Bill Maher Suggests Success of Superhero Movies Means Stupidity Is On The Rise

Bill Maher Suggests Success of Superhero Movies Means Stupidity Is On The Rise

During his HBO talk show Friday night the comedian questioned the panel on the difference between the highest grossing films adjusted for inflation and the most successful movies today. He then suggested the new founded popularity of superhero movies and fantasy films shows we are now less intelligent. Is he right?

Editorial Opinion
By BeyondtheFuture - Jan 18, 2015 01:01 AM EST
Filed Under: Avengers

Obviously, the short answer is no but I think this deserves a proper rebuttle. No one on the show seemed able to present one. Mr Maher, who I'm a big fan of, highlighted the top twenty-five films, so I'll only be using that list to make my argument. As a fan of comic book movies I'm aware of a slight stigma attached to it. If I talk to my parents about new superhero movies being released I'll be greeted with a little nod or a polite smile but virtually no interaction. My girlfriend, bless her does try to see the appeal and keeps up with the new movies on twitter but has limited interest herself.

So, superhero movies' aren't intelligent? It's not a new idea. Earlier this week a video showed Zach Galifianakis saying comic books are something you eventually just grow out of. I doubt I will but that's beside the point. I'm here to argue that superhero movies, specifically the six present in the top twenty-five highest grossing films are not something just for stupid people. Now unfortunately, some of the films present in that exclusive club do not exactly make this an easy task.



The Avengers (World Wide Gross: $1,518,594,910, 3rd Highest Grossing film of all time)

Starting off with an easy one then and the film with a tease that lasted a decade. Firstly, from a purely technical stand point, "The Avengers" was a monstrous achievement. Building up a film by introducing one hero after another in separate movies up to the year of the big event was unique and inspired. It was a completely new experience and I have my doubts whether it will ever be successfully replicated.

Looking at the film itself, I can't claim that it is deep. It doesn't require multiple viewings to understand. Is there a lot of action? Yes. Big cinematic explosions? Check. Filmed so it looks and feels like a comic book come to life? It certainly does and that is nothing to be knocked. I can only imagine how difficult it was to achieve. The film is shot at different angles so it actually looks like the page of a comic appearing on screen.

The characters are well written and thoughtfully portrayed. Thor and Loki's dynamic is ripped straight from Shakespeare, which is playfully pointed out in the movie. Tony Stark is constantly wrestling with what kind of man he wants to be. Steve Rogers is the character the audience can most relate to as at the heart of it he is dealing with his own short comings as not only a hero but also a human. I could go on but you get the idea. On paper or watched without sound The Avengers may look stupid, but it's actually a film with complex themes that are intertwined in a way only Joss Whedon can pull off.

"The Avengers" is an intelligent movie masquerading as a blockbuster.



Iron Man 3 (World Wide Gross: $1,215,439,994, 6th Highest Grossing film of all time)

I have a confession. I'm not a massive fan of this movie. I do like it, I even own it on Blu-ray, and I've watched it multiple times. It just wouldn't be in my top favourite films. I have my own personal reasons for that but none of them are that it's a dumb movie. Again, on the surface "Iron Man 3" could look fairly straight forward. But it is actually a mixture of statements on what it means to be human and political satire.

Does the film have too many jokes and quips? I'm not sure, what I did notice is that it includes a pretty damn good portrayal of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. When Tony returns from New York he is coming back from a war zone where he very nearly died. In Iron Man 3 he is shown suffering from Insomnia and random anxiety attacks. Downer Jr portrays these mental breakdowns in the way I imagine they would occur and I didn't expect to see this in a superhero movie.

Political satire? I have two words for you. Iron Patriot. For better or worse the appearance of Iron Patriot in the film is Shane Black poking fun at the US government's failings in Afghanistan and Iraq. A big clunk of armour plastered with the American flag and over stuffed with weapons goes around trying to find a terrorist where there isn't one, too subtle?

I would argue "Iron Man 3" is an intelligent movie.



Transformers: Dark of the Moon & Transformers: Age of Extinction (World Wide Gross: $1,123,794,079 & $1,087,404,499, 7th & 10th highest grossing films of all time respectively)

Yes, it's sad but true. Two of the ugliest stepsisters of the comic book movie family are in the top ten highest grossing movies of all time…for now. We can all hope that Avengers: Age of Ultron and Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice knocks them out. Just think if DC and Marvel fans could only all get along, they might never have been there in the first place.

Anyway, I said I would play by the rules and I stand by that. But shockingly there is something clever in these movies, one of them at least. At the beginning of "Age of Extinction," Cage finds Optimus Prime in an old broken down movie theatre. An old guy there says that movies are all remakes, sequels and rubbish these days and Cage takes Optimus home. When he greets his daughter he says: "I'm asking you to look at the junk and see the treasure."

Michael Bay's point is this. Critics are going to hate this movie but it's the type of thing that will save cinema because it can only be enjoyed properly on a big screen. It's a very clever metaphor and not one you would necessarily expect to find in a Transformers Movie. He also has a point because two of them are in the top ten. Well done Mr Bay.

I would say the Transformers movies do have intelligent aspects to them.



The Dark Knight Rises & The Dark Knight (World Wide Gross: $1,084,439,099 & $1,004,558,444 and 11th and 19th highest grossing movies of all time respectively)

Out of the top ten now and it's two of Nolan's "Batman Trilogy". Like them or lump them it's hard to argue these films aren't intelligent or that they don't appeal to intelligent people. Let's start with "The Dark Knight." Even if you ignore the fact that it is well crafted with an Oscar worthy performance from Heath Ledger, it's hard to ignore the social commentaries throughout the entire plot.

The film has numerous points to make on the insanity of terrorists and terrorism, questioning how society would and should react.  The ferry scene triggered a debate on the car ride home almost as heated as the one based around whether or not Cobb was still dreaming.

The Dark Knight Rises while possibly filled with plot holes was packed full with commentary on the state of society at the time the movie was released including but not limited to, the type of social frustration that lead to "Occupy Wall Street."

"The Dark Knight Rises" and "The Dark Knight" are Intelligent films.

***

I have one final point to make about the Transformers movies and another confession. I like them. I'm sorry I do. They're fun and dare I say stupid and they have beautiful people in them. It's called a guilty pleasure like…oh I'm sure you guys can put a few of your own in the comment section. But I think that's where Bill Maher is definitely wrong.

If I watch a movie which isn't necessarily clever that doesn't mean I'm stupid. It just means you don't see the appeal of shutting your brain off for a while which is ironic considering you, Mr Maher, are a self-confessed pot smoker.

Finally, to quote Aaron Sorkin and render this article completely pointless: "Who the hell knows why anyone watches anything."


 

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tonytony
tonytony - 1/18/2015, 4:18 AM
Yes and No. The success of movies like guardians of the galaxy means stupidity is on the rise. This was never an issue when movies like the dark knight were successful and people were asking why it wasnt nominated.

But disney and marvel are determined to reduce superhero films to oddball stupidity not too far from dumb and dumber with movies like guardians and if you are going to do that then you cant complain if someone calls you on it. I said a while ago that the mcu would erode all the credibility of comics built up by nolans batman series. So in that respect i agree with maher
Minty
Minty - 1/18/2015, 4:31 AM
"I would say the Transformers movies do have intelligent aspects to them."

Lmao! Very sneaky ;)

Freaking love this. [frick] Maher, the guy's a tool. CBMs may not be hyper-intelligent artistic wonders, but they're a helluva lot more fun, and (most of the time) incredibly creative to boot.

Thumbed ya.
NovaCorpsFan
NovaCorpsFan - 1/18/2015, 4:41 AM
The very issue with his point is that films are subjective to the personal opinions of every single person who watches them. I dunno if people stipulated that stupidity was on the rise when everyone was going to see westerns in the fifties. I dunno if everyone who went to watch sci-fi movies in the eighties was considered stupid. All I know is, there are trends with every passing decade of cinema and people can either go along with that trend and enjoy the genre that's dominating at the time, or they can just go on watching the other films that come out like Interstellar and Foxcatcher. And therein lies the issue for me, because there are some [frick]ing fantastic movies out there right now that people ignore due to the massive superhero movie trend that's currently dominating the box office.

My point is; it's not exactly right to accuse the over-abundance of a film genre of increasing stupidity when such a thing has been commonplace since the dawn of cinema. Also, I hate Bill Maher.

@tonytony
You must be pretty deluded if you think Nolan's Batman movies really did anything for the comic book movie genre. At the time, he was just following the trend of making the superheroes as real as possible and all he really did was make the Batman movies more like gritty crime dramas than superhero movies. And that's an issue as well, Nolan gets all this praise for making awesome Batman movies when in actuality, they weren't really Batman movies at all! They had Batman and Batman characters in them, but they served as a scapegoat for Nolan to make a trilogy of films that tried too hard to portray this hero as the saviour of a society and how the villains correlate with that. Heath Ledger's Joker was a phenomenal performance and he deserved that Oscar, but I don't consider that to be the Joker. Had he played the Joker, the Joker who is well and truly out of his [frick]ing mind in no reasonable or intelligible way, then there'd have been no doubt that whole film could've won an Oscar. Instead, Nolan morphed the Joker into a character he could use to represent the chaos of society in order to have his interpretation of Batman come along and save the day from what is essentially just a symbol. And Nolan made those movies with that in mind, the idea of Batman being a symbol and all that other jazz, but he didn't have to take that to the next level and make all the villains symbols as well. My main issue with the Nolan trilogy is the fact it tries so hard to be a contemporary film and not a superhero movie, which is what it is. You watch the old Superman movies, the old Batman movies, X-Men, Spider-Man and what have you, they were all fun, light-hearted family movies that absolutely everyone can sit down and enjoy. Anyone can sit down and enjoy Nolan's Batman movies, but they sure as hell weren't superhero movies and I resent the fact that because of what he did, people assume all superhero movies should now strive towards that, or stoop to that level. That's not right. When the genre's very basis and core is about watching something fun that you can really invest in, it's just criminal to take that, warp it to your own vision and completely detach from the norm and unexpectedly give rise to a trilogy of great movies that then had a knock-on effect of making superhero movies dull, gritty, down-to-Earth melodramas trying too hard to be Oscar-worthy films rather than being fun family flicks. Marvel Studios are trying desperately to bring that back and so are DC! Man of Steel was a film that managed to get to the core of Superman yet still be a fun movie!

As far as I'm concerned, Nolan made the Batman movies he wanted to make and although that's perfectly fine and those movies, bar Rises, are great; I think they destroyed the superhero genre for the modern day.
EhMaybeSays
EhMaybeSays - 1/18/2015, 4:51 AM
^Yeah the genre is pretty destroyed lol.
tonytony
tonytony - 1/18/2015, 5:01 AM
@novacorpsfan you must be pretty stupid to not be able to see the credibility that NOlans batman brought to the genre. Without his batman, superhero movies would be going the way of batman and robin movie. Oddly enough i believe this is where marvel is taking the genre. It didnt hurt the genre it made it possible and gave it a level of respect that most people who look down on the genre couldnt ignore. If you cant appreciate that then you can go back and watch transformers and try argue the artistic merits of those type of movies too.

essentially they wanted to make comic book movies which even an 8 year old could watch, which is why you get movies like guardians of the galaxy which is thrash celebrated by preteens and die hard disney fans who have access to the internet. I will say it again there is an element of what maher is saying that is true and movies like guardians underline that.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 1/18/2015, 5:04 AM
I would watch this episode, just to see what he is actually trying to say. I know his show is a debate show, so I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't even expressing his true opinion on CBMs and was just trying to present an argument.

I had a similar talk the other day, when somebody was saying how Star Trek used to be awesome because it wasn't all about action, and now their trying to make it all about action, or they need to bring the action in order for the film to be successful.

In no way do I think that CBMs make anybody stupid, but I think it is true to an extend that with technology, the internet, etc, etc, our attention span and definitely the attention span of the youth of our society has changed drastically. This isn't just because of CBMs, this is because of how quick our society has changed and the amount of media that is presented to our youth.

My niece is 6 and she knows how to use an iPad and uses IPads in school. I mean when I was 6, we couldn't even watch videos or movies on the computer yet. And computers were not mobile. There was no iTunes store, Netflix, Chrome Cast, YouTube, etc, etc....

I think this is the real reason that people make the argument that "stupidity" is on the rise. Because everything is so much easier now with the aid of computers and technology.

But, this is just a natural progression.
tonytony
tonytony - 1/18/2015, 5:06 AM
i mean someone actually suggested they make star trek more like guardians of the galaxy? I think they were saying because the success of guardians shows people dont want intelligent sci-fi, they want it with jokes and stupidity. WTF?
BeyondtheFuture
BeyondtheFuture - 1/18/2015, 5:14 AM
@Drkinsolving He was basically saying that every movie in the top 25 highest grossing films are fantasy, superhero, animated,wizards,talking animals etc. He singled out superheroes and said movies with these characters aren't substantive and it's a worrying trend saying "Does this mean we're getting stupider" to which Katherine Bigelow (The Hurt Locker) agreed. The whole episode was really interesting though :)
BeyondtheFuture
BeyondtheFuture - 1/18/2015, 5:15 AM
sorry every movie with the exception of Titanic which is the only one in the top 25 about "real" people. :)
BeyondtheFuture
BeyondtheFuture - 1/18/2015, 5:19 AM
@Drunknukem So do I! I really wish we had a show like his in the UK.It's true free speech and it is something seriously lacking in Britain.
NovaCorpsFan
NovaCorpsFan - 1/18/2015, 5:21 AM
@tonytony
You've missed my point. The whole point of a superhero movie is to be a fun movie for everyone to watch and you do realise that children are traditionally the target audience of these films, right? Since the first Superman film, superhero movies have been for kids. You seem convinced that the genre should be designed for mature audiences, and I have no idea how or even why anyone would hold that view. They're films where you're supposed to suspend disbelief and just go with what's happening. Making them as realistic as Nolan tried to wasn't good for the genre of superhero movies because it essentially ruined it. If you believe that Nolan's movies heightened the genre, you're entitled to that, but from my perception of it, he ruined it for every other superhero movie because now people, like yourself, think the Nolan formula is the ideal formula for superhero movies.
Coming back to my point of film being subjective, you're proving that point by expressing your opinions of Guardians of the Galaxy! Most people, including me, love that movie and for the record, I'm the one using proper punctuation here, so who's the more worse for the ware?

I'll also never argue the artistic merits of a Transformers film because they're absolutely terrible.

And you say superhero movies would be going the way of Batman and Robin if we hadn't had Nolan's Batman movies. Even though Iron Man was a pretty great flick and managed to do all the things Nolan couldn't in regards maintaining the superhero genre without straying into the dark grittiness of Nolan's Batman movies. The Incredible Hulk, same deal. In fact, is there even a point in arguing this case? The Nolan films are their own deal and are so different from everything Marvel are doing right now, there's virtually no reason whatsoever to try and say one is dominant or one is better because for all intents and purposes, they're a completely different batch of movies. Nolan didn't make a superhero trilogy. He didn't, he made a trilogy with a well-known superhero in it. I love the first two, I agree with your ideology of them being good movies, but they didn't help the superhero movie genre, they made people think that all superhero movies had to be like them despite decades worth of superhero movies that didn't go near that territory.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 1/18/2015, 5:22 AM
@BeyondtheFuture

Thanks man, I'll check it out. You don't have a link to it by chance do you?

@tonytony

NovaCorpsFan is not stupid. He made a sound argument, and made a lot of sense. Nolan's films were good for what they were but there could never be a Superman in Nolan's movies, actually, there would never even be anything supernatural. Thank god Rises was the last of Nolan's Batman films and we have moved on....

Nolan's Batman movies are over, and we can finally get a more comic influenced Batman and DCCU.

Also if you really get into the politics used in The Dark Knight Rises and the trilogy, it makes absolutely no sense at all.
DukeAcureds
DukeAcureds - 1/18/2015, 5:22 AM
If you look at the history of the event movie, from Star Wars onwards, you will see a lot of purile movies. That is until the 21st century CBM boom.
Whereas in the '90s we had Independence Day, The Fifth Element, Demolition Man and Speed, now we have Captain America: The Winter Soldier, The Dark Knight, X-Men: Days of Future Past and Watchmen.
If anything, the popularity of the CBM is testament to an increasingly cultured and intelligent society.
We have moved past the uninformed and close-minded luddite way of thinking. We can see, now, that calling any medium or genre "stupid" is not only regressive, but full of ridiculous irony.
BeyondtheFuture
BeyondtheFuture - 1/18/2015, 5:33 AM
@Drkinsolving

this should work. If you're interested in the bit I'm talking about it's 39 mins in here's the link:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/104438591771066569073/albums/6105258443166287265/6105258447315885938?pid=6105258447315885938&oid=104438591771066569073
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 1/18/2015, 5:35 AM
@BeyondtheFuture

Nice, thanks!! I'll definitely check it out.
tokens
tokens - 1/18/2015, 7:25 AM
Dear Bill Maher,

you know... I used to be a fan of yours.
I watched your show, your stand up, and I thought
"hey this guy gets it"
I was one of those hipster douches who thinks
he knows how everything oughtta be solved and who
makes fun of people who don't believe in science.
but as ive gotten older, ive realized, nobody knows shit,
neither do I, neither do you, and you talk way too much and act like you really do know everything.
so stahp. just because you don't like something doesn't mean it is the wrong thing. u know what entertainment is stop acting like all u watch is foreign language "Toronto film festival" films.
go suck a f*ck.



love,
cinnamon
LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 1/18/2015, 7:29 AM
Bill Maher is [frick]ing stupid.
CombatWombat
CombatWombat - 1/18/2015, 9:07 AM
Bill Maher is an asshole … he's the liberal version of Rush Limbaugh
CombatWombat
CombatWombat - 1/18/2015, 9:07 AM
if they both drove off a cliff together Thelma and Louise style, I would not shed a single tear
Lhornbk
Lhornbk - 1/18/2015, 9:40 AM
If anything shows that we're getting dumber as a society, it's that Bill Maher has a show that is popular enough to not be cancelled.
SauronsBANE
SauronsBANE - 1/18/2015, 10:26 AM
"An old guy there says that movies are all remakes, sequels and rubbish these days and Cage takes Optimus home."

And Transformers is all 3 of those things. Perhaps not as clever a metaphor as it would like you to think.

I'm sorry, I more or less agreed with everything you wrote here...until you tried to say that Transformers has some "intelligent" aspects to it or that it will "save cinema". I mean...Christ.
SauronsBANE
SauronsBANE - 1/18/2015, 10:27 AM
But yeah, like GliderMan said, I enjoyed everything you said about Iron Man 3 as well. I'm even more impressed that you say you didn't like it all that much, but you can still recognize those aspects of it.

So maybe I shouldn't let your point about Transformers ruin the rest of this piece for me haha.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 1/18/2015, 11:00 AM
So, I just watched the video and the segment, was only about 1 minute long, not even, and he was obviously joking around the whole time....

It made for a good article though, haha
thekabsin
thekabsin - 1/18/2015, 11:28 AM
Mass interest in sci fi movies with a little bit of humor, heart, and fantasy added doesn't say anything about intelligence. Generations have grown up with these characters. My father bought me the comics, now I bring my son to see the movies and get him comics. These movies took off in a time when remakes were happening left and right and studios were afraid to invest in projects that they thought wouldn't have an audience. All the studios wanted was a sure thing with a built in audience, now they're all scrambling for comic properties. Comic book movies influenced studios to start making more sci fi films in general, I believe. While these movies aren't sophisticated art they still have social commentary and show you the gray areas of good and evil. They are basic messages that are as old as time. We can all relate, men, women, and children of all ages. I am not sure if the stupidity on the rise comment really applies here
thekabsin
thekabsin - 1/18/2015, 11:30 AM
I am a big fan of Bill Maher and I'm sure he's seen a few comic book movies when the sun goes down and he lights up
thekabsin
thekabsin - 1/18/2015, 11:36 AM
I all so agree with the belief that movies of this caliber will save cinema. They are a spectacle. Going to these movies is like going to the fireworks. You know what you're going to get and it isn't life altering, just something sparkly to behold. The studios don't want to spend thirty million and make fifty million. They want to spend two hundred million and make a billion. Crazy world we live in as far as movies are concerned. Add the piracy and every other avenue of releasing these movies and you can see that the whole landscape is evolving rapidly. The theaters need these huge movies.
batz11
batz11 - 1/18/2015, 11:45 AM
Read first comment, leaves thread...
TucksFrom2015
TucksFrom2015 - 1/18/2015, 11:50 AM
good-looking article. but no teaser pic? yeesh..
BatmanHeisenberg
BatmanHeisenberg - 1/18/2015, 12:12 PM
I love a Bill Maher, but he is so wrong here. Good write up dude!
BatmanHeisenberg
BatmanHeisenberg - 1/18/2015, 12:12 PM
*not a
JoeMomma29
JoeMomma29 - 1/18/2015, 12:37 PM
You have to take Bill M. with a big grain of salt at times. He says some things are true but in a very rough way. There is some truth to what he is saying but not to the extreme as some should take it.

He is one opinion out of many so his job is done because he love getting reactions from people and he has done so by this editorial being posted.

The bigger joke is how someone is trying to pull of the opinion that IM3 was something smart etc......
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