Why I Don’t Want a Spider-Man 4 Movie

Why I Don’t Want a Spider-Man 4 Movie

Why the risk of holding out hope is too much to ask of me.

Editorial Opinion
By multipurposeponi - Nov 10, 2009 10:11 AM EST
Filed Under: Spider-Man

Unlike most opinions I’ve read on this site, I don’t hold any of the Spider-Man movies in high regard. I’ve felt this way even before the abomination known as Spider-Man 3 plagued the silver screen. I can honestly say I’ve completely lost interest in the franchise. Though all three of the Spider-Man movies have had high points, the low points vastly overpower them. I haven’t had to think about how disappointing these movies were to me for the past few years; but with Spider-Man 4 in its developmental stages, these thoughts have come to light anew. I don’t want to go into a long winded rant, so I will try my best to break my opinions down to cover each movie separately.

Spider-Man: First and foremost, Tobey Maguire does not know how to portray Peter Parker. Even his rendition of Peter in high school missed the mark. Tobey tried so hard to come across as meek and nerdy it was awkward to watch. It was a classic case of overacting. For some reason he decided to keep this shtick up even after Parker’s transformation into Spider-Man. Not once did I get the feeling he was a boy genius, just a nerdy kid with superpowers. Gone was Spider-Man’s witty repertoire. It was replaced with shaky one- liners in a tone lacking any confidence. Once I saw Kristen Dunst as Mary Jane Watson, I started to lose all my expectations for the movie as a whole. Was this really the best person they could find to fit the part? It’s not like she’s a phenomenal actress to begin with, but her looks are nothing to write home about. MJ’s boisterous, vivacious persona was substituted for a lonely, downtrodden one.

Enter William Dafoe as Normal Osborn; perfect casting in my opinion. After watching him grimace while perched on a piece of lab equipment, I knew this would be the redeeming quality of the movie. They found an actor with the right poise, swagger and personality. Even his twisted facial expressions were picture perfect for a live action Green Goblin. And then they cover him up with a metal suit. The split-personality library scene showed a scarier Green Goblin than all the Power Ranger suit scenes combined.

Spider-Man 2:Few sequels are better than the first movie they’re based off of, and this isn’t one of them. Alfred Molina, one of the best actors of our generation, portrayed a Doctor Octavius that I’ve never seen before in the comics. Cool, confident and not in control of his actions; that doesn’t sound like Doc Ock to me. Raimi had us believe that Doc Ock isn’t a bad guy; his evil arms made him do bad things. What was the point? We have scenes that show him looting, fighting; kidnapping Aunt May and MJ, only to have him realize he’s ‘not a monster’ after a one minute speech from Spidey? What a cop out. What happened to the evil mastermind Doc Ock that eventually forms the Sinister Six? And if he’s not really dead at the end, is he going to come back as a good guy? To top it off, it seems that having metal smart-arms fused to your body causes you to develop superhuman strength. Not even a solid haymaker from Spidey can knock this guy out. We all know Spidey pulls his punches against street thugs, but that's not the case here.

Besides the horrible dynamic between our hero and villain, we were graced with another sad rendition of MJ that couldn’t stop whining about Peter even though she’d ‘moved on’. Harry Osborn forgets how distraught he is over his father’s death one minute, and turns into an alcoholic over it the next. And the worst part, to me, we see Peter Parker that’s failing in school? Really? Super genius Parker can’t keep up with regular college students. Get the f*ck out of here, Raimi. Then, only two years after the last movie ended he’s overwhelmed by being Spider-Man and. . . quits. Even to go as far as munching on a hot dog while some bad guys run past him. If the last movie made me think Peter Parker was a whiner, this one makes me feel he’s a wuss.

Spider-Man 3:I really don’t even know where to start. I guess the worst part for me would be that Gwen Stacey has now been reverted to a cameo. Yep, that’s right; the same Gwen Stacey that showed Peter Parker the limitations and consequences of his powers in the comics has been turned into a one dimensional ‘hot girl’ with the sole purpose making MJ jealous. If that wasn’t hard enough to stomach, now we find out Uncle Ben’s real killer wasn’t they guy we’ve thought it was for 40 years.

The rest of my gripes are probably the same as the rest of yours. Since they don’t need explanations, I’ll just list them:

- A Peter Parker that’s full of himself
- A crybaby MJ, yet again
- ‘New’ Goblin Harry Osborn that is plagued with selective amnesia
- Emo Sandman that doesn’t want to hurt anybody . . . except that he constantly does
- Eddie Brock, the Peter Parker wannabe
- Venom, the Spider-Man wannabe
- A convoluted plot
- A song and dance routine
- A ‘cool’ Peter Parker with mascara and greasy hair

If that wasn’t enough, I had to hear Raimi pass the buck to the studio once he realized that fans were disappointed. Is the studio at fault? Of course, but that doesn’t give Raimi a free pass because he’s the one that put it all together.

So far, Raimi has given us the Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Sandman, Venom and the 'New' Goblin as Spidey's villains. Out of those 5, he's wanted us to sympathize with four of them and has portrayed them to be good guys that just do bad things. Whatever happened to villains being inherently evil? Why do they need to be pure of heart for the audience to relate to them? And why does he feel the need to unnecessarily tie them all into Peter's life? They don't on both accounts.

After three disappointing movies, I still felt that there was hope for Spider-Man 4. We all know how to learn from our mistakes. It wouldn’t be too hard to brush past the last three attempts and start making quality Spidey flicks. And contrary to the popular vote, I don't want to see the Lizard OR Kraven in the next movie. That's not what this franchise needs right now, they need to tie up the loose ends that they've already put on film. How hard would it be, really? Leave MJ out of Peter's life except as a sideline friend. Have Gwen as the main love interest. Bring Norman back as the the Green Goblin (sans metal suit); have him KILL Gwen and get away at the end. End the movie with Connors becoming Lizard. With a plot outline like that, I would give Raimi the benefit of the doubt one more time.

That’s what I thought until I heard the latest rumor: Black Cat to be in Spider-Man 4. All of Raimi’s ‘back to basics’ speeches have now gone out the window. It’s obvious to me that Raimi has no idea why Spider-Man has appealed to so many people throughout the years. I’ve tried three times to like these movies, and three times I’ve been let down. Like Raimi’s Spidey, I quit.


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supermarioworldE
supermarioworldE - 11/10/2009, 10:30 AM
I do, in fact, understand where you are coming from, multi. Good article. I also don't want to see a spidey 4.

Part 2 was so overrated

tobey was terribly miscast. Spidey has his whiney times, but overall, he isn't a whiney person. He's a new york genius/joker, with a large share of problems. Dock ock is a mad scientist, and raimi turned him into a sad character, that the audience is supposed to sympathize with. when will we get a spidey villain that is just plain bad?

part 3

why do third movies usually suck? This is why there are very few good trilogies out there

Kirsten was an annoying MJ, and there is way too much wining from evey character on screen

loganoneil
loganoneil - 11/10/2009, 11:09 AM
Multi - FINALLY, someone who agrees with me! I've been SCREAMING most of this for god knows how long - FANTASTIC article! The only thing I might have a problem with was you assessment of Alfred Molina - his take on the Doc Ock character was a refreshing twist and the only DECENT thing about SM2.

I'm surprised you didn't go into more depth with the annoying Kirsten Dunst. Mary Jane is supposed to be this uber-hottie. Kirsten doesn't even rate as 'plain' Jane! You were spot on with both her and McGuire's performances though - any more whining and I'm going to PUKE!
Betty
Betty - 11/10/2009, 11:14 AM
Multi-- Nah, not complaining. It is a well thought out opinion. I agree with everything you have to say except for the "no" to Spider 4. All the Spidey movies have huge problems and at some points change who spiderman is. I heard that Raimi didn't want the web shooters because it wasn't believable for a high school student to make such a thing. Well, Mr. Raimi, they'll believe it if you tell 'em. Plus it's part of Spidey's history that everybody knows. After it all I think the absence of the web shooters was ok. Spidey making his own webs with his body makes him more spidery. Luckily, the webs didn't come out of his ass!

I totally agree that the Black Cat is a bad sign for the next spidey movie regardless of how bad my pants want to see whoever pours herself into that costume. It does kind of sound like it's going to be the same silly party that 3 was. But I'm still glad he's giving it another go. I like Raimi as a filmmaker so I'll give it a chance. If you haven't seen Drag Me to Hell, it is hilarious!

I try to look at CBMs the same way I look at life. There are a lot of things that piss me the [frick] off but I will be a miserable cuss to be around if I let all of them get to me. I save my most visceral anger for the sucky things that stand out the most like, X3, Spiderman 3, Indiana Jones 4, Electra, Catwoman, Wolverine, Watchmen (yikes! Ducks from shoes being thrown), ect...
Betty
Betty - 11/10/2009, 11:15 AM
supermarioworldE-- Do I need to repost my article, "2nd times the charm, 3rds are turds"?

Yeah Kirstin isn't "the Jackpot" MJ is supposed to be. And wine is for drinking I say!

Multi what would you think if we could go back in time and replace Mcguire with Gyllenhall? He looks more like comic book spidey. Or even the guy that played the new goblin, whats his name?
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 11/10/2009, 11:19 AM
@ multi

yeah, not complaining, its your opinion, and you made good arguments. but i have to disagree with a lot of them. like tea said, spidey punches doc ock in the face all the time in the comics, also, we all know that spidey pulls his punches when fighting normal people, otherwise he'd knock their heads into another dimension, lol. and in the comics, sandman isn't just an evil guy. he's a reluctant villain, not for the same reasons, but he is. in fact, the sinister six had to blackmail him to join, and when he resisted doc ock turned him into a glass statue. so he's not COMPLETELY horrible person in the comics. he is, but i wouldn't call him evil.
Betty
Betty - 11/10/2009, 11:21 AM
teabag-- Oh, I thought he got it from Spidey 2099?

Multi-- btw, this is the type of article I live for. This and breasts.
Betty
Betty - 11/10/2009, 11:24 AM
Wow, he's such a forward thinker. lol

btw I thought the casting for sandman was pretty spot on but he also kinda looked like Brock from the comics.
Betty
Betty - 11/10/2009, 11:33 AM
teabag--- AHHH!!!hahahahahahaha! I wish that had sound.
Stumblin
Stumblin - 11/10/2009, 11:56 AM
Teabag that was awesome!

Multi, great article man, and I agree with a lot you've said. Spidey is my favorite character since I was 5 and I've been reading him for the past 21 years. Tobey was never the Parker/Spidey we all grew to love.

Where was the egotistical smart ass responses when Spider-Man is within imminent doom? His Parker was sort of right, except yeah, he never came off as the super intelligent person that he is.


Here's hoping for the best in Spider-Man 4.

At the same time, this is the director's interruption, no this doesn't excuse the monstrosity that was third installment. However, it does grant some personal liberties with the characters, but Rami just did not make the right choices.
Minotauro
Minotauro - 11/10/2009, 12:52 PM
Multi - And you said I was the complainer?..

I don't know that much about the comic relation to the movie, but I'll give it a try..

Look Tobey Maguire does over do it with the sobbing like a little girl. But, who else do you believe has any relation with Peter Parkers nerdy persona.. Only young adults I know who could be casted are Disney kids at best. The Mechanical arms Doc Ock has are attached to his spine and nerves making him less vulnerable to pain.. Losing his intelligent mind, the one who formed the sinister six? The man lost his wife giving him nothing else to live for, making him continually rob and steal to finish his life's work. That's why he was so called "Copped Out" realization from parker.

And to Finish I agree with most parts, sum I'm one-sided. Spider-man 3 was a descent movie in my opinion, even tho Brock/Venom was a failure, But Sandman made that up for me in that movie. So, cheer up because we got now what? Lizard, Mysterio, Black Cat, Carnage???.. Who knows.. ;)
StephenStrange
StephenStrange - 11/10/2009, 1:26 PM
Well said Multi. I can honestly say that I don't disagree with one thing here.

I was never 100% comfortable with Raimi's take on things. He did a lot of things that I wouldn't have done and there was some very poor writing and decision making.
The entire franchise could have been a lot better than it was, and that's a fact.

But I sort of echo Betty's thoughts in that I try not to let the little issues get to me. There are much worse things in the Marvel movie verse than the things you mentioned. Like how they ruined Doom, Galactus, Dark Phoenix. Elektra's magical self propeling, self guided sai. Compared to those things, the [frick] ups in Spider man, as numerous as they are, are relatively minor.
AND in the case of Raimi's Spider - Man there were some little things that were well done. His JJ Jameson was SPOT ON perfect. Brilliantly casted, brilliantly acted.
Aunt May and Uncle Ben? Perfection. Couldn't ask for better. Spider-Man's suit was cool and well played. The look of the webs, the stretchiness and the ways he uses them.. very well done.

So anyway I think the crux of all this ultimately ammounts to is that what we all want is a movie that is at least as good as the book, if not better.
We fans are recreating a standard between ourselves for how these films should be judged, and hopefully someday Hollywood will learn to respect that and use it to guide what they do
Betty
Betty - 11/10/2009, 1:42 PM
Preach on DarthMulder-san.
flames809
flames809 - 11/10/2009, 1:54 PM
i liked the movie but i didint like them was killing eddie brock/venom and harry

poni- i think they should finish what they started and then later on redo the movie with a younger cast and probably different villians and different storys
imnotwearinghockeypants
imnotwearinghockeypants - 11/10/2009, 1:56 PM
All these movies could've been saved if Parker shot the webbing out of his ass.
MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 11/10/2009, 1:59 PM
Nice article dude..I disagree with you! But you explain your opinions very well..I guess Im just not a direct comic translation stickler. Aside from that, I don't think Maguire over acted at all, I think he did a great job, but again, different strokes. Like Tea, I rate Spider man 2 as one of the best CBM's we have seen so far. So it changes stuff from the comics, big deal! Show me a CBM that doesn't and I'll show you a good performance in GI Joe(sorry Lee:) Basically what Im saying is, If you disliked the general feel of the movie(acting, direction, effects, what have you) thats fine, but if you dislike these movies based solely on their deviations from the characters in the comics, then surely you hold that conviction to every CBM out there? I mean, which ones DO you like? You name one, and I'll list just as many deviations from the comic on which its based that you just did in your article. (well, not quite as many in some cases, but I'll give it a go:)
JohnnyKrypton
JohnnyKrypton - 11/10/2009, 2:06 PM
Dead on, Maguire's performance never hit the right note for me but beggars can't be choosers I guess...
droopy1317
droopy1317 - 11/10/2009, 2:13 PM
this article should be shredded, burned and buried. lol. j/K. all i can say is no cb movie has been true. they're all going to have adjustments. but i do agree with the whining but not that it shouldn't be made.
MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 11/10/2009, 2:17 PM
Really? I though Marsters nailed Cyc..a self righteous douche with an over inflated opinion of himself:)..ah no, he was lacking in some ways. But this is the thing. There really is no definitive portrayal of a character from teh comics that has been around for so long. Most of these characters have been around for 20+ years and have gone through many changes, and many interpretations from writer to writer. Granted, there will always be the general things kept that make em tick, their motivations and what have you..their essence as you say, and the movies keep them as far as I can see.. they just give them a movie make over. Everyone likes different aspects of every character. You say you want to see Peter Parker portrayed a certain way..Well, say I don't! Say I really like what Raimi and Maguire did with him! That disagreement over some character traits shouldn't tarnish an entire adaptation for anyone I don't think. Bottom line is, If you don't look at the movies as an alternative take on these characters..like the Ultimates say..your going to keep on being disappointed. You say we have "settled", I say we have gotten some fantastic movies. Tomatoe..Tomato.
lc
lc - 11/10/2009, 2:29 PM
ah but the wacthman had the bule man tho lol thats the only part i woke up for my bad lol.
as for the rest am with yeah!
bladenite78
bladenite78 - 11/10/2009, 2:31 PM
I think if all you do is complain about what they make, refuse to watch it and say how it can be better that its like offering nothing but negative reinforcement to a child. You will never get a perfect representation, ever..its like waiting for the perfect woman, its not going to happen in your lifetime. IMO the best you can hope for is a good movie that widens the character's appeal, which is what CBMs are all about. Its not about selling the character, its about selling the actor, the drama and the story. You want to know why Spiderman is among the greatest CBMs? Because its like one of the top 10 movies of all time in terms of revenue and like it's representation or not it did a hell of a lot better to bring comics to the mainstream than Watchman.
Verdugo
Verdugo - 11/10/2009, 2:31 PM
Good article, even thou I don’t completely agree with you, you have very good points. I must say I love the first Spider-man, the story was interesting, I like the cast, with the exception of MJ, and the special effects were good (back then). The only thing that bothered me was the Green Goblin mask; William Defoe could have made a better goblin without it.

When I first watch the sequel I didn’t like it for the same reasons you don’t, the noble hearted Dock Ok was not my cup of tea, but after I watched it for the second time it grew on me, I ended up loving Alfred Molina’s take on the character. I related to the problems of the other characters too: economical (Peter Parker), frustrated aspirations (MJ), and to have to overcome the loss of your father (Harry Osborne).

There is nothing good I can say about the third part, it was disappointing, Eddie Brock was even a worst miscast than MJ, Uncle Ben’s “real” murder plot was stupid, and the special effects were lame.

To me Rami has made 2 great movies and one really bad one, I wish he had let the franchise rest, but I’m still willing to give him a chance with the next Spider-man installment.
Watchtower31
Watchtower31 - 11/10/2009, 2:33 PM
Dude i totally agree. They shouldnt do a 4th one cause they already [frick]ed up the franchise enough.

They should just reboot it
BillyBlack
BillyBlack - 11/10/2009, 2:38 PM
Poni

I dug the article. It hit a lot of the issues I have with the series. I agree totally that these movies got worse with every installment. I'm not going to rehash everything that's already been said. I will say that Raimi's obsession with giving every villain a redemption storyline is assinine and completely ruined the last two movies for me... well that and the fact that Spiderman 3 was one of the worst movies I've seen, period. Which is why I will no longer support this franchise with my money, or my time. Again, nice job. You speak for many.
Scarface
Scarface - 11/10/2009, 2:40 PM
Well said Multi Willem Defoe was awesome in SM
MJ is horrible in all 3 acting and looks. I did love Alfred Molina in SM2 which I think is the best spidey flick by far. SM3 was just a mess of a movie and what the hell is a new goblin why could Raimi not just put him in the original goblin suit not the metal suit. Raimi could of earned some points back for that.
Tobey just doesn't do it for me either. Raimi should stick to horror/comedy everybody loves evil dead right!
MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 11/10/2009, 2:42 PM
Oh yeah Im not trying to get you to change your opinions of course, Im just debating! Iron Man did a pretty good job..but there are still a lot of differences from the source! They pretty much nailed Stark..which is obviously the most important thing, and why the other things don't seem to matter so much..still, they are there for the nit picking. Just like TDK, which changed just as much if not more than the Spidey movies.
Minotauro
Minotauro - 11/10/2009, 2:46 PM
I think I've been a big influence on Ror!? He's now giving his thoughts on others opinions!! ;D
thegreek
thegreek - 11/10/2009, 2:51 PM
Great Article Multi- I totally agree why the [frick] are all the bad guys to be sympathized with ... [frick] them .. they are the bad guys for a reason ... because they are BAD... End of story... At least in Superman Returns Lex was no one to sympathize with ... ;-)
MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 11/10/2009, 2:52 PM
Iv always given my thoughts on other peoples opinions..isn't that called having a conversation?
JoshWilding
JoshWilding - 11/10/2009, 2:55 PM
Great artcle MULTI - I actually agree with every single word...however, in my opinion the good points in the first two movies outweigh these by a hell of a lot! Despite that the issues you've raised are major ones and I for one have always hated Maguire as Spider-Man! Bret Harrison or Jake Gyllenhall would be much better choices and with McGuire nearing 40 I'd like to see a new, younger actor take over ASAP!

Although I'm desperate for Norman Osborn to return I think that should be saved for the end of the fourth and then the fifth movie so they can keep the focus on a new villain in 4 (hopefully Electro or Scorpion!) But if Osborn does don the suit to become the Green Goblin again then he better wear something a lot better than the crappy costume from the first movie! The comic book version would easily work on the big screen anyway IMO!

Anyway as far as Im concerned Raimi has made two great movies and one crap one - if Spider-Man 4 is no good then its time for his ass to be kicked out the door but I think that he deserves just one more chance...
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 11/10/2009, 2:56 PM
MULTI @ You've got BALLZ man, kudos dude!

And a HI 5, but i cant agree lol, waiting for LIZARD & KRAVEN in SPIDEY 4!!! Hey it might happen! : D

Cool article though dude, and where did it just pop up from??!!
MisterFixit
MisterFixit - 11/10/2009, 2:59 PM
Multi@ ok i could agree whit a lot you have said. but now i want you to admit that Mr. Ditkovich is great! Cmon, you HAD to admit it! Hahahahahahaha
Macksimus
Macksimus - 11/10/2009, 3:05 PM
I thought overall the Spiderman movies were moderately bad. The first one was really good IMO, but yeah, I agree that Tobey's portrayal of Spidey was way off, as was many of the other characters. That has really been my overall problem with the series as far as source material goes, but the problem with these movies goes way beyond source material. They suffer mainly from bad directing, bad story/plots, bad acting, and bad editing. Spiderman 3 pretty much sums all that up into one horrible movie.

...and I completely disagree with bringing Norman back in the 4th movie as the main villain on the grounds that it has been done already and I would rather like to see a new villain grace the screen. I also disagree about the Lizard, but I do agree that Kraven should be kept out. I just don't see how he could carry a movie as the main villain. Obviously, the Lizard couldn't do it alone because he really doesn't have any human qualities while in Lizard form.



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