Hello! It’s RedHood13 here with another Editorial. In the past few days the topic of race has been big on this site. With the fire igniting articles created by Doxx and Virileman then the audition tape for Iris West by Abigail Wake, an African-American Actress. For this editorial there will be 3 people’s input. Red, Hood, and 13. Your job is too decide who you’re in line with and tell me in the comments. Why am I having these views shown? Because it’s easier to make a verdict on your opinion when you’re presented with all sides. I’ll tell you know I’m in line with 13 more than anybody, but to find out what I stand for you have to read below.
Why Race DOES and DOESN'T Matter
1. “Stay True to the Source Material!”
“Would You Like the Source Material?”
Red’s Argument:
When we read comics not only read words, but we see pictures. That’s what makes a comic book a comic book. These pictures are planted in our brains and stick with us for a long time. When we see Captain America (Steve Rogers) on the page we see a costume that consists of Red, White, and Blue. We see an American man with blonde hair and blue eyes that is 6 feet 2 inches. We don’t see a man in a costume of Green, Black, and Orange. We don’t see a British man with brown hair and brown eyes that is 5 feet 3 inches. We naturally want to see these images played out on the big screen. One Comic Book Movie that did that very well was
Watchmen. It is renowned for being an exact adaptation from the comics to the screen.
We as fans want to see our favorite heroes, villains, and anti-heroes on the big screen just as they were in the comics.
Hood’s Argument:
Yes, it would be awesome to see the pages of the best story arcs come to life on the big screen. But is it necessary? About
474.61 million dollars were spent on comics in North America last year. At least
1,161,232,797 dollars were spent on comic book movies in North America last year. That means that the amount of comics sold in North America is less than 41% then the amount of tickets sold on comic book movies last year, in only North America.
My point is that us as comic fans are only a small percent of the people that watch these films every year. These studios are out to make money first and foremost. They do what is best for the movie, not what would please the majority of the fans. You want to stick to the source material, well let’s stick to the source material. What could happen?
Your beloved
Justice League movie could not have Superman & Batman in it more than a little cameo. See in the Justice League’s first appearance Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern (Hal Jordan), and Flash (Barry Allen) all get a distress call from Aquaman warning them about Starro. Superman and Batman get the call, but ignore it to deal with their own problems. You would love to see Superman and Batman amongst the rest of the team, but you might not. You’d also probably love to see them fight Darkseid, Brainiac, Vandal Savage, or the White Martians right? Well Starro was there first villain in the comics so shouldn’t he be there first villain in the movies? 2 hours of Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter & Flash fighting a giant Starfish with an eye. All this could happen if we stuck with the source material.
The next
Batman solo film or
Batman vs Superman has the right to make Batman carry around a gun and kill people. See in the original comics Batman did carry around a gun and killed people, but Bob Kane’s editor, Whitney Ellsworth, told him to take the guns out. Then Bob Kane wrote a 2 page piece called “Legend: The Bat Man and How He Came to Be” explaining Bruce Wayne’s origin. This was his way of making the removal of guns in his book due to plot reasons and not his editor telling him to. So don’t go off on a rant if Batman shoots Lex Luthor in the upcoming Man of Steel sequel. They were just sticking with the source material.
You don’t want any of this to happen. You’d say “THIS ISN’T THE SOURCE MATERIAL” if Batman shot a man in a movie, when it isn’t. Sticking with the source material isn’t always the best thing to do.
13’s Argument:
Honestly both sides are right in some ways. Of course we want to see the pages on screen, but we can’t always get that. Yes there are some things that are essential parts of characters and teams now, but things weren’t always the like that. Even though it is in the source material that’s not an excuse for changing things. I believe that the source material should be the basis of your movie, but if you want to branch out in ways that benefit the movie, you most certainly can and should.
2. “Keeping Characters Race Can Help the Movies”
“Race Doesn’t Define Most Characters”
Red’s Argument:
When you change a white character to a black character no one bats an eye, except the true comic book fans like me. But when you you make a black character white everyone goes crazy.
To avoid these rants from both sides of the equation let’s not cause the rants at all. Yes sometimes the casting of a big actor benefits the movie even if they are a different race then the character from the source material the film is based off of. But every time that happens true fans and racists, not the same thing, go off on rants that get very annoying after a while (like this one now). These rants build up negative talk for the movie before it comes out which results in less people going to see it. To avoid less money coming in, casting directors should stick to actors the same race as the character from the comic so that fans aren’t upset.
Calling me racist for this is a fallacy called
Ad Hominem. Ad Hominem is when a claim or argument is negated based on an irrelevant fact about the person stating the claim or argument.
Thanks nizkor.org!
I am not racist, but a fan of comic book that seemingly wants to see his favorite characters on the big screen, like they look on the small page.
Hood’s Argument:
It doesn’t matter what actor plays them as long as they stick to the character’s true self. Who is Kingpin? A crime lord who practically runs the entire New York City underworld. Is that the character description for Michael Clarke Duncan’s Kingpin in the Daredevil film? Yes it is. Who is Perry White? The editor of the Daily Planet. He hands out hard work, but is a very loveable person. Did Laurence Fishburne play that character in Man of Steel? Yes he did. These characters aren’t defined by race. Let’s take a look at some other characters that aren’t defined by race.
I chose to do
Lex Luthor because there have been rumors that the actors Idris Elba and Denzel Washington are up for the role. I’d love to see either of them paly Lex. Lex Luthor is one of the most gifted beings alive, whose hatred of "interfering aliens" pushes him down the path of a sociopath. Known for his "ends justifies the means" approach to life, his single-minded and brutal focus puts him at odds with Superman and other DC Comics heroes. Lex Luthor is arguably DC Comic's most iconic villain. What about that means he has to be white. That he is one of the most gifted beings alive? That he is an iconic villain? If so then that is a real sign of racism, since you are saying that no one but whites can be very gifted, and that iconic characters must be white. Not only would Idris and Denzel be great in the role, they’d bring in a whole audience of people that wouldn’t see the movie otherwise. Idris Elba and Denzel Washington are considered amongst black woman two of the finest men in the world. My mom only went to see Thor with me because of Idris Elba, even though he was in it for a total time of 5-10 minutes. Lex Luthor isn’t defined by race.
Recently Michael B. Jordan was casted as the Human Torch in the upcoming Fantastic Four reboot. Michael B. Jordan was nominated for 10 awards because of his performance as Oscar in
Fruitvale Station. He has already won 5 of those awards and there is a possibility he can win 2 more. There is a lot of talk about him being nominated for an Oscar, but we won’t find that out until the 16th of this month. Michael B. Jordan will do an excellent job as Johnny Storm. Let’s look at the character of the Human Torch to see if he is defined by race. Johnny Storm is a member of the Fantastic Four and brother of Sue Richards. Due to an accident caused by Cosmic Radiation in space, he can manipulate fire, turn his entire body into fire and fly. The one thing questionable about Johnny Storm being black is if Sue will be black as well? Many fans have wanted Sue to be white (one of them is adopted I guess). Some fans have wanted Sue to be black alongside her brother. Whichever they choose, Human Torch is not defined by race.
13’s Argument: Yes some characters are not defined by race, but there are some who are.
Captain America is a character that should remain white. Why? Because in WW2 Captain America was the face of the American Allied Forces. Back then when segregation was legal and blacks were seen as the inferior race, a black man couldn’t be the face of America . If you want a black Cap then get Isaiah Bradley. You might say “Well they could say that segregation was outlawed before WW2 in that world, so Cap could be black” or another drastic change that would be an even bigger departure from the comics then the race change itself.
Black Panther is a character that should remain black. Why? Black Panther is the ruler of Wakanda. Wakanda is an ancient nation on the continent of Africa. It is technologically superior to most developed nations and rich in natural resources, particularly the rare metal vibranium. Wakanda has always been more advanced than other countries. Every time invaders have come to Wakanda, they have easily defeated them with their superior technology. They have defeated other African tribes, European settlers (the ones that conquered every other African country), and even the Nazis. They killed them all but one of the invaders from each party. That lucky one has to go back to their country and deliver the message to stay out. This is why Black Panther has to remain black. Whites only live in Africa, because they have moved there or they conquered the country years ago. No one conquered Wakanda and They don’t except outsiders.
It all depends on the character’s personality, background, characteristics, and goals when it comes to changing a characters race.
3. “You Change More Than Just One Character. You Change an Entire MYTHOS!”
“Bigger Changes Have Been Made.”
Red’s Thought’s
When you change a characters race you change an entire mythos. Not only does that character have to change, but his family has to change, his surroundings might have to change as well. If you made Bruce Wayne Hispanic he wouldn’t be rich. Wayne Enterprises foundations began in the 17th century. Back then barely any Hispanics were in the United States maybe even none. Even if you tried to make his parents start Wayne Ent. it would still make no sense. Wayne Ent. would never be as big as it is if they did that. If they were white or Hispanic. “Well maybe he became rich on his own!” Is a typical response I can see someone commenting. To that I say you just changed an entire mythos which is pointless just because you want to cast one actor or want to diversify the movie. Bruce Wayne did not have the time to become a millionaire. The majority of his life he was training to become Batman. Then when he came back to Gotham he started fighting crime right away. He never had the time to become a billionaire on his own. And if Bruce’s parents weren’t billionaire’s they might have never ended up being killed.
If you made Luke Cage white you change not just a mythos, but you negate his entire reason for existing. Luke Cage Cage was the first African American Marvel superhero to star in an eponymous comic book series. Black Panther and Falcon had appeared before he did, but they didn’t get their own comics till after him. He was a reflection of the times. He came right off the screen as the comics’ version of Blaxploitation. And yes now he doesn’t scream “Sweet Christmas!” on every page and say “Jive” in every panel, but by making him white there is no reason for him even being a character.
Hood’s Thought’s:
People always talk about race changes as if they were the biggest thing to happen to any character when bigger changes have been made to other comic book characters. The Dark Knight Trilogy is the most critically acclaimed CBM trilogy of all time. These are quality movies. They set the bar higher for CBM’s and no CBM has set the bar higher as a film. Christopher Nolan and crew made drastic changes to many characters and no one cared. Why? Because the movie ended up being better!
Imagine Heath Ledger’s character being shown in a tuxedo with a black cape and a red bowl on his head at the beginning of the movie. Followed by him falling in to a vat of chemicals and coming out with white skin and green hair. It doesn’t fit. Some of the smallest changes to the Joker were the most powerful. When you look at the Joker’s face paint chipping off it adds even more of an effect. You see that under this makeup he is still a human, and you are horrified that a human can be this psychopathic and evil. R’as Al Ghul is Arab, but an Irishman played him. Yes a few fans were upset, but no one said Liam Neeson was bad in this role after Batman Begins. R’as Al Ghul didn’t train Bruce Wayne on his road to becoming Batman in the comics, but it worked in the film. It was a very smart decision. Giving Batman a powerful villain to fight that he has a connection to gives the story even more depth.
The Mandarin is a Chinese war lord with magical powers. The Mandarin was played by Ben Kingsley. An English man who was born to Indian parents. Then they took it even further by making him a middle eastern terrorist. I was excited for this Mandarin. Then in the movie they took the change even FURTHER by making Mandarin an actor playing a role so that Aldrich Killian could start trouble. This is much bigger than any race change in CBM history! They not only changed the race of the character, but they then changed the character as well. They could’ve easily made him a terrorist. Closing the door that was left open in Iron Man (2008), but they didn’t.
13’s Thought’s:
I think that there is a certain line you shouldn’t cross when changing the race or anything about a character. I personally would’ve loved to see the Mandarin as a terrorist. Imagine Aldrich Killian being the Mandarin’s right hand man. Aldrich makes extremis for the Ten Rings so that no other army could stop them. Iron Man has to. That movie would’ve been amazing! But then they made the Mandarin a cover up for Aldrich Killian. I didn’t like that, but I have gotten over it. I still hope that one day we’ll see a better depiction of the Mandarin.
When characters like Heimdall and Kingpin were played by black actors, their characters weren’t changed so much that it didn’t seem like the character anymore. These are perfect examples of times when changes to characters didn’t cross the line.
4. “Just Get a Different Character”
“Diversity Is A Benefit To A Movie”
Red’s Thought’s:
There was a rumor that WB was looking to make the Justice League like the United Nations. Superman would represent the entire world (being an immigrant from another planet), Batman would represent the United States, Wonder Woman would represent Amazon (
a reason why an Israeli is playing her), and Flash to be played by a Hispanic or Latino actor. To this I say…what?
There’s no point in doing this. Changing a characters race just to make the movie more diverse is stupid! Just use another character of a different race than the others. If they are making a Justice League movie, there is no doubt that Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman will appear. If we look at the characters there are 3 different races. Kryptonian, Caucasian, and Amazonian. If we look at the actors there are three different countries represented. Britain, America, Israel. That’s 3 of the 7 characters. Flash is Caucasian and from America. We can use John Stewart as Green Lantern, giving us an African-American character. Aquaman is Atlantean. Martian Manhunter is (surprisingly) a Martian, who has disguised himself as white and black, but most recently black. That’s two whites, 2 blacks (with Martian Manhunter), an Amazon, a Kryptonian, and an Atlantean. That’s a pretty diverse JL to me.
There is no solid reasoning for changing a character’s race for the sake of diversity. The MCU isn’t very diverse. With their only non-white main heroes being War Machine, Nick Fury, and Falcon. They are introducing Luke Cage in his own Netflix show and there is a good chance Black Panther will be introduced in Phase 3 and possibly Avengers: Age of Ultron, so they are doing pretty good.
I have nothing against diversity, but that shouldn’t be a comic book movie’s main focus. A CBM’s main focus should be taking characters and stories from the page to the big screen in a faithful adaption that would please the fans.
Hood’s Response:
Diversity can not only make a movie look fresh and more relatable, considering we see people of different race every day, but with the right actors it could bring in entire audiences that wouldn’t see the movie in the first place.
Jamie Foxx and Idris Elba are both successful, award winning black actors that are well known and liked amongst the black community and other cultures. Yes it might sound a little racy, but they are very good at drawing in people of their color. Ever since Idris Elba starred in a Tyler Perry film and Jamie Foxx dressed up as Wanda on in living color, these two have brought in black audiences time and time again. The Amazing Spider Man 2 has Jamie Foxx starring as the main villain, and the Thor movies have Idris Elba playing the supporting role of Heimdall. Jamie Foxx looks great as Electro in the upcoming Spider-Man sequel and could draw in more crowds being that his career is at its peak. Idris Elba has expressed that he’d be willing to play characters like John Stewart, and has been rumored to be up for the role of Lex Luthor. If he stars as any of these characters and he is used repeatedly in the marketing, he could draw in even more of a crowd to the movie.
13’s Thoughts:
Sometimes movies are “White washed”. If the producers of the movie feel like the movie needs to be diverse they should first try and see if they could fit in any characters that are of different races. If they can’t due to plot reasons, over crowdedness, or anything else; they should change a minor characters race or just leave the characters alone.
Now it’s your turn. Who’s side are
YOU on. Do you agree with
Red and say that CBM’s should keep the race of the character? Do you agree with
Hood a firm believer that race shouldn’t matter? Or are you alongside
13 and have mixed views on the topic. Or are you even more unique and may like some of each person’s points? Tell me in the comments. Any harmful and personal comments will be taken down. As long as you are reasonable or explain your position your comment will live long and prosper. Till next time…