Has Iron Man lost its edge?

Has Iron Man lost its edge?

Has the Iron Man movie series dropped too much of its more edgy aspects in this new installment?

Editorial Opinion
By Paulley - Apr 25, 2010 11:04 AM EST
Filed Under: Iron Man 2

We all know CBM's have to be made viewable to all age groups to maximize profits; this can lead to many older viewers becoming dismayed by how kid friendly movies/characters have to become.

Sometimes in an effort to do this characters can feel like they have become a diluted representation of what we would want to see on the big screen. Case in point would be Wolverine in the Fox movies, Hugh Jackman's character doesn't seem at home in this environment. What we wanted to see was bloody body ripping claw action but obviously they couldn't do it. With a better story (eg X2) you can forgive the fact they had to do that; but lets face it, the character was better portrayed in the video game "X-Men Origins: Wolverine" than it ever was in any of the movies.

Tell me you wouldn't go to the cinema to see this


Other films have gone the route to push the PG-13 rating as far as possible while still keeping it open for the younger audiences. The Dark Knight and Iron Man are both good examples of this; with there themes and violence steering very close to the edge.

One thing that i personally always preferred Marvel over DC for was the fact that Marvel's heroes, if necessary, were always willing to kill for the greater good. In Iron Man, Tony Stark killed numerous people with guns, explosives and even flamethrowers. However, so far the only things Stark and Rhodey seem willing to shoot at are robot drones. Did Marvel get more heat over the actions of Stark in the first film than they let on? or are they worried that the MPAA are tightening the regulatory system and they might lose there rating?

I truly don't like the drones in Iron Man 2, i wouldn't mind so much if they are piloted (like War Machine) or remote piloted by personnel somewhere but in no way would the Armed Forces allow any computer controlled drone to issue its own kill order. Not now, nor anytime in the near-future. All drones with weapons can only work autonomously up until a point; but when it comes to the command to fire, a human pilot has to give it.

You may ask "maybe they are piloted, we havent seen the movie" but as we have seen the TV promo where one targets, and prepares to fire, on a child dressed in a Iron Man toy helmet. So that seems unlikely. I believe there was also something said about the drones attacking Iron Man was some secret program put in by Whiplash but we will have to wait and see.

It makes me feel the only reason why they used robots was simply so they could get the suits to fire off more rounds and rip 'em apart with violent intent but still leaving them able to turn round and say "dont worry Mums and Dads their only robots." What is this a Saturday morning cartoon!

Its not the end of the world be any means, but i does worry me that they will go too far when it comes to the other movies. If Captain America manages to get through WW2 without shooting a Nazi then there is something very wrong.

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StuckInPanels
StuckInPanels - 4/25/2010, 1:01 PM
What are you talking about? Your saying Iron man should be more violent?...He's not supposed to be he's a man in a suit of technologically advance weaponry fighting villains in different suits of armor also. He's not like Wolverine whose main gimmick is that he kills people. The fact that your comparing these 2 characters in such manner is laughable. I can understand where they are using robots to do their dirty work because they have the resources and knowledge of not hiring a soldiers to wear them because one could in theory go rouge and sell the armor to enemy powers. Whiplash is obviously gonna be loyal to Hammer because they have they same motive.

As for Tony killing people in the first one. During his walk out through the cave he was basically bouncing bullets and punching dudes. One guy is shown dying by his own bullet bouncing off the armor. Also he was burning all the munitions and weapon stock piles. The only people he really killed was during the March 3 trials and that was only because they held hostages, he wasn't doing it for fun.

Also for the drones, dude your thinking way to realistically. This is a MOVIE not the real world. Its believable that these machines and armor can be done IN FILM but in the real world, we're nowhere near this kind of tech. Just like in WANTED bullets can't curve in the real world but in the movie world they can. You need to disconnect the logic part of the brain when watching a comic book movie.

Also for the Wolverine game, it was taking so many liberties than the movie. They were allowed to go crazy and have fun when developing the game. They followed some of the beats from the movie but stuff in the game couldn't have been done in the game due to budgetary reasons, script, or believability.

Comparing Marvel to DC is also another harder thing. Marvel heroes are people who became heroes because they were outcasts already and chose to do good rather than evil. DC heroes are about stopping crime and villainy with the least amount of casualties. These world and characters are vastly different in certain areas in terms of Heroics. Whenever a Marvel character does something they tend to look for a vice to clear their mind of the stress and weariness of being a hero(Stark's vice is alcohol)

I'm not too worried about what's planned for Captain America, we know from the script and hints of the film that he won't be a fighter at first. I'm sure he's gonna rely more on his Shield, rather than firearms. You gotta realize that somethings are gonna be altered to fit the Mainstream audience. Studios know its hard to please not only fanboys but mainstream. The appeal towards one greatly affects the other. The whole point of these films is to find the perfect balance. Surprising you didn't mention Thor when his background involves War on a daily basis, I'm sure they are gonna focus more on the fantasy rather than the violent nature.

KeithM
KeithM - 4/25/2010, 1:08 PM
Until I've seen the movie, it's difficult to say whether you have a point. So far, in IM & TIH, they don't seem to be shy about showing death and destruction.

However, the true test is as you say in your final point:

"If Captain America manages to get through WW2 without shooting a Nazi then there is something very wrong."


I don't have a problem with them toning it down for specifically kiddy fare like Power Pack for example, but with the "grown-ups" of the MU, they need to act like it.

Is it really that bad in the US at the moment then?

Nobody really batted an eyelid at the 15 rating for Kick-Ass over here in the UK for example. It's a comic book movie - fantasy - it's not real - who cares? :)

Bond has been mowing down bad guys for years - in often inventive and nasty ways - on a PG rating and no-one seems bothered by that.

How many deaths are there in the Star Wars movies - caused by the heroes directly? How many people has Indy killed?

Nah, surely they wouldn't pussy out that much.

Oh, and: "Tell me you wouldn't go to the cinema to see this"

Definitely. Why didn't they make THAT movie? Idiots.
canadianturd
canadianturd - 4/25/2010, 1:12 PM
Basically, your complaint is that you want to see more people killed. There was tons of killing in the first Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk, I don't know what you're talking about.

The drones exist in the comics. Hammer even says in the trailer that he wants to make Iron Man look like an antique. Exactly how could you improve the Iron Man suit? Limiting casualities by not having human pilots. It has nothing to do with cowtowing to the MPAA or making it look like a Saturday morning cartoon. In fact, we could only hope that this is as entertaining as a Saturday morning cartoon because that's exactly how we watched this shit as kids.

I agree with the Wolverine statement, but this bullshit about Iron Man is unfounded. Some characters should not be watered down, but Iron Man and the Avengers are not in that category. Although they have SOME adult themes, they're not always in your face like the Punisher or Wolverine. For the most part, these movies should stay PG.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 4/25/2010, 1:37 PM
if this were some other movie, than i MAYBE could agree with you. but this is Iron Man. a series about advanced technology. The military already have robotic drones that they use, so this isn't far fetched at all. the drones fit perfectly into the Iron Man world.

also, its PG-13. no one is EVER going to see the kind of violence SOME of these characters (wolverine) should be exhibiting. you mentioned TDK, but think back to that. yeah, people got shot. but thats it. The Joker cut that one guy's mouth...but they didn't show it.

also, Iron Man isn't a murderer. has he killed people? yes. but he's not an anit-hero who kills anyone that stands against him. also, if these were military drones that were PILOTED by military operatives, then Tony wouldn't kill them. no chance in hell. he wouldn't even want to risk hurting them. then the action would be very different, and like you're whole argument says, less violent...

so i say, be happy they're drones, and not being piloted by military guys. at least this way we get to see Iron Man and War Machine let loose.
StuckInPanels
StuckInPanels - 4/25/2010, 1:46 PM
@keithM..exactly, comic book movies are fantasy flicks, not to be taking serious and fun to enjoy.

@canadianturd, Movies should be entertaining by the story, not the amount of violence in it. We saw that happen to Punisher war zone and that filmed tanked, I enjoyed it, but again its about the balance between mainstream and fanboys, you can't please one or the other without hurting the other. I don't want to see Iron man kill people indiscriminately, killing someone should only be the last resort, if the person your fighting is too dangerous to be left alive and in the authorities hands, then killing can be justified. The Hulk has no rhyme or reason, he attacks anyone and anything that looks at him funny. When he kills he kills without cause. Heroes with logic and sense tend to choose the no killing route, most of the time. I'm looking forward to seeing the film and enjoy it to the fullest, killings or no killings of people
StuckInPanels
StuckInPanels - 4/25/2010, 1:48 PM
@corndog, your words are like gold. Those are all good points to make. Not all heroes are killers.
Paulley
Paulley - 4/25/2010, 3:25 PM
Lol i like to start debate.. but i think a few people misread my comments.

I did not in anyway say that Iron Man should be blowing holes in lots of people or anything of the sort. In fact i said "if necessary, were always willing to kill for the greater good".

The comparison i always liked for Marvel/DC was brought up in the crossover comic where they say DC's Earth is going the right direction and the heroes are there to stop anybody taking off that path.. while Marvel's Earth is going to pot and the heroes there fight everyday to get it back on track.

I agree they are using drones specifically so they can let loose have Iron Man War Machine blow holes in everything and make lots of stuff explode without violence against living people. My comparison to cartoon is valid because that is a technique they use to allow violence and entertain children without upsetting parents.

TDK as i mentioned has alot of "suggested violence" which is again acceptable because it is never seen in the film, the camera cuts away.

Maybe i am thinking to realistically, but i just dont see any army interested fully autonomous drones that kill without being told too or being controlled in some way. Like i did say the best way to portray these drones were if they were remote controlled to some extent from a remote location. Im hoping that in the movie they are intended to be controlled but Whiplash's program takes control of them and turns them full automated.
Paulley
Paulley - 4/25/2010, 3:30 PM
Also in regards to Iron Man's body count

-2 insurgents blown up by bomb placed by Iron Man
-9 soldiers crushed by Iron Man
-Iron Man crushes 1 insurgent with a door
-1 insurgent unintentionally kills himself by bullet ricochet
-6 soldiers killed by Iron Man’s flamethrower
-1 guy engulfed by flames when Iron Man takes off

Potentially about 10 more guys engulfed in flames when Iron Man takes off in the escape scene, but the deaths are never shown, so it’s unclear if they died or not.

-Iron Man crushes 1 insurgent
-Iron Man shoots 8 insurgents
-Iron Man blows up a tank, killing the gunman
-6 more insurgents blown up by Iron Man

for full body count see
http://www.allouttabubblegum.com/main/?p=4126
contrast
contrast - 4/25/2010, 3:46 PM
My main problem with your argument in the article (though it is well-written) is that you equate the "edge" of Iron Man with violence, though as the history of the character shows, his real "edge" is his alcoholism, which it seems they'll be dealing with head-on in this film.
Paulley
Paulley - 4/25/2010, 4:13 PM
Agreed i only mention the violence edge to the Iron Man story..

But in regards to that edge of Tony Stark, Justin Theroux said there pretty much avoiding the alcoholism.

the Demon in the Bottle story, nobody wants to see Tony like that...We realized that in a comic book you can have one key-frame where it's a guy, drunk, but in a movie, that's gotta be a big scene and it's gotta be addressed. A thirteen year old kid does not want to see drunken Tony.

Thats why they used the illness instead.

--

Iron Man isnt a street level hero he isnt gonna be stopping muggers they have to have threats he can blow up or they can treat him how they did with Pepper Pott's armored superhero "Rescue" i thought that was neat how the armor was used to help rescue and recovery.

In that respect War Machine is useless as a hero (well other than a war one).. you can save everybody with bullets.

Does make me think they are going to have to come up with some variety in armies of bad guys which are shoot-able but not human for the future films.


I think im just developing a dislike AI soldier robots.. must be something to do with being brought up on Terminator lol
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 4/25/2010, 8:43 PM
I agree about Wolverine. That game footage looked amazing! But I don't think they really need to make a point out of having Iron Man kill people just for the sake of killing people. Marvel has its characters who are ok with killing and its characters who aren't. With Iron Man, it's not like he doesn't try to do his thing without killing. To me it seems like a last resort. Anyway, the drones make sense. With people, they'd have to train them and worry about human error. With the drones, the person who sends them has all the control.
Scarface
Scarface - 4/26/2010, 4:41 AM
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Paulley
Paulley - 4/26/2010, 6:43 AM
@MikeSanderson09 I dont think i wrote anything that was specifically wrong.

Esspecially noting my entire article was based on a question to its readers.. note the use of "?"'s lol

Thhough there is one could point where i think much of the edge of the film will lie and thats on (like it should) its villain Whiplash.

I dont quite see how they are gonna let Whiplash use his whips on people quick camera cut i guess and ambigous explosions. Though we do know he hangs two of his Hammer Industries gueards.

--

I might have to write another article so i can continue to stir more people up with things they dont want to hear lol
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 4/26/2010, 7:44 AM
@ paulley

so what if they WERE being remote controlled though?? that wouldn't give back "the edge" you're talking about. it wouldn't make it any more or less violent. they would still be shredding robots, even if they ARE being controlled by humans. so i think i'm missing you're point, because either way, its Iron Man and War Machine destroying a bunch of unmanned robots.

i just don't get how having humans remote pilot them would would make it any more "edgy". it sounds more like you're argument is for realism, because you say the military wouldn't use drones that could kill on their own. but remember, this is a CBM...i think it can be forgiven, lol
Paulley
Paulley - 4/26/2010, 7:50 AM
Oh totally i went off on a bit of a tangent with that.. cus that was just me looking at it in realistic fashion.. i was more concerned with the fact they want to show Iron Man and War machine instilled in more action and blasting away but with the restrictions of there rating they are turning to child friendly violence.

im writing another article in a minute to help clear some stuff up.
canadianturd
canadianturd - 4/26/2010, 11:31 AM
@ BlackAirs87 - I wasn't disagreeing with anything you said.
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 4/26/2010, 12:37 PM
Well it does have that crappy ULTIMATE FURY in it instead of the real deal!

So i'll give ya that lol! : P
breakUbatman
breakUbatman - 5/1/2010, 1:52 PM
Though Tony and Rhodey may not kill people there is enough going on, without revealing too much Whiplash does some killing and theres one kill that is emphasised by the sound effects.

I dont think demon will ever be touched but Stark does get wasted at some point in the movie.

It would be pointless to have all those robots piloted by humans, Iron Man tchnology isnt dime a dozen thats why all armor revolves around Tony
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