It’s not even Wednesday, and DC fans have already been hit with some terrible news. Ben Affleck has dropped out of Batman and Forbes have suggested he may not even star. It’s fair to say that the DCEU is once again facing bad press as well as trouble behind the scenes. How much trouble? Well, The Flash is without a director, Black Adam has been put before Shazam, The Batman is without a director and…I don’t think we need to go on.
Meanwhile, many Marvel fans are giddy with glee because...well, why wouldn’t they be? There’s no sign of their cinematic universe failing or faltering. At the moment we have three big comic book movie universes underway.
There’s the MCU which is going from strength to strength. There’s the DCEU that seems to be crumbling underneath the weight of its own potential.
Quietly unnoticed, Fox may well be rising from the ashes. After all, they have had a hit with Deadpool, and if they continue that success with Logan, they may be able to join the big boys. But there’s a problem there.
Logan isn’t the beginning of a franchise, it’s the end. It will be a box office success for sure because people will clamber to see Jackman’s final appearance before he hangs up the claws. Fox still have to sort out the different pieces of their own universe. After all Deadpool and the main X-men, Continuity are separated by roughly thirty years right now. It’s certainly going to be interesting to see where the Fox X-men universe goes after Logan and Deadpool 2. It will be particularly fascinating to find out where New Mutant movie will fit in. Personally, my guess is that Fox is going to slide away from the idea of a cinematic universe and switch back to stand alone Xmen films.
That brings us back to Marvel and DC. I’ve seen a lot of people compare the two so I think it’s interesting to hammer out the facts. Are they on the same level and if they’re not, is there still hope for the latter franchise?
Box Office Comparison
First, let’s get something straight, we can’t compare the Marvel and DC box office directly. For one thing, Marvel started about five years earlier than WB & DC did. Iron man was released in 2008 whereas Man Of Steel was released in 2013. It’s also worth pointing out that at the time of the release of Man of Steel there was no plan for it to be the first point in a cinematic universe. DC were already working backward and trying to play the cards they’d dealt themselves. But back to the box office.
The best way to think about this is a number of movies released. DC have released three movies so far. To put that in perspective that means we can only compare Iron Man, Incredible Hulk and Iron Man 2 with Man Of Steel, Batman V Superman: DOJ and Suicide Squad. Now even adjusting for inflation, every DC film made more than the three Marvel movies. I know a lot of people think this is an unfair comparison. After all, Marvel were using C-list characters that most people in the audience had never heard of. Quite right too, for the most part. Except that back in 2008, there had already been a failed Hulk movie. There had also been a TV show so they knew who he was and it still failed to light the box office on fire. The Spanner in the works is BVS. How can you compare that movie to The Incredible Hulk? How can you compare Suicide Squad to Iron Man 2? It’s getting a little tricky isn’t it, because we all have opinions here. But the fact remains DC is only three movies in and they’ve already made more money than Marvel had at this point. Yes, they’ve taken a different route to get there, but you can’t argue with that fact. It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.
Still, you can’t ignore the other facts here like the small detail that DC had Batman in their second film. They also spent a fortune on all three, and the payoff was not as high as they’d hoped it would be. Marvel, on the other hand, were flying high be the end of Iron Man 2s box office and more than that, they hadn’t changed their plan. Despite the failure of The Incredible Hulk (arguably still a great film) they were on the same path heading towards the big payoff: The Avengers.
Today Marvel is a mammoth box office machine powered by Disney. DC meanwhile while certainly profitable, can’t get to the level the studio clearly wants, and the media expects. More on that a little further down.
Critical Reception And The General Audience
Here’s where things get even more complicated. Iron Man has an RT score of 94 percent. Man Of Steel? Just above 50. I still think of Iron Man as one of the best MCU films, and I know quite a few people who feel the same way. It is after all the one that started the path we’re enjoying today. Iron Man 2 meanwhile received 72 RT compared with Batman V Superman on 27. The good news for DC fans is that the audience score is a lot higher. Interestingly the audience score for Iron Man 2 is paired with it’s RT. So what does this tell us? Well, at the point that the DCU is at right now Marvel was already winning the critics over. Even though reception fell with Iron Man 2, it was back up for the third part of that trilogy. The critical reception for the DCEU is currently sliding downhill.
What about the audience? If you look at the box office, audience’s are still quite happy to go and see a DCEU film. Still, it’s hard to describe general audience reaction to the DCEU as anything above average. That’s around about where the audience score on Rotten tomato stands right now anyway. Whether or not Wonder Woman and Justice League will change that is another matter entirely.
As it stands right now, you’d be hard-pressed to find someone who didn’t like Doctor Strange. Suicide Squad meanwhile? It’s getting more difficult to find someone who would rate that as one of their favorite movies of last year. Does this mean doom for the DCEU? Audience and critical reception won’t be enough to kill it. I know die hard DC fans are going to hate this comparison but look at Transformers? Those films have terrible critical scores, poor audience reception and yet make bank with every release. DCEU could be a franchise that people go and see, but few actually admit to enjoying. I know, it’s not a terribly bright scenario.
Ghosts Of Past Present And Future
The Past For Marvel And The Present For DC
If you look at the DCEU, you’ll see it’s facing a lot of problems. That’s certainly the way it appears. They can’t hold a director!? One, of the stars, might drop out!? There’s Studio Interference and trouble behind the scenes!?
Hang on...haven’t we heard some of these headlines before? It wasn’t too long ago that Marvel was hit by all of these issues. Ant-Man and Thor: The Dark World both had issues with directors. Avengers: Age Of Ultron definitely seemed to have studio interference. My personal favorite though has got to be Thor: The Dark World. Now, there was a film brimming with potential, but what did we get? Even diehard Marvel fans struggle to defend that one:
“At the presentation, we were presented concept art from which it was possible to understand the scenery of the film will fill the space. The film promises to cover not only the Earth and Asgard but also all the nine worlds. The studio hopes that the director Alan Taylor, who has experience creating fantasy series, perfectly cope with the task of building the mythical world in the new movie about the god with the hammer.”
Now, say what you will about Thor 2, but that description doesn’t sound like the final product. Yet, that was certainly what we were promised in 2012. It’s not the only time there’s been a shift in the plan either. Before the first trailer was even released, there were claims Iron Man 3 was going to be dark and gritty akin to the Dark Knight. While the trailer might have promoted that idea, the final product, for better or worse, felt anything but.
Meanwhile, Edgar Wright left the director's chair because his version didn’t fit into the massive plan Marvel had for their already established cinematic universe. Most of us are also aware of the turbulence when Terrence Howard was replaced in Iron man 2, and Edward Norton exited the role of the Hulk. So, losing actors and directors isn’t a new occurrence. What we’re seeing in DC is the growing pains of a young universe that’s trying to catch up. This is one of the many problems of the DCEU, and there are quite a few to consider.
Marvel And DC Today
Today, the MCU needs no introduction. The cast walked onto the Comic-Con Stage with a boom box. As of right now, they have no issues at all. Guardians: Volume 2 looks like tons of fun, Thor 3 has a truly brilliant director (do check out Hunt For The Wilderpeople) and Spiderman: Homecoming has Spiderman and Iron Man. I’d be incredibly surprised if there was any issue with the MCU in box office or reception in 2017 or even 2018.
DC is another matter. We’ve already heard some worrying reports about Wonder Woman and Justice League. As a fan of the first three movies in the DCEU, I’d love to just ignore them. Even if they are ‘true’ I’m probably going to enjoy the next two films. I’m just not sure that the critics or a large portion of the GA are ever going to feel the same. At this point, DCEU fans are like Twilight fans. They like something, they know they like it, so why should they care what other people think? This is one of the theories as to why BVS had no legs. The people who wanted to see it went early and the audience didn’t grow.
As it stands, we know we’re getting at least three more films in the DCEU. These are Wonder Woman, Justice League, and Aquaman. I’m pretty sure we’re going to get Aquaman, I’m just not convinced anymore that anything after that is set in stone. It really does depend on this year. But remember, the DCEU doesn’t have to improve that much for WB to consider it a win. If Wonder Woman gets as much as say, Suicide Squad and Justice League breaks a billion they’ll continue to push forward. If Wonder Woman sinks a little lower than Squad and Justice League gets around 900, they’ll probably still keep going. Now, let’s take a look at the future.
Days Of Future Yet To Come
Don’t worry I’m not going to suggest Marvel is about to start crashing, I do think they have some issues to deal with, though. The first is the Marvel formula that seems to be popping up again and again. Some critics went as far as to say Dr. Strange was a remake of Iron Man. I can certainly see the strengths in that argument. Guy who only cares about himself has an accident, learns new powers and is recruited by a team to protect the world. Hmmm, but the Marvel formula is only an issue if it’s present in every film and it definitely isn’t. There are enough fresh eggs in the basket to ignore the stale ones. Still, I want the MCU to be one of the greatest franchises of all time. I want to show it to my kids one day and sit down and watch all 153 movies. That’s the other problem.
I hope I’m exaggerating, but at this point, the MCU doesn’t show any signs of stopping. I’m sure there are tons of fans thrilled about this and I agree there’s a lot more stories to tell. I’m just not sure the model is infinite. I would like to see them take a break at some point and come back stronger than ever. I don’t want it to get the point where we have one great film, one good film, and one mediocre film.
There’s also the issue with the box office.
-What? You must be joking! Marvel raked in a massive amount of money last year. Yes, it did, but it still underperformed because Civil War was marketed as an Avengers film.
-It had Captain America In the title...
-Watch the trailers again, it was marketing as an Avenger’s film. I don’t care if the final product wasn’t like that, that’s how it was marketed. That’s how the film should have played. It didn’t, it played like the third film in the Cap franchise. Although it was still the biggest film of 2016, I’d just expect the box office to be a tad higher.
Dr. Strange was also marketed using The Avengers to a lesser extent. It’s also the 14th film in a franchise. Basically, that means that fewer people are going to see the solo films than the big team-ups. While this is to be expected it also suggests there’s a gap in how many people are interested in the MCU. I’m certainly curious to see how well Infinity War Plays next year. My guess is it won’t make as much as Star Wars and may make less than the first Avengers movie.
As for DCEU, they’ve already made more mistakes than Marvel did. They overcorrected. They should have let Suicide Squad play however it was going to before the critical lashing of BVS. Bad film or not, at least we would have seen the originally intended product. I would have even given Leto his wish and released it as an R rating.
If there are problems with Wonder Woman and Justice League, they shouldn’t admit defeat. As Forbes have suggested, if the worst happens this year, it’s time to bring down expectations and the budget. Before Man Of Steel was released one CEO in WB suggested it would break a billion. This is the biggest issue with the DCEU right now. They’re expecting it to be massive and it was never going to be. At least, not in the state it was in. Man of Steel, while a great film in my opinion, was never going to play on the level they wanted it to. DC and WB are currently a victim of their own ego and insecurities. We know that like the MCU, there’s a massive plan for the DCEU...or there was. We know this because one of the journalists who spoke to Snyder saw it. We just don’t know whether it was well thought out and whether it’s still in play. I just hope they haven’t killed their darling with Wonder Woman and Justice League.
I would also suggest that they use the talent they have at their disposal. If they want to add humor and fun to the DCEU, Rowling would be the best bet. Yes, you heard me, author JK Rowling. Say what you like about Harry Potter but it keeps the stakes high while still being a lot of fun. A lot of the HP films are also quite dark with death, tragedy and a lot violence. Fantastic Beasts had the same type of fun throughout the film combined with a weird film about child abuse.
As for The Batman, I don’t know why on earth Affleck wanted an original story. Make a version of Under The Red Hood. They teased it in BvS so it makes sense to bring it to life. If Affleck leaves, so be it. Personally, I will be sad to see him go. But it still won’t kill the DCEU.
I’d also suggest they start thinking about having Shazam open a live action universe akin to Young Justice. You could have the kid be recruited by either Robin or Nightwing at the end. With Spiderman, Marvel and Sony are about to open up a Harry Potter esque franchise with young heroes, you can just feel it. I see no reason why DC can’t do the same.
Marvel V DC? Well, as with Snyder’s film, the v is important. It’s not a fight to the death, it’s a difference of perception, it’s a contrast of views. If you want to look at it simplistically: is the MCU in better shape than the DCEU? Yes, it is, and that’s ignoring my personal view and the views of fans. Personally, as you can probably tell, I love both, though perhaps not equally.
Even if we compare where Marvel was after three films they still had better critical reception. And although DC beats them in box office, they were playing with a far better hand. Marvel were building their brand. DC was playing with some characters that were already established for the general audience. Although, as we’ve seen this can be a thorn rather than boost. After all, no one watched Captain America and thought “Yes it’s jolly good, but I wish it had been like that direct to video release. Plus, Chris Evans has nothing on Matt Salinger.
That said, despite those who love schadenfreude*, the DCEU is not dead. If there are problems to deal with, WB and DC have a lot of options. By December, we’ll have a much clearer idea of where the DCEU stands in relation to the MCU. Will it follow in the footsteps of it’s older brother? Or, will it quietly be shown the door? We shall just have to wait and see.
*If you don’t know what schadenfreude is, it’s taking pleasure in someone else’s misery. There plenty of users here who are masters of it. You know who you are!