ECHO Is Disney+'s Second Biggest TV Series In 2024...But It's Still A Long Way From First Place
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ECHO Is Disney+'s Second Biggest TV Series In 2024...But It's Still A Long Way From First Place
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Matchesz
Matchesz - 1/10/2024, 2:09 PM
Kingpin hasnt been in the MCU more than a year and he already got defeated like 4 times. And people in here will still defend what they’re doing. Smh
mountainman
mountainman - 1/10/2024, 2:11 PM
@Matchesz - He’s the new Kang.
marvel72
marvel72 - 1/10/2024, 2:43 PM
@Matchesz - Didn't they claim last week he was like a street level Thanos.
FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 1/10/2024, 2:46 PM
@Matchesz - Villains get defeated, that’s how these things tend to go.
WhateverItTakes
WhateverItTakes - 1/10/2024, 2:53 PM
@marvel72 - street level anus more like
dragon316
dragon316 - 1/10/2024, 3:01 PM
@marvel72 - they sure did
supermanrex
supermanrex - 1/10/2024, 3:04 PM
@Matchesz - how many times has doctor doom been defeated in the comics?? doc ock green goblin whats your point
rkshuttleworth
rkshuttleworth - 1/10/2024, 3:05 PM
@Matchesz - You are watching the wrong thing if you want the bad guys to win.
noahthegrand
noahthegrand - 1/10/2024, 3:08 PM
@Matchesz - I don’t care if he got defeated his characterization in Echo was far better than what we got in Hawkeye. He had depth, pain, and rage and him being defeated by Echo is perfectly fine for me with the relationship they set up. While I would have preferred if he had successfully injured a family member at the end of ep 4 or beginning of ep 5 to raise the stakes more that’s another conversation. His defeat in this wasn’t even a physical one but an emotional one and that works for me since Maya Lopez is the only person other than Vanessa he has a close emotional relationship to.
marvel72
marvel72 - 1/10/2024, 3:16 PM
@FireandBlood - Avengers:Infinity War.
SpiderParker
SpiderParker - 1/10/2024, 3:37 PM
@Matchesz - People were crying when Marvel killed the villains, people are crying when they stay alive but defeated. What are they supposed to do? Make the Hero lose and the Villain win? This is not a Kingpin show, is it? Idk if the show is trash but is this the best excuse?
FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 1/10/2024, 3:50 PM
@marvel72 - And then there’s every other Marvel movie where the villain gets defeated. You understand what an exception to the rule is, right?
FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 1/10/2024, 3:52 PM
@SpiderParker - Kingpin has been defeated in 99% of his appearances on the page but now it’s a problem now? Doesn’t make sense, does it? 😂
The1st
The1st - 1/10/2024, 3:52 PM
@Matchesz - let's hope he never remembers or discovers Parker's Spidey...it's gonna hurt
FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 1/10/2024, 3:53 PM
@supermanrex - I think his point is, which he hasn’t got the balls to say, is that Kingpin shouldn’t be defeated by women. Because they’re women.
The1st
The1st - 1/10/2024, 3:53 PM
@SpiderParker - This
Matchesz
Matchesz - 1/10/2024, 3:55 PM
@SpiderParker - How about oh idk have Kingpin hire an enforcer (another C list villain) who Maya could actually defeat before Kingpin can escape. The girl hero gets to win and show how badass she is and the big boss baddie gets to fight another day. Everyone wins. Instead of you know.. inventing woke powers and emasculating Kingpin even more.
Matchesz
Matchesz - 1/10/2024, 3:58 PM
@FireandBlood - paint me as a misogynists all yall want if it helps you defend this bullshit
FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 1/10/2024, 3:59 PM
@Matchesz - I’m not even defending the show, but what’s your issue with the villain losing if not him losing to a woman? As if the villain doesn’t always lose in these movies/shows. 33 MCU films, and the villain won once.
Vigor
Vigor - 1/10/2024, 4:00 PM
@noahthegrand - this
incredibleTalk
incredibleTalk - 1/10/2024, 4:05 PM
@Matchesz - look who's joined the darkside!
Matchesz
Matchesz - 1/10/2024, 4:14 PM
@FireandBlood - Same issue I had with Kang losing in everything he's in.. if the villain cant show that he's a genuine threat then whats even the point?
Matchesz
Matchesz - 1/10/2024, 4:24 PM
yall are too complacent in seeing the same outcome regurgitated over and over again, it's like living in the matrix
SpiderParker
SpiderParker - 1/10/2024, 4:32 PM
@FireandBlood - People have the strangest issues nowadays as if they are entitled. The one villain that won was mostly cause it was his essentially his movie and the heroes came together in the next one, he still lost. Not even Kingpin really, most villain get beat up every time and mostly want revenge for the previous times.

@Matchesz - Don't you think a villain that loses and comes back for more is terrifying? What if Hitler was back? Would you not shit your pants? Do you seriously think, Kingpin or Kang would come back the same? Does Thor have the same power level in all the movies?
FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 1/10/2024, 4:34 PM
@Matchesz - 99% of villains lose in everything they’re in, what’s your point? You’re acting as if this is something new, it’s not. Loki’s literally lost in everything he’s in, even his own show. Where was the issue then? Acting like Kingpin never got beaten in 99% of his appearances. This is silly.
Matchesz
Matchesz - 1/10/2024, 4:46 PM
@FireandBlood - Bro my point is if 99% of the time the villain loses then what suspense is left, people are as much fans of the villains as the heroes, set up the next show/movie where the hero has learn from their mistake in losing, Kingpins been beaten enough times that he shouldnt even be letting himself become vulnerable, it makes him seem incompentent. In Spiderman TAS he had the whole sinister six as his bodyguards if I remember correctly.

@SpiderParker - I feel that if Hitler never lost he would have been more terrifying, and in seeing him finally taken down after having already invaded all of the allied countries would have had more of an impact
marvel72
marvel72 - 1/10/2024, 4:47 PM
@supermanrex - Green Goblin gets beaten by a super powered Spider-Man.

Look what happened to Black Cat when she ran into Venom in Amazing Spider-Man 300.

Look how it turned out for Black Widow and Elektra at the hands of Bullseye.

Its OK for the villains to win, it makes the rematch so much better because the hero has flaws to over come.

Take Old Man Logan when Mysterio tricked Wolverine into killing all of the X-Men, now that was shocking and it served a purpose.

That sometimes the villain winning is what's needed.
FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 1/10/2024, 4:50 PM
@Matchesz - Bro, you tell me? You’re talking about a version of Kingpin from a Saturday morning cartoon that ALWAYS lost, so again, you tell me. In each arc, movie or season of a show, the villain gets beat. Where was this energy where Daredevil beat Kingpin twice in his show? Or his movie? Just say what you mean. You’re cool with it when DD or Spider-Man beats Kingpin, just Echo or Kate Bishop. Say that, instead of making this a thing that all comic books and their adaptations are guilty and can easily be picked apart for.
Matchesz
Matchesz - 1/10/2024, 4:52 PM
@marvel72 - right, there needs to be a balance, problem is the world is so soft now nobody can take the bad person winning. it'll offend a certain demographic
FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 1/10/2024, 4:52 PM
@Matchesz - Bro, you tell me? You’re talking about a version of Kingpin from a Saturday morning cartoon that ALWAYS lost, so again, you tell me. In each arc, movie or season of a show, the villain gets beat. Where was this energy where Daredevil beat Kingpin twice in his show? Or his movie? Just say what you mean. You’re cool with it when DD or Spider-Man beats Kingpin, just not women like Echo. Own that, instead of trying to make this a thing that all comic books and their adaptations are guilty of, your favourites included.
Matchesz
Matchesz - 1/10/2024, 4:54 PM
@FireandBlood - it took the entirety of what 12-13 episodes of Matt going through literally [frick]ing hell to finally defeat the Kingpin, Echo does it in her first appearance on another characters show, and again here in 5 episodes.....
FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 1/10/2024, 5:14 PM
@Matchesz - Okay, and? He’s a villain. He’s going to get beat, whether it’s in 1 episodes on Spider-Man, 13 on Daredevil or 5 in Echo, it doesn’t matter. He’s getting beaten, because that’s what he was made for; a foil for the hero to overcome and beat. You’ve only got an issue with it, when a woman does it because episode count didn’t matter to you when you brought up a show like Spider-Man where he got his ass beat in 20 mins.
Origame
Origame - 1/10/2024, 5:14 PM
@SpiderParker - literally the most widely praised movie in the mcu, infinity war, ended with the villain winning.

Why are you acting like the only option is to hype up villains that can never succeed?
FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 1/10/2024, 5:18 PM
@Origame - Exception to the rule, and one of the reasons it’s widely praised. Do you think it would have been if villains usually beat the heroes? C’mon. There’s no need for this amount of disingenuousness.
Matchesz
Matchesz - 1/10/2024, 5:20 PM
@FireandBlood - Okay dude, you're the one on here perfectly fine with Super Skrull getting beat by Gaia before ever even meeting the Fantastic Four. They bait you with bad storytelling that ignores the comics and then call you a woman hater when you dont enjoy eating shit
SpiderParker
SpiderParker - 1/10/2024, 5:24 PM
@Matchesz - Wow, that's dark. You really wanted Hitler to win? You should change genre from CBM to Crime.
Origame
Origame - 1/10/2024, 5:33 PM
@FireandBlood - ...so the only option is to do it continuously? Ffs. People were calling Fisk the Thanos of the street level side. Why can't you also make him an exception to the rule? Or at least not have him fight low tier superheroes like Kate bishop and echo.
FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 1/10/2024, 5:37 PM
@Matchesz - I’m not ‘alright’ about anything that went down in Secret Invasion, but your issue with it is Gaia and the fact she’s a woman, and that’s the weird part. I think the entire thing sucked, including the ‘Super Skrull’ Gaia, another Super Skrull, beat, but if Fury figured it out, you’d be cool with it.
FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 1/10/2024, 5:40 PM
@Origame - Who was calling Fisk this? He wasn’t even in Defenders. I don’t see Fisk getting these heroes together.

Fisk’s whole thing is fighting low tier heroes. He’s a low tier villain, that’s why he’s street level. Acting like Kate Bishop isn’t a whole Avenger and the whole idea of Echo shooting Fisk literally came from the page 20 years ago.

WhateverItTakes
WhateverItTakes - 1/10/2024, 6:41 PM
@Origame - tell him he's a prick from me
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