 7 is just simply Luke, Jessica and Matt leaving the Harlem precinct and going to the parking garage of the building in the finale. And you're just like, there's 4 heroes, 8 episodes, and this is suppose to be your big, epic crossover, and this is the most you muster in some of your episodes? So, yeah, writing is a big issue, but I definitely think 8 episodes averted them from outstaying their welcome more than it already did, and I say this as someone who enjoyed Defenders.
GhostDog
GhostDog - 7/4/2018, 11:13 AM
@ScarletWarlock - I dont think 5 more episodes would've helped eeither.

The story sucked and that was the primary issue.

No stupid dragon bones. Actual Ninjas like in DD. No Sigoruney Weaver and her need to be immortal. No Black Sky.

I liked Defenders up until epiaode 5. At least, it was enjoyable until then for me.

It was not what I imagined when I thought of ehat I wanted when these guys teamed up. I think it was doomed once they made decisions like making Elektra Black Sky, The Hand a bunch of immortality craving bores, and Danny such an ineffective Iron Fist.
ScarletWarlock
ScarletWarlock - 7/4/2018, 11:22 AM
@BlackBeltJones - I pretty much have the same feelings as you. It was genuinely good for the first few. I liked it up until Stick died, but even that episode felt like things were slowing down and the whole appeal of them being together was fading because they were doing nothing interesting with them as a group. The convoluted Hand stuff is definitely what crippled the show though. I do hope when and if they do a second season, that they get a different showrunner and they just simply offer up a completely new villain instead of not delivering on build up that felt like it was there simply because of the comics. Give whoever's in charge free reign to do a fun, summer event.
TheSanitizer
TheSanitizer - 7/4/2018, 12:00 PM
@BlackBeltJones -
Yeah, but 13 eps for Defenders would have been hell. The story sucked but at least it was dragging.
Of course it’s comes down to the writers. And so far all the shows have been poorly handled in the writing dept.
They simply don’t know what do, and those stories suffer and drag.
At least having 8 eps would force them to create tighter stories.
SimpleeComplex
SimpleeComplex - 7/4/2018, 1:08 PM
@BlackBeltJones - I think 0 episodes of Defenders would have worked. That show to me was so under whelming.
GhostDog
GhostDog - 7/4/2018, 10:49 AM
Whispers: 13 episodes...

Everyone:
PewPewPew
PewPewPew - 7/4/2018, 10:55 AM
Maybe he likes having more episodes because he gets paid for more episodes?
MrCamw1
MrCamw1 - 7/4/2018, 10:59 AM
Love them or hate them, at least nine I'd these shows are 20+ episodes and that works fine.
MrCamw1
MrCamw1 - 7/4/2018, 10:59 AM
*none of
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