Fixing The DCEU - My Version Of How The DCEU Should Have Gone (Part 2)

Fixing The DCEU - My Version Of How The DCEU Should Have Gone (Part 2)

Warner Bros. and DC Comics were far too concerned in catching up to the Marvel Cinematic Universe and as such their movies suffered!

Editorial Opinion
By aliharris - Sep 11, 2018 06:09 AM EST
Filed Under: DC Studios

My biggest problem with the introduction of Batman into the DCEU was that he was far too violent and brutal for reasons that weren't exactly explored in 'Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice'. Comic-book readers understood that Snyder took inspiration out of 'The Dark Knight Returns' and even 'Batman: A Death in the Family' when giving us this Batman. Unfortunately, non-comic book readers weren't familiar with these stories and as it so happens, most of the audience that go to watch these movies aren't necessarily huge followers of the comics. 

 

For us to care that Batman had recently suffered the loss of a Robin the audience has to at least be somewhat properly attached to their relationship to care. So what do you do in this case? Simple, make a Batman and Robin movie in which we see Jason Todd taking the mantle of Robin and this would be after the events of Dick Grayson leaving Bruce and going to work on his own in Blüdhaven. This way we can have subtle hints at the existence of Dick Grayson and that we know the Bat-family is growing in the DCEU. More so, it leaves room for development for all these characters rather than simply saying that one is either dead or the other is God knows where. 

 

The villain of the movie should be someone who can challenge both Jason Todd and Bruce's relationship and so of course the villain we think of when thinking about Jason Todd and Batman is Joker. Yes, you can have Joker in this movie or you can leave that for the sequel to the Batman movie instead of killing Jason Todd in this movie. Develop the character properly and take time so that the audience feel the relationship between Jason and Bruce is genuine. So who would the villain be? Hush.

 

In the comics, Hush is the childhood best-friend of Bruce Wayne, they grew up together and the two had trusted each other immensely. Immediately this allows for the villain and hero to have a personal attachment and would make for a more compelling story than having some other villain that doesn't really provide that attachment. This way we can also have flashbacks exploring Bruce's childhood with Elliot. Thomas Elliot (Hush) in the comics blames Thomas Wayne for ruining his life by saving the life of his mother as he previously attempted to murder his parents. As such, he seeks to take revenge by ruining Bruce's life and eventually killing him. 

 

So how would Hush make a compelling villain for a Batman/Robin story... well, in this movie Jason is still a kid, maybe about 13-16 and as such, he is easily influenced or at least he is more naive than he would be if he was a bit older. This means that Jason is more suscepitible to listening or even believing any lies that Elliot may feed him about Bruce as he would attempt to take away everything from Bruce, starting with Jason. 

 

We get a conflicting story between these three characters and it all falls onto who Jason trusts more, Bruce - the guy that is training him, looking after him and caring for him or Elliot - who knew Bruce since they were kids and knows the type of man Bruce could be (obsessive, dangerous and scary). Ultimately this movie would test everything we've seen between Bruce and Jason until a decision is made that Jason would stick with Bruce. 

 

The movie would also give Batman a chance to show a different side to him and it's that he is worried for Jason because he cares. Of course we've seen that in comics and the animated shows/movies but we haven't seen it done on the big screen. This would even be a good way to set up the entirety of 'Batman: Hush' storyline through the sequel or a complete trilogy if they wanted, meaning we get to see different Batman villains appear. If they don't want it to be a complete trilogy but have a 'Batman: Hush' storyline in the sequel, that's fine too. The trilogy could end with the death of Jason Todd in which we would then have Joker as the main villain. This way the relationship between Jason and Bruce is heavily developed by the third movie, we also see that Bruce is affected by having to fight his only childhood friend and then eventually it would all lead to Jason dying.

That's when we would have a Batman that feels helpless but angry at the world, he feels the world has taken everything from him as Dick has left him, had to fight the only friend he ever had and loses Jason Todd. He would feel guilty for even allowing a child into the battlefield and now it would make sense as to why this Batman is so angry and vengeful towards the world. Now, I know that this would take away from how 'Batman: Hush' occurs in the comics but so what? Movies and comics don't need to be the exact same and if the story-telling is well done, that's what matters. I know that by making this type of story arc for Batman, it would then tarnish any possibility of having 'Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice' take place and honestly that's okay. We can always have a Batman vs Superman story arc in another way and that's what my next article will focus on. My third part of this article will be my final and will focus mainly on how a team up movie can lead to a Batman vs Superman movie. 

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patmanqc
patmanqc - 9/11/2018, 6:48 AM
Does anybody care?
CaptainElrond
CaptainElrond - 9/11/2018, 6:52 AM
@patmanqc - I Semi Care. I find it...interesting and amusing.
Forthas
Forthas - 9/11/2018, 6:56 AM
We had a perfectly good Batman in Christian Bale with an established story arc...numerous Batman villians introduced and a reimagined Robin. Warner Brothers screwed themselves royally by not continuing with that Batman and using Man of Steel as the bridge to a larger universe. Both those films had a similar tone, story telling style and would have fit perfectly together. That should be the foundation fo films going forward and the DCEU should pretend that every thing after Man of Steel never happened.




CaptainElrond
CaptainElrond - 9/11/2018, 7:17 AM
Here we go again.
JDL
JDL - 9/11/2018, 1:36 PM
@Forthas - IIRC Nolan said his work was not to be used as a part of the DC universe and for some damn reason WB went along with him.
Forthas
Forthas - 9/11/2018, 3:59 PM
@JDL -



Nolan NEVER said that. In fact Nolan advocated for a spinoff of the Catwoman character created in HIS universe.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2012/jul/12/anne-hathaway-dark-knight-rises

So Warner Brothers DID NOT go along with him...and it has been a disaster ever since.
JDL
JDL - 9/11/2018, 9:45 PM
@Forthas - What I read was that Nolan did not want his movies associated with these later films. As for the article you posted WTF does that have to do MoS, BvS, JL, et al ? The answer is nothing. And just in case it isn't clear the start of the DC "universe" is MoS. Didn't have to be. Could have been Batman Begins. But Nolan said No. EOS.

So its you that are full of it. Just be quiet and go away.
Forthas
Forthas - 9/12/2018, 12:46 PM
@JDL - Man of Steel was created to be a "Dark Knight" like telling of Superman. The idea for a shared universe occured after Man of Steel was released.

Nolan never said no to expanding the Dark Knight films to become what we know as the DCEU. Please cite a source or quote where Nolan said this.
JDL
JDL - 9/12/2018, 2:06 PM
@Forthas - " Man of Steel was created to be a "Dark Knight" like telling of Superman. The idea for a shared universe occurred after Man of Steel was released."

True afaik for the current version of the DCEU but as you brought up Nolan had ideas for his own version.

"Nolan never said no to expanding the Dark Knight films to become what we know as the DCEU. Please cite a source or quote where Nolan said this."

I've found several references where people said Nolan had said he did not want a world with powered heroes (as opposed those with wonderful toys and great combat skills). If I understand things correctly that un-powered vision of humanity is what his shared universe would have looked like. In any case there is no sign that he has changed his mind about powers in his world which pretty much negates the current DCEU.

That said I haven't found his actual quote yet so I'll keep looking.



Forthas
Forthas - 9/12/2018, 3:09 PM
@JDL - I know the reference about the superpowers that you are referring to. Here is the thing. Nolan did not want to include heroes with superpowers in the films he made. Since he is no longer part of the the franchise the point is moot. Nothing in the Dark Knight films suggested that people could not have super powers...in fact it was alluded to that Bane did have superhuman strength...


JDL
JDL - 9/12/2018, 4:26 PM
@Forthas - Yeah it's the superpowers and cgi. (link below) What I find odd is that WB allowed it. Further I find it hard to impossible to believe that they would have given him that right contractually. So yes Nolan did quash his trilogy being in the DCEU.

https://indianexpress.com/article/entertainment/hollywood/has-dc-film-universe-aquaman-shazam-new-gods-5102031/
Forthas
Forthas - 9/13/2018, 6:39 PM
@JDL - You did not seem to get my point. How can Nolan "quash" his trilogy in the DCEU if he no longer involved? He gave them MORE than his blessing to do a Catwoman spinoff. Why then would he suddenly be against other characters? The entire point is that Warner Brothers could have continued with the Nolan-inspired Universe... Nolan created - without Nolan! The same way the Avengers continues without Joss Whedon...the same way that Star Wars continues without George Lucas.
JDL
JDL - 9/13/2018, 6:49 PM
@Forthas - You missed MY point. He SHOULDN"T be able to squash his trilogy being used as part of the DCEU. (we agree on that) He has no right to do that that I can see but WB is letting him do it anyway.
Forthas
Forthas - 9/14/2018, 11:51 AM
@JDL - That is not true...WB executives wanted to use the Nolan trilogy actors but Zack Snyder scrapped the idea. According to an article by the Guardian.

“Snyder revealed he was initially encouraged by studio executives to recruit cast members from Nolan’s Batman trilogy but ultimately resisted the temptation.

“I was like, ‘Hey, come on guys, let’s all understand, it’s a different world.’ In the Batman universe that Chris Nolan created, Superman would have a hard time existing,” said the Watchmen director. “That’s why we did a reboot on the universe, so we could allow these characters to exist together. We needed to do that to have Batman exist in this world.”

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/mar/10/zack-snyder-envisaged-christian-bale-in-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice

So where Warner Brothers f#cked up was listening to Zack Snyder who correctly made a film (Man of Steel) that fits perfectly with the Nolan films, but then made the utterly stupid idotic mistake of not building on it. You keep trying to blame Nolan for not contiuing with the universe he set up when there is no proof whatsoever that he had those inclinations. The actual prooof points to the fact it was the studio (and ONLY the studio that made that decsion). They...

1) Never appraoched Christian Bale about returning to the role
2) Allowed Zack Snyder to reboot the Batman element of the universe
3) Did not take Nolan's advice to do a spinoff film featuring Catwoman.

If they listened to Nolan as you seem to claim they were supposedly doing...we would have had a Catwoman spinoff.

JDL
JDL - 9/17/2018, 1:15 PM
@Forthas - I replied to this before but something happened to that post. Oh well.

Yes, seemingly they listened to Nolan on not including the trilogy but didn't on Catwoman et al. The studio did what it perceived to be in its best interests in both cases. Yes they were inconsistent in kow-towing to Nolan's wishes. So what ? Nolan's wants were fine if it meshed with the Studio's needs and when not they got shit-canned. That was the over-riding factor and nothing else. If you don't understand that I can't help you.

As I said they never should have asked. Also more movies on the level of Nolan's trilogy or even a little less called for outlays of hundred's of millions of dollars. Not including the trilogy in the DCEU was just an opportunity cost. Not all the comparable. As always YMMV.
originalheretic
originalheretic - 9/11/2018, 7:11 AM
Is there any point to these articles? They're basically a form of fan fiction. "If *I* had made the movies, I would have done THIS."
Um, too late. They're already done.
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