BVS: Dispelling Ludicrous Claims

BVS: Dispelling Ludicrous Claims

One of the most highly anticipated films in history hasn't reached the theater yet and already many have a handful of outrageous, unfounded criticism. It is time they are educated.

Editorial Opinion
By Shield23 - Jan 04, 2016 09:01 AM EST
Filed Under: Batman vs. Superman

You know, I had no idea just how annoyingly clueless and impulsively blunt people could be until just a few years ago and each day since then, I have been more than surprised by their presence all over the internet. For this occasion, I am speaking of the people who have not only made their hatred towards MOS and/or everything Superman related known, but are basing what they think is going to happen in BVS solely on this hatred; not providing any proof to these claims such as:

1. They brought in Batman because MOS sucked

2. Chris Terrio will fix all of MOS' mistakes

3. Martha Kent is still cold and heartless

4. They have to have Batman win because he is more popular and the movie is based on "The Dark Knight Returns"

5. They are addressing the MOS destruction because of fan reactions

Though part of me feels this will be a pointless endeavor, I will see if I can reach out to people who aren't above reason. And thanks goes to @EricBorder for his assistance and references when I began writing this.

 

1. They brought in Batman because MOS sucked

See now, I HAD to address this one first because this is the most common (and stupid) claim, as Batman was in the plans for the sequel before MOS even came out. Evidence supporting this is that on 06/10/2013, just four days before MOS was released, the sequel was greenlit. On 07/20/2013, just a month and six days after MOS was released (and exactly one day shy of the end of MOS' full three-month theater run on 09/19/2013), it was announced at comic-con that Batman was being introduced in a cinematic format in this sequel. That being said, Batman wasn't brought in by the "money-hungry studio executives who felt Man of Steel didn't bring in big bucks like Batman". This was clearly planned even before MOS came out like I said. Last-minute, rushed ideas aren't WB's thing this time around. Just as well, we were informed of what to expect from MOS YEARS in advance; Zack Snyder telling us on 10/15/2010 that MOS wouldn't be based off of any comic in particular and Dylan Sprayberry telling us on 04/11/2012 that MOS would be far edgier, dramatic, and more serious than any form of Superman film media to date. Further evidence of Batman's appearance in the sequel is that in the actual MOS film, Batman references were made in the form of "Keep Calm and Call Batman" and The Wayne Enterprises satellite destroyed by Zod; the only other references being consistently conveyed like that in the film are for LEXCORP. Eventually, Zack decided to reveal the truth about Batman's appearance via this quote on 04/18/2014 titled, "Zack Snyder explains how Batman ended up in the Man of Steel sequel",

"After Man of Steel finished and we started talking about what would be in the next movie, I started subtly mentioning that it would be cool if he faced Batman... You're in a story meeting talking about, like, who should [Superman] fight if he fought this giant alien threat Zod who was basically his equal physically, from his planet, fighting on our turf... You know, who to fight next?... But I'm not gonna say at all that when I took the job to do Man of Steel that I did it in a subversive way to get to Batman. I really believe that only after contemplating who could face [Superman] did Batman come into the picture."

Zack deeply cares about Superman and his MOS film, as did many people contrary to popular belief. Saying it sucked is a question of opinion amongst Donner fans, random critics, followers of the old school boy-scout Supes, and ultimately the people who ACTUALLY follow the comics. Ignoring them, the general movie-going audience pretty much loved it. Sure the critics gave it an average score, but who cares about critics? They are just snooty/stiff people who get paid to voice their opinion, which doesn't matter in the long run. It's the opinions of the audience that matters, as we are the ones expending all of the money to go see the film, thus giving the company a reward for their investment. As for the audience's rating for MOS, it was an A to A- on a scale of A+ to F. Which means, no matter what the detractors say, MOS is in fact a hit for many and was never in any danger of being upstaged by the cinematic return of Batman. Besides, I would hardly say a movie that grossed more than $668 million is generally unappealing or a failing disappointment; especially when it outgrossed every prior Superman film (obviously), the origin/reboot film Batman Begins ($372 million), and every Marvel Origin film (Iron Man-$585.2 million, The Incredible Hulk-$263.4 million, Thor-$449.2 million, Cap: TFA-$370.6 million, and Ant-Man's $519.3 million; it also made more than Iron man 2's $623.9 million, but that isn't an origin story, so it doesn't count).

2. Chris Terrio will fix all of MOS' mistakes

I actually hadn't heard this one too much, but I've heard it enough to want to include it in this article. Terrio is a great writer, having scripted "Argo" and all. But I would hardly say he was brought in to replace Goyer due to his so-called failure with writing MOS (even the critics I refuse to listen to praised Goyer's MOS script among other things). And what makes people think retconning or re-explaining what people considered to be flaws and plotholes in MOS are an option when the man who directed it is also directing BVS and has gotten away with other fan disapprovals such as casting Ben Affleck, Gal Gadot, and Jesse Eisenberg in addition to his earlier getting his way with Superman killing Zod? That's just not smart thinking. And in any case, Terrio replaced Goyer because Goyer had commitments to other projects as stated in an article on 12/18/2013 titled, "Batman VS. Superman script getting rewrite by Argo writer".

3. Martha Kent is still cold and heartless

For some reason, this one infuriates me more than the others and yet, it is only number 3. MOS detractors have made it clear that one of the things they detested the most was the portrayal of Jonathan and Martha Kent and I myself defended the portrayal like many others by saying they were simply being portrayed as parents who put their child before anything and everything else; as any true parent would. Jonathan Kent received most of the hate in MOS, but because he is now deceased, that hatred seems to be descended upon Martha due to the one line she has in the second BVS trailer being something many don't at all agree with,

Martha: People hate what they don't understand. Be their hero, Clark. Be their angel. Be their monument. Be whatever they need you to be…or be none of it. You don't owe this world a thing. You never did.

From a close-minded perspective, that may be cold and heartless, but it isn't. That is an example of a mother talking to her son, not a woman talking to her hero. Martha is the type who wouldn't tell her son to do something simply because he has the ability to do it. She would only advise and support his decision no matter what it is and love him regardless of the outcome. Know what that's called? A mother. A true mother. I know. I was raised primarily by mine.

And Martha is darn right that Superman doesn't owe the world anything. He didn't ask to be born. He didn't ask to be sent to Earth. He didn't ask to be given power. To top it all off, he has dealt with much ridicule and criticism throughout his life, yet that never stopped him from saving us all in MOS and like how he is still doing 18 months later in BVS.


4. They have to have Batman win the fight because he is more popular and the movie is based on "The Dark Knight Returns"

This one doesn't enrage me as much as the Martha Kent criticism, but believe me, that doesn't mean it doesn't make me angry either. How many times does Zack have to tell people that BVS is only inspired by TDKR, not adapted from it? Inspired means he is just taking ideas from the comic (like the fact that this is an older/experienced Batman with a metallic suit and a conflict with Superman) while treating the film as its own. He made this clear on multiple occasions. At one point, he even said that he is a big fan of TDKR and that incarnation of Superman (even if he is inaccurately portrayed), but he also said that he used that particular version of the big guy as a means to understand what NOT to do with him in the DCEU. This was made clear as well when in MOS, Superman trashed a surveillance drone in front of Swanwick and told him to back off of trying to spy on him, as he is going to work on his terms only. Here's a quote from Snyder concerning the BVS and TDKR comparisons; released on 11/12/2013…

"If you were going to do that, you would need a different Superman. We're bringing Batman into the universe that now this Superman lives in."

The thing that makes me even angrier than the above claim is the popularity bullcrap. Seriously? Comics and video games are one thing, but film is something else entirely. They are not going to make Superman look like a joke for the sake of making Batman look good. That's ridiculous. And may I remind people that this new cinematic iteration of Batman will actually be closer to the comic book version unlike all of his previous movie portrayals (even though he is rumored to take great delight in torturing criminals and is an actual playboy as opposed to pretending to be one to throw off suspicion). That being said, here is a little education for the fanboys who don't read comics and are only into Batman for the video games and Nolan films. Comics Batman, though incredibly awesome, is well-aware of his limitations and constantly refers to others, particularly Superman. Batman is also the one who gets roughed up and captured the most and is often portrayed as only a part-time League member, preferring to stay in Gotham most of the time. In addition, the majority of Batman's greatest feats involve his surviving, not winning. Also, contrary to popular belief, in comics, Batman's plans don't always work and he doesn't always have time to plan, hence why he has to rely on tactics as opposed to strategy.

BVS' Batman will have a plan against Superman and he will most definitely prove himself formidable to the unsuspecting novice protector of Metropolis, but don't think that means the Dark Knight won't get roughed up as well.

5. They are addressing the MOS destruction because of fan reactions

Now this…this is ignorance at its absolute finest. I am not going to waste my time again explaining to clueless detractors how mass destruction is recurring in Superman comics just like it was in MOS. Instead, I am going to get right to the point and say this claim is 110% WRONG. Zack Snyder said at the very beginning that he always intended to cause an incredible amount of destruction and casualties and explain it later. The day he truly clarified this was on 08/29/2013, just two months and slightly less than two weeks after MOS came out. This clarification is under the title, "Zack Snyder talks Superman's dilemma and the mass destruction in Man of Steel" and the entire article can be found on Screenrant. But to save you some trouble, here's what Snyder had to say on 08/29/2013 concerning the destruction being in his plan:

"I wanted the movie to have a mythological feeling. In ancient mythology, mass deaths are used to symbolize disasters. In other countries like Greece and Japan, myths were recounted through generations, partly to answer unanswerable questions about death and violence. In America, we don't have that legacy of ancient mythology. Superman (who first appeared in 1938) is probably the closest thing we get. It's a way of recounting the myth."

However, in a recent-ish interview, he has come forth about the destruction in MOS serving a purpose beyond spectacle. This interview occurred on 07/05/2015. Zack Snyder said and I quote in reference to the destruction in MOS,

"I was surprised because that's the thesis of Superman for me, that you can't just have superheroes knock around and have there be no consequences."

The full interview can be found under the title, "Zack Snyder defends Man of Steel ending". Also, on 06/27/2013, just one day shy of two weeks after MOS came out, Zack spoke of his plans concerning the ramifications of MOS' events in an article titled "Zack Snyder talks Man of Steel Sequel; Hints at Lex Luthor and Kryptonite in the Future". Even Batman himself Ben Affleck said that the destruction plays a big part and it is one of the main reasons he was attracted to the project. Having his interview the same day as Zack, Ben said and I quote:

"One of the things I liked was Zack's idea of showing accountability and the consequences of violence and seeing that there are real people in those buildings. And in fact, one of those buildings was Bruce Wayne's building so he knew people who died in that Black Zero event."

I really shouldn't be surprised by the amount of ignorance given the fact that BVS is a film built on the foundation of MOS, a film only half the cinematic audience and comics fandom appreciates. But, as I pointed out just now, FACTS ARE FACTS.

Voice your opinions at the bottom.

 

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Darktower
Darktower - 1/4/2016, 10:25 AM



Beautiful!! great article!!!

One of the best article about Mos.

Regardless, the haters who are filled with ignorance and Hypocrisy will never agree, even with solid facts!.
Now for ppl like we have a name... Delusional !!
or just plain ignorances.

3 more months baby!!
Darktower
Darktower - 1/4/2016, 10:41 AM
@Jojuliz88
yes denial for sure,but with no facts to support ur claims, whats the point.
Reasonnnn
Reasonnnn - 1/4/2016, 2:14 PM
Who the hell praised Goyer's script?

/crediblity
Forthas
Forthas - 1/4/2016, 2:23 PM
I disagree with every point in this article with one exception…

1) They brought in Batman because MOS sucked.
Just because they green lit a sequel early just means that they saw the movie would be profitable. Fair enough…but that does not mean that Batman was in those plans. The more likely original thought is that they would try to replicate the success of the Dark Knight Trilogy with Superman solo films. By your own admission the inclusion of Batman was after a month when MOS was in theaters. That is plenty of time to project how the film will end up at the box office thus the (in my opinion) change in direction.

2) Chris Terrio will fix all of MOS' mistakes
This is probably true also. Terrio has only written two films in his career. One was not received that well and the other Argo is and adaptation of an existing story...so the credit he gets for it is WAY overblown. Maybe those are the qualities that get people jobs on high profile/huge budget movies at Warner Brothers but I doubt a studio like Disney of Fox would have entertained someone that unproven…unless story is not really what Warner Brother wants but rather they want visual eye candy. This as all of the indications of someone with a relationship with the studio (read cronyism) who will just do what he is told.

3) Martha Kent is still cold and heartless
I agree with you here!

4) They have to have Batman win the fight because he is more popular and the movie is based on "The Dark Knight Returns"
Whether or not Batman “wins”, the fact of the matter is that is a pointless confrontation. Everyone with at least two working brain cells understands that Batman on his best day could never beat Superman. That fact that they want to somehow show that Batman is in the same league as Superman…heck even Wonder Woman… is insulting to a lot of people. It is in full display when at the end of the most recent trailer, Batman is holding a gun (in some attempt to make him seem relevant) or the fact he had to be saved by Wonder Woman (who did not have to save Superman since as you can see he took some of the brunt of the blast in the trailer and withstood it).

5. They are addressing the MOS destruction because of fan reactions
This is almost certainly the case. There is destruction in A LOT of superhero movies although not on the scale Zack Snyder delivered. You never see them revisit that in other stories. In X-Men they show the rebuilding of the Golden Gate Bridge at the end of the movie in which it was destroyed. The Dark Knight Trilogy does not focus on the events after Gotham was gassed and the train destroyed. It is forgotten. It had to be addressed in man of Steel because it was so massive and such a central controversy of MOS (a movie I relatively liked by the way). There is no way it was not a result of the massive criticism the movie received.
Matador
Matador - 1/4/2016, 2:44 PM
Wow I thought there be more conversation going on to read.

MOS destruction or Godzilla destruction or it's just Detroit
silverkid85
silverkid85 - 1/4/2016, 5:43 PM
@ Forthas

You're totally wrong in everything you wrote and pretty self-contradictory!

1) The Batman V Superman movie is a project that the WB is trying to do since the time of the awful Batman and Robin. It was in the plans since then and it was meant to be a way to give a new start to both the Batman and Superman franchises (more or less as they're doing now). Then, things go differently, with finally Nolan taking on the new standalone trilogy of the Dark Knight. However, you can see a reference to this movie in a scene of Hancock (if I'm not wrong the movies were going to have the same producers!). Moreover, after Superman Returns failed, WB pressed to start a new franchise with the Justice League, that was meant to exist in a different cinematic universe with respect to the Dark Knight and have no relation with it! Most of all, they wanted to do this without tie-in movies dedicated to each member of the League, as Marvel did. Then again, things went differently, because of the great success of the Nolan movies and, I guess, because also they hoped that in someway Nolan could put is creative talent in more larger projects involving DC comics properties (in a role similar to what Feige is for Marvel). But there's more! Zack Snyder, long before being announced as the director of MOS, in an interview, expressed the interested to work on Batman (you can find it somewhere on the web), once the Nolan trilogy was ended. And you know what he said?!? He said that if he had the chance to make a film to give a new version of Batman, he would have done Franck Miller's the Dark Knight Returns! Finally, MOS was certainly a good movie, not the greatest, but it grossed more than the first two Iron-Man movies, the first two Thor movies, the first Captain America, and the other X-men movies. How can you say it sucked?!?

2) Chris Terrio was indeed a right choice, and you just said it! Because, as you recalled, his unique and greatest success was the adaptation of a book, for which he wins an Oscar! This means, he has talent in adapting stories someone else wrote, if you know what I mean!.So, what a better choice to re-write a movie, already written by someone else and based on comic characters, with years and years of stories in their background, that more or less everybody knows? The point is that he can really make the difference in giving a faithful representation of the characters and, most of all, succeed where Goyer failed in MOS!

3) The potraial of Martha Kant is maybe one of the things that Goyer and Snyder missed in MOS, but it is not the worst and I find the critics excessive. And, I can still not understand why people use to judge a movie, just because they don't like the previous one or one of its character?!? We don't know how she will act in this movie.

4) If you had read some comics (but I guess you know very little about them, as all the other things that I wrote till now) you should know who Batman is and what he can do. It is not a matter of popularity! But Batman is what he is, because he's one of the smartest man in the world (maybe the smartest!). This guy is the only one who can stand a chance to knock out, not only Superman, but the whole Justice League! Now, I don't know how things will be set up in this movie, but if this Batman is based on the Frank Miller's character, he is really someone who has nothing to fear and to care of, and that is crazy enough to start a fight against a god-like being as Superman and whoever he may think is a menace for the human race! You know, that's why Batman is a superhero without having any superpower!

5) That's your most contradictory comment! You criticized that showing Batman going against Superman is something unrealistic, because he doesn't stand a chance of success. And then you say that making a movie on the consequences of the destruction caused by the first alien that the world has ever known is pointless?!? Man, are you suffering of bipolar disorders? The fact the no other comic movie has dealt with the consequences of the biblical actions occurred in the previoues ones is not exact and doesn't mean that this cannot be done in this movie. It is not exact, because many of the films you cited, indeed instead deal with this. This is true almost for every Marvel movie, that have consequences in the following movies and the TV series (see the battle of New York after the Avengers how changed the world and movies themselves, and oh...have you seen Daredevil or Jessica Jones, or Agents of Shield?!?). But this is true, for example, also for the Dark Knight trilogy (I have to remember you that, in Batman Begins, the Scarecrow gas and the train involved only the small Narrows island and not the whole city!!!), where both the Dark Knight and the Dark Knight rises involve the consequences of what happened in the previous film! Nothing is forgotten as you wrote!

So, the next time you want to write stupid comments (that no cinematic studios will certainly take care of!) driven only by your useless hate towards a movie and characters that you may not like, please, think twice and find a more profitable way to waste your time. XD
Matador
Matador - 1/4/2016, 7:57 PM
@JaredsJoker - I don't know man comedic destruction does win me over sometimes cause it's funny, you know.


Shield23
Shield23 - 1/4/2016, 9:21 PM
@Frothas


Dude, if you disagree with my facts, that's fine. But could you at least do what I did and provide references, titles, dates, and evidence to back you up? Or did you even bother to seek out the sources I supplied? Because you clearly didn't, I can't take your rebuttal seriously.





1. While it is true they originally intended to have another Superman film and decided instead to focus on building a cinematic universe based around Superman's Man of Steel film, Zack's quote about "subtly mentioning that it would be cool to see him face Batman" right "after Man of Steel finished" means Snyder has had Batman on the brain for a while, even if he let it slip only a little. After Man of Steel finished CLEARLY means he was speaking about finishing up shooting and post-production of MOS, still quite some time before the release. And with all of those references they threw in MOS compared to TDKT, you'd be crazy to believe that there isn't a bigger world out there. Why settle for another Superman film in the vein of TDKT when you can FINALLY do what you've always dreamed and bring these comics to life on the big screen?


2. You missed my point. The point is Terrio isn't patching up perceived plotholes and accused flaws from MOS; not while Zack, who directed MOS as well as BVS, is still in keeping with his vision.

3. Good to know! LOL!

4. The confrontation isn't really pointless. Their conflict is more philosophical than physical, anyway, so I don't get why people think it's all about them duking it out. But my point here was that people who expect Batman to win simply because they like him (or rather subversions of him like in TDKT) are seriously kidding themselves. And have you done your research? It was explained a while back that Batman in the DCEU has a history with fighting and defeating super-powered beings (the one's featured in Suicide Squad in particular). Granted Superman is world's more powerful than any of them, Batman's clearly-evident pride and paranoia in this film are going to prevent him from seeing the truth and attempt to win against Superman to satisfy his own philosophical (and somewhat psychological) belief system.


5. I wasn't talking about other superhero movies, I was talking about Superman comics. MOS is a comics accurate film on so many levels. In Superman comics, ESPECIALLY during alien invasions and super-powered battles that feature Superman, things are ALWAYS getting trashed and people are ALWAYS put in danger and killed whether you see it or not. In the comics, specifically after "The Death of Superman" some time after Superman came back, there was even a guy who wanted revenge on Superman due to his destructive battle with Doomsday resulted in, among many other people, the man's wife being killed. Everything Zack said concerning the destruction and how to address it was right on the money. I take it you don't read comics, as this disagreement of yours, "There is no way it was not a result of the massive criticism the movie received", CLEARLY means you don't know as much about Superman as you might think. In his comics, especially the big battles, there is always a consequence afterwards and MOS clearly respected the comics on many levels and is continuing to do so. And don't forget Zack's speaking of how he wanted a mythological feeling for MOS and that Superman would likely be the closest thing to that.
Shield23
Shield23 - 1/4/2016, 9:34 PM
@Reasonnnn

Most professional critics praised the writing, acting, visuals, music, and even the overall reinterpretation of Superman; their only criticisms being pacing and lack of character development.
SpideySupes94
SpideySupes94 - 1/4/2016, 11:20 PM
@Shield23

WHAT WORKED :

Henry Cavill as Kal-El/Clark Kent/Superman :

Henry Cavill in my opinion is perhaps one of the best superhero casting decisions that I’ve seen since Chris Hemsworth got casted as THOR. Of course, I still love Christopher Reeve but the fact is that Cavill’s superman has the physicality that would make anyone who looks at his body go, “Now, THAT is Superman!” although it is quite sad that the script doesn’t give Cavill enough opportunities to showcase his true potential. Although, there is this one particular bar scene which I felt, was done really well and also felt like a good throwback to a similar scene in Superman II.

Flying Sequences:

There is only one word to describe the flying sequences of superman in this film: Badass. Never since the first Iron Man movie have I ever felt such an urge to take to the sky as I had after watching the exhilarating flying sequences in this film.

The Action….For the most part:

The action sequences are undoubtedly brilliant in this film. In fact, I at times felt that the filmmakers were trying to compensate for the lack of super fight scenes in almost all the previous Superman films perhaps, they were also a bit overcompensating but I’ll get to the negatives later.

Krypton :

The entire prologue set on the planet krypton was great. The reason being that in this film, we had the chance to see krypton as living, breathing planet rather than just a lump of crystals put together. I just wish that the set designers had put in enough effort to make the planet look less like an AVATAR clone but apart from that, the entire buildup and showcasing Jor-El as a badass was IMO an ace move.

The Soundtrack:

Now, let’s get something straight, for me at least, the John Williams score will always remain the definitive superman score. I’ve always felt that it captures the essence of what it means to be a character like superman. Having said that, Hans Zimmer does not disappoint with his exhilarating and inspiring soundtrack. If you have doubts, Go to YouTube, type in ‘Flight-Man of Steel OST’ and enjoy.

The Ending :

Now, a lot of people have some qualms about the ending, where Supes breaks Zod’s neck to prevent him from burning down a family, seeing it as huge violation of Superman’s No-Killing policy but me, on the other hand agree with the view that this movie showcased a beginner superman and that his entire philosophy of not taking a human life had to stem from somewhere. It was a gutsy movie a la Mandarin in Iron Man 3 but like Iron Man 3, I understand the reason behind it and I personally think it was a brilliant twist.

Faora:

is basically, one of zod’s minions but trust me when I say this- she is MORE badass than Zod! Her fight with Supes is perhaps the most entertaining of the lot and the way she fights using her super speed is indeed a sight to behold.

WHAT DIDN’T WORK :

The Script :

Okay, I’m going to put all my cards in the table and am simply going to call a horse, a horse. David S. Goyer’s script for Man of Steel is cheesy beyond belief. There are times that I unintentionally laughed at some of the lines when they were clearly meant to sound threatening and to incite danger. Especially, General Zods’ ( I will find him Lara, I will find him, I will find him Lara, I WILL FIND HIM….jeez…enough already Zod, you’re drunk…go home). Problem though, is the fact that this one problem with the film is basically the reason for all the other problems I have with the film.

Superman or Batman? :

Again, this is another problem that stems from a weak script. Supes in this film is more batman than superman. He broods and he broods a lot. In fact, I think that batman cracked more jokes in Batman Begins than superman does in this film. I mean, Superman is supposed to personify hope and positivity and it doesn’t help that THAT character goes and stays silent and broods every time. This is one of those instances where a little less of the Christopher Nolan influence would have helped the film.

Jonathan Kent’s death :

Ok, all the other problems I had with the film, I can atleast bear if not roll with but this problem I ( and presumably, many other hardcore superman fans) had is totally unforgivable and let me tell you why- it shows superman as a complete douchebag and if you’re thinking that I’m extrapolating a little, I will tell you what happens scene for scene. It starts with Jonathan, Martha and teen Clark on a joy ride with Clark having arguments with his father about not being able to utilize his full powers in front of other people before suddenly ( and conveniently, I might add) a CGI tornado appears out of nowhere. Jonathan, Martha and Clark make it out safely but then john goes back to the car to save the Goddamn dog ( I mean, did it not occur to them to just send their indestructible foster son?) the tornado grows close as john fumbles with the dog seatbelt and Clark is just standing there and when he actually makes a move to save his father, his father just tells him to stop with his hand and gets sucked into the tornado.

Apparently, the whole point of the scene was that Jonathan would give his life rather than expose clark’s identity and to that I say, BULLSHIT!…if that was my father and I had [frick]ing superspeed and shit, no matter what my dad tells me, I’d just go and save him. Jonathan kent’s death in the comics and other iterations is much more poignant and quite an eye-opener for clark ( he dies of an heart attack which shows clark that even with all his powers, he cannot prevent something that happens naturally) which further adds to the “man” part of superman, humbling him and showing him that deep inside, superman is in fact, human.

The tornado death on the other hand just flushes 75 years of mythos and superman ideology down the toilet and bringing supes’ down along with it. No matter what excuses anyone gives for this scene, it was one of the worst death for a beloved character since boba fett in star wars.



Destruction Porn:

Remember the negatives regarding the action sequences that I had not dwelt upon? Well, this was what I was talking about; the third act of this film is just what the title states- Destruction Porn. More buildings fall and more explosions happen than all of Michael bay’s 3 transformers movies combined. So much so that I began to wonder what the hell was superman fighting to protect? Metropolis by the end of the movie just turns into one gigantic nuclear wasteland. Also, in this film, superman fights against GIANT JAPANESE HENTAI TENTACLES. I am not kidding.

I understand that superman calls for super action but definitely not to this extent and it wasn’t even the entertaining type of action scenes like the ones in AVENGERS. Here, the action is too fast for the eye to register and the flying action sequences just look like a couple of flies playing tag.

It was entertaining , sure but it just grows too wearisome after a while….after all, there’s only so much building penetration one can take. Also, on a side note, if this was supposed to be a post 9/11 superman, the action in this film was like a huge finger to the victims of the tragic incident. Yes, it was that disrespectful.
EricBorder
EricBorder - 1/5/2016, 12:36 AM
@Shield23

Awesome article man! This was a good read

I can't wait for Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and Suicide Squad, it's been so cool to watch the DCEU come together. I can't wait to watch the story unfold on the big screen.


NitPicker
NitPicker - 1/5/2016, 3:01 AM
@Shield23

"In Superman comics, ESPECIALLY during alien invasions and super-powered battles that feature Superman, things are ALWAYS getting trashed and people are ALWAYS put in danger and killed whether you see it or not."

I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything, but was there that much destruction in the comics that introduced Superman? I don't really read DC comics, so I'm not too familiar with the characters. I think a lot of people don't get their point across effectively when they mention "Destruction Porn". I think what most people are trying to say is that DC/WB prioritized destruction over characterization. I don't think anybody would have a problem with that amount of destruction if Man of Steel was a sequel to a movie that had done a better job of giving us a character we could root for. It's just too much destruction for a movie that was supposed to introduce Superman.
NitPicker
NitPicker - 1/5/2016, 3:48 AM
CONFIRMED!!! Inanimate objects have more character than Superman.



NitPicker
NitPicker - 1/5/2016, 5:09 AM
@StarkSupreme

"Jonathan kent’s death in the comics and other iterations is much more poignant and quite an eye-opener for clark ( he dies of an heart attack which shows clark that even with all his powers, he cannot prevent something that happens naturally) which further adds to the “man” part of superman, humbling him and showing him that deep inside, superman is in fact, human.
"

This would have been a much better way to handle his death. They should have either done that or have him die from skin cancer. Because y'know, the sun causes skin cancer but it also gives Superman his powers. So the sun could have been like a gift and a curse. But they chose an incredibly stupid way to have him die. Over a dog... In a tornado... Stupid.
NitPicker
NitPicker - 1/5/2016, 6:27 AM
Why is Star Wars now part of the discussion? LOL!

If they didn't want to do a rehash, then why not keep Pa Kent's death out of the movie?
NitPicker
NitPicker - 1/5/2016, 7:22 AM
No. I didn't ask why Pa Kent was in the New Superman movie. I asked why they had him die in the movie. I can't help but notice that you didn't answer the question.

I can't help but notice that you didn't explain why Star Wars is part of the discussion either.

Also why did they put Zod in the movie? Why did they go through the stuff with Krypton? Why did they put Lois Lane in the movie? Could this be a lazy reboot of the first two Superman movies??? *gasp*

I guess you wouldn't have a problem with GOTG if Starlord stood there and watched a tornado kill his father... because of a dog. Starlord saved the galaxy with a dance. Superman has every super power in the world but stood there and watched his father die. Original super hero my ass.
NitPicker
NitPicker - 1/5/2016, 7:41 AM
Starlord's Mother's death scene >>>>>>>>>>>> Pa Kent's death scene.
Shield23
Shield23 - 1/5/2016, 1:34 PM
@StarkSupreme

Interesting post, but somewhat irrelevant to the points I was making with this article. Regardless, it seems your opinions on MOS are clearly based on some degree of nostalgia for the old films. MOS has done ZERO references to the older films. It completely ignores them to do its own thing. Still:


Henry Cavill- He's a great Superman all right. But keep in mind, this was just his introduction we saw in MOS. A focus on the man as opposed to the Superman. He was never intended to be the hope-inspiring hero he was often portrayed as just yet. We needed to see what he was like beforehand. The bar scene wasn't a reference to Superman II though. It was a reference to the first-ever Superman comic back in 1938.





Flying- Agreed.





Action- Agreed...for the most part.





Krypton- Avatar clone? Where does that even come from? Avatar was like a giant forest planet. Krypton had an earth-like terrain and didn't even show a forest (just a field of creatures). The animals they have are also right out of the Superman comics with some SLIGHT changes.





Soundtrack- This must be your nostalgia, so I'll just let you have that opinion. I much prefer Hans Zimmer's.





The Ending- Agreed.





Faora- Agreed.





The Script- Well, I don't know what you're definition of cheesy is, but I found Reeve's movies much more so and I in turn laughed at nearly everything about those films. The script was great to me. It features the danger and seriousness of someone like Superman being here and the dialogue actually feels like things people would actually say to some extent.





Superman or Batman- Like I said, MOS takes nothing from Reeve's movies and nearly everything from the comics. There are a handful of comics that feature Clark/Superman as often not too confident and sure of himself and broods every now and then; Like Superman Earth One. Again, you miss the point of his characterization MOS. Yes, Superman's focus is always his heroics and idealism. Yes, he is known for being an optimistic, hope-inspiring hero. But MOS' reintroduction of him focused more on the man in order show his relatability for the modern populace. Through this, focus was put on his heritage and isolation and he was portrayed as a conflicted, emotionally vulnerable do-gooder; such a thing resonates far more with the people of this day and age; as many feel closeted, rejected, alienated (ironic), devalued, ostracized, unsure of their identity, and impatient for a greater purpose in life; just like Superman in this film. We can't go back to the days of a mostly cheerful Superman. That's not gonna fly. Not anymore. And I wouldn't compare him to Batman. Batman is a dark, brooding loner. In MOS, Superman is a lost, confused outcast.




Jonathan Kent's death- Oy. I really hoped that you wouldn't bring this up. First of all, how do you know he had super-speed? It wasn't shown, stated, or implied. He clearly didn't have that yet. If so, he would have quickly saved the kids on the bus and got back on before they could even blink. If he had speed, he would have anonymously saved the guys on the oil rig rather than risk them seeing his face (and also wouldn't have to climb on the oil rig to reach them; he would have just ran up on it). His powers are differently portrayed in this film. He couldn't even fly until he was 33.





But anyway, what is up with people and this heart attack thing? The theme of this film isn't "Superman can't save everyone". It's "How would the world react to the presence of Superman"? Jonathan didn't want his son revealed to the world before he was ready, as he wouldn't be able to handle the pressure. He was 17 during that tornado incident; still way too young. Jonathan sees the bigger picture of things. He knew Clark would become a controversial figure in the future (based on BVS, that's RIGHT on the money) and knew he was going to have to make some tough choices in life. The point of the scene is that Clark is not only not ready to face the world, but that the world is not ready to face him. You make think people's defense of this scene is an "excuse", but it's really just you not opening your mind up a little bit more and making assumptions based on what you believe an ideal Superman tale should be.





Destruction Porn- Okay, you CLEARLY don't read Superman comics if this is a serious complaint. Every time there is an alien-invasion and a super-powered battle, in the comics, the damage is catastrophic to say the very least. And that tentacle comment of yours was uncalled for and gross, so I'm not even going to address that. And how could you compare MOS action to Avengers, which features SIX heroes? And do you have any idea how fast kryptonians, especially Superman, are while you are complaining about fast pace? MOS shows the true power of Superman, something the Reeve movies could NEVER accomplish. And seriously, 9/11 imagery? If anything is disrespectful here, it's this comment you made.





It seems your like and dislike for this film is based on some nostalgia you have for Donner Superman, which makes my 1st point in this article apply directly to you and why I can't really take you seriously. Donner's Superman may have been fine for the time, but MOS is the Superman from it's purest form: the comics.
Forthas
Forthas - 1/5/2016, 1:38 PM
@silverkid85

1) NO…You are wrong! So wrong I don’t even know where to begin.
It did not matter that WB may have had some vague long range plan for Batman versus Superman. The fact of the matter is that they were not thinking of a superhero team up until AFTER 2012 with the success of the Avengers. Then AFTER Man of Steel was already made, they released it and THEN decided to add superheroes to the film. Proof of the fact is that they were not thinking about a Batman and Superman film is that they shoehorned almost ALL of the Justice League in the supposed Batman v Superman film. Clearly they were making it up as they went along. Unless you are suggesting that they were always planning to have what is up to six now super heroes in the “Batman versus Superman” film. This is either reactionary to the success of the Avengers or one of the most striking coincidences I have ever heard of…I believe the former.

“How can you say it sucked?!? What the HELL are you talking about? The title piece in that portion of my response is a QUOTE from the article. Point to where I stated it sucked. I didn’t say that.

2) The problem with your statement about Chris terrio is that he is NOT adapting a true story into a cinematic account. Chris Terrio is not being given credit for adapting Goyer’s work he rewrote it. According to coming soon.net “Additionally, EW confirms that the script for the upcoming Justice League Part One has been completed by screenwriter Chris Terrio, who re-wrote David Goyer’s initial draft of “Dawn of Justice.” That is different from adapting source materials. Terrio did not “rewrite” Argo.

3) Each to his own…

4) …I should have known this was coming …the personal attacks (a must for hyper-sensitive DC Acolytes who cannot engage in constructive criticism and must result to insult and name calling). BUT ANYWAY…there is a great line in the Watchman in which Dr. Manhattan says to Ozymandias “I’ve walked across the sun. I’ve seen events so tiny and so fast they hardly can be said to have occurred at all, but you… you are a man. And this world’s smartest man means no more to me than does its smartest termite.” This is something Superman could just as easily say to Batman and I will just leave it at that.

5)…oh what do you know…more personal attacks and inconsistent logic. SO ANYWAY…
There is a difference between a television show and a movie. Television shows are not supposed to be self-contained stories in each episode so it is appropriate that the consequences in one is central to future shows. That is not the same case for movies which in my opinion work better as self-contained stories that might be connected to but not dependent on a previous movie to be relevant. As far as the Dark Knight Trilogy…even though the events of Batman Begins are alluded to, they are not central to what happened in Dark Knight Rises. The League of Shadows is not trying to bomb Gotham BECAUSE of what happened in the first movie – it is another attempt. For example it is NOT another gas attack, the main villain is not Ras Al Ghul and the motivation for the attacks are different and the people from the first film have evolved from one film to the other.

“So, the next time you want to write stupid comments (that no cinematic studios will certainly take care of!) driven only by your useless hate towards a movie and characters that you may not like, please, think twice and find a more profitable way to waste your time. XD”

Thanks for that comment! Every time I get insulted or told my comments are “stupid” it reinforces the fact that what I wrote is the truth and obviously deep down inside you know it.
Forthas
Forthas - 1/5/2016, 1:40 PM
@Shield23


1) Batman V Superman was not part of a plan prior to Man of Steel. It was first reported that Snyder would helm a sequel to Man of Steel. Then we were told that it was not a sequel. That’s strange for a movie that was already planned….

FACT…

“This isn’t exactly a surprise given the hot anticipation and theatrical buzz awaiting Man Of Steel‘s limited opening Thursday and wide release Friday in 4,200+ theaters. But I’ve learned it’s official: Warner Bros Pictures is fast-tracking the Superman reboot sequel with its successful twosome already in place: Zack Snyder reprising as director and David S. Goyer repeating as screenwriter. Goyer’s deal is part of a huge 3-picture deal he signed at Warner Bros for Man of Steel, the sequel, and Justice League with Superman.”

(SOURCE: ‘Man Of Steel’ Sequel Underway With Zack Snyder and David S. Goyer” Deadline, by Nikki Finke June 10, 2013 5:40pm)

THEN

“Henry Cavill has finally confirmed that Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice is not a sequel to Man of Steel, something we have been saying for quite some time now. Many fans were adamant that this movie is a Superman sequel despite the fact that the title starts with "Batman." We can only hope that Cavill's wise words will put an end to the debate once and for all.”

(SOURCE “Henry Cavill Says 'Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice' Is Not 'Man of Steel' Sequel” By Vamien McKalin, Tech Times - April 25, 7:26 AM

BONUS INFO - Here is industry insider, Walking Dead creator Robert Kirkman, on if he feels the Batman v Superman movie is special…

“I think [DC] announcing you’re going to do a Justice League movie after a Superman movie, that was neat and had some awesome things in it, but it wasn’t like amazing or groundbreaking – I shouldn’t have said that,” Kirkman said. “It was an awesome movie, I like it. [The plan] just seems derivative, so it puts them in a backseat position to Marvel.”

2) Why else do you have a story rewritten?

3) No problem

4) Philosophical difference??? REALLY!!! Batman is going after him – at least according to the trailers because he thinks he is a threat. Where do you see that is a philosophical difference? He is doing it out of fear plain and simple. You are trying to read into it something that is not there. In my opinion it makes batman look bad. All those people who were critical of the Nolan version of batman not being a good detective…yet this batman is going after a perceived threat based on flimsy evidence. There is no logical conclusion. Is he going to kill superman if he could? If he doesn’t , is he just trying to scare him. That really worked wonders on other criminals like the joker, and everyone in suicide squad. What is worse is that the audience knows that he is wrong …so that makes his detecting abilities look vain and petty thereby diminishing him.

5) You wrote that “MOS is a comics accurate film on so many levels” and you have the nerve to say that I don’t read Superman comic. REALLY!!!! So which one of these is comic accurate – Is it his outfit; the Genesis device; maybe it’s how Pa Kent dies; or maybe you mean that fact that Lois knows Superman’s identity from the start; No! Maybe you mean that Superman in the comic has a nonchalant attitude about people dying around him; OR maybe it’s the fact that he kills Zod by snapping his neck…tell me which of those are comic accurate. You tell me what is comic accurate about Superman, besides he can fly, shoot lasers from his eyes and has x-ray vision. Could you at least do what I did and provide evidence to back you up?
Shield23
Shield23 - 1/5/2016, 1:53 PM
@Nitpicker

Not really ALL Superman origin tales have an alien invasion theme, but MOS took from more than just origin comics, such as the Death of Superman. The damage there was MASSIVE as a result of Superman's fight with Doomsday. In Earth One (an origin story), from which MOS takes the most inspiration and which introduces an alien invasion theme, the damage is catastrophic and not even limited to just Metropolis, but the entire world.

And it did a great job of introducing us to Superman. We see how hard it was for him growing up on Earth as someone so different and can only feel at home with his adoptive parents. We see that he has several personal interests throughout his life and amassed knowledge in others. Most importantly, we see that he has a penchant for saving others. By the time the action started, the stakes have been set. Superman knew who he was. The world became aware of aliens. Zod's plot was revealed. Everything was set. And how can you not root for an imperfect protagonist who despite having some personal issues and being frequently bullied wants nothing more than to help people regardless? Seriously, how can you not care for someone who saved his bully and rescued the military men and women who handed him over and shot at him? How can you not admire his decision to choose protecting us over siding with his own people despite all of the mistreatment we've handed him throughout his life?
Futers11
Futers11 - 1/5/2016, 4:29 PM
BvS doesn't look very good but I can't believe a studio would make all these decisions on a very small percentage of fan reaction
Shield23
Shield23 - 1/5/2016, 4:42 PM
@Frothas

1. I knew (and said) BVS wasn't always the plan. I said Batman would make an appearance in the film. He probably had a smaller role until they decided to shift the focus on the sequel being a backdoor to Justice League. Again, based on the references in MOS, I ask, "why focus on one hero when you can explore an entire universe of them?"

2. To have it rewritten means they needed it polished up. Nolan wrote MOS, but Goyer polished it up. Just like Goyer wrote BVS, but Terrio polished it up.

3. Thumbs up!

4. Don't make assumptions based ENTIRELY on trailers. That's how they get you. All we've seen is the conflict between Batman and Superman and from articles we know that it seems a bit personal for Batman, but after a while, it grows to be more likely due to what he knows about Superman and what he can do since the MOS incident. The philosophical battle is their views on being heroes. They are both good guys, but they do things completely differently. In the third trailer, we get a hint of this at the beginning. Clark talks about how Batman goes too far with his crusade and thinks he above the law. Bruce talks about how Superman is so well-accepted desite what he could do and what people thinks he did; also mocking the fact that he "saves cats from trees".

5. He wasn't nonchalant. He had to stay focused on Zod. While he is busy saving one person or five people, Zod could be killing dozens. I said it was comic book accurate on "so many levels", not "every level". While liberties were taken with Zod killing Jor-El, Lois finding out about Clark, Jonathan Kent's death, Kryptonians wearing suits to defend against the atmosphere, and even Superman not wearing red briefs (even though he doesn't wear them anymore since the New 52 comics), it's for the sake of making sense to the movie-goers who aren't fans. As for the many things it stuck with, well... let's start in order.
















The service drones "Kelex and Kelor" are right out of John Byrne's 1980s comic, "Superman: The Man of Steel".





As is the fact that Kryptonians are genetically bred as opposed to naturally born. Although, in the comic, they are called gestation chambers as opposed to genesis chambers.





Clark learning he is an alien from his father and receiving a pivotal remnant from his ship in addition to being comforted by his father is right out of "Superman Earth One" and "Superman Secret Origin" respectively.






Clark getting bullied by a rude patron despite his initial attempts at making peace when the man picked on a woman and his subsequent revenge is RIGHT out of the first ever Superman comic back in 1938.

Shield23
Shield23 - 1/5/2016, 4:51 PM
@Frothas








Clark's first flight in MOS is right out of his epic flight in "Superman Birthright" and the villain Tyrell's actions and motivations in "Earth One" are a direct reflection of Zod's in MOS; Zod himself being in "Earth One", but with a different appearance and plot.
Shield23
Shield23 - 1/5/2016, 4:58 PM
@Frothas









Clark getting bullied and being tempted to hit his bully, but shows restraint is right out of Earth One. Clark seeks council on how to move forward at the church of Father Leone is in a comic I can't quite remember, but the circumstance was the same.
Shield23
Shield23 - 1/5/2016, 5:07 PM
@Frothas





Superman stands up after getting pinned down by a machine that destroys his surroundings and weakens him.



https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqveBRw7iY-em97UG2sN6rzywxbxW2vJ6Iwk4gfUiSqS51xAmv

Superman fights Zod in populated areas; evidenced in the background.
Shield23
Shield23 - 1/5/2016, 5:22 PM


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YJ5s9Fn_DSs/maxresdefault.jpg

True. Superman didn't kill Zod by snapping his neck. But he still killed him out of desperation to stop him. This was in "The Man of Steel" by Byrne.


I could go on. Mention things like Superman's interest in football, beer, and science, how he ended up working at the daily planet after an invasion, show how the military is skeptical of his presence and wish to follow him in some way (like the surveillance drone), and even provide countless pics of destruction as a result of his fights and alien invasions. But I think by now you got the point.
SteveBosell
SteveBosell - 1/5/2016, 6:54 PM
Great article Shield! Ignore the haters. They're just trying to get a rise out of DC fans.
SpideySupes94
SpideySupes94 - 1/5/2016, 9:17 PM
VISIONaryNPa We really aren't man. What I posted is a review that I'd written when it first came out. I believe my spelling has drastically improved since then.

Also, *shit.
SpideySupes94
SpideySupes94 - 1/5/2016, 9:39 PM
@Shield23 I like how you agreed with most of the things I liked about MoS while simultaneously giving excuses for everything I didn't like about it and no, while I have a considerable amount of nostalgia for the donner superman films, I never did let that hinder my viewing experience.

The animals in krypton had a lot of design similarities with creatures in avatar, it's quite evident really.

The script definitely was cheesy. I mean, you had dialogues like "I get writer's block when I don't wear a flak jacket", "You know what they say, it's all downhill after the first kiss" (While kissing with the ruins of metropolis in the background, no less), "I just think he's kind of hot", "You're a monster Zod, and I'm going to stop you" and many more. I honestly blame David S Goyer as he's a hack.

My biggest problem with Pa Kent's death scene was how tremendously stupid it was in terms of Superman as a character. If you actually thought that scene was a good idea, then clearly you haven't read and loved the superman that I have. There is a similar situation that Supes faces in the first issue of John Byrne's run on the character (and my personal favourite), where he's on the ground as clark while he watches a planes crashing down (This plane has lois in it as well). There are a ton of bystanders and he remembers what pa kent tells hime, which is to protect his identity. He considers this for a while, but immediately decides that no human life is worth his secret identity and without a further moment of hesitation, he saves the plane. "NO HUMAN LIFE IS WORTH HIS SECRET IDENTITY" - THIS is superman and this was exactly what was wrong with that scene. He basically lets his father die because his father wants him to protect his identity. That's not sacrifice, that's selfishness. I hate to sound like one of those people, but superman would NEVER do that. So much so, that even Mark Waid has put across how out of character Supes was in the film. This is Mark Waid's (who, if you're a superman fan, you would accept is a great authority on the character) exact quote, Says Mark Waid:

"Particularly in this last sequence, his utter disregard for the collateral damage was just jaw-dropping as they just kept crashing through buildings full of survivors. I’m not suggesting he stop in the middle of a super-powered brawl to save a kitten from a tree, but even Brandon Routh thought to use his heat vision on the fly to disintegrate deadly falling debris after a sonic boom. From everything shown to us from the moment he put on the suit, Superman rarely if ever bothered to give the safety and welfare of the people around him one bit of thought."

You either didn't read my post fully or misunderstood me. I never had a problem with the destruction in the film, I just had a problem with the horrible pacing and just the amount of clutter onscreen. The action was just too CGI-enhanced fast to even care about and scenes of destruction after destruction after destruction without any breathers in between just started to bore me after a while. I mean, that's exactly the problem that most people have with the Transformers films as well, so I find it hypocritical that this film should get a pass regarding the same.

The reason I brought up the 9/11 imagery was because Zack Snyder himself called his supes a "post - 9/11 Superman", so I think I was validated in how disrespectful it was of that tragic day.

Now, if you persist in your love for the film, then obviously all the problems that I have with MoS are inevidently falling on deaf ears and I can totally understand that. To me, however, Man of Steel, while not without it's merits, was sul-crushingly disappointing.
SpideySupes94
SpideySupes94 - 1/5/2016, 9:43 PM
@Shield23 Forgive the amount of typos in my previous comment, I was typing really fast and didn't bother to do a spell-check.
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